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 NTRabbit wrote:

And by that stage it's gone well past the amount of time and resource I'm willing to invest just to assemble one solitary mini. Metal is just almost a total non starter with me in 28mm, and I can't imagine a world of minis before resin or plastic became things, where there was no choice but to put up with it.

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

Multipart metals are hit and miss. With way too many misses.

I have learned that lesson with Napoleonics: single piece metals from a good sculptor (Perry, Front Rank, etc) are infinitely superior to multipart plastics.

However, the best compromise has been with Warlord plastics - usually 3 pieces - body, backpack, and choice of head.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have learned that lesson with Napoleonics: single piece metals from a good sculptor (Perry, Front Rank, etc) are infinitely superior to multipart plastics.

However, the best compromise has been with Warlord plastics - usually 3 pieces - body, backpack, and choice of head.

Depends on genre and period. Blackpowder warfare uses a bunch of marching poses, so single or 3 piece is desirable. Medievals are more dynamic and thus posabillity is key.

I prefer mono-pose (or nearly so, only with equipment or "greeble" choices, like newer GW kits) as well. It's simply not possible to get the same dynamism from a multi-pose kit. It's not often you see a multi-pose sculpture in a museum that's one reason why I love Oldhammer, everything was mono-pose and each sculpt was completely unique. It's also why I love newer masters of mono-pose stuff like Hasslefree, Kingdom Death, and others.

I hate those new Monopose stuff from GW.

they look more dynamic, but only as small scale skirmish models.
having only 5 different ones, and limited general model pose (the same 5 dynamic poses on all models across al factions) is ok if there are only 10-20 models on the table.

For good looking "not Napoleonic marching in line" regiments I prefer pose able stuff.

something like the Perry plastics is enough

 Azazelx wrote:

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

But generally they are quite flat and 2d.

Agreed on the great sculpts though when done right.

 kodos wrote:

something like the Perry plastics is enough

To be honest, that's akin to saying perfection is enough. Perry's have the right mix of obvious go to together well options and with a bit of fidgeting, massive flexibility. Track down LAF's Captain Blood threads for examples.

I have enough Perry models at home (Napoleonic, DAK, WotR) and mixed/converted them with the stuff from other companies.

their solution of "semi" dynamic poses with free posable and optional parts (arms, weapons, heads etc) is the best solution for R&F systems.
GW's monopose does not work for that because not only the models can be build in only one way (without the use of GS and good modelling skills) but the arrangement in the unit had no variation (dark elves witches can only be put in one order next to each other and only allow 5 in a row without multibasing) and that made all regiment identical and looking like the first plastic regiments in the late 90's.

this would be acceptable if the were cheap, but not for a premium price.

It works for small skirmish systems, like BB.
The poses are still over the top for some models but having identical models twice is not a problem

on the other hand, fully pose able models with separate body, legs, arms, hands etc like the AoW dwarfs are too much for R&F, but work well for Skirmish games (like SAGA) were the GW models look cheap and the army has no variation (60 models, all with the same basic pose and only 5 different models)

The Mantic Elves etc are in the same style as the Perry models and if they would add upgrade sprues or resin upgrades with weapons it work out better than just make new metal or restic monopose models.

Enforcer are a also well done and from the model design superior to GW's Space Marine range

If I have an army, I want to have some variation on the models
if each regiment in KoW looks identical the premium GW Monopose models are not worth it, not matter if the 5 models on the sprue look better.
Also for a mass skirmish game I want each unit to have its unique look and not just a variation of the same 5 dynamic poses on 60 models.

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

But generally they are quite flat and 2d.

Flatter than a multipart plastic, yes. But how flat and 2d is very much based on the sculptor's skill and understanding of the medium, along with the ability of the casters. Lots of models out there that have plenty of movement and "3d" in them...

Agreed on the great sculpts though when done right.

Nod.

 Azazelx wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

But generally they are quite flat and 2d.

Flatter than a multipart plastic, yes. But how flat and 2d is very much based on the sculptor's skill and understanding of the medium, along with the ability of the casters. Lots of models out there that have plenty of movement and "3d" in them...

