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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Polonius, that is spectacularly poor customer service.

thanks, I've done a lot of work in retail and sales, my wife's family owns a restaurant and she spent two years in the hotel biz... I have pretty high expectations for good customer service. I still try to have pretty realistic expectations for minimal customer service, but this actually offended me, which is actually pretty impressive.

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not just being thin skinned.

At least we have a new Mantic meme!

Mantic: "You're nonsense!"

Maybe Mantic really is the opposite of GW. Instead of fans claiming to like GW while constantly complaining about, Mantic claims to like its customers while insulting them!

I kinda wish they'd just resculpt dino Blaine, do it in house in metal, and put an end to the whole debacle.

Heck, I wouldn't mind one that isn't completely hunched over sniffing the ground for clues all Scooby Doo style.

I'd happily trade out for MA blaine and a restic DB character or two. Nothing too pricey, but I don't want to feel ripped off, either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Polonius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Polonius, that is spectacularly poor customer service.

thanks, I've done a lot of work in retail and sales, my wife's family owns a restaurant and she spent two years in the hotel biz... I have pretty high expectations for good customer service. I still try to have pretty realistic expectations for minimal customer service, but this actually offended me, which is actually pretty impressive.

Thanks for letting me know that I'm not just being thin skinned.

I worked in a customer service-heavy retail position for years. I can't stand people giving the kind of service that would have gotten me fired.

At least we have a new Mantic meme!

Mantic: "You're nonsense!"

Maybe Mantic really is the opposite of GW. Instead of fans claiming to like GW while constantly complaining about, Mantic claims to like its customers while insulting them!

That's just crazy for a company that holds quarterly crowdsourcing drives.

Maybe if Rich would give us some idea of what's really happening instead of blowing us off we wouldn't have to call him on it. I can deal with waiting if I know there's a good reason for it. Looking at the difference between the KDM and Dreamforge campaigns vs the Prodos and Palladium campaigns, it's clear that clear, respectful communication makes a huge difference in the backer experience.

Yeah, there isn't really any excuse for the last email.

I'm sure it's not been pleasant to be Mantic Customer Service due to the constant KS churn, but maybe they should learn from that and take a break from KS before they start alienating their core customer base.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
I was on the verge of converting into KoW2 but I think I'll just look at other systems :/

Don't be dissuaded from trying the game, it is superb. You can always use models from another manufacturer if you prefer, but I'd highly recommend picking up the Rulebook and Uncharted Empires.

I second this. I've had great results ordering from their webstore (unfortunately backing a KS seems riskier). The rules are incredible, and the production value of the two rulebooks mentioned for KoW is really high!

Polonius, is that last comment about the meme actually from Rick Armstrong? Someone should definitely forward that on to Ronnie - that's simply inexcusable. You don't mock a customer who has been waiting on product from you for months, and been polite in asking about it. It obviously doesn't help them a a company and I can't believe he would stand for that if he knew about it.

If the last post wasn't a quote from him, then disregard this, of course.

Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.

Taaloc - That's why I added the caveat, looking above I see the quoted text about a meme is from BobtheInquisitor.

I don't think Polonius was attacking his integrity, though - I think he made a very fair statement that they had been leading him on, continually saying the pieces had arrived and would be sent when they were not. I don't doubt that Rich thought they would be - but clearly the customer service requests were not fulfilled, and some apology would usually be in order.

Stories like these have kept me from doing more than putting in small, simple pledges for Mantic campaigns... but I have had a fantastic experience with the webstore

 Taaloc wrote:
Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.

First of all, he did not respond in good faith. He claimed he had shipped it at one point and then later insisted that he would soon ship it. That's an obvious contradiction sure to erode customer confidence. Rich clearly never gave accurate information, or at least not enough accurate information to be meaningful. Responding in good faith would mean giving real information to the customer, unless all the information he had was "we don't know because the warehouse guy is Ronnie's drunkard brother-in-law". All the replies I have received from Rich were vague and completely unhelpful.

