[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**JoshInJapan**

I, too, would have liked a rules-only pledge level. I'll keep watching this thread in case one gets added.

**Zethnar**

I can't believe there are people in the comments section there not only defending the choice of not having a 2 player starter set as an option, but saying "If you don't like it then don't pledge".

Why on earth would you tell someone not to back a kickstarter you want to see succeed?

**Theophony**

Zethnar wrote:
I can't believe there are people in the comments section there not only defending the choice of not having a 2 player starter set as an option, but saying "If you don't like it then don't pledge".

Why on earth would you tell someone not to back a kickstarter you want to see succeed?

Because it’s the internet

. People on he internet know better than anyone else on the internet, therefore they know that the other people are terrible and should only be praising Mantic and pooping rainbows.

**BobtheInquisitor**

What about the ones who praise rainbows..?

**Theophony**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What about the ones who praise rainbows..?

That’s another forum

. Possibly kingdom death related.

**domobomb**

Sorry, I can't trust Mantic and their absolute kickstarter lies.

I've backed 2 Mantic Kickstarters. Both times they promised to ship Royal Mail in their FAQ. Both times they ended up shipping DHL. I got burned so hard on shipping costs and duties that I will never back another Mantic Kickstarter campaign.

I'm still salty about it.

Their products are great and I still buy them except I buy them at a retailer like Wayland at a discount with free shipping and no duties.

I wish them the best on their latest campaign.

**jeff white**

Theophony wrote:
Zethnar wrote:
I can't believe there are people in the comments section there not only defending the choice of not having a 2 player starter set as an option, but saying "If you don't like it then don't pledge".

Why on earth would you tell someone not to back a kickstarter you want to see succeed?

Because it’s the internet . People on he internet know better than anyone else on the internet, therefore they know that the other people are terrible and should only be praising Mantic and pooping rainbows.

My wife regularly poops rainbows.
And my mom...
Like, every day.
Honest.

**pancakeonions**

I'm stoked about this one (dropped Joan of Arc to pick this up), but am bummed - it's funding very slowly, meaning we ain't likely to see too many stretch goals. Sure hope they throw up some alt-poses quick, to get folks more interested.

**jeff white**

Zethnar wrote:
I can't believe there are people in the comments section there not only defending the choice of not having a 2 player starter set as an option, but saying "If you don't like it then don't pledge".

Why on earth would you tell someone not to back a kickstarter you want to see succeed?

I agree that the "if you don't like it then XYZ-off" is a nasty attitude, and should be squashed.
However, I also appreciate that there are not two sides to every starter box.
Most people will already have a few dozen/hundred/hundred-dozen fantasy models to use with these rules and terrain.
Some may wish for a new starter set to "get started" but... I figure that this is the minority of those interested.

The shipping is what is stopping me from going for this kit, frankly.
I can't imagine that shipping to South Korea is cheap.
But, if I wait for this kit to appear on Mantic's website, then I might qualify for free or reduced shipping that way, later.

**Zethnar**

I don't think anyone asking for a 2 player starter set is saying not to offer other options. The single pledge level they do offer is just kinda unappealing and includes you a lot of junk that experienced wargamers probably don't need. I don't own any Mantic fantasy stuff, in fact I don't own a lot of fantasy stuff at all, so having two factions is way more useful to me than something I can produce on my own for next to nothing (i.e. the terrain pieces).

**NTRabbit**

Saving the 2 player starter for retail only seems like a reasonable response given how often they're criticised for ignoring/undercutting retail by putting everything people will ever want in the kickstarter.

**BobtheInquisitor**

are...are you sure that's how this kind of thing works? 'Cause I could totally see the common wisdom that the KS campaign had too few backers with too many complaints creating the impression that the game is DOA, inhibiting retail sales and leaving Mantic holding the bag, a bag that costs more because two small, differing print runs cost a lot more than one larger print run.

**NTRabbit**

I think they're on a hiding to nothing every time they respond to criticism and make a decision on a new direction, and calculated that they could demonstrate a loud commitment to retail and it would still fund well enough anyway.

**Illumini**

Gallahad wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
ulgurstasta wrote:
Miniature-wise I'm hoping for some "totally-not-maruaders" miniatures for the northern alliance and a strong showing for the nightstalkers, Love me some chaos proxies

I doubt Mantic will make spiky He-mans. If you want reasonable northern raiders, Frostgrave already has you covered.

Frostgrave only has you covered as long as you like your barbarians to look small compared to all your other miniatures!

