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You operate the system it's being distributed on no? So you are handling distribution now even if you didn't send out the original email. It's your system that allowed it to apparently be open source to anyone (I assumed it would have to be an account linked to the actual kickstarter email).

Essentially this is your mess and you're now "here to help" after screwing the pooch and being rude. Got it

That's enough back and forth, please. Remember that rule #1 of Dakka is "Be Polite"

I'm a little bummed that I checked here yesterday and saw the link, but did not take advantage of it... I am a backer of the Kickstarter, but hadn't yet gotten the link. Colonelgrib, will your company be putting up a (not publicly shared) replacement for those of us who did not yet get our Kickstarter copy?

I didn't get the mail either, and in Bioptic's defense the content of the mail said nothing about not sharing it, and the link just looked like a product purchase page (which seems to currently be publicly accessible from the front page of manticdigital.com anyway?).

At this point, the best solution would probably be making a new link and then having Mantic post it as a "backers only" update.

It will mean that $1-only backers get the .pdf as well, but that's not really much of a concern.

Anyway, the book is really great, my club is running a 6-round map campaign using the rules in the book, getting my abyssals put together for it.

If the email did not say that the link was private then I apologise, it was my understanding that it did.

This isn't a support channel, if backers have not received items that they should have, digital or otherwise then Mantic have systems in place for backers to get in touch. The backers here could also have easily have contacted us via the support tab at Mantic Digital where we could actually confirm if they are eligible.

Perhaps I overreacted initially but I don't think the link should have been shared publicly as it's obvious that people will take advantage of it and I don't think that's fair on the people who put hard work into making and testing the product. Regardless of how people feel about Mantic's customer service there are real people and real fans making this stuff.

I think my favorite thing about the last two pages in this thread is that actual mantic employees use this forum and will get to see this shining gem of customer relations.

colonelgrib wrote:
If the email did not say that the link was private then I apologise, it was my understanding that it did.

This isn't a support channel, if backers have not received items that they should have, digital or otherwise then Mantic have systems in place for backers to get in touch. The backers here could also have easily have contacted us via the support tab at Mantic Digital where we could actually confirm if they are eligible.

Perhaps I overreacted initially but I don't think the link should have been shared publicly as it's obvious that people will take advantage of it and I don't think that's fair on the people who put hard work into making and testing the product. Regardless of how people feel about Mantic's customer service there are real people and real fans making this stuff.

except how are we to know that it was out there and we missed it unless someone posts about it here K sure don't sit around refreshing Mantics page, Dakkadakka-Yes, Mantics

colonelgrib wrote:
Emails were sent out via Kickstarter, so if you didn't get it you should check your spam folder or Kickstarter messages.

That was meant to be a private link to backers shared with backers only, because it's being shared here we've taken that link offline. Thanks for ruining it for everyone!

I get the emails for every single Mantic kickstarter, as well as the Mantic newsletter. I received no link. If it weren't for this thread, I would not have even known the PDF was available.

colonelgrib wrote:
If the email did not say that the link was private then I apologise, it was my understanding that it did.

This isn't a support channel, if backers have not received items that they should have, digital or otherwise then Mantic have systems in place for backers to get in touch. The backers here could also have easily have contacted us via the support tab at Mantic Digital where we could actually confirm if they are eligible.

Perhaps I overreacted initially but I don't think the link should have been shared publicly as it's obvious that people will take advantage of it and I don't think that's fair on the people who put hard work into making and testing the product. Regardless of how people feel about Mantic's customer service there are real people and real fans making this stuff.

So you signed up for a forum to scold someone for something you misunderstood. Sigh...

I'm also a backer got no email and was happy to see the link to get what I paid for. Lord knows, Mantic usually puts you through some hell to get stuff. The book itself is very nice. It's pretty polished, and while it's not groundbreaking, it's some of mantic's better work.

