[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**NTRabbit**

Different rider too

**DaveC**

I’ve spoken for many years about a skirmish game for Kings of War – to act as an easy entry point, and to start an army by the stealth route (before I knew it Deadzone had me a long way to a Warpath army as I kept adding members to my squad).

But I wanted the skirmish game to be set within, alongside, and amongst the battles and wars of Mantica. I recently visited the battlefield of Waterloo – and enjoyed seeing the 3 or 4 battles that happened in the days running up the big bash! The attempts to split the enemy’s force, and interfere with their supply routes. Kings of War: Vanguard seeks to recreate just that. Your best lieutenant takes his trusted band of brothers, heavies and hard bitten warriors to a man (or dwarf) to forage deep behind enemy lines, and come back with their battle plans, their gunpowder or perhaps a princess or two!

The game will feature scenarios that challenge your warband to achieve interesting tactical missions – and these can be played as both one-off games themselves or be the lead up to a big KoW game – and if you lose the battle to protect your gunpowder supplies then you might get less war machines in the big battle! The game will also come with a detailed warband experience and progression system so you can play a long-running campaign of games and watch your characters and Vanguard Company grow and evolve. Very exciting stuff!

Oh, and all the models are going to be unique and fantastic sculpts – so as well as Vanguard you can use them as heroes or unit commanders in your KoW army too!

We hope Vanguard will excite and delight our existing gamers – it’ll allow us to get new figures and units out for the existing armies, plus get all the lapsed generals dipping back into KoW. What’s more, it might also recruit a whole new batch of players to pick it up because it is a low figure count/quick to play skirmish game – and by doing that we’ll introduce a whole new group to the joys of KoW.

Ronnie

**BobtheInquisitor**

Consider me interested.

**Gallahad**

Very interested in those gribblies in the cover art. Is this going to be a Kickstarter? I hope not. A 1.5-2 year wait would surely kill the enthusiasm for the project.

**Zywus**

Might that be Basileans vs Nightstalkers in the art?

Some kind of 2-player starterset for Vanguard might be a good way to combine the release of new men at arms with some official Nightstalker models.

**kodos**

Basilean VS Nightstalker with new Fantasy Terrain = ordered
but no KS for me, I can wait for retail

**DaveC**

They're rolling em out today new Dungeon Saga Expansion Eye of the Abyss with single piece resin versions of the KoW summer campaign heroes.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga/expansions/product/dungeon-saga-eye-of-the-abyss.html

£35 which is cheaper than the 5 individual heroes

Like other expansions, there’s new heroes and villains for your games. The heroes of the Kings of War Summer Campaign reappear in single-piece resin miniatures that slot into their own detailed bases. They are Artkal, the Ghekkotah Clutch Warden, Eckter, the Placoderm Defender, Magnilde, The Varangur Demon hunter and Jarvis, the Ophida-Obsessed Mage. Acing off against your new heroes is Mau’Ti-Bu-Su, an Abyssal Temptress. There’s also 9 of the Plastic Abyssal Minions, which you’ll need for your adventures.

The real treasure of this set is the Questbook, which includes a whopping 13 Scenarios. There’s not one, but two campaign to play though, in addition to a few more ‘mercurial’ missions that can be played as stand alone games. The first of these has 6 scenarios, following the events leading up the Edge of the Abyss Summer Campaign. The new heroes are summoned by the Green Lady to find an Abyssal Artifact that could grant the wicked ones unfathomable power. This perilous quest will lead them into the Abyss itself, where they will be forced to fight off score of demonic warriors just to survive.
The second Campaign features the heroes of the original Dungeon Saga as then enter a haunted library to expel the poltergeist that lurks within. This is a tough campaign fought against the Undead, that will give new and existing players alike a strong challenge, especially when you face the poltergeist herself.

The final three adventures are each stand alone pieces, which are a fun game to play though in an evening. You heroes are unceremoniously tasked with menial, albeit humorous duties, such as clearing a sewer of zombies, to dealing with a nasty infestation of over-sized rodents, to taking down a mighty and ancient Undead Wight. With the two campaigns there is enough gaming here to keep you occupied for a long time to come.

That’s not all. The last section of the book include a detailed FAQ for the Dungeon Saga Core Rules, plus some Errata. This is a handy reference for anyone playing the game at home to refer to if any rules issues come up.

**ulgurstasta**

Zywus wrote:
Might that be Basileans vs Nightstalkers in the art?

Oh definitely, one of the critters in the art seems to be based on this sketch found in the Night-stalker list

Spoiler:

**BobtheInquisitor**

I'm pretty sure I ate one of those guys tempura-style at Bubba Gump once.

**DaveC**

Vanguard Q&A from Facebook

Q: D8s? why?
A: because they give a better range within the stat profile of the characters

Q: will Vanguard use existing KoW characters and troop types or will it invent new ones?
A: both

Q: how do pick your forces? Do you use units from the (KoW) armies or will there be a whole list with stats?
A: each warband will have a selection of models to choose from subject to restrictions on model types. Types include command/ support/ grunts.

Q: what size is a standard game? How long is a game?
A: 100 points. 60- 70 minutes

Q: do warbands gain experience?
A: yes rules are included for one off games but a campaign system and warband experience/progression is also included.

Q: is the game on a grid. is specific terrain necessary?
A: no grid, play area 3x3, can use normal terrain nothing specfic to Vanguard.

Q: will there be stats for all existing KoW factions?
A: some to begin more later. New warbands through retail.

Q: will it integrate with Dungeon Saga?
A: not at the moment

Q: square bases? Is size important can I use round?
A: yes (square bases) they define arcs.

Q: are you planning to do a boxed game?
A: there will be a retail starter set.