Second, customer service reps should never dismiss a complaint from a paying customer so flippantly. Polonius had an issue, Rich was aware of that, and Rich then called Polonius' response to his contradictory statements nonsense, a belittling term that would get a CSR fired here even if the customer didn't have a legitimate grievance, which Polonius had.

Third, the double insistence on tracking information and getting Polonius's contact information could, in the context of "nonsense", be taken as a barbed comment implying that Rich thinks Polonius is untrustworthy.

If a CSR feels that a customer has attacked his integrity, he should kick the ticket upstairs to a supervisor. It is not his job to defend his integrity, and if his coworkers are running his good name through the mud then attacking the customer for drawing the obvious conclusions will not clean it.

I don't see any contradiction. He stated he would arrange for it to be shipped and would send a reminder to the warehouse, was advised it was shipped, and then later on made a blanket statement that further stock had come in and would be sent out. Where is the contradiction apart from that he had been advised by the warehouse it had been sent previously and then updated regarding a later restock? If his information has, as stayed, come from the warehouse, then he has in good faith relayed that.

 Taaloc wrote:
I don't see any contradiction. He stated he would arrange for it to be shipped and would send a reminder to the warehouse, was advised it was shipped, and then later on made a blanket statement that further stock had come in and would be sent out. Where is the contradiction apart from that he had been advised by the warehouse it had been sent previously and then updated regarding a later restock? If his information has, as stayed, come from the warehouse, then he has in good faith relayed that.

I don't think he actively mislead me, but I was told three times that the items either had shipped, or were going to ship very soon. So while I am an empathetic person that understand that not everything a CSR is told is true, I'm also a paying customer that's been made promises that didn't pan out.

further, when they didn't pan out, I wasn't contacted. It's not like Rich (or anybody) ever sent me a note saying "Hey, I know we promised these, but they're out of stock. We'll let you know as soon as they come in."

Every interaction has been because I've emailed and asked. As a person that's been in a similar situation, I know that my product was likely on manufacturer back order, which means they need to wait for more to be made. Since they were laser cut wood, that's not something that scales very quickly, which means that Mantic, as a low profit wholesale customer, is likely last in the queue behind retail customers. (I'm going to go on a limb and assume that the manufacturer made enough to satisfy the initial order, but that Mantic screwed up and had to order more. If not, than Mantic is just dealing with a lousy manufacturer.)

I'm guessing that Mantic isn't fulfilling my order because they can't. However, I'm told every month when I email that "they'll be here soon" or "they came in on Friday!" Which means I'm stuck waiting.

So, while he may have been in good faith in relaying information, a simple look at the email chain would have indicated that he's been giving me multiple stories, and he had plenty of opportunities to explain what was going on. So yes, I do feel he wasn't being upfront.

Sad to hear of that Polonius, that response from him is just not acceptable.

Just checked the KOW 2 Kickstarters comments, apparently more Blaine's will be available in April (which year is not specified). That is what a backer has ( or claims to have) been told by Mantic. Such a shame that so many people are still missing items from the campaign.

Hey, I'm still missing half of my DBX pledge. So, I feel your pain Polonius. I got multiple emails saying they had shipped my missing stuff, never received anything. They also at one point said it was shipped and delivered to my brother's address, which was of course untrue. Then there's the fact that they sent me a bunch of KOW2 stuff I had never even pledged for with absolutely no explanation of why I received it. I contacted them again just looking for some kind of explanation since they never even addressed the missing goods forms I submitted. That was just thid week that I contacted them. I got a new guy named Zak. He said that the people who had been handling customer service and my previous messages were no longer there. The guy seemed genuinely concerned though about my missing stuff and said he would try to fix things. We'll see, but hopefully maybe Mantic will get its customer service under control?

 Taaloc wrote:
Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.