Edit:Never mind.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

colonelgrib wrote:
I'm owner of Geiger the company who operate Mantic Digital. So not an employee of Mantic and not the person who sent out the email with links but still someone who can help resolve the situation.

I'm not just here to be sarcastic, but I make no apologies for that, but as well I'm trying to help out by compiling a list of eligible backers from the pledgemanager who have the book in their account already. I'll then send an invite link with a one-time coupon code to everyone else who should have it (look for that coming from info AT manticdigital DOT COM)

So Geiger is the company we should write in to Mantic to tell them to stop using? Thanks.

Okay guys, point's made regarding Geiger... let's move on please.

A Dakkanaut was kind enough to get me a copy since I didn't get my email link, really appreciate it!

Now that I'm finally home after holiday travel I am hoping to check and see that my FLGS has the hard copy of Uncharted Empires in-stock. They're already carrying the main rulebook, which I have a few copies of (to loan out and hook others ).

Also in the campaign supplement there are some much better pictures of the large golem... it really does look better with arms down in a "gorilla" like pose. Still not my favorite, but it's so much better than the arms raised build!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Edit:Never mind.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

colonelgrib wrote:
I'm owner of Geiger the company who operate Mantic Digital. So not an employee of Mantic and not the person who sent out the email with links but still someone who can help resolve the situation.

I'm not just here to be sarcastic, but I make no apologies for that, but as well I'm trying to help out by compiling a list of eligible backers from the pledgemanager who have the book in their account already. I'll then send an invite link with a one-time coupon code to everyone else who should have it (look for that coming from info AT manticdigital DOT COM)

So Geiger is the company we should write in to Mantic to tell them to stop using? Thanks.

Geiger's the company that made the Mantic Digital App and book readers.
I for one have bought a couple of books through them and have been very impressed. Mostly because I found a slight error in one and "moaned" on the forums one weekend. Before the end of the weekend, Geiger had got in touch with me, sorted out the error and put out an updated version.

I hope Bob's comment was sarcasm... I just can't tell.

This info is all very helpful, clearly a lot of people didn't get the link to the book which was sent by Mantic via Kickstarter. Normally we handle digital distribution ourselves but since Kickstarter already provided a way to contact backers of certain pledge levels that method was chosen. There's certainly some sort of problem there and I'll be sure to let Mantic know. I may have been sarcastic in my first post but I signed up to help the situation not try to make it worse.

If you haven't gotten a digital product that you feel you should have been entitled to then please go to manticdigital.com and use the support tab at the right. Give us the name of the book you should have and the email address and level of Kickstarter that you backed and we will help you immediately. Alternatively you can contact Mantic but that might take longer to get addressed. Unfortunately if you choose to reply on the forum that you didn't get a book but don't contact us at all then we can't help.

One final note reading back on posts it seems some of you guys backed at the $1 level, that could be why you didn't get this link as its only for $50 backers and up.

Thanks
Andrew

Bob is always serious; that's how he became an inquisitor.

On the radioactive sideshow, all I'll say is in a public space it is never smart to go hurling invective without solid information about the entire situation, and even then the short-term satisfaction is usually not at all worth it. Heck, even when I *know* someone has screwed up and have documentation to prove it I'm still generally hesitant to publicly call someone out instead of talking off-to-the-side. You can always add more words if needed later, but it's exceedingly difficult to take words away especially on the Internet.

Back to the main thrust of the thread, between Az and blackfang it sounds like I'll have to keep my eyes open for when the succubi and naiads hit the retail shelves. As someone mildly obsessed with dragons I really want to like the Salamanders, possibly as a basis for conversion into draconians, but I just can't see it working out. Since it's doubtful that's an original idea, has anyone already tried it?

colonelgrib wrote:
People really don't like being told off do they

Hello, and welcome to the Ignore List - enjoy your stay.

Many people, myself among them, did not receive the links that they were legitimately entitled to - and had sent e-mails that were never responded to.

They had reason to be concerned. I sent my email weeks ago, and never got a reply.

