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 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm wondering how the play of Vanguard compares to Star-Struck City that was published by the guys who do the Ironwatch for Kings of War. Because that one was not only professionally made, it's free and is supposed to play like a not-Mordheim and even uses KoW mechanics as a base. I have it downloaded, but haven't had a chance to play it.

Good point. If you have a go let us know how they stack up.

I would encourage others to do so! With two kids and moving into a new house in a couple of weeks-not to mention upcoming holidays- my gametime will be slim for the next two months.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Zethnar wrote:

This is kind of a counter-intuitive argument.

Nope. Individual sprues cost into the the tens of thousands to develop, monopose or otherwise. Times that by however many are being made and you have a significant upfront cost, which is where Kickstarter comes in. If the initial cost is not covered it's not economically worth it. If extra stuff was thrown in just to try and get people to pledge, then that initial cost goes up, which means they need a high target, and so on and so forth.

And that's just for the models. Add in rules, writers, artists and packaging. All need paying for. Which, again, is why I find it odd that there are still people who think kickstarter is a shopfront.

You missed the point. The cost of creating the molds/tooling isn’t the issue, it’s the fact that producing the spruces from the molds is very cheap. Mantica shouldn’t be only giving backers 1 sprue and then offering an additional sprue as a stretch goal, sprue are cheap so if the backers are paying for the molds they should be rewarded with lots of sprues.

It seems to me like Mantic wasn’t sure what to do with this KS, keep the model count low in pledges because it’s a skirmish game or use the KS campaign to produce KoW troops units in HIPS. If the backers are supposed to be enticed by getting enough models to have multiple KoW units in their Vanguard war bands in the pledges then is Vanguard a skirmish game or just low point value KoW scenarios in a campaign?

90K reached, so more Nightstalkers models are added:



Earlier, a extra sister with new weapons were added as well due to a social goal being met.

That's the stupidest sword I've seen not on a Privateer Press mini. I really hope they don't go with that.

Pointy swords are for squares!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That's the stupidest sword I've seen not on a Privateer Press mini. I really hope they don't go with that.

That`s sword shaming! So what if her sword isn`t sharp or even thin, and infact just is an iron bar with a guard. Pop culture made katanas popular, and they are basically the same thing, but with 1 sharpened side. (really though, katanas sucked as a weapon)

She is also about to ride a bicycle. Look at her knee gear! What really puzzles me are random 3d brush strokes on cloth.

I don't think it's fair to complain about a sword being too thick on a model of this size. I'ts not possible to make literally true scaled swords in 28mm scale.

An actual historical sword is rarely thicker than 5mm at most, (and usually less). Scale that down to 28mm, which is roughly 1:56 and you have a sword that's 0,1mm thick at it's thickest. Which is obviously not possible and overwhelmingly impractical.

Now, the design is a bit stupid, but IMO no more so than a hugely oversized double-headed. And people never bat an eye at those in basically any fantasy model ange in existance.

That sisters sword is a hybrid between a longsword and a mace. Sacrificing the nimbleness and thrusting capabilities of a pointed and tapered tip in return for some for anti-armour capability. Similar to the uruk-hai swords of the LotR movies.


It's not a hugely practical design, but imagine it being a more realistic thickness and it's a far better weapon than something like this:

or this:

Starter Abyssal warband added to both of the $85 pledge levels.

Lower Abyssals are the existing HIPs sprue the rest are new sculpts in PVC. The 3 character options for this warband will be a $20 resin add on.

Ah, the "Crazy Ronnie" moment was an update, not a video. I was close, though!

Let be fair to him, he did acknowledge and adress the problems with the KS, and the abyssian force does add a decent value to the 85$ pledges.

It also make the original pledge into an effective 2 players one with basileans and abyssals forces (classical opponents), and the 2 players pledge become a 3 player one.

Sure, it would have been better to have them from the start, but better late than never.

In any case I don't regreat my current pledge and will probably add 20$ for the new abyssal resin once they are reveled.

Resin Banshee SG hit... and probably the Resin Ogre Palace Guard will be hit soon too.

Mantic hinted at a "Basilean Bonanza" at the 100k mark like what the nightstalkers had, so I'd expect another update soon about that.

I think it's more of an odd choice to have scouts that are equipped with leather armor and cloaks, ostensibly to be stealthy, also have large ornate greaves and carry two handed swords that are 5' long.

The new Basileans have too much of a War Machine aesthetic for me.

I'm hoping that the Nightstalker warband become more appealing as the campaign goes on and I'll jump in with a late pledge.

A Northern Alliance warband would get me to pledge for sure but I don't know if the campaign will fund enough to unlock it.

 DaveC wrote:
Starter Abyssal warband added to both of the $85 pledge levels.

Lower Abyssals are the existing HIPs sprue the rest are new sculpts in PVC. The 3 character options for this warband will be a $20 resin add on.