Q: Twilight kin?
A: likely integrated into the Nightstalkers.

Q: will it use KoW stats?
A: similar but not exactly the same

Q: which factions are planned?
A: 4 warbands with the alpha rules - Dwarves, Goblins, Undead and Abyssals

Q: is a Kickstarter planned?
A: good question keep looking you never know what you might find

Q: what sort of turn activation?
A: alternating activations. You can activate individual models but can spend power to activate groups/ special abilities/ clear fatigue.

Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
A: that sounds cool!

**Mymearan**

Square bases? That... is a pretty huge disadvantage for those who play other skirmish games (Frostgrave, Song of Blades and Heroes, AoS skirmish) and want to use those models. Then again, it makes it easy to use people's KoW minis, which is what they want I guess.

**judgedoug**

DaveC wrote:

Q: square bases? Is size important can I use round?
A: yes (square bases) they define arcs.

No 28-32mm skirmish game should be so granular as to require facing. Unless each turn is 1/4 of a second? Is it Phoenix Command? Or are we piloting Battlemechs?

**Manchu**

Facing in a skirmish game ... wrong answer.

**Nostromodamus**

People don't seem to have a problem with facing in Warmahordes.

Does Infinity use facing?

**Alpharius**

It certainly does...

I'm not seeing this as a deal breaking issue in a low model count skirmish scale game.

Ramping up detail when model count gets ramped down is OK by me.

**judgedoug**

WMH isn't a skirmish game, it's Advanced Squad Leader with a Steampunk overlay.

and Infinity _IS_ Phoenix Command.

Seriously had high hopes for this but it seems like nothing will ever top SBG for skirmish.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Facing in a skirmish game ... wrong answer.

It's even more medged than True Line Of Sight. Not only are our models literal stone statues, but they move as them too! Please roll your Neck Check to see if you can rotate your head!

**Clanan**

I've never played a Mantic game but this definitely looks interesting. Those monstery minis look sweet and it will include progression!

**Manchu**

Infinity is going for high granularity. But is that what Mantic really wants out of their cartoon fantasy world?

**Alpharius**

Who knows? Maybe?

But I don't suspect it will be anything near what Infinity is though - that game has way too much going on these days, with tons of 'just a bit different' rules too.

**highlord tamburlaine**

So if facing is an issue that necessitates the use of square bases, wouldn't it be just as easy to mark off their arcs on a round base?

It's what most of Privateer's players already do...

I'm guessing their coyness about whether this is a kickstarter means it probably is.

I hope they give us a rules overview prior to launch.

**Manchu**

I get the sense that Infinity is purposefully complicated, which sort of works for that genre. Now whether it is too complicated, that's well beyond my knowledge as someone who has never played it much less being familiar with the current rules. But it's hard to imagine what facing would add to a fantasy skirmish, besides awkward gameyness.

**Yodhrin**

DaveC wrote:

Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
A: that sounds cool!

Hnng, I hate non-answers like this, especially since this would be the only thing of interest for me.

**Alpharius**

Yodhrin wrote:
DaveC wrote:

Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
A: that sounds cool!

Hnng, I hate non-answers like this, especially since this would be the only thing of interest for me.

Same here!

I mean, yes, it does sound cool, but maybe...answer the question?

This one was annoying too:

Q: is a Kickstarter planned?
A: good question keep looking you never know what you might find

Again, just answer the question...

**Manchu**

Q: Is being coy wearing a bit thin?
A: You tell me.

**Nostromodamus**

Q. Will Mantic get any of my money?
A. We'll have to wait and see, won't we?

**NTRabbit**

There's nothing stopping anyone with round bases from standing them on a 30 cent square bit of MDF. Plenty of people already do that on a larger scale with full sized KoW units.

**Illumini**

Facing can be a good mechanic, adding options for backstab, not triggering overwatch and stuff like that. It is fully possible to do that with round bases however, like warmachine does. If facings are so modular that you have flanks as well, which it sounds like, it might be a bit much? Round bases looks so much better for skirmish games.

Modular fantasy terrain would be amazing!

The basilian vs night stalker art is really cool, the night stalkers look suitably creepy.

**Prestor Jon**

I think it's the case of a poor response more so than using square bases in a skirmish game is an inherently bad idea. It would have been much better if Mantic had just said that they want the minis that people use in Vanguard to be fully compatible with KoW and Dungeon Saga and vice versa and with that in mind Vanguard minis will come with square bases. The functionality of the ruleset shouldn't be dependent on base shape then the ruleset is flawed. I'd be very surprised if the rules are written in such a way as to make using minis on round bases game breaking.

**Gallahad**

I don't mind facing since it gives a decent mechanic for whether a unit is surprised by an attack (their attention/focus is else where, etc.).

**judgedoug**

Prestor Jon wrote:
The functionality of the ruleset shouldn't be dependent on base shape then the ruleset is flawed. I'd be very surprised if the rules are written in such a way as to make using minis on round bases game breaking.

Nah, I mean, WMH requires round bases - but that's the nature of the game. It doesn't require miniatures, just 2d discs, because the game is designed as a highly complex synergy-reliant chess game. So WMH works perfectly for what it's attempting to do.

If Vanguard requires square bases because of some super granular awful front/flank/rear system, then, that's it's design aim. Not one that I agree with nor would play. Gimme SBG control zones.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gallahad wrote:
I don't mind facing since it gives a decent mechanic for whether a unit is surprised by an attack (their attention/focus is else where, etc.).

I disagree 100%. Facing in a skirmish game is an example of lazy (bad) rules design. "Awareness" can easily be a roll or numerical comparison so that a variety of models can have various awareness "stats" (for lack of a better term), and you are not locked into a front/flank/rear mechanic.