Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don´t think the prices have increased at all. The prices for character models were always around 8-10 pound, so three for 25 in the boosters is not an increase. The Vanguard warband starters have 15 figures for 25 pound, while the faction starters for Deadzone vary from 16 (Rebs) to 29 (Plague) at the same price. The ones with a higher amount of figures feature almost exclusively infantry models though, while the Rebs one has a large Terraton. It´s similar with the Vanguard warbands, which always have two large models (Butchers, Snow Trolls) or two cavalry models (Hellequins).

The resin Dwarfs won´t hit retail until next year, and I seriously doubt that you will get 15 of them in one starter for 25 pound. They will most likely put the three larger ones (or two and an Earth Elemental) in the booster and mix the rest with pvc/hard plastic firgures for the starter. I do hope that they make new pvc/hard plastic models though, like they did for the Basilean Men At Arms and Nuns.

 Sarouan wrote:

Mantic have made some great miniatures in PVC/restic.

And it's always annoying to build them. I know, I have them at home. Some are still in the boxes because I was fed up with the first I built. I don't even bother to make conversions or take time with painting - the material in itself isn't worth it.

That's the real truth, here. Now you can indeed getting used to the material and adapt yourself...but you will never remove the true disadvantages of this material in comparison to others that are available on the market, and that you know Mantic can perfectly use if they choose to do so.

This is all really subjective though.

I've got a pile of metal and resin from Mierce as well some infinity stuff pre their assembly rework a year or so ago and this stuff from Mantic is way easier to assemble then either of those. Some of the metal Jutes from Mierce I'm probably just going to throw in the trash as they're so horrible to put together. That being said I'd still probably put mantic at a 6/10 for assemble ease but PVC/Restic has little to do with it as I'd place Privateer's restic at an 9/10 for assembly. Mantic though likes to do some basic multiparting with their PVC while others don't which is a trade off for easy of assembly.

I'm in the prefer PVC over Resin or metal camp as I actually like to use my miniatures and no matter how much nice the resin looks I prefer durability as that resin fig isn't going to look so pretty once you've re-glued and painted the same part 10 times. I could easily make a similar blanket statment that you can never remove resins disavantages compaired to PVC. It would be true from my perspective but a bad way to win an internet fight.

Please PM me if you are throwing away any Mierce as two of my good friends are huge Mierce collectors - we can find them a better home than the garbage!

 Sarouan wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Vanguard is supposed to operate along the same lines as the games I mentioned, though. The sheer numbers of sets Mantic is planning to sell require a medium that is less costly and time consuming. The boosters you cite as evidence are for extremely rare units, like HQ choices. It's ridiculous to plan on selling the grunts in the same numbers and prices as the one-per-army elites.

You're aware that the dwarf warband is entirely in resin, right ?

This alone invalidates all of your arguments on that matter.

I don't see how. Mantic already sells four HIPS dwarfs kits including command, so these resins are the premium product. They are also obviously a stopgap measure either to test the popularity of dwarfs before committing to PVC or because of an unpredicted surge in dwarf popularity. You are basically arguing that they make resin Death Korps of Krieg, therefore all GW Guard minis should be resin.

You seem to want Mantic to be a boutique miniatures retailer rather than a games manufacturer.

Non sense. You can do both if the will is there. And let's be clear : Mantic games is first a miniature seller. Games are just a tool to sell miniatures. They don't sell games that don't use them, after all - if they were solely a games manufacturer, that's what they would do, but that's not the case.

First of all, they do sell a game that doesn't use miniatures: Rise of the Shadow King the adventure game book. Check it out. It's fantastic.

But really, Mantic sells budget games and board games. They are the Toyota Camry to GW's Porche.

The bulk of Mantic's customers feel differently, as evidenced by the continued success of Mantic's Kickstarters.

The Vanguard Kickstarter didn't really go up before Ronnie came up with his "cheap sales" trick, once again. And ask the backers if they would rather like resin instead of PVC if that was given as a choice - I'm pretty sure the number of guys who would take PVC as their pick wouldn't be that high as you seem to believe.

I think it would be nearly unanimous. I, too, can make assumptions without any support.

But I'm sure you'll be able to tell me about many million dollar Kickstarters for games with resin components that delivered on time to thousands of happy backers.

You and I have had some very different experiences. The PVC used in the last few campaigns has been much clear in cast and easier to work with in my experience. As someone who prefers HIPS, I find the PVC barely more difficult to work with than good quality resin, and better than some other companies' resin. I feel like you are overblowing the disadvantages of restic to fantastic degree, either based on negative early experiences or partisanship on the behalf of other plastic fantasy miniature companies. If PVC/restic were such a huge albatross, we wouldn't be seeing the golden age of big box boardgames on Kickstarter.

I mean, shoot, this stuff blows the pants off of Bones for 28mm humans, and Bones is raking in money blurry hand over blobby fist.

Like I said, you can get used to PVC and work it to have a good result in the end. I'm just saying it's not an ideal and high quality material to work with, because that's not its main use. I'm not overblowing the disadvantages - I'm just stating it as it truly is - a cheap material used to cut costs and clearly not taken for the good of customers.

