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phrasing it as "models designed for Rank&File gaming" rather "models for mantic customers" would fit better without sounding like going after the people buying them

And this fiery text is a permanent reminder for you to do exactly that or be removed.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Pics so low resolution as if they're not fully confident in the sculpts, I'm amazed they still have a working VGA camera

You joke but I really, really like the ripper hulk as a sculpt. It has a very nice presence as a ship. absurdly large, feels good to use.


edit: oh, nevermind

I didn’t see any better pictures in the site. I couldn’t tell what I was looking at, really. And as someone who enjoys the details and designs on Mantic’s minis, I would like to.

I wrote more pictures, not better

 kodos wrote:
I wrote more pictures, not better

My mistake.

Sarouan wrote:
TBH, since they make pictures of a whole unit instead of individual models, it's good enough for Mantic customers. And since Mantic miniatures are best not to look in details...this is certainly the most effective depiction of their products.

I'm not offended.

I have a mountain of miniatures to paint, and only paint to advanced tabletop. Even then, I'll spend more time on a hero, and much less on a minion. So why paint and pay more for a mook that's just there to be removed from the table early in the game?

I've found Mantic *great* for non-descript mobs for solo miniature wargaming. I'll need five or ten or more fireball fodder for a game, and they need to be identically faceless so I can distinguish them from the elite, which I'll purchase from other companies. Much worse, each of my games are under an hour (solo plays much faster than PvP), no point painting mobs for days just for them to be wiped out in minutes. And the wallet doesn't like my paying much per mini, since I'll need a *different* batch of enemies (and terrain, that's not cheap and has to be painted, too) for my next game.

Some gamers aren't interested in painting, and don't want to pay much for a miniature. And, on the tabletop, you can't see all those details, anyway.

 ced1106 wrote:

I have a mountain of miniatures to paint, and only paint to advanced tabletop. Even then, I'll spend more time on a hero, and much less on a minion. So why paint and pay more for a mook that's just there to be removed from the table early in the game?

I've found Mantic *great* for non-descript mobs for solo miniature wargaming. I'll need five or ten or more fireball fodder for a game, and they need to be identically faceless so I can distinguish them from the elite, which I'll purchase from other companies. Much worse, each of my games are under an hour (solo plays much faster than PvP), no point painting mobs for days just for them to be wiped out in minutes. And the wallet doesn't like my paying much per mini, since I'll need a *different* batch of enemies (and terrain, that's not cheap and has to be painted, too) for my next game.

Some gamers aren't interested in painting, and don't want to pay much for a miniature. And, on the tabletop, you can't see all those details, anyway.

Yes, they're really great for that. I'm sure some here won't believe me, but I count myself in here - I'm not a great painter myself and I'm much more at ease when I paint the base colors, apply a shade then a light drybrush / lighting and call it done. I especially like when the miniatures are in one piece, without one of these damn hollow clothes with places impossible to reach with a brush. Especially when you have a ton to paint for a mass battle game.

It's just that they're not really that cheap to buy as compared to the past (import taxes don't help). They're not sold like Reaper Bone miniatures for sure.

 mattjgilbert wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone know when the retail release for Dungeon Saga Origins is planned for? Looking at retailers it is all over the place, I've seen as soon as a few weeks time, through to March 24 via a different retailer.

. KS delivery (including to retailers that bought copies of the KS version) is December this year. Retail launch is next year (date not announced).

As an update on this, in case anyone else is waiting, the retailers I was watching which had a pending release of this week have pushed them all back. Forbidden Planet is not listing October, but a lot of others are listing December now (which from what Matt has said above must be the real release date for retailers that backed the KS)

Found it on 4chan = no idea if legit - supposed new Elf. It is said that there are no plans to update the whole range yet.

That one is from the League of Infamy boardgame

Yes it is a new elve, no it won't be in KoW as unit

That is a lovely looking miniature! I know the superb paint job probably helps but I love the proportions and style, and fact he doesn't have a 19ft-tall hat.

 kodos wrote:
no it won't be in KoW as unit

Shame, it looks great.

Damn that’s a nice take on elves.

