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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I just received two copies of Deep Madness, so that's my Nightstalkers all sorted.

Same reason I KS'd that back when, although I'm more interested in actually playing the game now And have my own NS thing in the works ...

Unexpected KOW updates are unexpected! Terror looks great (and HUGEly wide), Fiends look like a solid send-up and pretty reminiscent of what people have been using for them. Also something-something Slaanesh fiends? Shulk isn't so bad, I think it'll play, although knowing the feet are separate it is a bit disappointing they didn't swap them for gribbly weirdness too.

- Salvage

 Azazelx wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
And some of the KS commenters are very unhappy about the half price (time limited preorder) on the rule book

This is the internet and, moreover, Kickstarter. Of course some people are upset about something, but Mantic is a company and KS is a way to fund projects not to massage egos and bend to the wants of a few people with access to a keyboard and some spare time.

And being the internet, other people will carry water for companies all day long, pooling even the most legitimate complaints in with the most egregious outliers of unreasonable.

But is it a legitimate concern?

Looking at what is being complained about - no, it really isn't.

The KS backers are still getting it at a lower price than retail list, and are still getting it before stores.

Complaining that other people are getting the same price break - on a single item - that you got?

For a limited time?

Yes, that's just internet whinging*.

Now, complaining about that Shadow Hulk? That is worth complaining about.

Still, could be worse - they might have used their plastic dragon as the basis**.

Fortunately there are plenty of nasty miniatures to use in it's place - I think I would go with the Shub Niggurath figure from the Reaper Bones line - and Nyarlathotep*** from that same line would also be a good fit, when it comes out - and either is a lot better than sticking a blobby head on a giant's neck....

The Auld Grump - sorry Mantic - it looks like a giant with blobby head and hands added by a first time modeler. I might could do something with the parts, but gluing them to the giant would not one one of them.

* And let's be honest - most people backed the KS for the minis, not the rules. Minis don't care what rules you use them for - and my wife already called dibs on that 'floaty tentacle thing' for her Pathfinder game. ('Floaty tentacle thing' is her words - her actual Vanguard army is going to be Goblins - with none of the figures from Mantic, as far as I know. We have a lot of gobbos.)

** I kind of like the dragon - in spite of it not being a very good model.

***

That's what I will call a Shadow Hulk....

Yeah I hope they dump that idea for the Shadow Hulk and go with something else, it really doesn't work. At least reusing the Dragon had merit, on the basis that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon, no matter who you put in the saddle.

 NTRabbit wrote:
At least reusing the Dragon had merit, on the basis that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon, no matter who you put in the saddle.

- Salvage

It actually looks good!

Hahahahahah yea it isn't half bad Possibly because the worst problem with the dragon is its neck? And properly scaled the shulk head 'fixes' / overwhelms that.

- Salvage

From today's blog post it covers the points cost for the rest of the Abyssals not in the starter list - no idea how much the non common equipment is but they are unlikely to be too many points.

Seductress Command Healing Potion 50
Tormentor Command Blade of Slashing 48
Despoiler Large Heavy Weapon 40 (Heavy Weapon is 3 pts)
Warlock Spellcaster Ophidian Book of Secrets 43
Succubus Warrior 14

and finally an image of the Ice Kin Hunter

Nothern Alliance stuff is great. Main reason I backed the KSer and happy Mantic has managed to deliver stuff that looks as good as the concept art.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Nothern Alliance stuff is great. Main reason I backed the KSer and happy Mantic has managed to deliver stuff that looks as good as the concept art.

Dunno, I'm not fond of that "put it all together" side of the faction. Individually, they look much better.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 NTRabbit wrote:
At least reusing the Dragon had merit, on the basis that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon, no matter who you put in the saddle.

- Salvage

I stand corrected - that is better than using the giant.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 NTRabbit wrote:
At least reusing the Dragon had merit, on the basis that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon, no matter who you put in the saddle.

