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 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

 Mymearan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

Except there not huge models, large certainly but there mostly detail free and simplistic plus $6.20 for line troops still sucks.

They still work out more than gold swords and witch elves the previous platnium standard for GW overcharging.

Perhaps the discussion of just how many sigmarines for 60$ is a great deal could be better had in another thread?

Personally I wouldn't throw 60$ after those models even If I got a bucketful of them, but that hardly has anything to do with Mantic, does it?

 Mymearan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

It really isn't. This is a post-Bones, easy-HIPs world we live in now.

 Mymearan wrote:

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

paying 6$ for something that is worth 1$ and can be bought for 3$ or less via the starter set is not great
it is still cheaper to buy the Sigmarine halve of the starter set (or get the whole starter and sell the Khorne stuff) than to get the standard units on their own

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

It really isn't. This is a post-Bones, easy-HIPs world we live in now.

Fair enough.

Zywus wrote:Perhaps the discussion of just how many sigmarines for 60$ is a great deal could be better had in another thread?

Personally I wouldn't throw 60$ after those models even If I got a bucketful of them, but that hardly has anything to do with Mantic, does it?

Very sorry about that!

 Zywus wrote:
Perhaps the discussion of just how many sigmarines for 60$ is a great deal could be better had in another thread?

Personally I wouldn't throw 60$ after those models even If I got a bucketful of them, but that hardly has anything to do with Mantic, does it?

Apparently this needs repeating.

 Mymearan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

you're knee-deep in Mantic territory right now, where these models are worth $10 EACH

 judgedoug wrote:

you're knee-deep in Mantic territory right now, where these models are worth $10 EACH

Spoiler:

It's not entirely fair slapping the mantic "noob" (no offense, man) with the picture of the beefed up trolls with no additional info . To be honest they're not much taller (though they're broader) than a stormcast.

 CoreCommander wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

you're knee-deep in Mantic territory right now, where these models are worth $10 EACH

Spoiler:

It's not entirely fair slapping the mantic "noob" (no offense, man) with the picture of the beefed up trolls with no additional info . To be honest they're not much taller (though they're broader) than a stormcast.

Was about to chime in as well. I've seen those in the flesh and I wouldn't hold them up as anything better than the clumps they are. They're the same height as a stormcast and far more limited.

*edit* Realized my sarcasm detector failed on Judgedoug.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

5 models for $50 are now 10 models for $62. It's pretty great.

Which is only pretty great if you take their previous prices as a baseline.
10 models for $62 isn't pretty great. It's just an improvement over their previous prices.

10 huge models on 40mm bases for $6.2 per model isn't pretty great? Okay then.

you're knee-deep in Mantic territory right now, where these models are worth $10 EACH

Still cheaper than the horror that is the pumbagor at 24$ or the Minotaur's at 50$ and then there are the monkey rats,monkey elves and let us not forget that it was only a few years ago that they took insane clown posse nagash off sale.
Both company's have some real stinkers but GW tend to double down by there most expensive miniatures being some of the ugliest.

Now at the risk of actually providing something at least a little on topic I just received my recent Mantic order I made to check out the new resins. They at first glance look great although they are quite delicate looking so time will tell how we there resin holds up to the rigours of transport.
They have nice detail and no issues with the casts themselves but while I understand that the Thull only exist due to being cast in resin and I do like them, I kinda wish they had lead with the wyrm captain or another model with a bit more of the wow factor so to speak rather than a line infantry unit.

I took some photos but I am on my Fire and had not realised how naff the camera is so I will take some more pics on my phone and add them.

Just a quick photo as I said I would.

So does anyone have the recently released Trident Realms figures (Riverguard, Water Elementals etc) assembled yet? And if so, are you satisfied with them?