Even that's not necessarily true. The recent Blood and Plunder miniatures are all single piece metals (with the exception of a couple characters with a separate arm) and are more dynamically posed and have greater detail (no undercuts) than the vast majority of similarly sized multipart plastics. Plus, almost no cleanup and no prep time



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 kodos wrote:
I hate those new Monopose stuff from GW.

they look more dynamic, but only as small scale skirmish models.
having only 5 different ones, and limited general model pose (the same 5 dynamic poses on all models across al factions) is ok if there are only 10-20 models on the table.

Depends on the kit. For example, I have over 20 Putrid Blightkings and none are the same. The 5-model kit itself has 13 official poses thanks to the overabundance of extra parts. Each body has two completely different ways to be assembled (three for each of the command models) And that's not even including converting.

 Azazelx wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

But generally they are quite flat and 2d.

Flatter than a multipart plastic, yes. But how flat and 2d is very much based on the sculptor's skill and understanding of the medium, along with the ability of the casters. Lots of models out there that have plenty of movement and "3d" in them...

And on the skill of the mold maker -

This is a one piece model - and the moldline follows along the edges of both weapons - the mold was itself a piece of art.

The Auld Grump

 judgedoug wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Quality, well-cast single-piece metals are a thing of beauty. Much easier to prep and paint than mutipart plastics or resin.

But generally they are quite flat and 2d.

Flatter than a multipart plastic, yes. But how flat and 2d is very much based on the sculptor's skill and understanding of the medium, along with the ability of the casters. Lots of models out there that have plenty of movement and "3d" in them...

Even that's not necessarily true. The recent Blood and Plunder miniatures are all single piece metals (with the exception of a couple characters with a separate arm) and are more dynamically posed and have greater detail (no undercuts) than the vast majority of similarly sized multipart plastics. Plus, almost no cleanup and no prep time

Just emphasising my point even further, Doug. But those are amongst the best out there, and aren't typical - just as the Stonehaven ones (much as I like them) are extra-flat.



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 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Flatter than a multipart plastic, yes. But how flat and 2d is very much based on the sculptor's skill and understanding of the medium, along with the ability of the casters. Lots of models out there that have plenty of movement and "3d" in them...

And on the skill of the mold maker -

Spoiler:

This is a one piece model - and the moldline follows along the edges of both weapons - the mold was itself a piece of art.

The Auld Grump

Indeed. I mentally considered the mould makers to be one and the same as the casters - the casters being an entity rather than just the guys who pour, though as you correctly point out, this isn't nearly always the case.

 judgedoug wrote:

Depends on the kit. For example, I have over 20 Putrid Blightkings and none are the same. The 5-model kit itself has 13 official poses thanks to the overabundance of extra parts. Each body has two completely different ways to be assembled (three for each of the command models) And that's not even including converting.

True, Blightkings are a good kit but expensive and the exception to the rule as there are no other new kits with the same possibilities.

 kodos wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Depends on the kit. For example, I have over 20 Putrid Blightkings and none are the same. The 5-model kit itself has 13 official poses thanks to the overabundance of extra parts. Each body has two completely different ways to be assembled (three for each of the command models) And that's not even including converting.

True, Blightkings are a good kit but expensive and the exception to the rule as there are no other new kits with the same possibilities.

Not at all, pretty much all Warhammer infantry kits in the last several years are like this, from Stormcast Liberators to Khorne dudes, etc. All models can be assembled in minimum of 2 ways and then a third way for command. Since they are designed digitally, this makes their possible poses a hell of a lot more natural than traditional "marionette" multi-pose/multi-option models. It's quite brilliant as "5 models" often means 13+ poses that all look better than a traditional 5 multi-part-option model kit.

I also thought they were expensive until I got a kit, and realized that the detail and size of them puts them better than and cheaper than many similarly sized resin kits (or even metal, such as Heresy monsters). And now that GW is actually lowering prices...

 judgedoug wrote:


Not at all, pretty much all Warhammer infantry kits in the last several years are like this, from Stormcast Liberators to Khorne dudes, etc. All models can be assembled in minimum of 2 ways and then a third way for command. Since they are designed digitally, this makes their possible poses a hell of a lot more natural than traditional "marionette" multi-pose/multi-option models. It's quite brilliant as "5 models" often means 13+ poses that all look better than a traditional 5 multi-part-option model kit.

