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Jidmah wrote:
Maybe open up a new thread calling for help against blood angels? Those threads tend to also attract both ork and BA players, which allows you to listen to both sides. And if you do, post a list of your collection. There no point in suggesting battlewagons to you, if you don't have any

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/469571.page#4646987

Here you go.

Alltheones wrote:Just a heads up Burna Wagons are so awesome! Played Nids the other day, lost the game but was looking like i was gonng get tabled turn 3 until my burna wagon came out to play. My own warphead blew one of my battlewagons killing half the boys inside lol what are the chances, passes his test and rolls two ones then a 6 on the pen table lol, not sure im gonng use him again. So i deff rolled over a squad of termis, the remaining squad attenpted to charge it, lol wall of fire is unbelievable! he then charged with his carnifex and that got barbied. I loved my boomgun, it was very succesful even though i was using a small template instead of a large lol whoops.

In regards to Nids I don't think I can leave home without my Nob with PK. He has the chance of killing a Carni or Hive in one round of combat and thats just something I cannot let go of. The idea of the big shootas on nobs are good but Id rather have PK over the chance of allocating maybe 1 or 2 big shoota hits.

So far I am 1 win (against Tau) and 1 Loss (against Nids) but I made some big mistakes and had some bad luck. It is looking great for Orks in this edition!

ATO

You know your Nob can have both a Bigshoota and a PK yes?

Also, what about the Lifta-wagon?

In 6th Ed. it's horrific. On a 4+ you either do D3 penetrating hits, or D6 glancing hits. The latter will kill any vehicle in the game on a 4+. Plus there's the chance of dropping it on something else.

Well thats APOC, and Im guessing Im misunderstanding you, you mean the Lifta Dropa is really bad ass yes? Because a 4+ auto vehicle kill sounds pretty good to me

No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

Knowing Forgeworld, the rules will proably get changed/updated for 6th at some point, because that seems a tad bit overpowered.

Dribble Joy wrote:Also, what about the Lifta-wagon?

In 6th Ed. it's horrific. On a 4+ you either do D3 penetrating hits, or D6 glancing hits. The latter will kill any vehicle in the game on a 4+. Plus there's the chance of dropping it on something else.

2 problems I see:

1) it's forgeworld, which can make some opponents not allow it
2) technically I think you can only field in Dread Mob list, not Codex: Orks.

My buddy (and the person I play the most) is a blood angel player and runs death company, though not in a land raider. Anything that gets charged by them is dead, they get 5 attacks on the charge and with the chaplain can reroll failed hits and wounds I believe, that means if he has 15 of them you're talkin 75 attacks where he's probably gonna have like 45+ wounds. That means even meganobz will mathematically fail 7ish saves.

As for disposable units that's going to be tough, anything really capable of popping the LR in melee is probably going to be expensive. Are you playing 1500 points? It seems like 15 dc in a landraider would be like what, 700+ points? So if you used say 6 ManZ in a trukk to pop it, even if they get charged and die the DC are now exposed and you can focus fire them down. The other option might be to sacrifice a warboss. Let's say you can take some hull points with the kannons, and you have a nice squad of nob bikers, send the warboss with them, have him detach from the bikers and assault the LR when the time comes, boss pops it, he gets taken out for sure, but then your nob bikers assault the DC and that's a win. When DC get charged they lose 2 attacks and can't reroll hits or wounds!

Just theorycraft but may be worth a try. Without knowing your full list or your opponents list it's hard to say.

The only problem I have with sending a suicide warboss is that he's going to have to start around 22" inches away from a land raider. Because anything less then that, he get's charged by Deathcompany, or just shot to death by the land raider.

Even at 22" inches away, he has to make a 10" charge. I've tried that 2 times with a Waaagh even and failed both times.

Doubtful that he'd get shot to death, as he's immune to the ID of the Multimelta, T6 so requiring 6s to wound from any non-heavy Bolter variants, and the Flamey cannons don't have that great a range. Even with Lascannons, the most he can be targeted by by a single LR is 3, and he has 4 Wounds and is immune to the ID from them (plus the 4+ cover save that would further reduce any of those.)

And if the Death Company comes charging out for the Warboss, then, well, he's done his job and gotten them out of their transport.

When in doubt:

Shoot the assualty things, and assualt the shooty things.

mrfantastical wrote:The only problem I have with sending a suicide warboss is that he's going to have to start around 22" inches away from a land raider. Because anything less then that, he get's charged by Deathcompany, or just shot to death by the land raider.