- Salvage

I stand corrected - that is better than using the giant.

The Auld Grump

It’s better...But two bads don’t make a good....or something like that.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
And some of the KS commenters are very unhappy about the half price (time limited preorder) on the rule book

This is the internet and, moreover, Kickstarter. Of course some people are upset about something, but Mantic is a company and KS is a way to fund projects not to massage egos and bend to the wants of a few people with access to a keyboard and some spare time.

And being the internet, other people will carry water for companies all day long, pooling even the most legitimate complaints in with the most egregious outliers of unreasonable.

But is it a legitimate concern?

Looking at what is being complained about - no, it really isn't.

The KS backers are still getting it at a lower price than retail list, and are still getting it before stores.

Complaining that other people are getting the same price break - on a single item - that you got?

For a limited time?

Yes, that's just internet whinging

Precisely. But also, this being the internet, you can't criticise unwarranted criticism without it being suggested you're some kind of shill.

Unless it's the Dakka Infinity thread.

In which case god help you if you point out a fault.

 Theophony wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 NTRabbit wrote:
At least reusing the Dragon had merit, on the basis that a dragon is a dragon is a dragon, no matter who you put in the saddle.

- Salvage

I stand corrected - that is better than using the giant.

The Auld Grump

It’s better...But two bads don’t make a good....or something like that.

In this case, it kind of does.

The somewhat malformed looking dragon body, with the definitely deformed looking S H head... work okay together.

But, I have Nyarlathotep coming, and already have Shub Niggurath, so I am good for Shadow Hulks.


*EDIT* My other Shadow Hulk - and the one I already have, or... my wife has, anyway....

I love the giant all to pieces, but not a good choice for this model.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

And my good lady wife just suggested using one of the plush Cthulhu dolls as the Shadow Hulk... I am picturing the one with a Santa hat....

The Auld Grump - technically, the stuffed Cthulhus belong to our two year old daughter - but lately she has been spending all her time with the teddy bears we got her from Build-a-Bear during their 'Pay the Child's Age' sales.

@TheAuldGrump: How big is that Shub Niggurath? What size base is your wife using for it?

Bones Shub Niggurath is pretty huge, about as massive as Bones Cthulhu, but with a much wider footprint.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
@TheAuldGrump: How big is that Shub Niggurath? What size base is your wife using for it?

I think she managed to fit it on a 4 inch by 4 inch base, but I'm not sure.

Her primary use is in her Pathfinder/Eberron game.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
@TheAuldGrump: How big is that Shub Niggurath? What size base is your wife using for it?

I think she managed to fit it on a 4 inch by 4 inch base, but I'm not sure.

Her primary use is in her Pathfinder/Eberron game.

The Auld Grump

Thanks. It's something to consider, although I like the looks of Nyarlathotep better.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Bones Shub Niggurath is pretty huge, about as massive as Bones Cthulhu, but with a much wider footprint.

That's pretty big. When I go to the FLGS this weekend, I'll take a close look at Cthulhu with an eye to basing. But its early days yet as KoW:V has not shipped yet.

Bones Cthulhu's built-in base is about 4 inches by 3.25 inches, depending on where you measure since it's not perfectly square or circular. His tail and arms overhang that by a lot though.

 Azazelx wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
And some of the KS commenters are very unhappy about the half price (time limited preorder) on the rule book

This is the internet and, moreover, Kickstarter. Of course some people are upset about something, but Mantic is a company and KS is a way to fund projects not to massage egos and bend to the wants of a few people with access to a keyboard and some spare time.

And being the internet, other people will carry water for companies all day long, pooling even the most legitimate complaints in with the most egregious outliers of unreasonable.

I understand the annoyance but I would rather Mantic give away a million free rulebooks and have a much better chance of people actually playing the game than filing the rulebook on the bookshelf with all the other games that noone plays.

The Vanguard Dwarfs are a February 2019 release along with an equipment deck and some Mercenaries. 1 new warband and per quarter and downloadable cards for existing minis.

