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...Now Ilike much of Mantic's stuf, but... W_T_F?

 Daedleh wrote:
Molochs are on their way. Hopefully this means we'll see a decent chunk of the Abyssal army launched at the same time. No idea of date yet.



There's also definite a Beserker lord on brock on its way, and very likely to be an Ogre Warlock too given the overwhelmingly positive feedback to the initial sculpt.

If the actual model looks anything like that it'll be great.

Any idea on when we'll see some sculpts?

No idea yet. We've still got a lot of the kickstarter miniatures due to be released including the brock riders and twilight kin stuff. I suspect once they're out then we'll start hearing more. Of course the Open Day is happening on the 30th November so Ronnie will probably spill a lot of beans there.

I'd love to see Mantic make models that look like one (or both) of these concepts.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, it looks like the top one got rolled into the KS Ogres, in terms of gear.

Ahh... concepts.

They excite the mind so much.

At least they're not... say... these concepts.



which became these


"Help! I've got elephantitis of the hands!"

Actually, Doug. Jes' picture there is dated 1991, and the resulting figures were these, in 1992 as part of the WFB4 boxed set:


While it's true that the designs are still generally based on Jes' styles laid down 20 years ago, newer figures such as the ones shown are based on more recent briefs. And, let's be blunt. Big hands on an elf is far less of an issue than the utter gak that was produced in place of the original trolls, Men-at-Arms, and Sisters.

Also - and rather more relevantly - is that GW didn't take money off gamers in advance based on the far superior concept art and then deliver the poorer quality High Elves. There were at least previews of the Trolls so we could be disappointed in advance and change our pledges. They truly shat on people from a great height with those Men-At-Arms.

My actual point of posting those Troll pictures is twofold -
- firstly that people should be very wary of backing Mantic based on great concept art. (Should I also show the Men-at-Arms, or the Nuns?)
- secondly that the original troll artwork is still very good, and if they're going to start doing a better or more consistent job of holding to concept art and producing good miniatures, those specific designs are clearly worth revisiting.

Oh, trust me, I know full well the promise the HE range has and how half... probably, actually, more than half... of the models are just terrible. I have tons and tons and tons of High Elf models as they are one of my favorite armies of all time and I've been very careful, having to mix over 20 years of HE models to make an army that looks mostly good.

Y'know, interestingly, while I myself dislike a good half of the KoW KS figures... I've found that overwhelmingly other people like them. The Basilean models keep selling out online, and people on other sites like Beasts of War are just full of praise from random internet people. It seems like at least a ten to one like vs dislike ratio, shrug. And normally people only bother to type about gak when they don't like it.

But, that's just me... and I'm usually utterly aghast that many sculpts can continue to sell (about half of GW's range including the HE above, most of Warmachine lol). I don't want to say my tastes are more discerning or something, but I just don't understand that those GW models or the Basileans sell.

Now, I would love to see those trolls get made... though at this point I don't know if I'd use them (having already bought a pile of Mierce trolls). Bought if they were made and they were cheap enough, hell, I could just do a troll army. Just add on to the other 8 Kings of War armies I've started in the past year (Orcs, Dwarves, Elves, Goblins, Basilean Lion, Helsvakt Horde, Cult of Set, and a fully mounted Goblin army I've just decided to do)

Actually, my opinion is that a great many of the 20-year-old HE sculpts are still the best of their kind. Owing largely to four magic words that apply to both the concepts and the sculpts - Designed by Jes Goodwin (Teclis and Tyrion's idiotically giant hats aside)

When it comes down to brass tacks though, what pisses me off and keeps me bent out of shape about the Sisters/Trolls/etc isn't simply that they're a poor execution of the concept art, but that a lot better was promised in paid-up-front, crowd-funded kickstarter form. The trolls worse than the sisters or MAA in one way because of what in the end amounted to a bait-and-switch to their backers and the MAA worse in a different way because of the "no photos at all, just ship them!" policy.

To put it another way, I think the Drakon riders and Mantic Elves are also poor models, but I don't go on about them, because they were regular product, brought to retail without the pay upfront and hope nature of the KS stuff. If the Trolls, Cat Riders, Sisters, MAA were just normal models that turned up at retail I wouldn't give a gak, since I'd write them off on sight and forget about their existence a second later, instead of them being things I plonked money down for, and had to scramble to find passable replacements for a year later...

With this not entirely enjoyable experience under my belt, I figure I'm going to make up for it in a combiniation humourous snark, and also being very careful about trusting Mantic's concept art.