So this is in HIPS - that's cool. Does that mean there are options for multiposes and weapons and such? Has anyone who plays Abyssals comment on how these figures are? I'm now pretty happy with my 2 player pledge, and hopefully we'll get a few more goodies added by the end of the campaign

Thanks for any thoughts on the Abyssal HIPS sprue!

The Lower Abyssal sprue is pretty nice- you've got options for making the ranged magical ones, or melee weapons wielding ones. Plus the mascot figures!

Shamlessly ripped off the net from the bell

 DaveC wrote:
Starter Abyssal warband added to both of the $85 pledge levels.

Ah, I didn't get this at first.

Initially I thought it was just adding an option to get Abyssals instead of either Nightstalkers or Basileans, but it's indeed added to both the $85 pledges.

That does add a fair bit of value. I'll be a lot less likely to cancel my initial pledge now

 pancakeonions wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Starter Abyssal warband added to both of the $85 pledge levels.

Lower Abyssals are the existing HIPs sprue the rest are new sculpts in PVC. The 3 character options for this warband will be a $20 resin add on.

So this is in HIPS - that's cool. Does that mean there are options for multiposes and weapons and such? Has anyone who plays Abyssals comment on how these figures are? I'm now pretty happy with my 2 player pledge, and hopefully we'll get a few more goodies added by the end of the campaign

Thanks for any thoughts on the Abyssal HIPS sprue!

You can look at the abyssal HIPS sprues here:
http://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2015/12/four-plastics-and-fiend.html

jtrowell wrote:
Let be fair to him, he did acknowledge and adress the problems with the KS, and the abyssian force does add a decent value to the 85$ pledges.

It also make the original pledge into an effective 2 players one with basileans and abyssals forces (classical opponents), and the 2 players pledge become a 3 player one.

Sure, it would have been better to have them from the start, but better late than never.

In any case I don't regreat my current pledge and will probably add 20$ for the new abyssal resin once they are reveled.

Oh, he absolutely addressed and apologized for the shortcomings. That's how the "Crazy Ronnie" narrative always works. When a Mantic campaign stalls out too hard to deny (which usually happens in the middle of a campaign, not the start,) Ronnie comes in with acknowledgements that they should be offering more, and now he's going to make the deals so good it's craaaaazy, just like Crazy Ronnie! Then things get rolling again. It's standard Mantic Kickstarter procedure.

I'm just shocked at how they let this one stall out on day 2. As you note, the initial pledge is now a two player starter, and the two player starter pledge has three warbands now. Just to armchair Kickstarter manager a bit here, they should have made the initial offering the rulebook, the two basic PVC warbands, and one of the Terrain Crate sets - let's say the hedges and fences. Oh, and the entire PVC sets for the Basileans and Nightstalkers, not the intitial handful of PVC minis. This is what I suspect the retail box will look like, anyway. Then make the resins, the objectives, the alt-sculpts, and the extra terrain the fake stretch goals. Start off with a two player game, not a one player hobby project.

Instead, they got stingy on the minis at the beginning because...I don't know. They were so proud of the resins they wanted them in there to start? I don't get why they made the mistake, but it cost them the early momentum before the stall-out. It's a lot better now, but I note it still takes $150 to get all three warbands with the resins included, but going with the initial pledge + $45 second warband, + $20 resin Abyssals. I don't think that hits the "Mantic value" level, much less the "Mantic Kickstarter value" level.

The real value seems to be in the $20 KoW warbands. In most of those, the two character models alone retail at over $20USD together.

 Psychopomp wrote:


The real value seems to be in the $20 KoW warbands. In most of those, the two character models alone retail at over $20USD together.

I guess. But then, they are made with already existing miniatures and having to wait one year before the delivery is kinda...a bit useless. You will say they need to have time to finish the rules and balance the cards, obviously, but the rules don't need a year to be finished. It's obviously the new sculpts that need all the production time.

Truth is, the big pledges are only appealing to the players wanting to play a Basilean, Abyssal or Nightmare warband. If you just want the rules, pledging is not that interesting in the end. Since the project is funded, you will have them in your shops in the end. Miniatures you don't need and won't get that much value to sell in second hand (Mantic products really have a bad value in that matter) aren't that interesting to hoard.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

As everyone that whines about GW prices would know, once the mold and associated costs are paid, the sprues only cost a few pence/cents.

As per the posts here complaining at what the KS project is offering compared to established, already produced games, no, not everyone.

You do know my reply was to someone worrying that the kickstarter would derail if we got too many extra sprues right? My point being, once Mantic have paid for the molds, the extra price for a few sprues is cheap.

 pancakeonions wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Starter Abyssal warband added to both of the $85 pledge levels.

Lower Abyssals are the existing HIPs sprue the rest are new sculpts in PVC. The 3 character options for this warband will be a $20 resin add on.

So this is in HIPS - that's cool. Does that mean there are options for multiposes and weapons and such? Has anyone who plays Abyssals comment on how these figures are? I'm now pretty happy with my 2 player pledge, and hopefully we'll get a few more goodies added by the end of the campaign

Thanks for any thoughts on the Abyssal HIPS sprue!