SeanDrake wrote:
Still cheaper than the horror that is the pumbagor at 24$ or the Minotaur's at 50$ and then there are the monkey rats,monkey elves and let us not forget that it was only a few years ago that they took insane clown posse nagash off sale.
Both company's have some real stinkers but GW tend to double down by there most expensive miniatures being some of the ugliest.

Oh no doubt, the minotaurs are laughably bad as are the skaven action figure things and a dozen other kits GW makes that are stupidly bad. Stormcast ain't one of 'em. Even at the original price point, Liberators for 10 bucks apiece, are still better engineered plastic kits than anything Mantic offers and are still an insane value for money (at ten bucks apiece, let alone six bucks apiece, they are the same size as other companies' resin and metal offerings that are over twice the price). Hell, the last 18months of GW releases have been some of the best in the company's history. The entire Tzeentch line is a masterpiece. This coming from a dude who has spent more money on Mierce in the last few years than on utility bills... and who owns several hundred Mantic Orcs and Goblins, fully painted.

OMG I loved the concepts for the little octomen but not with a resin support bar across the tentacles. That's a nightmare evening rife with frustration.

if they are good or not is a personal opinion
I don't like the aesthetic of the new Tzeentch stuff while Stormcast are ok.
Not as Sigmarines in AoS (Space Marines in Fantasy is stupid), but they fit will as a conversion basis for Archaens in A Fantastic SAGA (thats why I have them here and can compare them to the rest)

the general quality of the new GW kits is not better than the old ones or plastic kits of other companies (specially the new Warpath Stuff from Mantic)

from a design point of view they are average and just have a lot of bits instead of real variation (regarding poses and build).

 judgedoug wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Still cheaper than the horror that is the pumbagor at 24$ or the Minotaur's at 50$ and then there are the monkey rats,monkey elves and let us not forget that it was only a few years ago that they took insane clown posse nagash off sale.
Both company's have some real stinkers but GW tend to double down by there most expensive miniatures being some of the ugliest.

Oh no doubt, the minotaurs are laughably bad as are the skaven action figure things and a dozen other kits GW makes that are stupidly bad. Stormcast ain't one of 'em. Even at the original price point, Liberators for 10 bucks apiece, are still better engineered plastic kits than anything Mantic offers and are still an insane value for money (at ten bucks apiece, let alone six bucks apiece, they are the same size as other companies' resin and metal offerings that are over twice the price). Hell, the last 18months of GW releases have been some of the best in the company's history. The entire Tzeentch line is a masterpiece. This coming from a dude who has spent more money on Mierce in the last few years than on utility bills... and who owns several hundred Mantic Orcs and Goblins, fully painted.

OMG I loved the concepts for the little octomen but not with a resin support bar across the tentacles. That's a nightmare evening rife with frustration.

While I, too, love the stormcast eternals (at least the starter set versions, as I only own those), $10 bucks apiece is a piece too far. Three or four dollars each (depending on the unit and pose) just happens to be the ceiling for me for pretty much any plastic noncharacter minis. I think we approach minis differently, you and I. The more minis I already own, the better value per dollar a miniature needs to be for me to buy it. Mantic is hitting the ratio by reducing the prices as much as by increasing the quality of their minis. GW still prices most of their minis out of my shopping cart.

And for the love of god, stop giving the GW minotaurs such a bad rap! There's a thing they were aiming for that was unconventional, and they nailed it. They made some unpopular choices, but they nailed it. Leave GW minotaurs alone!

 kodos wrote:
the general quality of the new GW kits is not better than the old ones or plastic kits of other companies (specially the new Warpath Stuff from Mantic)

that's just straight up false. Mantic makes pretty alright plastics, and of course, who knows what's coming next now that they're having to swtich to another factory. They're good for the price. The parts fits are often awkward (Forge Father torsos, jfc). Better quality than Victrix (mold line city), not as good as Renedra (esp Perry)- except for the Renedra kits they already made, like the zombos and ghouls. Tooling is not as precise as GW or WGF. To be honest I wish Mantic would contract with WGF for tooling, like DFG and Wyrd and KD are doing. But GW plastics engineering is literally generations ahead of Mantic's.