As for the concept-art trolls, you'd still find space for them, as would I. They'd be half the size of the Mierce ones anyway, and have as much specific detail in common with them as the Mierce ones do to GW or LotR ones. Easily proxied as anything medium sized, or as trolls from a different tribe/sub-race. If they ever got made, they'd fit in nicely with Tre's Helsvakt, actually...

 Azazelx wrote:

With this not entirely enjoyable experience under my belt, I figure I'm going to make up for it in a combiniation humourous snark, and also being very careful about trusting Mantic's concept art.

I also find that snark helps to make the KS feel "worth it" to me. Sedition Wars is another KS where I certainly didn't get my pledge's worth in the miniatures.

Things would be different if Mantic actually changed their strategies completely, but they are still saying things like "We have a boatful of product on its way. No pictures, though. We haven't seen any production minis, either."n That tells me that Mantic either haven't learned anything from their past mistakes or they didn't mean it when they apologized.

If the Basileans really are selling that well, then Mantic has no reason to change. I can't imagine how they could be selling sub-EM4-quality minis at more-than-WGF prices, nearly GW prices for restics. Their rules must be that good, eh?

Judging by current trends, once WGF finally signs up some real fantasy sculptors, Mantic is dead.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Things would be different if Mantic actually changed their strategies completely, but they are still saying things like "We have a boatful of product on its way. No pictures, though. We haven't seen any production minis, either."

So things are different, cool

Deadzone update #117
"The vast majority of the models are now on their way to us, and they’re looking fantastic. We were not happy with some of the first batch, so we reworked the mould and ran it again. We’ve seen the results and we're very happy with them. We haven’t had a chance to get any photos just yet, but we are flying in some of the production pieces and will get images out as soon as we receive them."

 judgedoug wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Things would be different if Mantic actually changed their strategies completely, but they are still saying things like "We have a boatful of product on its way. No pictures, though. We haven't seen any production minis, either."

So things are different, cool

Deadzone update #117
"The vast majority of the models are now on their way to us, and they’re looking fantastic. We were not happy with some of the first batch, so we reworked the mould and ran it again. We’ve seen the results and we're very happy with them. We haven’t had a chance to get any photos just yet, but we are flying in some of the production pieces and will get images out as soon as we receive them."

There's no point judgedoug, next it will be yeah but Mantic did this or that so there a horrible company.

 Azazelx wrote:
Actually, my opinion is that a great many of the 20-year-old HE sculpts are still the best of their kind. Owing largely to four magic words that apply to both the concepts and the sculpts - Designed by Jes Goodwin (Teclis and Tyrion's idiotically giant hats aside)

When it comes down to brass tacks though, what pisses me off and keeps me bent out of shape about the Sisters/Trolls/etc isn't simply that they're a poor execution of the concept art, but that a lot better was promised in paid-up-front, crowd-funded kickstarter form. The trolls worse than the sisters or MAA in one way because of what in the end amounted to a bait-and-switch to their backers and the MAA worse in a different way because of the "no photos at all, just ship them!" policy.

To put it another way, I think the Drakon riders and Mantic Elves are also poor models, but I don't go on about them, because they were regular product, brought to retail without the pay upfront and hope nature of the KS stuff. If the Trolls, Cat Riders, Sisters, MAA were just normal models that turned up at retail I wouldn't give a gak, since I'd write them off on sight and forget about their existence a second later, instead of them being things I plonked money down for, and had to scramble to find passable replacements for a year later...

With this not entirely enjoyable experience under my belt, I figure I'm going to make up for it in a combiniation humourous snark, and also being very careful about trusting Mantic's concept art.

As for the concept-art trolls, you'd still find space for them, as would I. They'd be half the size of the Mierce ones anyway, and have as much specific detail in common with them as the Mierce ones do to GW or LotR ones. Easily proxied as anything medium sized, or as trolls from a different tribe/sub-race. If they ever got made, they'd fit in nicely with Tre's Helsvakt, actually...

My High Elves are a mix of the best - 4th edition metal spearmen and archers, 6th edition shadow warriors, phoenix guard and white lions, new 8th plastic lothern sea guard, etc.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to what the hell Kickstarter is, in my brain - I invest in a company and I am given product from what was made possible. I agree with your logic of "they releases the Drakons, they suck, ignore" but I also apply that to the KS process... it's a giant gamble. With Mantic's, I've been mostly happy (with the superhappy part of having started playing KoW due to the KS, heralding in a renaissance for myself and my gaming club of fantasy gaming not seen since General's Compendium era WHFB). Sure I was sad about the trolls but if I wanted insurance before plunking money down I would wait for the retail release, and that goes for anybody. You could buy Enron stock thinking it's gonna be great and then get burned; instead of being totally SOL though at least Mantic replaces miscasts.