You are neither a Mod for Dakka nor a representative of the company - yet your behavior reflects poorly upon the company that you claim to be defending.

The post that should have mentioned the little detail that you have no standing with Mantic, and had neither authority from nor connection with the company.

That the link had no means of checking for the status of the person using the link... is a concern for Mantic - but do not get upon a high horse when preaching that people had no right to use the link - because many of them do.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Okay guys, point's made regarding Geiger... let's move on please.

A Dakkanaut was kind enough to get me a copy since I didn't get my email link, really appreciate it!

Now that I'm finally home after holiday travel I am hoping to check and see that my FLGS has the hard copy of Uncharted Empires in-stock. They're already carrying the main rulebook, which I have a few copies of (to loan out and hook others ).

Also in the campaign supplement there are some much better pictures of the large golem... it really does look better with arms down in a "gorilla" like pose. Still not my favorite, but it's so much better than the arms raised build!

The fact remains that PrivateGrib is the one that overstepped the bounds - folks do have a right to be disgruntled with him.

Coming down on the folks responding to him, but not to the initial offender, is not cool, eh?

Moving on - I am very happy with Uncharted Empires. I am even considering *GASP!* buying some Tomb King figures - simply because I like the Empire of Dust so much. (For months I have been trying to get somebody else to run the Mummy's Mask Pathfinder series - I really want to play for a change - but if I break down and buy some Tomb Kings... I will likely break down and run Mummy's Mask as well.

The Auld Grump

colonelgrib wrote:
One final note reading back on posts it seems some of you guys backed at the $1 level, that could be why you didn't get this link as its only for $50 backers and up.

I assume so as well, but the thing is, many of us increased our pledges later in the manager. The system sending out this pdf seems to only have done so for backers who put in 50$ through Kickstarter itself.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

colonelgrib wrote:
One final note reading back on posts it seems some of you guys backed at the $1 level, that could be why you didn't get this link as its only for $50 backers and up.

I assume so as well, but the thing is, many of us increased our pledges later in the manager. The system sending out this pdf seems to only have done so for backers who put in 50$ through Kickstarter itself.

Exactly.

I bought an entire freakin' army in the Pledge Manager.

I have indeed pledged above the $1, and Mantic really needs to address this. (Bear in mind - I really like Mantic, and have pledged in every one of their Kickstarters except Mars Attacks... and missed that one by about fifteen minutes.)

The Auld Grump

I bought Ultimate Tyrant, plus add ons, as a late backer. Should I be getting this .pdf too?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Moving on - I am very happy with Uncharted Empires. I am even considering *GASP!* buying some Tomb King figures - simply because I like the Empire of Dust so much.

My wife liked the idea of a Werewolf army using the Herd list, so we bought a ton of Confrontation pre-paints on clearance at MM. 2000 point painted Herd army for ~$60 is probably one of the best deals in gaming that I've gotten

I also have a ton of Wargames Factory/Gripping Beast/Field of Glory Dark Age and Celt minis in the cupboard to make a Varangur list.

Uncharted Empires is doing a great job at selling other companies' minis it seems!

Uncharted Empires has certainly motivated me to get back to work on my rats and lizards, that's for sure.

It's also got me eyeing cheap eBay lots of Tomb Kings as well... that's not good!

I wouldn't mind seeing what Mantic could do if they wanted to do their own versions of some of the Uncharted Empires races.

I've been wondering for a while how easy the Veer Myn plastics will be to modify into Ratkin...

 Alex C wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Moving on - I am very happy with Uncharted Empires. I am even considering *GASP!* buying some Tomb King figures - simply because I like the Empire of Dust so much.

My wife liked the idea of a Werewolf army using the Herd list, so we bought a ton of Confrontation pre-paints on clearance at MM. 2000 point painted Herd army for ~$60 is probably one of the best deals in gaming that I've gotten

I also have a ton of Wargames Factory/Gripping Beast/Field of Glory Dark Age and Celt minis in the cupboard to make a Varangur list.