I'm British, and a big fan of mantic, but I too would be pretty annoyed if I got that kind of surly response from a customer service rep. I don't have the full view of the conversations, but to be honest it's irrelevant - you don't accuse your customers of talking nonsense if you want a successful business.

That said - Polonius, I hope you give mantic another go! As others have suggested, don't deny yourself a fantastic game because of a poor customer service rep!

I'm sure the more these issues are brought to the management's attention, the sooner they will have a fit for purpose customer service setup.

I'm still missing my whole DS pledge, but get this....I gave them my details per their request on KS on 11th Feb. Today, 10th Mar, I get a message back asking me to raise a support ticket (presumably on their new system).

So wait, after 2 months I now get to join the back of the queue?!

You know what is awful about all this? All the very valid complaints mean people aren't talking about what an excellent game KoW 2nd Ed is. :-p

I have been having a bear of a time setting up events and helping set up events all around the North-East US, and in part it is because "Mantic: Almost" is still a thing people hear wherever they go. If not for GW gifting Mantic a huge chunk of Fantasy's player-base, I would fear for how the game's community growth would be.

I eagerly look forward to Mantic sorting out more of this bad press, and likewise slowing down and really focusing on building a handful of game communities.

Dreadball was a non-starter here despite my constant efforts, and meanwhile Guild-Ball had no issues growing at a shocking pace. At a glance, I see a game with tons of official play support, neat tournament prize exclusive models, constant play-testing, errata, and communication with players, and all from a company even smaller than Mantic.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
You know what is awful about all this? All the very valid complaints mean people aren't talking about what an excellent game KoW 2nd Ed is. :-p

I have been having a bear of a time setting up events and helping set up events all around the North-East US, and in part it is because "Mantic: Almost" is still a thing people hear wherever they go. If not for GW gifting Mantic a huge chunk of Fantasy's player-base, I would fear for how the game's community growth would be.

I eagerly look forward to Mantic sorting out more of this bad press, and likewise slowing down and really focusing on building a handful of game communities.

Dreadball was a non-starter here despite my constant efforts, and meanwhile Guild-Ball had no issues growing at a shocking pace. At a glance, I see a game with tons of official play support, neat tournament prize exclusive models, constant play-testing, errata, and communication with players, and all from a company even smaller than Mantic.

See though.. that's just it.
It's not just about customer service. I'm not going to set off on a bash-fest.. but they've made decisions to release things, not release things, re-release things, and stop releasing things that have all worked against them. Whether it's models that needed the sculpt QC'd, shipments that needed the contents checked, games that weren't ready for print, games that spent too long getting ready for print, games that went to print but are no longer supported.. When they get it right.. it's pretty good to really good. When they get it wrong, it's cringeworthy. Many of us have been in this hobby for decades. I've seen so many companies come and go that I wish had the opportunities Mantic has been afforded. It's almost criminal (in some instances I'm not convinced it isn't actually).

I think there is a lot of talk about how awesome KoW 2nd edition is! It's certainly got a TON of traction since the end of WHFB, which might be part of why they're snowed under...

Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!

It's interesting that you mention Guild Ball, NewTruth - in our FLGS Guild Ball and KoW are the two "new games" folks are picking up . Guild Ball certainly has some things nailed down better, but then again they're aiming at quite a different market - more of the Warmachine than the GW crowd.

In my area, Mantic has actually been selling very well and there's apparently enough people playing KOW that there is a league being made. I suspect this is because most of those peopke never backed any of the Kickstarters though. Up until really about December, the only things carried around here was GW. Once the FLGS started carrying Frostgrave at my brother's suggestion, they finally started trying to carry other games. As it turned out, the local community was very receptive to playing other stuff and Mantic proved to be very popular with its reasonably priced models.

 RiTides wrote:
I think there is a lot of talk about how awesome KoW 2nd edition is! It's certainly got a TON of traction since the end of WHFB, which might be part of why they're snowed under...

Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!