Honestly the only concept art I truly trust is Mierce's, because they have as close to 100% success rate. Everybody else I'm like "that's nice, lemme see the model".

Now you've got me excited about concept art trolls again, damn you! lol.

I think if I won some sort of lottery I'd either buy Mantic or give them a million bucks with the caveat that a handful of Dakka peeps such as me and yourself and a few others are in control of what it's spent on - concept art, sculpts, tooling, etc. I'd LOVE for them to succeed but there's too many lows canceling out the highs.

 judgedoug wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Things would be different if Mantic actually changed their strategies completely, but they are still saying things like "We have a boatful of product on its way. No pictures, though. We haven't seen any production minis, either."

So things are different, cool

Deadzone update #117
"The vast majority of the models are now on their way to us, and they’re looking fantastic. We were not happy with some of the first batch, so we reworked the mould and ran it again. We’ve seen the results and we're very happy with them. We haven’t had a chance to get any photos just yet, but we are flying in some of the production pieces and will get images out as soon as we receive them."

How can they both
1) have had the time and opportunity to examine the production models enough to know they look fantastic
2) not have any pictures of the production models
?

Every phone is a camera, and if they have an aversion to postic phone pics, real cameras are affordable and plentiful. Hell, I wouldn't fly to China without bringing a camera just for the touristy things, let alone to reassure the many backers who are emotionally invested in my product but reeling from my previous, catastrophic release..

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How can they both
1) have had the time and opportunity to examine the production models enough to know they look fantastic
2) not have any pictures of the production models
?

Every phone is a camera, and if they have an aversion to postic phone pics, real cameras are affordable and plentiful. Hell, I wouldn't fly to China without bringing a camera just for the touristy things, let alone to reassure the many backers who are emotionally invested in my product but reeling from my previous, catastrophic release..

1. They flew someone out to look. That person confirmed their quality.
2. They don't have a photo studio in China, they do in their office. It's a small delay to wait for good photos to be taken in the office - and avoid the dramas about "omg these minis are horrible!" when it's just low quality photos.

So I don't see a problem with it. There will be a problem (for Mars Attacks at least) if good photos don't surface fairly soon however I imagine.

 judgedoug wrote:

My High Elves are a mix of the best - 4th edition metal spearmen and archers, 6th edition shadow warriors, phoenix guard and white lions, new 8th plastic lothern sea guard, etc.

Pics please. Here or in another thread. Even if they're unpainted. Ta.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to what the hell Kickstarter is, in my brain - I invest in a company and I am given product from what was made possible. I agree with your logic of "they releases the Drakons, they suck, ignore" but I also apply that to the KS process... it's a giant gamble. With Mantic's, I've been mostly happy (with the superhappy part of having started playing KoW due to the KS, heralding in a renaissance for myself and my gaming club of fantasy gaming not seen since General's Compendium era WHFB). Sure I was sad about the trolls but if I wanted insurance before plunking money down I would wait for the retail release, and that goes for anybody. You could buy Enron stock thinking it's gonna be great and then get burned; instead of being totally SOL though at least Mantic replaces miscasts.

Sure, but even if the figures are cheap, they're coming out of my wallet - so I can't afford to apply that kind of logic to KS. While I'm happy to support up-and-coming companies like Mantic, I do expect quality control/art direction - and better QC than Mantic has been managing. If I wanted to give to charity, there are plenty of worthy causes I already don't give to. It's the difference to me between supporting a company to get stuff made in a convoluted form of risky pre-order and charity - where I'm buying a "feel good" moment and not expecting anything back.

Honestly the only concept art I truly trust is Mierce's, because they have as close to 100% success rate. Everybody else I'm like "that's nice, lemme see the model".
Now you've got me excited about concept art trolls again, damn you! lol.

Well, I could also recommend Avatars of War, Dreamforge and Raging Heroes. You might just be waiting a little (or long) while for your toys, and of those three, only Dreamforge will actually talk to you. No reason I can see why those trolls can't be revisited, though.

