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Amerikon wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So no love with the new forts...

pretre wrote:Gah. Vengeance Weapon Battery - 75 points for an emplaced Punisher that can't be fired by a model. +10 for a Battle Cannon. I was hoping for more.

What's the justification for "can't be fired by a model"? It looks like the rules say that it has an automated fire mode, which seems to imply that it has a non-automated fire mode, right?

pretre wrote:It is an impassable building. Emplaced weapons can only be fired by occupants of the building.

With no entry points.
If it did, I could have still stuck an Ethereal in there to fire the gun.

I'm actually tempted to not open it, and trade it in for something else now...

I'd say they got some potential, except not for IG (who has the most obvious icongraphy)
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

Don't know about others though, these are nice, but not "omgwtfbbq" as some suspected. most armies CAN use them, but also can not to.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

Except they shoot at the closest target. Which really doesn't help a lot.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

This is good for nids.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I'd say they got some potential, except not for IG (who has the most obvious icongraphy)
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

Don't know about others though, these are nice, but not "omgwtfbbq" as some suspected. most armies CAN use them, but also can not to.

My problem is, for the Vengeance Weapons Battery that I preordered, it's 75-85pts for 6-7 Str5 hits (that can be completely nullified by having something AV12 closer than other enemy units), or a not entirely reliable battle cannon, that can't really hide anything behind.

So it goes from 32-52 Str5 rending shots for Retributors (with 1-2 Batteries), or 64-112 for 2 Ethereals + 2 squads of Firewarriors, to 40 shots, that'll put out 12-14 hits a turn on average, for 150pts.

The sad part is, the emplacement is modeled with an access point, which is why I preordered it in the first place.

well, I am extremely disappointed with these rules at this point.

I had hunch to wait before pre-ordering, but I let myself be swayed and purchased on.

Considering there is absolutely no formations for sisters in the Apocalypse book I was hoping this would be our golden ticket.

Ill either trade it in at that point or build a second Leviathan and use those parts to get it to throw a ton of dices at my opponents..

Man this sucks, I was totally willing to drop some cash on this kits, but thankfully waited for the rules to leak..

Nevermind. Makes me laugh that GW manage to stop me from opening my wallet when genuinely like to make some hobby purchases..

D

Not one Sister-specific formation, asset or thing in the new Apocalypse.

feth you, GW.

Apocalypse launch day today at my local games workshop.

3 of us on one side and 5 on the other side.

I entered on the second turn to allow some stuff to die in order to clear room on the board.

Brought 2000 points of sisters which basically did almost nothing. Only 3 Exorcists and 2 Immolators even partook in the fight.

My Leviathan, Stormlord and 2 Baneblades however accounted for 7 Blood Thirsters, 20ish terminators and quite a lot of marines over turn 2 and 3.

We won in the end by 1 points... first blood... and how did we get it? Ilic Nightspear infiltrating in a booby trapped building and blowing himself up.

D weapons are incredibly powerful against... everything. I find them near cheese and would not play them unless it's on a model that costs 1000 points or more.

Voldrak wrote:
Apocalypse launch day today at my local games workshop.

3 of us on one side and 5 on the other side.

I entered on the second turn to allow some stuff to die in order to clear room on the board.

Brought 2000 points of sisters which basically did almost nothing. Only 3 Exorcists and 2 Immolators even partook in the fight.

My Leviathan, Stormlord and 2 Baneblades however accounted for 7 Blood Thirsters, 20ish terminators and quite a lot of marines over turn 2 and 3.
U
We won in the end by 1 points... first blood... and how did we get it? Ilic Nightspear infiltrating in a booby trapped building and blowing himself up.

D weapons are incredibly powerful against... everything. I find them near cheese and would not play them unless it's on a model that costs 1000 points or more.

D Weapons are prety cheap too though 120pts for a Str D, AP2 Hellstorm weapon...

 curran12 wrote:
Not one Sister-specific formation, asset or thing in the new Apocalypse.

feth you, GW.

Thus is bad news that worries me greatly. I felt quite comfortable after seeing the pages dedicated to OB in the big 6th ed rulebook,but zero coverage in the biggest 40kexpansion does leave my worried about my first and favourite army. Let's hope my fears aren't justified.

D

I'm holding out hope to see something in the pandorax supplement

Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

Exorcism Squadron: 3+ exorcists, gains +1 missile shot per tank. I thus three tanks are 3d6+3 at a given target. Also 36" Fearless bubble for SOB only.

Fiendish Penance: 3+ PE engines, gain It Will Not Die, 12" movement, ignores cover.

Hymn on High: St Celestine, 3+ Seraphim, Cannoness, Command Squad. The command squad provides a 24" no mishap bubble and the cannoness can mark a target, all Seraphim count as two linked. Celestines Fearless becomes a 12" bubble and makes Seraphim 5++.

The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

I'm thinking if hijacking the Necron Transcended C'Tan as a Transcended Living Saint.

 TheKbob wrote:
Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

Exorcism Squadron: 3+ exorcists, gains +1 missile shot per tank. I thus three tanks are 3d6+3 at a given target. Also 36" Fearless bubble for SOB only.

Fiendish Penance: 3+ PE engines, gain It Will Not Die, 12" movement, ignores cover.

Hymn on High: St Celestine, 3+ Seraphim, Cannoness, Command Squad. The command squad provides a 24" no mishap bubble and the cannoness can mark a target, all Seraphim count as two linked. Celestines Fearless becomes a 12" bubble and makes Seraphim 5++.

I was thinking about this, while talking to my friend who plays SoB and griping about the lack of formations. Thought I'd check this thread before starting one over in the homebrew rules section.