Even at 22" inches away, he has to make a 10" charge. I've tried that 2 times with a Waaagh even and failed both times.

hmm, yeah. Although if he's disembarking from the land raider to kill your warboss that still sort of accomplishes what you want, then nob bikers (or whatever) counter assault the DC on your turn, granted the land raider is still going strong. Eventually you should be able to take care of it as long as the DC get neutralized.

Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

I think the general consensus is that it'snot the Trukk that got worse, it's mobs of 12 boyz.
That said, I haven't seen anyone talking about doing it, so who knows?

I have, but it was in a 3v2 game where my two allies provided plenty of other options to be shot at. The trukks themselves are still speedy enough to get where you want to go. As said earlier, though, twelve boyz just ain't what they used to be. Whenever I charged a target, it was working in tandem with a second trukk mob. 24 Orks and two PK nobz ate up a single squad of BA assault marines without a problem. Taken individually, not sure if they'd have done so hot. I dont know how many points that particular unit costs, but something tells me its not much more and maybe even less then two full trukks. I'd have to play a game unassisted with a dedicated trukk list to say for certain.

Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Only in smaller point levels. They seem to still be working okay there. But in bigger games, I'd be too afraid that my 12 Ork squads just can't deal with enough stuff, and I need to start loading them in 'Wagons.

Overwatch wounds don't count towards combat res since they don't occur in the Fight subphase. Only wounds caused in the Fight subphase count towards combat res (barring any exceptions where it says otherwise of course) pg. 26, under Determining Assault Results, 2nd paragraph.

wtwlf123 wrote:

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Only in smaller point levels. They seem to still be working okay there. But in bigger games, I'd be too afraid that my 12 Ork squads just can't deal with enough stuff, and I need to start loading them in 'Wagons.

Well, I play at 1500 pts, which is pretty mid field...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AresX8 wrote:Overwatch wounds don't count towards combat res since they don't occur in the Fight subphase. Only wounds caused in the Fight subphase count towards combat res (barring any exceptions where it says otherwise of course) pg. 26, under Determining Assault Results, 2nd paragraph.

Thanks! (I loaned my rulebook to my friend who can't get one right now)

Do you get overwatch against a truck that's suffered a kareen result. ?

Pros:
1.) Hull points makes open topped vehicles and maxed squads of Kans and Buggies more durable to glances. Also, make Deff Dreads quite alluring now.

Anyone verified this? I love my dreads but since i have yet to play a 6th game was wondering if they are still good with 4 dccw. i am thinking of a list that looks something like

2x Big Mek

2x 20 shoota boys w nob Pclaw and bpole

2x troop dread 4 dccw each

3x Dread 4 dccw each

15 lootas

not exactly sure on the points cost. dont have access to codex atm just brainstorming. but its somewhere in the 1250- 1500 range

any ideas?

Dr. What wrote:Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

The marines strike before the orks, so you lose 8 attacks from the total, which is big. The sarge will probably challenge the nob as well.

If you were going to run trukks, you'd probably want to run shoota boyz.

Here's a quick comparison against some space marines (does not take into account wounds dealt to orks, or saves):

11 slugga boyz w/ nob + PK:
3 hits from sluggas, 1.5 wounds
44 regular attacks, 4 PK attacks
11 wounds, + ~1.5 PK wounds
Total wounds: 12.5 wounds


11 shoota boyz w/ nob + PK
7.6 hits from shooting, 3.3 wounds
33 regular attacks, 4 pk attacks
8.25 wounds, + ~1.5 PK wounds
Total wounds: 12.75 wounds


Granted, this is in a vacuum, and doesn't regard saves or orks killed by space marines (plus my math might be off.)

These total up to 152 pts for a Trukk w/ RPJ + 11 boyz + Nob w/ PK + BP. This equates to about .08 wounds per points for sluggas, and .08 wounds per point for shootas. They are pretty much equal, but shoota's get more shots before the assualt even starts. Now, a battlewagon + deffrolla + RPJ w/ Sluggas + Nob w/ PK + BP is 275 pts. A battlewagon unit dishes out something like 27 wounds including the deffrolla, which equates to .10 wounds per point. They are roughly the same wounds per point, but remember, that a battlewagon also has the deffrolla and AV 14. So it can also kill vehicles as well as last longer than the trukk. Though that is lots of math hammer, and doesn't necessarily mean that trukks are equal to battlewagons, just that they can deal a fair amount of damage if used properly. Personally, I'd say go for battlewagons as they have more uses than just rushing boyz to the front line and exploding.