I think if I won some sort of lottery I'd either buy Mantic or give them a million bucks with the caveat that a handful of Dakka peeps such as me and yourself and a few others are in control of what it's spent on - concept art, sculpts, tooling, etc. I'd LOVE for them to succeed but there's too many lows canceling out the highs.

See, that's how so many of us feel. We're not here to pick on poor liddle Mantic, as I doubt we'd be spending our hard earned with them if that were the case. They're just so close so often, and then they go and do something stupid (like go quiet, ship gakky models, etc) and you just want to Slap Some Sense into them again (note: tested and confirmed on Mythbusters!) BTW, my wife literally walked in in the last 20 minutes with my weekly mail run, which included DZ S3. There's some figures missing with an apology, some unexpected metals that should be restic, the larger figures look quite good while the smaller ones look about the same quality as S2, and once again, everything in the box appears to have been torn off the sprues.

The book, however, is lovely.

Actually, another point - on the perceived popularity of the Basilieans (Nuns, etc) - the painted unit photos on BoW etc look quite nice, and if you don't have the figures in hand or know to look closely at the promo pics, there's stuff you wouldn't notice. (arm length, etc). I wonder how they will actually sell in the medium to long term.

 Yonan wrote:

1. They flew someone out to look. That person confirmed their quality.
2. They don't have a photo studio in China, they do in their office. It's a small delay to wait for good photos to be taken in the office - and avoid the dramas about "omg these minis are horrible!" when it's just low quality photos.

So I don't see a problem with it. There will be a problem (for Mars Attacks at least) if good photos don't surface fairly soon however I imagine.

The thing is that they've pumped out some very sub-par models in 2013. Presumably, those had their "quality confirmed" before they went out as well. The other thing of course is, they've pulled the "we don't have any photos!" excuse so many times now that many of us no longer trust them anymore. That's called an erosion of consumer confidence, and isn't the greatest thing in the world to have - especially when a core part of your business strategy relies on crowdfunding being the source of your projects' capital.

Actually, another point - on the perceived popularity of the Basilieans (Nuns, etc) - the painted unit photos on BoW etc look quite nice, and if you don't have the figures in hand or know to look closely at the promo pics, there's stuff you wouldn't notice. (arm length, etc). I wonder how they will actually sell in the medium to long term.

Yeah, I'd imagine that explains the popularity... they look nice in the shiny painted pics of the resin masters... not so much when you get them in your hands. Even I should have looked a little more closely because I went for extra men-at-arms based on the resin masters and mantic's assurances.

It's like a reverse mantic elves situation.. those look better in-hand simply because the paint schemes and pictures for them have been terrible for a long time.

This was the only actually good photo they had of them on the site, unpainted and shows them off quite well:

 scarletsquig wrote:

It's like a reverse mantic elves situation.. those look better in-hand simply because the paint schemes and pictures for them have been terrible for a long time.

This is actually my straight up favorite pic of the Mantic elf spearmen and really shows what you can do with them


HOWEVER I've noticed that NO ONE uses the extra armor bits? My Mantic elves are all getting the extra armor glued onto them because they look about twice as cool and not even Mantic's official models or any I can find on google image search have the damn armor glued on!
(I'm even going to be gluing it onto the palace guard... as I'm painting their body armor as form-fitting leather, and the extra armor will be the only metal armor on them)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

My High Elves are a mix of the best - 4th edition metal spearmen and archers, 6th edition shadow warriors, phoenix guard and white lions, new 8th plastic lothern sea guard, etc.

Pics please. Here or in another thread. Even if they're unpainted. Ta.

Of my WHFB HE army? It's nothing too special, but I certainly can if you'd like. Only a few units are painted.

Sure, but even if the figures are cheap, they're coming out of my wallet - so I can't afford to apply that kind of logic to KS. While I'm happy to support up-and-coming companies like Mantic, I do expect quality control/art direction - and better QC than Mantic has been managing. If I wanted to give to charity, there are plenty of worthy causes I already don't give to. It's the difference to me between supporting a company to get stuff made in a convoluted form of risky pre-order and charity - where I'm buying a "feel good" moment and not expecting anything back.

Of course I'd like the best QC and the best return on investment possible, but I'm also not under the assumption I will get 100% bestest.

Well, I could also recommend Avatars of War, Dreamforge and Raging Heroes. You might just be waiting a little (or long) while for your toys, and of those three, only Dreamforge will actually talk to you. No reason I can see why those trolls can't be revisited, though.