Uncharted Empires is doing a great job at selling other companies' minis it seems!

Sadly, this is the case. But it is also doing an excellent job of letting people use their existing armies - my Empire forces rejoice!

But then I have also put a lot of money into Mantic figures, so it evens out. (I have armies of Mantic Undead, Dwarfs, and Orcs.... Abyssals on the way... considering Nature.... Kings of War has me back to having multiple armies. ) And my good lady is building a massive Goblin force. (Her method is very different from my own - I do up an army list, then buy what I need for the army. She gets the figures that she likes, then builds an army to use it with. My force is aimed at ~2,500 - she is aiming at 3,000. Plus, she has called dibs on the hill giants from our Bones II pledge reward....)

The Auld Grump - and I have enough Ogres to use as an allied force.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Sadly, this is the case.

But then I have also put a lot of money into Mantic figures, so it evens out. (I have armies of Mantic Undead, Dwarfs, and Orcs.... Abyssals on the way... considering Nature.... Kings of War has me back to having multiple armies. )

The Auld Grump - and I have enough Ogres to use as an allied force.

I know what you mean I have complete armies of Mantic Orcs, Undead, Ogres and Abyssals. Wife has Mantic Dwarfs, Elves, Basileans and Nature. We've got Goblins, Herd and Varangur from other minis lines. All this for probably as much as a few WFB armies would have cost.

The game is just so good and accessible with lots of options to use a wide variety of minis, it really caters to collecting lots of armies, and with the allies system you can use a lot of it together too.

That's cool that you get to play with your ladyfriend as well. I must admit we follow her style of army building too!

I will say between uncharted empires and gw's getting starter bundles I've just dropped around $600. Granted that was to GW and not mantic because I just like the GW aesthetic for the Salamanders and beastmen/chaos. But I might actually eventually pick up a nature/Fishman army from them if they ever mostly round out the ranges with plastic.

I will probably still use gw models for ratkin, elves (of both types), dwarves, and basilia. But I'll mix gw and mantic for my eventual undead armies.

Overall kudos to mantic for getting me excited about fantasy again.

Agreed, and I do hope to buy more Mantic models in the future - right now I've talked a ton of folks into buying the rules, and if the minis can catch up, Mantic has a huge underserved market available to them.

Jeez, guys. I'm pretty critical of Mantic, but I at least buy their models.



On clearance.



But in all seriousness, I've spent more with Mantic the last four years or so than with any other company. ( Might rethink that if they don't get it together.)

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Alex C wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Moving on - I am very happy with Uncharted Empires. I am even considering *GASP!* buying some Tomb King figures - simply because I like the Empire of Dust so much.

My wife liked the idea of a Werewolf army using the Herd list, so we bought a ton of Confrontation pre-paints on clearance at MM. 2000 point painted Herd army for ~$60 is probably one of the best deals in gaming that I've gotten

I also have a ton of Wargames Factory/Gripping Beast/Field of Glory Dark Age and Celt minis in the cupboard to make a Varangur list.

Uncharted Empires is doing a great job at selling other companies' minis it seems!

Sadly, this is the case. But it is also doing an excellent job of letting people use their existing armies - my Empire forces rejoice!

But then I have also put a lot of money into Mantic figures, so it evens out. (I have armies of Mantic Undead, Dwarfs, and Orcs.... Abyssals on the way... considering Nature.... Kings of War has me back to having multiple armies. ) And my good lady is building a massive Goblin force. (Her method is very different from my own - I do up an army list, then buy what I need for the army. She gets the figures that she likes, then builds an army to use it with. My force is aimed at ~2,500 - she is aiming at 3,000. Plus, she has called dibs on the hill giants from our Bones II pledge reward....)

The Auld Grump - and I have enough Ogres to use as an allied force.

I love the KoW rules, but for now Mantic's miniatures just aren't up to snuff imho. I'm very happy to have the option to build an uncharted empires army with other manufacturers models though! Perhaps Mantic will come up with models that really tempt me, but for now they're getting my money for the rules, but not figures.