Mantic's news email announced Twilight Kin list will be available on the 3rd of October and pre-orders dispatch on the 18th of October.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 kodos wrote:
no it won't be in KoW as unit

Shame, it looks great.

Presumably what we can expect when Mantic do get to redoing elves.

I don't know enough about 3rd edition balance to say it's power creep, but it's definitely feature creep and complexity creep and diminishing of WYSIWYG. Why does each unit need stat and USR upgrade options?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know enough about 3rd edition balance to say it's power creep, but it's definitely feature creep and complexity creep and diminishing of WYSIWYG. Why does each unit need stat and USR upgrade options?

What do you mean ? 3rd edition has always been like that. I see nothing out of the ordinary in these rules.

Sarouan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know enough about 3rd edition balance to say it's power creep, but it's definitely feature creep and complexity creep and diminishing of WYSIWYG. Why does each unit need stat and USR upgrade options?

What do you mean ? 3rd edition has always been like that. I see nothing out of the ordinary in these rules.

I just whipped out my 3.5 book and checked my main two armies plus Halflings which are a dev's pet project and even they didn't have anything like this, so I don't know what you mean.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Sarouan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know enough about 3rd edition balance to say it's power creep, but it's definitely feature creep and complexity creep and diminishing of WYSIWYG. Why does each unit need stat and USR upgrade options?

What do you mean ? 3rd edition has always been like that. I see nothing out of the ordinary in these rules.

I just whipped out my 3.5 book and checked my main two armies plus Halflings which are a dev's pet project and even they didn't have anything like this, so I don't know what you mean.

Well yeah, that's because 3rd edition is specifically about giving more options / special rules to each army. No gak halflings are different. Generic special rules weren't considered enough in comparison to 2nd, and that was a player's request as well (especially from the competitive scene).

Here with Twilight Kin, it's the natural evolution. That's why I said I don't understand what you mean when you seem to act surprised they did that.

I said I checked my book and see no trace of what you're talking about. Twilight Kin and their 2-3 upgrade options per unit are a departure from design that was stable 2.0 through 3.5. Riftforged Orcs have nothing of the sort either.

Yes and No, the faction upgrade is something to be left aside as most have those.
Than you a lot of units either have weapon options/upgrades or a veteran/command upgrade

so the Voidwalkers are the exception with having a weapon upgrade and a veteran upgrade something by now only Varangur and Northern Alliance had

for the Heroes this looks like a lot but is in line with other special heroes from the factions (eg Exemplar Hunter) and if the other units are more "vanilla" it is in line with the previous 3rd edition facctions

The campaign for .stl files of Armada is live on Myminifactory Frontiers :

https://www.myminifactory.com/frontier/armada-the-game-of-naval-battles-2156?referral=0f5703f6

Basically you have a chance to buy everything cheaper, and maybe some extra stuff like scenery pack if it reaches high enough.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Why does each unit need stat and USR upgrade options?

From my experience, the primary complaint RNF players have of KOW - and I'm mostly talking about unconverted WHFB players here - is that army building isn't complex enough. (The other complaints are no dedicated magic phase and a deep longing for herohammer ...) The uptick in army complexity has felt to me like a response to this complaint, combined with designers who are feeling more adventurous and wanting to try new things in a mature rules set.

I'm far more excited that KOW's Naughty Elves are getting cool, complex and interesting rules than what they had before, which was mostly brutal efficiency with a few really painful unique rules on legendary heroes.

Companion is updated with the TK list:
https://companion.manticgames.com/kings-of-war-list-builder/

Huh, these are all normal in the upgrades department.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Huh, these are all normal in the upgrades department.

Presumably Kyle was showing off the most interesting units before.

They'll definitely be fun to play. I'm still not bought on the miniatures, but that's just my personnal taste. They feel like githyankis (astral plane raiders) to me.

Everytime I see "TK" I can't help but read "Tomb Kings" in my head. Will need time to adjust.

Sarouan wrote:
Everytime I see "TK" I can't help but read "Tomb Kings" in my head. Will need time to adjust.

I hear ya on that one

Mantic sent some samples out to be painted, one guy posted these various Impaler colour schemes to the unofficial official Facebook group.