Oh I love love AoW but I also know not to trust them (and didn't do the indiegogo!). I buy tons of AoW items... when they are available retail Such as the Pathfinders unit I did that mini-review about. With Mantic KoW there's a chance I may not support their next KS - if they do another KoW one - or only do it in a token way and then add on in their post-KS pledge managers once there's greens shown. (if they go back to Renedra I will throw down as much money as I can find however) Just because I was mostly happy with my pledge doesn't mean I'll close my eyes and jump blindly at the next one.

See, that's how so many of us feel. We're not here to pick on poor liddle Mantic, as I doubt we'd be spending our hard earned with them if that were the case. They're just so close so often, and then they go and do something stupid (like go quiet, ship gakky models, etc) and you just want to Slap Some Sense into them again (note: tested and confirmed on Mythbusters!)

Oh, totally agree. I mentioned this in the other thread but I think their main problem is growing too big too fast and once they settle down and catch their breath we'll see more solid output from them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

How can they both
1) have had the time and opportunity to examine the production models enough to know they look fantastic
2) not have any pictures of the production models
?

Every phone is a camera, and if they have an aversion to postic phone pics, real cameras are affordable and plentiful. Hell, I wouldn't fly to China without bringing a camera just for the touristy things, let alone to reassure the many backers who are emotionally invested in my product but reeling from my previous, catastrophic release..

Dude, I'm not sure if you remember, but I certainly do - preview pics, lowish quality, of Dreadball figures being summarily torn apart by everyone and if people saying they if they're not going to post good pics then don't post crap pics where we can't see the details or the camera flash enhances a mold line or something.

Shortly after that they stopped showing cell phone / point and shoot quality preview pics.

I'm not too worried - the only time it matters for me is if they open the pledge manager again and ask us to pay for models sight unseen, which is why I was hounding them during the wave 2 and wave 3 portions of KoW. It's one thing to back a KS initially with your pledge, sight unseen, it's another matter entirely to have a preorder (which is what those wave2/3/etc pledge managers are, as the models will be produced) without pics. That goes into Azazelx, as above, and my beliefs on Kickstarters in general. The KS is an investment and a gamble and you may be burned, but the future pledge managers are definitely preorder mechanisms so we'll need to see every damn aspect of it before I spend a penny. But again, just me.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Even I should have looked a little more closely because I went for extra men-at-arms based on the resin masters and mantic's assurances.

If they're now offering to refund people if they're not satisfied (and cover the shipping) you should seriously return those Men At Arms. I know you like Mantic, want to support them and aren't he kind of guy to want to cause a fuss, etc, but they really abused your (and many others') goodwill on those models. You'll be doing them a favour, long-term, teaching them that the kind of crap they pulled there isn't acceptable, and it'll cost them more when people return the figures. I'm sure the hole in your pocket works out a lot bigger proportionally than the one in theirs for your order, and they can always recycle the returned figures by devaluing their Christmas gift boxes with them or something, unless retail orders for them are doing well, in which case they can resell them...

 judgedoug wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

It's like a reverse mantic elves situation.. those look better in-hand simply because the paint schemes and pictures for them have been terrible for a long time.

This is actually my straight up favorite pic of the Mantic elf spearmen and really shows what you can do with them

Those do look kind of cool actually!

 Pacific wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:

It's like a reverse mantic elves situation.. those look better in-hand simply because the paint schemes and pictures for them have been terrible for a long time.

This is actually my straight up favorite pic of the Mantic elf spearmen and really shows what you can do with them

Those do look kind of cool actually!

They do look good there - because they are all alone. The problem with the elves is when you place them next to other things and see that they look like whispy little children.

Unrelatedly does anyone know - have we seen a picture of the Twilight Kin cavalry yet -assembled/painted?

They scale pretty well with other mantic minis, it's only when you put them next to GW minis that they don't fit.

I'd say the dwarfs (the plastic ones anyway) are more out of scale with the mantic range than the elves, on the whole.

The elves feel like they fit, although they're really not GW high elves and more of a "fey, wispy thing lurking in the forest" interpretation of the elf archetype, they're supposed to look a bit odd and otherwordly.

Mantic when they first started out wanted to offer a unique take on fantasy archetypes (while remaining warhammer compatible in terms of models matching rules), an idea which was somewhat blunted very quickly by everyone screaming at them to make GW clones... kind of a shame since no matter what your opinion of the elves is, you have to admit they're an interesting artistic choice, all following a set theme and vision and all in a consistent style and scale across the entire miniature range - something which has been lacking in Mantic's later releases. I'd much rather have truescale and unique and interesting miniature designs no matter how much internet gnashing there is to the contrary.