And I will repeat it again ; it's fine for boardgames, but seeing it used for wargames - which Vanguard is, it's not a boardgame in design - is clearly not meant for the players who are used to build miniatures, convert them and paint them with love and care. That a lot of Mantic players resign themselves to this material so that they can still have "low" prices is one thing, but I believe the "low prices" aren't exactly met with Vanguard nonetheless...so I believe the argument of "keeping it cheap" is kinda lost here, and Mantic is trying to sell its PVC as something with enough value in itself. I'm saying the material in itself isn't good enough for this perceived value.

It's not just meant for grizzled gamers. It's clearly meant to be an introductory product for all gamers.

Besides, the material is much better than you give it credit for. I just assembled the Basilean restics and they were super easy. I was able to scrape mold lines off like HIPS on smooth surfaces, like the back of the cat*, cloaks and the Defender's Idle Hands wings. The only issues were where the mold lines ran through textures and details, and that same issue exists with resin. The minis also took to super glue much faster than resins, with proper guiding tabs that make assembly a snap. While spears will still require attention, none of the limbs or swords were warped. And the details were crisp enough and delicate enough to work as traditional hero minis. If the defender got any blingier, he'd be a high elf prince.


My wife was really inspired by the nuns' pet cougar with the Elton John armor. She made me sing a song and everything.
"Hold me closer, tiny Panther. Count the headless in the vanguard. Wrap me up in steel and livery. Basilearina, you musta seen 'er, chomping on the man."




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further evidence.

I am convinced.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
GW's Porche.

Alfa Romeo. Premium product, looks nice, never works properly

My pledge arrived today. The previous materials discussion has confused me. The resins take superglue, but restic? What sort of glue do I use, plastic cement or superglue?

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
My pledge arrived today. The previous materials discussion has confused me. The resins take superglue, but restic? What sort of glue do I use, plastic cement or superglue?

I've used locktite on all my mantic models - restic, plastic and metal - with no issues.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:
My pledge arrived today. The previous materials discussion has confused me. The resins take superglue, but restic? What sort of glue do I use, plastic cement or superglue?

i used superglue and didn't have any issues

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 domobomb wrote:
Good news for Canadian backers at least; Mantic will ship Canadian orders via Royal Mail.

I am all in right now. Also pledged for a few KoW warbands, MaA sprues and ruins assuming they fund.

Just hope that they stick to that promise and don't decide to do it differently come crunch time.

Well that turned out to be a load of bollocks!

Got a FedEx delivery notice yesterday.

SAD!

Discount retailers for Mantic products from here on out... done with Mantic KS.

Thanks for the replies, folks. Used superglue on some Abyssals. Worked alright. Hot water will be needed for a few parts.

 domobomb wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 domobomb wrote:
Good news for Canadian backers at least; Mantic will ship Canadian orders via Royal Mail.

I am all in right now. Also pledged for a few KoW warbands, MaA sprues and ruins assuming they fund.

Just hope that they stick to that promise and don't decide to do it differently come crunch time.

Well that turned out to be a load of bollocks!

Got a FedEx delivery notice yesterday.

SAD!


Discount retailers for Mantic products from here on out... done with Mantic KS.

PLease no....

That's going to add like $100 to the cost again!!!!

How many people bothered respond and tell Mantic that?

Reading the notice there... it sounds like they were asking for a response, not stating that was what they were going to do.

Kind of the opposite of a promise, at least from what is being quoted there. (I had a girlfriend that used to play 'guess what I am thinking' games like that. My wife, on the other hand, asks questions, and answers questions, and listens to both the answers and the questions. Gods above and below, I love my wife!)

The Auld Grump

I agree, it looks like Mantic was giving the option to people but you should have contacted them and said that's what you wanted.

Yeah many responded to Mantic about that.

I didn't go through and copy everything beyond that. And It's hard to find anything in the comments now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashitaka wrote:



PLease no....

That's going to add like $100 to the cost again!!!!

Yeah it was over $100 fee I paid to FedEx to get my package of Giant Pledge + Some Extras.

Also, in typical Mantic incompetence, they stated the declared value of my package was my pledge value in GBP rather than USD, so I had to pay a conversion fee of 1.7 instead of 1.3. That's 40% extra right there.

Goofs.


Also, for reference: Canada Post/Royal Mail don't charge anything for international packages 90% of the time... On the 10% of packages that they do charge, it's just a $9.99 handling fee after tax.

This is why myself, and MANY others made a big deal during the campaign about not shipping via DHL, UPS, or FedEx to Canada, and that outcry is what prompted Mantic to offer what I quoted in the first place.

Have you contacted Ronnie/Mantic with this and seen what they say?

I never, ever try to communicate with a company through Kickstarter comments, anymore.

The high Noise:Signal ratio prevents meaningful communication.

The Auld Grump - the internet is made of QRM...

I've had some more time to assemble miniatures, so I'll share my thoughts.