 kodos wrote:
if they are good or not is a personal opinion
Not as Sigmarines in AoS (Space Marines in Fantasy is stupid),

The problem is that my respect for your opinion begins and ends with that, unfortunately.
I've not understood this weird bigotry that people have for Stormcast Eternals - it requires intense logical twists to ignore the entirety of the Chaos pantheon existing simultaneously in two of GW's IPs, let alone the hundreds of crossover models they've been doing since the mid/late 1980's, to be faux-apalled at Stormcast Eternals being "Space Marines in Fantasy". That requires a huge amount of effort to ignore that Space Marines are ALREADY Future Fantasy Space Knights with Guns From 2000AD Comics. The point where you should start is: Space Marines are stupid. Future Fantasy Space Knights are stupid. Knights in SPAAAAAACE is stupid. Stormcast Eternals are big lightning-powered Fantasy Warriors, not Fantasy Space Knights In Space But Now Back In Fantasy (and hey, btw, thanks Mantic, for making Enforcers, my favorite 28mm sci fi figs on the market)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
While I, too, love the stormcast eternals (at least the starter set versions, as I only own those), $10 bucks apiece is a piece too far. Three or four dollars each (depending on the unit and pose) just happens to be the ceiling for me for pretty much any plastic noncharacter minis. I think we approach minis differently, you and I. The more minis I already own, the better value per dollar a miniature needs to be for me to buy it. Mantic is hitting the ratio by reducing the prices as much as by increasing the quality of their minis. GW still prices most of their minis out of my shopping cart.

See, I already own a ton of minis, like you. So therefore new minis I buy need to stand out. I mean, I'm happy paying about a buck apiece for monopose single piece (or very close to single, like, three piece) plastics for my Napoleonics, etc. Gosh, even less for Victrix, like less than 50 cents each in some cases. But despite my affinity for hundreds - well, let's be honest - thousands of plastic historical minis I own, I also have no problem setting aside my general hatred for GW circa 2008-2015. They've made a lot of great moves recently especially in the design department. Every AOS plastics release is an engineering marvel. I still cannot comprehend how some of the single piece plastic characters were made due to the insanely genius tooling. And because of that, I've bought more GW in the last 18 months than I had in the previous 15 years and yeah, most of GW's stuff is not worth MSRP - but let's not kid ourselves, nothing is worth MSRP. The aforementioned Mantic trolls, and gosh, most of the restic/pvc stuff (except the pretty great Gore riders) - are worth basically nothing. So, yeah, highly complex, well engineered, fantastic models, like, say, my giant Nurgle Rotbringers army, totally worth the price I paid. I have no upper limit when it comes to the quality of models, whether it's Mierce or GW, tbh.

The Mantic Trolls really are worth nothing or less. Like the Men at Arms, they probably harm Mantic's reputation more every time a new customer accidentally buys a box.

I've bought a lot of Mantic stuff over the last couple of years, but almost never at full price, so perhaps they need a readjustment there. The Enforcer Peacekeepers, GCPS troops and Asterian Marionettes might be worth MSRP... unless it went up again with that BS exchange rate. Their boardgame plastic, however, seems to have the best potential. They should make larger units from that material, and price them accordingly, taking advantage of the material's strengths and economy of scale the way Bones did with all of their Giants and dragons. Resculped Drakon that looked as good and fit as well as Jetbike Blaine? Yes, please.