Infinity minis are thin, tiny and truescale but you don't see any complaints because no-one is buying them as 40k proxies. With Mantic everyone has "warhams but cheaper" at the back of their mind.

I'm not so sure about your conclusions on the elves there, Scarletsquig.

Even seeing them painted up, in person by someone way more skilled at painting than me, I still think the elves look like stickmen.

GW's movie Lord of the Rings Elven models are pretty much an ideal representation of Elven models in my point of view. They're a great balance between the slender elven-ness and proper models.

 Compel wrote:
I still think the elves look like stickmen.

Well they *are* men holding sticks... ; p

I don't really buy the whole "we never take quick pictures of our models because they exaggerate the downside" or "it takes a proffesional photo studio to get decent photos of miniatures" argument. These are models that have already been paid for. In full. These aren't the pictures you are handing out to people who are about to decide whether or not to buy your stuff. These are pictures for people who have already paid for your miniatures, and you are about to ask them to buy more! There will be plenty of time for fancy photos pre-retail release. It is either intentional or incompetent.

I want to be Mantic's biggest fan. I loved watching Ronnie talk about the DZ terrain sprues and put them together. That was a cool CEO thing to do. It gave me warm fuzzies towards Mantic, he just looked so enthusiastic and like he was having fun! I admire him for creating a company out of nothing.

Then I remembered the KoW kickstarter. I knew it was a risk, a gamble. And it sure didn't pay off. I won't send them money for models unseen ever again.

What happened to the company that made the plastic zombies, ghouls, and skeletons? A company that asks its backers to hand over more money for the sisters and MAA after it knew what the quality was like, a company that repeatedly offers limp excuses about why it won't send photos of product to the people that funded its production, just isn't a company that feels like it deserves any sort of special treatment from me.

I bought into the whole "Mantic is special" thing, and it didn't really work out.

I hope they get back the magic and the Deadzone sprues are incredible. But based off their past track record, I don't expect it.

 Gallahad wrote:
I don't really buy the whole "we never take quick pictures of our models because they exaggerate the downside" or "it takes a proffesional photo studio to get decent photos of miniatures" argument.

Don't mischaracterise the argument, it's not "never" - it's "used to", until they got burnt by it with Dreadball. I can see why they might want to wait to get good ones out so they don't get burnt again. I agree we need pics, so long as they're out before we pony up money again (ie. Mars Attacks) it should be fine.

When did they get burned, exactly? The Deadzone Marauders did turn out to be bad sculpts. Most of their hated sculpts we first saw in bad photos are still hated in hand.

How was it a burn and not a Raging Heroes reaction to valid criticism?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When did they get burned, exactly? The Deadzone Marauders did turn out to be bad sculpts. Most of their hated sculpts we first saw in bad photos are still hated in hand.

Thats just your opinion I like the Marauders (just don't look at thos Mawbeasts!). The only sculpts that were bad from the KoW KS were the atrocious M@A and nuns but thats just like my opinion.

overtyrant wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When did they get burned, exactly? The Deadzone Marauders did turn out to be bad sculpts. Most of their hated sculpts we first saw in bad photos are still hated in hand.

Thats just your opinion I like the Marauders (just don't look at thos Mawbeasts!). The only sculpts that were bad from the KoW KS were the atrocious M@A and nuns but thats just like my opinion.

No, it was Mantic's opinion. That's why they had the Marauders "fixed" by their in-house sculptor.


I wasn't posting my opinion at all.

Bob, you might need to rewrite what you are talking about. You are making it sound like consumers got the Mauraders in hand and they are awful. That's why over tyrant responded like he did. It didn't sound like you were referring to the WIP greens that leaked.

Sorry, I meant that the leaked pics of the marauders not only caused bad fan reactions, but also caused Mantic to resculpt the minis. In other words, the "fix" was to repair the models and not to take professional pictures.

I still haven't heard of another example of Mantic taking quick pics of a product and it resulting in a massive backlash, excepting times when the product itself turned out later to actually be bad, either in Mantic's opinion or in the final consumers' opinions.

Then Mantic stopped showing pics of production models altogether and started shipping backers boxes full of mystery models. What do they look like? No one knows. The excuse that we've heard is that Mantic doesn't take quick pics because there is a backlash--apparently people see bad pics of good models and mistake them for bad models, according to this hypothesis. The trouble is...when did that actually happen?