Then you got different kits than me, because mine are all just the Monopose stuff with the only option is 1 unit Leader and different weapons
Legs/arms are all fixed to one pose if you don't use a knife and GreenStuff.
especially the new Khorne and Stormcast stuff.
talking about the Liberators, even on the promo pics even the 5 dudes have only 2 different pose
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/99020218001_Liberatorsbundle01.jpg

And now the finally lower their prices, because I guess super expensive monopose models did not sell well

 kodos wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:


Not at all, pretty much all Warhammer infantry kits in the last several years are like this, from Stormcast Liberators to Khorne dudes, etc. All models can be assembled in minimum of 2 ways and then a third way for command. Since they are designed digitally, this makes their possible poses a hell of a lot more natural than traditional "marionette" multi-pose/multi-option models. It's quite brilliant as "5 models" often means 13+ poses that all look better than a traditional 5 multi-part-option model kit.

Then you got different kits than me, because mine are all just the Monopose stuff with the only option is 1 unit Leader and different weapons
Legs/arms are all fixed to one pose if you don't use a knife and GreenStuff.
especially the new Khorne and Stormcast stuff.
talking about the Liberators, even on the promo pics even the 5 dudes have only 2 different pose
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/99020218001_Liberatorsbundle01.jpg

And now the finally lower their prices, because I guess super expensive monopose models did not sell well

Massive increase of profits tell a different story but blah blah blah wrong thread GW is wrong if they sell their models for price A and they are wrong if they lower them to price B blah blah

Not gonna get drawn into some argument about preferences. I must have different kits than you, as mine are all fairly different from each other once I assembled them. The new Tzaangors are even better.

From the Mantic Blog: https://manticblog.com/2017/02/28/mantic-games-resin-miniatures/

Render of a upcoming tree-herder:


and resin casts of something. (not sure of what exactly)

 Zywus wrote:

Spoiler:

and resin casts of something. (not sure of what exactly)

Looks like either something for their salamander or riverguard range. Both are fine by me .

Thuul Mythican less tentacle-face

Dunno if it's been said, but for those curious about the release date for the missing individual Trident Realm units from the big boxes, like the Leviathan's Bane, somebody asked on the Mantic forum last Friday, and MG itself answered:

"Pre-order next week [i.e. this one], shipping at the end of March. Just getting the TWD stuff out of the way this week first."

- Salvage

I'd buy the thules in resin. The tree herder doesn't do much for me, but the final pose could make all the difference. I'm a big fan of Mantic's recent plastics, so I hope they keep producing them.


Not to get too off topic, but when and how did GW lower prices? Can someone please point me to the specific thread discussing this?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'd buy the thules in resin. The tree herder doesn't do much for me, but the final pose could make all the difference. I'm a big fan of Mantic's recent plastics, so I hope they keep producing them.

The salamander and Naiad kits are excellent IMO (their devil kits are also of the same quality). Keeping fingers crossed for more. A reviewer on youtube indirectly said that their quality is something that gw would have produced 6-7 years ago, but I disagree. They've made a massive jump with them.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Not to get too off topic, but when and how did GW lower prices? Can someone please point me to the specific thread discussing this?

They repackaged some of their stormcast kits - effectively lowered the model/price ratio. The new packaging is more expensive though so you end up giving them more money

The Thuul are already in Resin on the shop page
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/trident-realm-of-neritica/product/thuul-mythican.html
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/trident-realm-of-neritica/product/thuul-troop.html

Nice article on the blog and love the change

 judgedoug wrote:

must have different kits than you, as mine are all fairly different from each other once I assembled them. The new Tzaangors are even better.

if the those kits regarding the possibilities and poses, than you would love the new Mantic stuff.
Abyssals (Succubi), Elves and the SciFi plastics are a modellers dream regarding poses and possibilities in variation

 judgedoug wrote:

Massive increase of profits tell a different story but blah blah blah wrong thread GW is wrong if they sell their models for price A and they are wrong if they lower them to price B blah blah

So have internal sources or how to you know from an overall increase of profit that 1 specific box is selling well
and I never said that I don't like the reduce in price, just that I am not surprised because I cannot believe a lot of people bought a lot of them a lot of the Liberrators for the original price (not if they could got the whole Sigmarine part of the starter Box for the same price)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Not to get too off topic, but when and how did GW lower prices? Can someone please point me to the specific thread discussing this?

The Stormcast Boxes were changed from 5 for 40€ (compared to 40€ you can get the Starter Box containing 20 Stormcast for 40) to 10 for 50€.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Not to get too off topic, but when and how did GW lower prices? Can someone please point me to the specific thread discussing this?