I would play the devil's advocate for a second..
I'm also in the camp of owning a ton of models. When I see those Mantic trolls.. I really don't see Mantic Trolls. I see an armature or conversion fodder. The construction and massive lack of detail means they're a lot easier than most other "larger than man-sized" figures. That said, they would have to be stupid cheap for that justification to take hold and I do realize it's fairly situational. Between D&D prepaints, Bones, GW armies, etc. though, the only trolls I would be looking for would be things so specific I would end up sculpting it myself. While I don't believe my situation would apply to like 80% of potential customers, I would buy those before GW OK for conversions all day. As a base model though.. yeah they're kinda garbage. (I am fond of the character with the chops though)

If they only hadn't given their trolls the legs of arthritic goblins, I too could see the possibility for plain conversion fodder.

As it is now, only the torsos are suitable to make "larger than man-sized" figures, but the legs... not so much.

The Zombie trolls (regular and Dungeon saga ones) are a lot better proportioned though, so maybe Mantic has finally started to leave the tiny-legs-phase behind them now,

IMO the thuul's tentacles will snap as soon as I try to cut the holding bar - resin is hard and the act of cutting will create enough mechanical stress to snap at least one of the tentacles. Also, wwile I'm a complete dilettante in the field, the idea of having a master silicon mould that is used to create additional moulds (of arguably lesser quality than the master as silicon is a softer material) combined with the fact that silicon wears off pretty fast (according to them) speaks to me of miniatures that could vastly differ in casting quality. Also, just to write silicon one more time - siicon .

The new murlocs, though, are all metal (the price is very reasonable aswell IMO at 2 quid per metal model) and I'm very fond of the model itself. I'll definitely be getting atleast one box in the future.

Opinion on Mantic quality as this got touched on aswell:

 CoreCommander wrote:
IMO the thuul's tentacles will snap as soon as I try to cut the holding bar - resin is hard and the act of cutting will create enough mechanical stress to snap at least one of the tentacles.

I'd recommend using clippers rather than a knife to remove the holding bar.

 CoreCommander wrote:
the idea of having a master silicon mould that is used to create additional moulds (of arguably lesser quality than the master as silicon is a softer material) combined with the fact that silicon wears off pretty fast (according to them) speaks to me of miniatures that could vastly differ in casting quality.

the final mould is silicon, but you need something to make 20 identical minis to to make that final mould
or have a different method to make it.
cast 20 master models in silicon is the easiest way to get them done and the production minis are all of the same quality

It seems I got it wrong in my previous post, but here is the complete article https://manticblog.com/2017/02/28/mantic-games-resin-miniatures/ (also linked on the previous tthread page - I'm just reposting it for convenience)

 kodos wrote:

cast 20 master models in silicon is the easiest way to get them done and the production minis are all of the same quality

My problem is that they're using a master model to make a master mould which is then used to create sub-masters which in turn are used to create the final mould. So the final model is a essentially a product of two moulds and in practice a third generation clone cast from the original. This may be the standard methodology for all I know though and I've just been in the dark until now on how miniatures are cast.

Turns out the tentacle bars come off pretty easy with no to very minor impact on the tentacle, actually the akward bit was gluing the face on when applying presure if you have fat fingers without damaging the tentacles.

SeanDrake wrote:
Turns out the tentacle bars come off pretty easy with no to very minor impact on the tentacle, actually the akward bit was gluing the face on when applying presure if you have fat fingers without damaging the tentacles.

If anyone is worried for thin resin bits to snap while cutting/clipping them off, a trick is to soak them quickly in some hot water first, just like when straightening bent pieces. Since the resin is a bit malleable when warm, it wont snap if exposed to a bit of pressure.

Here is an interview with Dakka's own Matt J. Gilbert about the oft-mentioned adventure game book he wrote.

https://manticblog.com/2017/03/20/dungen-saga-rise-shadow-king-interview/

CoreCommander wrote:

My problem is that they're using a master model to make a master mould which is then used to create sub-masters which in turn are used to create the final mould. So the final model is a essentially a product of two moulds and in practice a third generation clone cast from the original. This may be the standard methodology for all I know though and I've just been in the dark until now on how miniatures are cast.

That is how every single metal/resin model's been cast since pretty much forever.

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