Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Two cannonesses? I get teased for bringing one.

As you should.

Amerikon wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
I think I might go with 20 woman BSSs once I've maxed out my Celestians.

Maxed out Celestians? /twitch

Okay, I'll bite, what are you using your Celestians for?

Shandara had it right. I was being a little snarky. I was going for the SoB equivalent of "when hell freezes over".

Now, lets not be too hasty.
I am sure somewhere, somebody has won a game thanks to celestians.
Somehow.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Now, lets not be too hasty.
I am sure somewhere, somebody has won a game thanks to celestians.
Somehow.

I had grots kill a chaos lord once. Doesn't mean I expect to have it happen again.

 pretre wrote:
I run them one of three ways:
- 5 Doms, 2 Flamers (optional Combi) in TL-MM Immo
- 10 Doms, 2 Flamers, 2 Melta (optional Combi) in Rhino
- 10 Doms, 2 Flamers, 2 Melta (optional Combi) in Repressor

I went to make a list with Doms in an Immo (having run them 10 strong in a rhino for a while) and I forgot how expensive the freakin' Immolator is...

It's around 170 for 5 ladies, whereas you can fully kit out a 10 strong squad with a simulacrum for ~230. 80 points for an AV11 MM just does not seem remotely good these days...

I was initially thinking of running 5 ladies with Celestine, to get Celestine across the table all the faster with their scout move, but now I am strongly reconsidering just running another 10 strong unit and letting Celey foot slog it solo.

I've wondered about the advantage of the Immo over the Rhino. You lose 4 seats, but gain 3 HP and a heavy flamer. The cost of the TL-MM seems a bit more iffy in the trade.

CleansingFire wrote:
I've wondered about the advantage of the Immo over the Rhino. You lose 4 seats, but gain 3 HP and a heavy flamer. The cost of the TL-MM seems a bit more iffy in the trade.

It depends on what you need. If you need to transport a squad of ten sisters, then you have to take a rhino. Cheap and haul 10 people. Maybe a little self repair action.
Immolators only carry 6 sisters and has either a TL heavy flammer, multi melta or heavy bolters. The normal sister squad can't go below 10 but Domminions can. Give em melta guns and run them up to the enemy's armor and watch hilarity ensue.

Yeah, it only works for transporting Celestians, Doms, Rets, or the Command Squad. I've been using them to run up and screen while the BSS slogs forward to the objectives.

Immolators are a little weird now. The TL-HF version used to be the bread and butter of a lot of Sisters armies. But since they robbed us of its ability to move 12" and shoot it's basically a TL-HF Razorback, and when was the last time you saw one of those?

The HB version is just a joke. We get the honor of paying a 65pts for what should be a 40pt vehicle. Yeah, re-roll to wound is nice but it's not even close to 25pts nice.

The TL-MM version is pretty much what we're stuck with. It's not bad, but it is pricey. Dominions need a ride and if you're taking a small squad, this is a no-brainer. The scout ability means that your MM will get to jack something before the tank gets popped.

For 5pts less Marines get TL Assault Cannons. I'd probably take that if I could.

I don't like Immo's anymore, for the price of TL-MM Immolator you can get Repressor. I think it's only viable transport vehicle at the moment for sisters.

meh_ wrote:
I don't like Immo's anymore, for the price of TL-MM Immolator you can get Repressor. I think it's only viable transport vehicle at the moment for sisters.

I disagree. I am not saying Immolators are better than Repressors. But, for how I use them, I find the Imm's to be what I need.

I usually run 3 Dominion squads (only because my seraphim still need painted and put on their bases). I either run 3 squads of 5 with 2 MGs and a combi-plasma with TL-MM. Or I run two of those with 10 girls in a rhino/repressor (if FW is allowed).

The reason I like the TLMM is that it has a greater threat radius than the meltaguns. Both get 12" in the scout move. Both get 6" from the movement phase so we have 18" base plus:

Meltaguns - 6" disembark, 6" melta range gives us a total threat radius of 30" with double dice, 36" overall
Immolators get one shot (guaranteed twin linked) with a 12" melta range (30") but a 42" overall range.

So, right off the bat, I like the TL-MM Immolator because it takes away more board space that is "safe" on turn 1. This can have a very unnerving effect on your opponent while they are deploying. They may actually end up deploying key vehicles out of range just to keep them alive turn 1, allowing you to focus on other things that are in range.

Also, given that my faith in the Emperor is horrid, my dominions rarely seem to pass their acts of faith turn one. Immolators, while lowering my chance of guaranteeing something is dead (i.e. with 4 meltaguns), give me more options to kill different things. Plus, I ALWAYS run searchlights (which a rhino / repressor should do as well). So when it is night fighting, they shoot first (usually within 12" so no cover save bonus) and then light it up. This allows follow up shots from my exorcist which most opponents thought were "out of range" because of night fighting.