It's interesting that you mention Guild Ball, NewTruth - in our FLGS Guild Ball and KoW are the two "new games" folks are picking up . Guild Ball certainly has some things nailed down better, but then again they're aiming at quite a different market - more of the Warmachine than the GW crowd.

Oh don't get me wrong, KoW is doing well, and deservedly so, but I know myself and a few other groups are hustling to turn this into something enduring. The game is terrific, and people who play it, tend to love it and keep playing it.

I only mention Guild Ball as a counter-point to things I similarly loved like Dreadball, that SHOULD have endured, and was good enough to stick... but instead was a still-birth.

Half the products, and twice the support would do wonders for Mantic, but I think they might've grown (in their minds) too big, too quickly, thanks to early-days Kickstarter, and are too removed from the grind of picking a couple core products, and supporting the hell out of it until you've built your name around it.

Listen... I HATE to say this, but I had a few club members scoff at me... literally laugh when I asked if we would be supporting The Walking Dead. Its just assumed by far too many folks that it will be unsupported or half-baked... and that assumption, while awful, and not necessarily fair, is now kind of based on precedent,

I think saying it's based on precedent precludes you from being able to say it's unfair. Look, they've pulled the plug on what.. two games now? MA and DB? Whatever happened to Dwarven King's Hold or Pandora? Hm..

 Wafflecakes wrote:


That said - Polonius, I hope you give mantic another go! As others have suggested, don't deny yourself a fantastic game because of a poor customer service rep!

I'm sure the more these issues are brought to the management's attention, the sooner they will have a fit for purpose customer service setup.

Oh, I'm all in on kings of war! Feel free to check out my ogre painting blog

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675393.page.

I think I'll pass on buying products directly, and certainly no more Kickstarters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:
I think saying it's based on precedent precludes you from being able to say it's unfair. Look, they've pulled the plug on what.. two games now? MA and DB? Whatever happened to Dwarven King's Hold or Pandora? Hm..

To be fair, dreadball is, if anything, too complete. There's a shocking amount of content for that game. Pandora and Dwarf Kings Hold were self contained board games. I actually like project Pandora: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/446607.page

Yeah, I knew them releasing THAT many teams for the KS was not leaving them much design space. So far, it's looked like their decision when they HAVE run out of design space is to can the project. For me.. it makes their philosophy feel very money-grabby. Especially since the work most people seem pleased with is being done by unpaid staffers.

 RiTides wrote:

Regarding the memes, I really wish people would stop that and be more direct - it would be better for everyone involved!

If this is aimed at me, please explain what you mean by direct. I submitted tickets and never heard back. I sent messages through KS. I have emailed Rich numerous times, as well as Dave and Chris and Sarah. I've posted on their facebook page. By the time it comes up on Dakka, I've spent so much time and energy trying to sort this out already that the snark just leaks out somehow. Posting here might, just might, get someone to move on my ticket or at least spill the beans about what the real hold up is. (Matt Gilbert has been responsive, but does not seem to be at the center of things.) Posting here also warns future Mantic customers of what they might have to deal with and gives them a clearer idea of what to expect from the next kickstarter. From my perspective, it would be better for new customers to be warned and for current customers to pool their knowledge in order to comprehend the unpleasant situations many of us are in. Memes are just an expression of shared frustration and allow us to vent through bitter laughter what we might otherwise spew in anger.

 Taaloc wrote:
Hold on, I don't see any insult or mockery going on here. Rich was defending his own position where he had responded in good faith with the information he had, and was then accused of not being up front. Maybe customer service culture is different here from the US but I don't see that he made any insult or personal attack, merely commented on a customer's statement that attacked his integrity personally.

You need to read the Kickstarter comments section then. He was calling people liars and insinuating that there was a large number of false missing item claims all the way up to when Mantic realized that they "didn't lose" 200 backer orders due to a problem with their computer system. At that point he got quiet, no apologies, just quiet.