The plastics are good quality, although the design is love it or hate it. The faces come in either classic "Red Hot" devil or Ghoulie flavors. The torsos and legs are all of a piece, with large hooves. They have swords and axes and other interesting weapons, but not enough to equip them all with the same choice. Shields are optional thick squares with demon faces.

Personally, I think they are really fun plastics, but likely to get samey if you assemble twenty or more.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

As everyone that whines about GW prices would know, once the mold and associated costs are paid, the sprues only cost a few pence/cents.

As per the posts here complaining at what the KS project is offering compared to established, already produced games, no, not everyone.

You do know my reply was to someone worrying that the kickstarter would derail if we got too many extra sprues right?

Yes, but your point also illustrated my own.

Prestor Jon wrote:
I think it's more of an odd choice to have scouts that are equipped with leather armor and cloaks, ostensibly to be stealthy, also have large ornate greaves and carry two handed swords that are 5' long.

If you’ve got an 8’ Ogre with you that’s wearing full plate I think concerns about taking a stealthy approach have long since left the building.

When Mantic finally publish the rules for the Zombie Troll Shaman in KoW I’ll be open to believing they actually read what they write, but until then I wouldn’t worry to much about that sort of thing

Apparently Goblins forego training scouts etc for just churning out wizards like Henry Ford was secretly a small green humanoid too.......

 domobomb wrote:

Not a fan of resin, but for this...

Assuming the concept translates into a model well.

 Baragash wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
I think it's more of an odd choice to have scouts that are equipped with leather armor and cloaks, ostensibly to be stealthy, also have large ornate greaves and carry two handed swords that are 5' long.

If you’ve got an 8’ Ogre with you that’s wearing full plate I think concerns about taking a stealthy approach have long since left the building.

When Mantic finally publish the rules for the Zombie Troll Shaman in KoW I’ll be open to believing they actually read what they write, but until then I wouldn’t worry to much about that sort of thing

Apparently Goblins forego training scouts etc for just churning out wizards like Henry Ford was secretly a small green humanoid too.......

The Ogres in full plate were identified as "Palace Guards" in the artwork and the renders of the women at arms were called out as being "Scouts" so since Mantic chose that terminology intentionally I assumed that the women were supposed to be stealthy and the ogres are supposed to be intimidating heavy infantry. If you have ogre palace guards fighting with stealthy rangers/scouts in the same warband of less than 2 dozen miniatures that's got to be pretty scenario specific, like the VIP went hunting with a small group of scouts and guards and was ambushed or something. Heavy infantry and scouts wouldn't normally be in close proximity to each other since both have their weakness/strengths inverted, scouts are stealthy but soft, heavy infantry are tanky but loud.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
I think it's more of an odd choice to have scouts that are equipped with leather armor and cloaks, ostensibly to be stealthy, also have large ornate greaves and carry two handed swords that are 5' long.

If you’ve got an 8’ Ogre with you that’s wearing full plate I think concerns about taking a stealthy approach have long since left the building.

When Mantic finally publish the rules for the Zombie Troll Shaman in KoW I’ll be open to believing they actually read what they write, but until then I wouldn’t worry to much about that sort of thing

Apparently Goblins forego training scouts etc for just churning out wizards like Henry Ford was secretly a small green humanoid too.......

The Ogres in full plate were identified as "Palace Guards" in the artwork and the renders of the women at arms were called out as being "Scouts" so since Mantic chose that terminology intentionally I assumed that the women were supposed to be stealthy and the ogres are supposed to be intimidating heavy infantry. If you have ogre palace guards fighting with stealthy rangers/scouts in the same warband of less than 2 dozen miniatures that's got to be pretty scenario specific, like the VIP went hunting with a small group of scouts and guards and was ambushed or something. Heavy infantry and scouts wouldn't normally be in close proximity to each other since both have their weakness/strengths inverted, scouts are stealthy but soft, heavy infantry are tanky but loud.

In the art, the greaves are also leather, so just paint them that way.


All done, and your scouts are stealthy once more.

 DarkBlack wrote:


Not a fan of resin, but for this...

Assuming the concept translates into a model well.

Looks like the Stranger Things demogorgon with tits and a skirt. I like it.

So it's pulling a Bugs Bunny?

Seems like things have started to move a bit now. $100K reached.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-vanguard-the-fantasy-skirmish-wargame/posts/2039185 [UPDATE #11]


Banshee added to the Nightstalkers (not the 2-player sets)

(We've already seen this)

And render shown for the ogre added to the Basileans (not the 2-player set here either)


Every $85 pledge get some HIPS ruins though



Next stretchgoal at $105K


More add-ons availible:



And there might be some sort of giant on the way:

"Hey, you got some ogres in my Menoth!"
"No, you got some Menoth on my ogres!"

Not enough Liberace to be Menoth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that Banshee just pushed me from the 'severely tempted' to the 'screw it, I'll take the lot' column.

Has it been confirmed if there's be post KS pledge add ons / bid manager thingy?