Just new releases. The Start Collecting boxes released in the last year or so have had significant (25-40%) savings and they are repackaging previously released units at a big discount. 5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

The start collecting boxes seem much more tempting than paying $60 for ten stormcasts. Still, that's a nice trend that I would love to see pick up in speed.


As for Mantic, any word on their redone Men at Arms? There seem to be a number of plastic fantasy troops coming out soon, so I hope Mantic make it to the market before all the money is spent.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
As for Mantic, any word on their redone Men at Arms? There seem to be a number of plastic fantasy troops coming out soon, so I hope Mantic make it to the market before all the money is spent.

I think they're supposed to be released around the summer campaign, so June/July?

The Naiad Centurion Wyrmrider* is up for pre-order and it's resin. 18 pounds and $30...is that the correct conversion rate? And only one Mantic point?? Anyway, it looks pretty sweet.




*Not to be confused with the frat pledge with the same nickname.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The Naiad Centurion Wyrmrider* is up for pre-order and it's resin. 18 pounds and $30...is that the correct conversion rate? And only one Mantic point?? Anyway, it looks pretty sweet.

Oh nooo onono. Mantic is definitely using GW's conversion rates - aka, totally invented and fake ones. . £18 is $22. Definitely order from a UK retailer that offers discounts and cheap/free shipping.

Mantic adds a shipping fee into the conversions
you can also order in pound put will pay the same because they charge more fore shipping

The scales on the wyrm... aren't scales. They're wide, even lines pressed (or possibly printed) into rough scale shapes on a smooth tube. They're treated like some kind of textured wallpaper, not individual 3D objects, so that you get perfectly smooth, non-overlapping snake scales, and end up with half a scale where the upper scales meet the belly scales. Not to mention the contours represent oversized comedy preschool scales.

It's not something that's apparent at first glance on the customer side of things, maybe, what with gaming mini tropes and so on, and not high on the list of priorities; but on the other side it comes across as ignorant and lazy on the part of the sculptor - and whoever else at Mantic greenlighted it. It's almost a throwback to the original drakons.

Much as I grouse and moan about GW and AoS, I'm sitting here looking at the components of the Aquilor gryph-charger in my hand. Specifically the little, natural-looking details on the forelimbs - the tiny reticulate scales of the feet and the gradient of feathers at the elbows. Maybe digitally sculpted but not impossible in putty either. I might be comparing premium minis to budget, here, but some Mantic critters could use just a drop or two of that attention. It's not difficult - the internet's full of pics of things, including snakes.

The wyrmrider... looks alright, from what I can see. There's that Mantic way of painting metallics that turns overfiligreed armour into a beige blob. (D'you think it's meant to be brass armour, or is that meant to be verdigris all over gold?)

 Vermis wrote:
The scales on the wyrm... aren't scales. They're wide, even lines pressed (or possibly printed) into rough scale shapes on a smooth tube. They're treated like some kind of textured wallpaper, not individual 3D objects, so that you get perfectly smooth, non-overlapping snake scales, and end up with half a scale where the upper scales meet the belly scales. Not to mention the contours represent oversized comedy preschool scales.

It's not something that's apparent at first glance on the customer side of things, maybe, what with gaming mini tropes and so on, and not high on the list of priorities; but on the other side it comes across as ignorant and lazy on the part of the sculptor - and whoever else at Mantic greenlighted it. It's almost a throwback to the original drakons.

Much as I grouse and moan about GW and AoS, I'm sitting here looking at the components of the Aquilor gryph-charger in my hand. Specifically the little, natural-looking details on the forelimbs - the tiny reticulate scales of the feet and the gradient of feathers at the elbows. Maybe digitally sculpted but not impossible in putty either. I might be comparing premium minis to budget, here, but some Mantic critters could use just a drop or two of that attention. It's not difficult - the internet's full of pics of things, including snakes.

The wyrmrider... looks alright, from what I can see. There's that Mantic way of painting metallics that turns overfiligreed armour into a beige blob. (D'you think it's meant to be brass armour, or is that meant to be verdigris all over gold?)

So, you're suggesting I'm easily pleased by a long, textured tube?


I don't suppose the scales would work as some kind of armor over smooth eel skin, like a Snork take on Dragon Princes of Caledor? Otherwise use it as in-universe cosplay for Warpath?