As for cost, yes the Immolator is more expensive than a rhino, but it has the chance to do so much more damage. But it is only 10 points more expensive than a repressor. And, if you are taking a repressor, than you are taking 10 girls and 4 special weapons. This puts the squad in the 220 point range instead of the 170-180 point range for a 5 girl squad. I am not saying one is better than the other. They just have different roles. I like to run my 10 girl squad with 4 flamers. They bat clean up and torch what's left after my melta squads pop people's rides. If you are going 2nd, I like to go over my army in advance. I make it very clear what my squads can do (as most people are not familiar with SoB). I make sure they are aware of all the special abilities so they don't feel like I am pulling something out of nowhere later. If I am going 2nd, I usually point to the 10 girls squad with flamers when I stress "and they can outflank as well." It tends to make your opponent not want to deploy on the sides anymore. And anything that disrupts what my opponents wants to do is usually a good thing.

Just my two cents.

P.S. One other thing to consider if you run the rhino / repressor variants. Add the hunter killer missile. It lets them join in on the fun turn 1. Most of the time, they are only moving 6" so they can stay with the Immolators and not get isolated. Its 10 points that nobody ever takes, but it does add one more str 8 ap 3 shot.

I can see the advamtages of both, it's coming out as a point heavy unit either way. Does anyone utilise the infiltrate shinanigans for Doms in an Immo or Rhino? If you can infiltrate 6" jump out and melt something it can be a potentially useful string to your bow. Does mean your coming in later though..

I think I'm leaning towards a full squad with 4 meltas in a rhino with a scrim imperialus - really need the AoF to go off and the extra melta although may serm like overkill will hopefully allow them to be a threat for longer and gives redundency when your target has a cover save (ala Tau disruption pods).

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I can see the advamtages of both, it's coming out as a point heavy unit either way. Does anyone utilise the infiltrate shinanigans for Doms in an Immo or Rhino? If you can infiltrate 6" jump out and melt something it can be a potentially useful string to your bow. Does mean your coming in later though..

D

They don't have infiltrate. They have scout. So, you get a 6" redeployment on foot or a 12" if mechanized. Or, you can choose to outflank.

Just a clarification.

Yeah I meant outflank not infiltrate. I'm blaming the heat, we're not used to it here in England.

So, outflanking with doms, yey or nay?

D

Depends on the opponent's deployment/army. Going second I often outflank instead of scout.

So went to a local tourney this past weekend (about 20 people attended). My first 40k tourney (i've only been playing 40k for about 2 months... still kinda new and haven't played against a lot of armies yet) it was a 2k with set terrain and basically out of the book scenarios. I'll post a bat rep in the bat rep section of the forum when I get around to putting vassal maps together. I felt that the list I brought fit together pretty nicely. Here's the list I went with:

Celestine
BSS 2x flamers, combi plasma, rhino w lights
BSS 2x flamers, combi plasma, rhino w lights

5 doms, 2x melta, combi melta, rhino w lights
7 seraphim 2x h.flamers, sup with power sword
7 seraphim 2x h.flamers

5 Rets, 4x h.bolters
Exorcist
Exorcist

Allies
Coteaz
3 plasma cannon servitors, 3 plasma henchmen, 1 psyker, 2 hot-shot las gun henchmen, 3 crusaders (axe)
4 DCA’s (axe/maul), 4 crusaders (axe) in a rhino
dreadknight with heavy incinerator, sword and teleport gadget


Played against a mechanized IG in the first round, a deamon lead by a great unclean on in the second round, then a space wolf player in the third round.

Ended up winning the tourney.

war wrote:
Played against a mechanized IG in the first round, a deamon lead by a great unclean on in the second round, then a space wolf player in the third round.

Ended up winning the tourney.

Bet that surprised some folks. Good job!

Re: Repressors. The AV13 is ridiculously good. I'm running an AV spam list and it just is annoying for your opponent to disembark anything.

That is very similar to a list I plan on fielding at a tourny next month. I am breaking down and bringing in Coteaz and crew for some GK fun. It looks like a pretty mean list that most people would not see coming.

 Green is Best! wrote:
That is very similar to a list I plan on fielding at a tourny next month. I am breaking down and bringing in Coteaz and crew for some GK fun. It looks like a pretty mean list that most people would not see coming.

Jeremy V took Sisters and Coteaz to Nova and got third, iirc. He basically pioneered it. It is a good list, although you look to be missing a bastion.

I was going with a list of

St. C
2 BSS squads
3 Dominion squads in Imm (2 MG and combi-plasma)
3 Exorists
ADL w/ quad gun
Coteaz
6 acolytes (3 plasma, 3 hot shots) in razorback
3 MM servitors (with coteaz on the gun)
Vindacare Assassin

I would run the bastion, but the one I have is painted for Night Lords, not my SoB. So, my heresy will only allow me to go so far.

All my forts are neutral painted.