Dribble Joy wrote:No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

As I mentioned it earlier on the topic, there is an official Apocalypse Rulebook issued by Games Workshop (not Forgeworld) in which you can find rules for the Big Mek Stompa. This kind of Stompa is equipped with a Lifta Droppa. You do get D6 glancing hits, which means Hull Points in 6th edition. Plus if the vehicle scatters, you can chose any place within the 24" to drop it onto another vehicle (+D6 glancing hits), or impassable terrain to destroy it. Sounds pretty amazing and a tad overpowered - primary Titan weapons ALL are overpowered though.

Anyway that's the way Orks rule in larger games. Best way to run it IMO: use a unit of 5 Burnaboyz including 3 Meks + one KFF Big Mek with 3 grot oilers. This 825-point behemoth won't be taken down easily at all...

loota boy wrote:

Spoiler:

Dr. What wrote:Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

The marines strike before the orks, so you lose 8 attacks from the total, which is big. The sarge will probably challenge the nob as well.

True, though I really should do my math against Tau fire warriors, as the only guy currently around here that's playing is my Tau friend.

And to virx67:

I'm going to quote MiniWargaming.com's Dan "You probably don't want Shootas in your Trukks, as Shootas are meant for shooting, and Sluggas are meant for slugging. Put Sluggas in your Trukks, because Sluggas and Trukks are meant to get up in your face!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what I plan on running:


Big Mek - Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armor, Cybork Body, Bosspole, Burna

Warphead

Boyz X11 (Big Mek goes here)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X11 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)(Warphead Goes Here)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Dakkajet - Extra Supa Shoota, Fighta Ace

Warbuggies X2 - Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas

Warbuggies X2 - Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas

Battlewagon - Deff Rolla, Kannon, 3 Big Shootas, 'Ard Case, Grot Riggers

Battlewagon - Deff Rolla, Kannon, 3 Big Shootas, 'Ard Case, Grot Riggers

What kind of power weapon are unfired burnaz in 6th ed?

wtwlf123 wrote:What kind of power weapon are unfired burnaz in 6th ed?

Ap3, as they're "unique"

That's what I figured. I was hoping to be able to use them as Power Axes, but no dice. Cheers.

Bonde wrote:Knowing Forgeworld, the rules will proably get changed/updated for 6th at some point, because that seems a tad bit overpowered.

Oh, it already received a massive nerf in Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Eiditon. It's nowhere near as powerful as the IA:8 variant was. It used to auto-hit and now has a mishap table when you roll a one on your to-hit roll, with every result being bad for you (explosion, the opponent picking the target, lifta-droppa throwing itself, penetrating hit on self and radiating everyone nearby with S2 AP3, or glancing self). The new rules only inflict d3 penetrating hits on a rolled 'hit' (used to be d6 glances). If the tossed vehicle is heavy or tank, it will inflict d6 glances on a vehicle it is dropped on, d3 otherwise (used to be d6 always). Cover can be taken against those hits, which was not possible before.

They still can do the silly overload-alpha strike in apoc, but that's just apocalypse.

Bonzofever wrote:

Dribble Joy wrote:No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

As I mentioned it earlier on the topic, there is an official Apocalypse Rulebook issued by Games Workshop (not Forgeworld) in which you can find rules for the Big Mek Stompa. This kind of Stompa is equipped with a Lifta Droppa. You do get D6 glancing hits, which means Hull Points in 6th edition. Plus if the vehicle scatters, you can chose any place within the 24" to drop it onto another vehicle (+D6 glancing hits), or impassable terrain to destroy it. Sounds pretty amazing and a tad overpowered - primary Titan weapons ALL are overpowered though.

Anyway that's the way Orks rule in larger games. Best way to run it IMO: use a unit of 5 Burnaboyz including 3 Meks + one KFF Big Mek with 3 grot oilers. This 825-point behemoth won't be taken down easily at all...

The most recent rules for lifta-droppers are found in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse Second Edition. No matter what your book says, you have to use those. Forgeworld books are just as official for apocalypse as GW books, in fact, they are more official than the GW ones.

By the way: Neither IA:8 nor IA:ASE allow lifta-droppers to be taken in regular Codex: Ork armies.

Thanks Jidmah for covering that up.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with the GW official Codex for two reasons :
1/ I find it difficult to buy an official GW rulebook, a product that becomes obsolete because of FW updates (even 5 years after).
As a matter of fact I don't think my local GW store would ever ask somebody to check FW updates. They sell GW products.
2/ The weapon is overpowered in Final Liberation, too.