 MangoMadness wrote:

I understand the annoyance but I would rather Mantic give away a million free rulebooks and have a much better chance of people actually playing the game than filing the rulebook on the bookshelf with all the other games that noone plays.

As if throwing away rulebooks was guarantee your game would not suffer that fate, really. You know it will end the same, anyway. Too many med/fan skirmish miniature wargames on the market are asking the gamer's attention, and it's really nothing special in itself. The miniatures will end in KoW armies for the few people still playing, and only the KoW players will really try and play it 'cause they are already sold to the cause. Outside of the Mantic fanbase (and UK, to be honest), it's negligible.

 Sarouan wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

I understand the annoyance but I would rather Mantic give away a million free rulebooks and have a much better chance of people actually playing the game than filing the rulebook on the bookshelf with all the other games that noone plays.

As if throwing away rulebooks was guarantee your game would not suffer that fate, really. You know it will end the same, anyway. Too many med/fan skirmish miniature wargames on the market are asking the gamer's attention, and it's really nothing special in itself. The miniatures will end in KoW armies for the few people still playing, and only the KoW players will really try and play it 'cause they are already sold to the cause. Outside of the Mantic fanbase (and UK, to be honest), it's negligible.

In which case it is still not a good reason to whinge that Mantic is selling the books at the same price as the KS....

*EDIT* The best way to get any game played is to go out and run it.

Not doing it as much as I used to - but I used to run games at hobby stores, to keep games alive - mostly Mordheim. (Still my favorite GW game.) But KoW sees play about four times a month - swapping off games for young players with games for older players. (Youngest is ten - she was nine when she began. Sam plays Abyssal Dwarfs, because her father had Chaos Dwarfs.)

Free rules help - but going out and running the game does much, much more.

The Auld Grump - the free rules for Mordheim are still keeping the game going.

The studio paintjob for the Shadowhulk is going to be delayed, because Angel Giraldez's famous pet rabbit Melon ate the head before Angel could paint it

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
In which case it is still not a good reason to whinge that Mantic is selling the books at the same price as the KS....

Wait.. is it the same price as the KS, or cheaper than the KS?

If it's cheaper, than I think it's a legit gripe. If it's the same price, then I got my wires crossed and I'll very openly admit that I was wrong due to misinterpreting the facts. I've got no issue if it's the same price as the KS.

KS didn't even offer just the book, it was bundled with tokens and stuff.

KS pledge $30

Rulebook (KS cover)
D8s
Power Dice
Card tokens

From the store

Rulebook £12.99 $19.99 until the end of October then it’s £24.99
Power dice £9.99 $17.99
Tokens and D8s aren’t available separately

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Not doing it as much as I used to - but I used to run games at hobby stores, to keep games alive - mostly Mordheim. (Still my favorite GW game.) But KoW sees play about four times a month - swapping off games for young players with games for older players. (Youngest is ten - she was nine when she began. Sam plays Abyssal Dwarfs, because her father had Chaos Dwarfs.)

Yes, in UK, Mantic's turf. They're still doing good here. Once you get outside of UK, it quickly fades to nothing. That's the unfortunate truth, no matter how much Ronnie would try to brag otherwise.

Free rules help - but going out and running the game does much, much more.

Good luck competing with the other skirmish med/fan games, then.

The Auld Grump - the free rules for Mordheim are still keeping the game going.

Because Mordheim was made and officially supported by GW at that time. That's the main reason - the other is that there wasn't the same competition on the market like nowadays. You can't compare with Mantic on that matter - they're just not fighting in the same league at all.

 Sarouan wrote:

The Auld Grump - the free rules for Mordheim are still keeping the game going.

Because Mordheim was made and officially supported by GW at that time. That's the main reason - the other is that there wasn't the same competition on the market like nowadays. You can't compare with Mantic on that matter - they're just not fighting in the same league at all.