Coteaz is a necessary evil for me. I'd rather not have anything from the Grey Knights book, but i'm doing an inquisition theme and I wanted some henchmen. The dreadknight is pretty much what I wish the penitent engines were....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I tried running assassins (vindicare and callidus) and I wasn't all that impressed. The problem I had with the Vindicare was that his rifle is a 'heavy' weapon so if you want to move then you better be within 12" of your target or you'll miss out on that wonderful BS. Given, they're the best tank busters in the game (4d6+3 rending is crazy armor pen with AP 1) but you only get 6 shots at most in any game so you need to make them count. Also they only have 2 wounds and really only cover to keep them alive. My experience with them was that they got shot up far to quickly.

The Callidus was a different story. I like the flamer at S8 AP1 that rolls against leadership instead of toughness, but the deepstrike thing opens up all sorts of problems with interceptor weapons on the field. I only tried her twice, but she died far to quickly to make any difference and I felt I wasted the points I could have spent on a BSS.

Really?
I LOVE the vindicares, they are the main reason I almost went with GK (went tau in the end)

If a supplement that lets you spam assassins show up, I would build an army instantly. probably some assassin team, backed by "tenth company" style infantry.

You can't use Look Out Sir! to pass off a wound from the Vindicare, right?

He's not part of a unit, no.

Correct.

 evildrcheese wrote:
Okay, so despite my best efforts in trying to only use models that I already own until GW give us some plastic, I'm gonna spend a little money so I can run Doms. I currently run 2 Seraphim squads at the mo, but want to switch them out for some Doms.

So how's best to run them? There seems two schools of though on the matter: 10 doms, with 4 meltas in rhino or 6 doms, with 2 meltas in MM immo.

I'll run through the pros cons I see quickly.

Either way you get a nice scout move to get you closer to the enemy 10doms gives more redundency as you can take more melta and have extra bodies to soak up wound. Downsides are you've got a shorter range, especially if you want that 2D6 goodness.

Smaller squad you're stillgetting the scout move, less special weapin shots, less wound sponge but you get a TL MM, which may be in range T1 after you've moved.

So what does everyone else do?

D

Currently, I'm running my Doms as:

5 Doms, 2 x Melta, Combi-Melta in a TL-MM Immo.

I've gotten good mileage out of my TL-MM Immos. They also provide decent (not good or great, but still decent) AA option in a pinch. I really should decorate the one that managed to take down that Helldrake in one shot...

People (online people that is.... maybe its just one person with lots of online names and lots of time to type in many different forums...) seem to whine a lot about flyers and how hard they are to shoot down. I haven't faced a cron-air list or anything like that but I've had an awful lot of success with doms and plasma that are twin linked. Given, it's not as good as a skyfire battery, but do sisters happen to fall into a weird niche where flyers are more vulnerable because of all the twinlink/reroll 1's ect? Is twin link that rare in the other armies codex?

war wrote:
People (online people that is.... maybe its just one person with lots of online names and lots of time to type in many different forums...) seem to whine a lot about flyers and how hard they are to shoot down. I haven't faced a cron-air list or anything like that but I've had an awful lot of success with doms and plasma that are twin linked. Given, it's not as good as a skyfire battery, but do sisters happen to fall into a weird niche where flyers are more vulnerable because of all the twinlink/reroll 1's ect? Is twin link that rare in the other armies codex?

Well for most SM varieties, TL weapons come on Razorbacks, Land Raiders, and with Vulcan for C:SM. With the change to 6th, I haven't seen as many MSU Razorback SM lists of any variety really. Land Raider see some play, but generally not the versions with TL Lascannons. Vulcan would probably be the most common way of TL weapons for C:SM. Oh and I guess some variety of Dreadnaughts, but I've seen them less in 6th too. Psyflemen Dreads still see some play and would be an alright AA choice. But, all variety of SM also now have access to flyers themselves or just ally with IG for Vendettas for a much better AA option. SoB also have the option of IG allies. We also have FW options, assuming FW is accepted/allowed in your area. Personally, I don't make targeting flyers my first priority with any of my shooting really, but sometimes one has nothing better to shoot at so one might as well take the chance.

war wrote:
People (online people that is.... maybe its just one person with lots of online names and lots of time to type in many different forums...) seem to whine a lot about flyers and how hard they are to shoot down. I haven't faced a cron-air list or anything like that but I've had an awful lot of success with doms and plasma that are twin linked. Given, it's not as good as a skyfire battery, but do sisters happen to fall into a weird niche where flyers are more vulnerable because of all the twinlink/reroll 1's ect? Is twin link that rare in the other armies codex?

With non-skyfire weapons it can be tricky to take aircraft down without weight of fire.
But even then, taking out 1-2 isn't necessarily a massive problem for most armies even without Skyfire (average 30-40 shots to take out an aircraft assuming 4+ to glance).

But when you face down 3-9 planes, it can often be hard.
I mean, they won't have much on the ground, and you can own the field, but they will own the air, and after a few turns all you can really do is hunker down and hope you can outlast the planes / take down enough they have nothing on the board at the end of a turn.

 Shandara wrote:
He's not part of a unit, no.

Sloppy wording on my part. I meant when he shoots someone else and gets to choose who the wound is put on, you can't use LOS! to pass the wound away.

It's in the GK FAQ, you cannot.