So true, both the warriors and the barbarians look great, I was so sad when I discovered they were so small :(

The market is still wide open for a great marauder / fantasy vikings kit, which is what I am hoping mantic will bring out.

**ulgurstasta**

lord_blackfang wrote:
ulgurstasta wrote:
Miniature-wise I'm hoping for some "totally-not-maruaders" miniatures for the northern alliance and a strong showing for the nightstalkers, Love me some chaos proxies

I doubt Mantic will make spiky He-mans. If you want reasonable northern raiders, Frostgrave already has you covered.

I wouldn't count it out, A barbarian kit could work as a the base for both northern alliance and varangur, just like salamanders did for FoN and Salamanders. Odds are low though that we will see them for this campaign though.

**jtrowell**

I would also expect a Nightstalker sprue as it could serve for both them and the revamped Twilight Kin (Dark Elves), but we have yet to see if they want to use the Vanguard KS to finance that (like they did with the second Deadzone KS for many plastic sprues for Warpath) or if they will do a separate KS later to go with the book that will add the new Twilight Kin, the Northen Alliance and the Ophidians to KoW

Automatically Appended Next Post:

This seems to confirm the new basilean men at arms sprue and a scarecrow sprue

**Theophony**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:What about the ones who praise rainbows..?

Not that I’m planning on building a army of scarecrows, but I hope the legs all don’t have the one missing and replaced by flames of dark energy. One or two would be fine, but all of them with only 1 foot would be daft.

**ulgurstasta**

First update, Two player starter set added.

Ho! Vanguardians,

As always thank you for all your support so far - it's good to see the total continuing to climb! One of the great things about Kickstarter is that during the campaign we're able to listen to our backers and make changes based on their feedback.

One of the clear concerns for the opening pledge is the lack of a two-player starter set. That's absolutely our mistake, we looked at previous Kickstarters and spoke to fans about what they wanted - and many said they preferred to have their own rulebook and warband in a skirmish game. Plus, the terrain plays an important part in Vanguard so we wanted to make sure that was in there from the beginning too.

Another thing that caused some confusion was not listing the materials for the heroes – and to some this made the pledge looks a little light on value. The show piece models are going to be in high quality resin – and this was missing from the pledge graphic. In the Basilean Warband, the Abbess and Dictator, and in the Nightstalker's warband, the monstrous Mind Screech (which comes on a 50mm base) will all be in resin, as will the Nightstalkers Shade, which we've now added to the Warband Pledge (Ed - Ronnie's OCD kicked in because we didn't have a render and he told me to leave it out. I’ve overruled him, but it'll just be the artwork for now!) The pledge graphics reflect this info now.

So, apologies for not including a two-player starter set option from the start, or making clear enough where the value was. With that in mind, we’ve put the 2 player option up there now – also at $85. In this set we’ve removed the scenery and resins and added in the second Warband – more than enough miniatures to get Vanguard started in style, and of course, all the books, dice, cards and everything else you’ll need too. We're sorry for not including that from the start - but we have listened and hope this scratches that itch.

Thanks again for the support so far, the starter pledge is already cheaper than retail. With your help we can unlock some really exciting extra elements and we have some amazing things planned - like the BRAND NEW hard plastic Basilean Men at Arms and the hard plastic Scarecrows for the Nightstalker warband. In fact, they'll be the first stretch goal once we're funded and then we can really start adding even more to your pledge!

**Nostromodamus**

"We didn't want to say you got this extra monster in the NS warband because we didn't have a render ready"

Yeah ok Mantic...

Just say you're throwing it in to add value. Don't spin some weak lie about it being in there all along.

So the two-player set you get no terrain and the warbands have less minis in them. And they're limited

**DaveC**

Still at $1 while adding the 2 player set was a good move removing the resin hero miniatures and leaving just 4 unique sculpts (doubled up) in each warband also removed a lot of the value. They will probably reappear as $8-$10 add ons putting the cost back to $120/$130 for a complete 2 player set but without the added terrain.

**Zethnar**

Well I guess this kickstarter is going to die a slow and painful death.

I get that Mantic are pricing it with the expectation that a bunch of stretch goals will unlock, but they can't get away with that anymore. Right now I'd be better off putting my money towards Necromunda. The cost is about the same and I'd get more and better miniatures than Mantic are offering, not to mention plastic terrain, a thick card playmat with variable layouts, and a bunch of dice and templates. There's just no comparison when it comes to value there.