 MLaw wrote:
Yeah, I knew them releasing THAT many teams for the KS was not leaving them much design space. So far, it's looked like their decision when they HAVE run out of design space is to can the project. For me.. it makes their philosophy feel very money-grabby. Especially since the work most people seem pleased with is being done by unpaid staffers.

I really like the diversity of the Dreadball range. Mantic has put out a ton of interesting aliens and humans under Dreadball/X. I'm even excited about playing the game...someday...because it looks fun and has great flavor. A conversion kit or rulebook to use the mini teams as superheroes or sci fi pirates or something would breathe some life back into the the DB/X line's sales.


It's not like Mantic has to pay anyone to write the rules.

Bob - I'm all for posting shared experiences and learning from it! What I don't like is making fun of companies relentlessly - it really makes it hard for them to change perspectives even when they do improve on things, and it makes threads about them less fun for me to read as a fan. Finally, it disincentives direct company interaction on the forum... we've chased off a fair few company representatives (of all stripes ) on Dakka.

Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't share bad experiences, just that doing so straightforwardly and genuinely is a lot more effective than posting "Mantic - Almost" or "Mantic - Nonsense" or the like.

I've certainly had, and posted, some rough experiences with Mantic - the Dreadball team I pledged for and was unhappy with was most notable. But there have been some really good experiences, too - the wrecked car scenery I pledged for for a friend from Mars Attacks (really great quality!), the lesser obsidian golems I got a bucketload of, and now the literally awesome rulebooks for KoW2 - I own each in several forms now

I don't want anyone not to post a bad experience, but I think relentlessly "joking" just isn't that funny, and in some ways counterproductive - it makes a lot of the posts here more "noise" than substance, and easier for the company (and even neutral readers / posters) to ignore.

That's my case, at least - hope it makes sense

I didnt back the latest KS and one of the reasons was because of Mantics ineptitude when dealing with customers (including myself)

I will happily buy their product/games from a middle man but I will never deal direct with mantic again.

KoW2 is an awesome game, and mantic do make some awesome products but their churn and burn KS philosophy is flawed.

 Compel wrote:
Not heard anything about missing gamers editions.

But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.

What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.

Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.

This is false. New shipment of Blaine is in, and it's being dealt with. Mine is coming shortly. Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions? Shortly after Matt got involved with my missing pledge, it was taken care of. I trust him.

And by "taken care of", I mean I have it in hand. Minus Uncharted Empires and Blaine which are coming together shortly. I've received all of the rest. So yes. I have faith in Matt.

Yeah, this has been a full page of whining I didn't need to read. One post would have been enough, but on and on and in multiple threads? There's ''warning'' people about Mantic's QC and then there's disrupting threads with a personal beef.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Not heard anything about missing gamers editions.

But you are 100% certainly NOT going to get your missing Blaine on dionsaur. For whatever crazy reason, Mantic are unable to fufill that for people who they missed out the first time round. However, you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first.

What will then (probably) happen is that mantic will ask you if you would prefer a substitute similarly sized miniature, and what one.

Personally, if I was affected by this mistake (fortunately, I wasn't, but a couple of my mates were), I would have found it to be as big a farce as the Adventurers Companion screw up.

This is false. New shipment of Blaine is in, and it's being dealt with. Mine is coming shortly. Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions? Shortly after Matt got involved with my missing pledge, it was taken care of. I trust him.

And by "taken care of", I mean I have it in hand. Minus Uncharted Empires and Blaine which are coming together shortly. I've received all of the rest. So yes. I have faith in Matt.

It's not "false" if it's what my mates and I have personally experienced (please note that, 'you should get that personally confirmed from mantic first' bit).

Well, that's good news, it seems in the month or so since they told my mates they were unable to replace their Blaines they've changed track. - If that's true, of course. (I'll put myself under, "I'll believe it when I see it, myself.") I imagine my mates are going to end up being rather peeved to find out that they've been short changed on the Blaine.