Valete,

JohnS

colonelgrib wrote:
Emails were sent out via Kickstarter, so if you didn't get it you should check your spam folder or Kickstarter messages.

That was meant to be a private link to backers shared with backers only, because it's being shared here we've taken that link offline. Thanks for ruining it for everyone!

Yeah, I didn't get one. At all. Nor did quite a few of us, apparently. I'll also thank you not to speak to us with that kind of tone because you're not doing yourself or Mantic any favours in terms of customer service of reputation with that kind of attitude. And yes, the link took us to the Mantic Digital store and a normal-looking product link, so following it looked like "Oh, there it is, I guess while they might have fethed up the email they at least added it to my digital account".

Deleted the second, harsher part. And yes Alex, you should have gotten one as well. Not to mention the digital army-building app (if that ever got made/finished).

Cygnnus - Agreed, and I'm wanting to support them more and more, but need to see more things like their lesser golems (which I have a bunch of) to justify it. Really looking forward to the next KoW items from them - I know they've got The Walking Dead but this could be a really strong base for them.

Huh, I didn't know I was due more stuff, mainly because I pledged $1 and added the rest in with the PM. Would have been nice to know about the rest. Glad I have Dakka to let me know about this kind of stuff!

Digital army list app is still being worked on, I reviewed it a month or so ago and it needed some work.

It's functional, but I imagine a lot of people will keep using easyarmy since it's easier to build/ print lists on a PC screen rather than a mobile app.

I'm getting into KoW, but I do agree that their models aren't as good as GW's, which is why I won't be buying much. Sure, having 3 full GW WHFB armies helps, but Basiliea have tempted me (partly so I can use my Phoenixes and partly because of the Lion guy) but generally the models don't excite me.

I will be picking up a unit of Werewolves for Undead though - theose are certainly nice models.

Mantics new approach to customer service has a pretty poor start, at least for me. I do appreciate the general email updates, but one note in the last one about "stock shortages" annoyed me.

This is Kickstarter, which while it's not meant to be a pre-order system, is in fact more involved than simple pre-order. They know up front how many of what people want. Feeling annoyed at still not receiving my trays and counters from Wave 1 (despite an assurance in December that they'd shipped), I shared my thoughts in the comments to their facebook post about getting out orders"

Polonius wrote: I'm also upset that the last update mentioned stock outages. We're Kickstarter backers... You knew ahead of time how many of everything you needed!

Maybe a touch snarky, but I am, in fact, upset that something that's readily available in their webstore, that should have been delivered in July, hasn't arrived yet. The Response:

Mantic Games wrote:But not how many would go missing, be damaged, or backers whose orders didn't go through. Add a two month lead time for production and you get stock shortages.

Yes, mantic, there is no way on earth to know how many will be lost to damage. No way at all. I cannot think of a single way to avoid ordering exactly what you need, than crying when you run out. No wait, the opposite.

Polonius wrote:Oh my, is that the wrong answer. Guys, people have been waiting for months for things they paid for literally over a year ago. Anybody with any business sense knows that there are ways to estimate loss rates, that you either failed to do so or did so improperly is something you should be apologize for, not getting huffy and defensive about.

It's particularly ironic, given that the kickstarter model asks consumers to estimate what they will want well in advance, often with very hazy information about the product.

Still, my problem is that I pledged for a bunch of movement trays, which were a wave one item, yet still haven't received mine, or the counter set. I got an email saying they were shipped in December, but still I have no trays (or response to my emails). The invoice showed you ran out of them while packing the first wave, which seems really weird to me. This experience has greatly affected how I pledged in the Warpath kickstarter (just a buck so far).

They have my money, and have had it for about a year now. I may or may not get what I ordered. I think I'm done with Mantic kickstarters, and while I enjoy Kings of War, I think I'm more a fan of that than the company at this point. Which is sad to me.