For the restics, I found the Nightstalkers warband to be the worst in terms of difficulty cleaning or fitting pieces together. The mold lines on long, narrow claws or through textured areas are not quite as frustrating as the restic minis of yore, but a pretty big bummer in the modern age of PVC minis. However, the Basileans and the Abyss both had crisp details, even faces!, and other than shoulder pads and the occasional bent sword or spear, were about on par with HIPS for cleanup.

The plastic Basilean Men at Arms look great in terms of detail and proportions. Their shoulder pads, helmets and thigh armor have neat filigree that places them above Frostgrave or Runewars in my opinion. They also have crossbows (that look impractical) for a nice change from all stab by guys. However, they are noticeably shorter than the previous MaA plastics, with much stubbier swords, and their poses are much more subdued than their predecessors'. In regards to size and pose they're comparable to (glug) ...they're nearly (gluk) ...they almost look like (hurk) ...historicals. The new arms and heads fit pretty well on the old plastic torsos, though, and the older swords still look great swapped onto the newer arms. With the extra restic heads from the warband, there are lots of opportunities for conversions.

(Mantic also gave the kit six shields for every five guys, so it should be easy to snip out a pair of back wings for the sergeant.)

Bob, I really appreciate your thoughts on the new Men At Arms. Any chance you could post a comparison photo of their size next to the old MAAs? The large stature and great poses of the old ones are something I really came to appreciate.

I now find myself akwardly fending off an impulse to panic buy some of the old ones... After mocking them for years, I've discovered they are really fun for conversions for skirmish games because of their fun poses and because they don't look like historicals.

I guess they are really pushing that giant



Clash of Kings 2019 available for preorder this weekend.

The KoW/Vanguard seminar will be streamed tomorrow on Facebook at 2PM GMT with Ronnie's ramblings at 3PM GMT.

Bob isn't allowed to post his thoughts any more unless it's accompanied by a song!

I haven't gotten mine out of the big box of shame yet, but I'm glad to hear to his praise of them. I know he's a stickler for quality plastics.

 Gallahad wrote:
Bob, I really appreciate your thoughts on the new Men At Arms. Any chance you could post a comparison photo of their size next to the old MAAs? The large stature and great poses of the old ones are something I really came to appreciate.

I now find myself akwardly fending off an impulse to panic buy some of the old ones... After mocking them for years, I've discovered they are really fun for conversions for skirmish games because of their fun poses and because they don't look like historicals.

One of these days I'll post pictures of my old MaA conversions with DA Bolter arms, GCPS las rifle arms (and heads), and other kinds of "instant rogue trader troops" conversions. I don't regret buying them at all.

So, here is a picture. The restics are just a smidge larger, although their heads are much bulkier, which makes them seem much taller. Here you can see a new MaA with and old sword and the one with the narrow base is an unbased old MaA with new arms, head and sword.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Bob isn't allowed to post his thoughts any more unless it's accompanied by a song!

I haven't gotten mine out of the big box of shame yet, but I'm glad to hear to his praise of them. I know he's a stickler for quality plastics.

If my wife insists again, there will be more music.
Anyway, I think I'm more forgiving about plastics than most. I certainly liked the Salamander plastics more than you did.

Second picture: the resin dude is much taller than the plastics, which seem to match the Dreadball Siren pretty well in size and proportions. The resin quality was great. The only place with any noticeable bubbles or holes was on the loin cloth of my palace ogre. However, if there's one place you don't want to see any holes, it's in your ogre's loin cloth.

Thanks Bob. Time to buy the old (bodies) and the new (everything else).

Just so long as poeple know what they are getting into. The shoulderpad stubs need to be clipped and the torso sides cut to make flat sockets for arms to attach to. You're experienced, so probably won't have any trouble, but for someone who is new to miniatures, they might be frustrating.

Yeah, good point. I've done a bunch of converting with the old MAAs (the freakishly long frostgrave pirate arms for example look great on them), so I know what I'm getting into...

 Gallahad wrote:
Yeah, good point. I've done a bunch of converting with the old MAAs (the freakishly long frostgrave pirate arms for example look great on them), so I know what I'm getting into...

has anyone converted the old MAA with GCPs arms?

 lord marcus wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Yeah, good point. I've done a bunch of converting with the old MAAs (the freakishly long frostgrave pirate arms for example look great on them), so I know what I'm getting into...

has anyone converted the old MAA with GCPs arms?

You mean the Mantic sci fi troops? Yes. I'll try to find them this weekend.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
Yeah, good point. I've done a bunch of converting with the old MAAs (the freakishly long frostgrave pirate arms for example look great on them), so I know what I'm getting into...

has anyone converted the old MAA with GCPs arms?

You mean the Mantic sci fi troops? Yes. I'll try to find them this weekend.

yes. if you could snap a photo that would be lovely.

Did anyone back for the Deluxe Neoprene mat?

I thought for $30 not a bad price, but what Mantic sold me is the worst thing I've ever seen. The browns and greens have a neon pink hue to them and the resolution is quite bad. Paper mat looks 10x better.

The deluxe mat is basically unusable. Just me or did anyone else notice the same with their deluxe mat?