What manure. GW might have made Mordheim, but like all the late 90's SGs the idea they "supported" it after the first couple of years is sheer farce. They might have left (some of) the model lines up for sale on the website(for a few years) and occasionally published the pseudo-fan rules & sculpts that staff members who loved the game did when they had some time free, but the reason Mordheim lasted all these years is the community. GW's credit begins and ends with having the nouse to hire Tuomas Pirinen and allow the art & studio teams to go nuts with the basic concept of a WHF skirmish game, since then it's been us plebs writing supplements and converting models and running local campaigns, just like all the other first-round SGs, and if we hadn't been slogging down clubs and stores giving up our time to organise and run things for long enough to build up local groups Mordheim would be a fond memory today not a system still being played all over the world.

Also, people forget that GW weren't all that huge back in those days either. They were growing, sure, and were well known, but the idea they had no competitors especially outside the UK is revisionist history, not to mention that the market as a whole was smaller prior to mass internet access, crowd funding, and GW scoring the license to make a tie-in game for the biggest fantasy film franchise in the world. The "supported games" crowd drift around to whatever the new Big Thing is, but whether a game lasts is down to it catching on enough to gain a dedicated fanbase who're willing to put in the effort to make it last, and there's no reason Mantic's stuff can't manage that if it's good.

 Yodhrin wrote:


What manure. GW might have made Mordheim, but like all the late 90's SGs the idea they "supported" it after the first couple of years is sheer farce.

Compare with the number of years and everything Mantic did while "supporting" KoW. GW would still be doing much more than Mantic in that field, because of their sheer size alone - not even talking about the fact they have their own shops advertising solely their products. And yes, for a while, Mordheim products were sold and even played in these stores as well. It was really easy to recruit during these times, and I have no doubt the main reason there are still Mordheim players around is because GW, no matter how little you think they did to support the line, still did what only GW can do. Get my point now ?

 Sarouan wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


Not doing it as much as I used to - but I used to run games at hobby stores, to keep games alive - mostly Mordheim. (Still my favorite GW game.) But KoW sees play about four times a month - swapping off games for young players with games for older players. (Youngest is ten - she was nine when she began. Sam plays Abyssal Dwarfs, because her father had Chaos Dwarfs.)

Yes, in UK, Mantic's turf. They're still doing good here. Once you get outside of UK, it quickly fades to nothing. That's the unfortunate truth, no matter how much Ronnie would try to brag otherwise.

Free rules help - but going out and running the game does much, much more.

Good luck competing with the other skirmish med/fan games, then.

The Auld Grump - the free rules for Mordheim are still keeping the game going.

Because Mordheim was made and officially supported by GW at that time. That's the main reason - the other is that there wasn't the same competition on the market like nowadays. You can't compare with Mantic on that matter - they're just not fighting in the same league at all.

Thirty (very) odd KoW players in local group, which is not UK.

There is a stronger presence than Sigmar was enjoying until last year - now it is about on par.

40K is kicking both their arses - but a few years ago it was doing better than 40K. (Rountree deserves the praise people drop on him.)

Kow is doing better than WARMACHINE, currently. (Privateer messed things up royally for themselves.)

Part of the reason why we have thirty odd players is that we have thirty players - which makes it easier for people to find people to play against.

Having a strong presence makes it easier to continue having a strong presence.

Eight of those thirty odd are between the ages of ten and sixteen. (Crossing over from my Pathfinder game.) Seven own their own armies - or borrow them from parents.

When we started in 2014 there was a total of eight players - we hit the current number last year. Two new kids are interested - we will see if they can armies together. (I allow cardstock armies in the kids game, using standees glued to a properly sized base.)

Locally, KoW is not dead, but is also not dominating the landscape like it was a few years ago. The current group isn't shrinking - but it is no longer growing nearly as fast.

GW is back, and going strong.

Which makes it easier for GW to stay strong.

The Auld Grump