**Sarouan**

I'll be honest : this Kickstarter looks to me like a cash grab. No more, no less. I bet Mantic Games needs some cash now to finish their previous projects.

It really looks like what Spartan Games did with Firestorm Armada - very low value, only high pledges and trying desperatly to show things so that lots of people get their wallet.

I'm not touching this one. If it succeeds, I'm fine with waiting what the real product will be once it hits the shops. And I have no doubt it will be in the shops while still on the way of delivery for the gullible backers...

**Tyr13**

Sarouan wrote:
I'll be honest : this Kickstarter looks to me like a cash grab. No more, no less. I bet Mantic Games needs some cash now to finish their previous projects.

It really looks like what Spartan Games did with Firestorm Armada - very low value, only high pledges and trying desperatly to show things so that lots of people get their wallet.

I'm not touching this one. If it succeeds, I'm fine with waiting what the real product will be once it hits the shops. And I have no doubt it will be in the shops while still on the way of delivery for the gullible backers...

I wouldnt say that, actually. To me, it looks like their usual KS stuff. Problem is, theyve always banked on rushing through their stretchgoals, with limited value from the get-go. With KS fatigue a widespread thing, and Mantocs track record being at least somewhat dubious, their tactic just doesnt work anymore. DS made them pretty well known, but when the game itself left so much to be desired... that put loads of people off of backing their games. So yeah. Not really getting cash-grab vibes here, just them using a tactic that has been less and less effective recently
:/

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Forgive me, but this is a slightly off topic question. But does Mantic even need to use Kickstarter anymore? I was under the impression they were a decently sized company these days. Do they really need to be crowd funding for their games going onwards?

**skarsol**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Forgive me, but this is a slightly off topic question. But does Mantic even need to use Kickstarter anymore? I was under the impression they were a decently sized company these days. Do they really need to be crowd funding for their games going onwards?

If Honeywell can put a security system on IndieGoGo, then I'm pretty sure anything goes as far as 'crowdfunding' now.

Edit: And just to clarify, if you could get money for a product you haven't made yet and still not actually be legally required to make/deliver said product, then wouldn't you take that option every time? Oh, and it comes with free publicity!

**jtrowell**

They are still rather small compared to GW, and things like a new game takes a lot of investment.

As they mentionned for early projects, without a KS, they could release a new game, but with the KS they can have a decent model range ready and financed for the initial release that they couldn't have with in house financing, and they can also already plan for at least some extentions to the base game.

Imagine that they release Vanguard but the models that you see here are the only available for 6 month or more, would the game get the same chance for success ?

**Necros**

I'm in for now, but I don't know if I'll stick around. Sculpts look good but I feel like this was a bit rushed and needs to be fleshed out a lot more. Rules looked good, but when there are so many different factions in KOW, I'm kinda surprised there's only 2 here. They really should have started off with at least 4, and showed teasers for warbands from others too. I'm sure they have plans for other factions in stretch goals, but it feels like there's just not enough meat to sink your teeth into just yet.

**Maccwar**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Forgive me, but this is a slightly off topic question. But does Mantic even need to use Kickstarter anymore? I was under the impression they were a decently sized company these days. Do they really need to be crowd funding for their games going onwards?

Mantic are still tiny and they are not operating at the economies of scale to be making vast piles of cash from their products at their current prices. Investment in plastic is pretty risky for them without a Kickstarter as it takes quite a while before you can start making a profit on your outlay.

The other big advantage of the Kickstarter is that it engages with the fans and gives them a voice in the finished product.

So in short they still need it for some things but are still releasing plenty of non kickstarted products as well.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

This is far from an irredeemable situation, but I think the KS could stand to see a bit of a remix. The small model-count natural for this kind of game conflicts with the value proposition most people expect these days, even from smaller companies.

Again think about the diversity and volume of models, etc... in Joan of Arc right now.

As such I don't think Mantic can do their usual "start with a mediocre deal, but grow into a terrific one"

**DaveC**

I think EBs in previous KS hid this problem to a degree people jumped on the EB (sometimes multiple on multiple accounts) not knowing if they'd keep it or not just for the initial discount and the project hit its funding no problem it wasn't until mid campaign that things started going side ways now there's no EB there's no incentive to put more than a dollar in and wait and see. I know people don't like EBs but they get the project across the line initially which encourages more backers in (some won't invest until a project is funded) CMON have been able to get away from them but Mantic aren't yet in that position particularly when the initial value isn't there and they are trying to sell you on an as yet unknown final great deal.