My thought for the exorcists was to use the apoc. barrage template. Basically let the squad fire together as a S8, AP1, Heavy X, apoc barrage. shot, where X is the number of tanks in the squadron.

And there needs to be something to boost faith points. Either a strategic asset, or every SoB apoc formation granting an extra d6, or something to help with the lack of scaling.

Other formations that need to exists:
Some sort of HQ formation
Something that utilizes the hellstorm flamer template (immolator squad?)
A -real- decent of angels formation (Celestine+seraphim)

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

Ah, I didn't realise that. At least there's something then. I plan to puck up the Apoc book at somepoint, but not in a huge rush to see it.

D

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

any new or interesting info? thanks

 Mr Morden wrote:

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

any new or interesting info? thanks

No, I mean they are included in the rules. Like X thing can be taken by IG, SM or SOB. I don't have the book so can't say on fluff.

I have the book and it looks good overall.
If any of you have questions, fire away, I'll answer best I can.

I'll also run up some sisters formations and such tonight.

Thanks Ovion

Does it actaully mention any SOB fluff - what cool things can they take which are new / Apoocaplyse.

Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

Why - its not related to your army size? you get D6 full stop.

Now a formation that generated more would make sense..........

 Talizvar wrote:
Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

I assume you mean 'too low' kind of insane? A flat D6 just ian't enough for the army past 1500 pts and even it's pushing it. D3 per 500 points would make sense to a certain degree but considering some tournaments run points levels that would be non-divisabe with that system (I'm looking at you 1850), it wouldn't reakly work out anyway.

D

I can't change your mind or your opinions, but this is just flat out wrong.

My opinion is my own...thus not wrong.

Sisters are a lot more than just immo spam (C:WH's build of choice). I've been running a variety of build recently and they have been great. My AV13 spam was hilarious last night.

I don't even run immo spam in my SOB army. The most I've used is 3 for my dominions.The army is boring. Period. One troop choice. Celestians being a shell of their former selves and essentially auto take HQ characters that overshadow a basic canoness. The loss of a jump pack option for a canoness. The chance for GW to make seldom taken units better, but utterly failed. I could go on, but what's the point? While the army has potential to be effective...in doing so it's effectively boring..LOL.

Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

The two that exist previously aren't bad.

Personally, I'd like to see a penitent engine formation, a retributor formation, or a formation that allows repentia to infiltrate. :shrug:

How about 50 repentia blob "Holy Furvor" and they get to run with fleet and assault with scout move. Possibly 5++ invul since they believe so much more?

 evildrcheese wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

I assume you mean 'too low' kind of insane? A flat D6 just ian't enough for the army past 1500 pts and even it's pushing it. D3 per 500 points would make sense to a certain degree but considering some tournaments run points levels that would be non-divisabe with that system (I'm looking at you 1850), it wouldn't reakly work out anyway.D

Are you not able to go above the initial D6 as units die or some of the units add faith points?
I do not play them but thought I knew enough about where some of the points came from.
Obviously not...

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I don't even run immo spam in my SOB army. The most I've used is 3 for my dominions.The army is boring. Period. One troop choice. Celestians being a shell of their former selves and essentially auto take HQ characters that overshadow a basic canoness. The loss of a jump pack option for a canoness. The chance for GW to make seldom taken units better, but utterly failed. I could go on, but what's the point? While the army has potential to be effective...in doing so it's effectively boring..LOL.

We haven't had two troop choices since Codex: Chapter Approved (Redemptionists). Unless you're missing inquisition, in which case you lost nothing since you can ally them in and they were never SoB anyways. As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice. No different than now. The difference now is that we have three effective HQs instead of either Jump-Pack Canoness or cheapest possible palantine.

Keep perspective.

We haven't had two troop choices since Codex: Chapter Approved (Redemptionists). Unless you're missing inquisition, in which case you lost nothing since you can ally them in and they were never SoB anyways.

You missed my point. One Troops choice STILL. GW had the opportunity to add more and they didn't.

As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice.

Canoness on foot with celestians via a LR was effective as well.

No different than now. The difference now is that we have three effective HQs instead of either Jump-Pack Canoness or cheapest possible palantine.

Sorry, I like making my own HQ characters..not having to be shackled by taking a Special Character just to be effective. If given the choice...I'd rather have a character I can build effectively, vs. the point and click special character who you have to take or overshadows all other choice in the book. The wargear list was sad as feth...in the WD update...one column. No Cloak, no mantle...nothing interesting...but greatly boring.

Keep perspective.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
You missed my point. One Troops choice STILL. GW had the opportunity to add more and they didn't.

Sure, they could have added a lot to the codex. I will totally give you that.

As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice.

Canoness on foot with celestians via a LR was effective as well.

Really? Because I never saw or heard of that build. And the Land Raider was inquisition.

Sorry, I like making my own HQ characters..not having to be shackled by taking a Special Character just to be effective. If given the choice...I'd rather have a character I can build effectively, vs. the point and click special character who you have to take or overshadows all other choice in the book. The wargear list was sad as feth...in the WD update...one column. No Cloak, no mantle...nothing interesting...but greatly boring.

Fair enough. You like to build. I think that the Jump Pack builds were boring because they were point and click and the same canoness for everyone. YMMV.

Either way, I agree that they could have done more to the book. No one is arguing that the WD codex is the best they could have done. It is far from boring, however. I've played through a lot of editions of SOB and, for me, this is the most fun and most variety since Codex Chapter Approved.

Well, they limited the army to 1 viable build, but at least they made it a fun and rather effective one