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AHHhhhhh that makes loads more sense I was sitting here for a good ten minutes pondering over how he couldnt assault a buggy.

Agreed, thats what I was finding with running 9 of them a few weeks ago. Theres so many there, and small arms probably wont KO one thanks to the HP deal. Also add in the fact that as cheap as they are, your opponent IS GOING TO WASTE POINTS dealing with them. Again, a rokkit buggy is only 35pts, so yea, go ahead Mephiston, attack that unit to get past them, I dont care. Buggies are very different to what you typically field and use, because they arnt really there to kick in some teef, they are more there to annoy your opponent and and allow you to set yourself up for a perfect (more like better anyways) shot/assault.

And Im planning on running a revised version of my old Trukk mob with a bunch of them in there for the same effect. Block LOS, harass my opponent and mostly take fire away from my trukk mobs/BW rushing in

I like getting rid of the glory hogz rule (if it was gotten rid of or just modified) because that made tankbusting tough. and I wish they would modify the rules for looted wagons, maybe give them better armour and make it so they are competitive against enemy vehicles.

 cox.dan2 wrote:
I like getting rid of the glory hogz rule (if it was gotten rid of or just modified) because that made tankbusting tough. and I wish they would modify the rules for looted wagons, maybe give them better armour and make it so they are competitive against enemy vehicles.

How exactly? You're just forced to fire at vehicles if they are present, rather than fire at non-vehicles. The only real downside to the Tankbusting capability is being forced to attempt an assault against a vehicle you'd rather not assault.

Overall though, I'd like to see the Tankbustas get some additional rules to give them some more "oomph", like Tank Hunters.

Glory Hogs wasn't removed, simply re-worded to be better. Essentially, if you're within 24", you still have to Shoot the vehicle. If you're not in range, you have to (I think) either attempt to get into range, or you're free to do whatever.

 Jidmah wrote:


I have had quite a number of player refuse that for some reason though. Unsure why.

I believe they feel that if you know your entire movement for a turn, it will affect your move more then the randomness of a run distance. If you don't know exactly what you can move, you may strand some troops in the open.

I dunno. Of course, I use to just roll 2 dice for my tl rokkits and if either hit then it was a hit until I had a guy say the probability was different between rolling 2 dice and rolling one die, picking it up and rolling it again if i missed.

@KC concerning rokkits on buggies. I think the loadout depends on your strategy. If your using the buggys to deny movement and jam stuff up, maybe cheaper is better. I still use mine with rokkits for vehicle hunting, to peg stuff hiding from my tankbustas, and big gunz. Those ork units are pretty static, and its nice to have some fast tankhunters that can tear up the field and get decent angles on some vehicles' armor.

ive been toying with the idea of using rokkit buggies. Only problem is trying to convert them. Im not too creative :/

 KingCracker wrote:
I dont know BA very well, as Ive literally never l;ooked at their codex. But why cant he assault the buggies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But to add to that, thats something Ive found awesome with buggies currently. They are so cheap, I use them to just charge down the table and block off areas of the board. So the unit that has been blocked either moves around, or wastes their turn shooting/assaulting the units to get them out of the way. Last game, I used 1 whole squadron of rokkit buggies to soak up half of my opponents army for a couple turns. Turn 1 they zipped up and blocked LOS to some scouts with a rokkit launcher. So they wasted that shooting phase popping only 1 buggy. Then the other 2 next turn raced up and right into the grill of a LR redeemer. So he wasted the shots from THAT unit as well to shoot them out of the way, and only killed off one, so a near by unit of bikes wasted their shots so the LR could continue next turn.

Not bad for only 105pts. Part of me is thinking of just leaving the rokkits OFF the buggies and sticking with Bigshootas. Cheaper, and more shots. The rokkits hit nothing on 3 squadrons worth the whole game. So I think If Im just going to mostly use them for controlling the board, with the added help of peppering other units, Ill just keep em cheap.



Thoughts??

Yeah, i'm thinking of running DeffKoptas without Rokkits, they have been doing so little lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonzofever wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Last week in addition to the above listed units I ran 4 mobs of Bikerboyz as follows, 3 bikes, one as Nob with BC for a total of 90 points a piece. I also ran 3 units of Deffkoptas 2x3 and 1x2. BikerBosses ran with the 3 strong deffkopta units and Waz with the 2-strong unit. I was going to outflank those 3 units if I went second but in the end I went first and lined up the 3 Deffkopta units each wih a boss in a row and interspersed my 4 Bikerboyz units. Behind that wall of cover were the 2 Trukks full of Manz.

So I had six fast Troops units. I figured I'd go cheap with the BikerNobz since I felt I had PK's toenough spare. I really like the cheap BikerBoyz Nobz that can take/issue challenges to the scarier opp. HQ's as long as they all can get into assault.

Anywho I learned a lot that game since it was my first game without a mob of foot boyz in half a decade I think.

So next game it'll be 5 x 90 point Bikermobz, 1 unit of 3 Rokkit Deffkoptas, 2 units of 3 MANz missiles one with MAB. And of course Lootas.

Here's the plan: run all 3 BikerBosses with any single unit of Bikerboyz if I get first turn or with the 3 Deffkoptas if I go second. Wih the rule of majority toughness, that unit will all count as T6! Basically Orks pretending to be Grey Wolves 4 HQ TWC. The bosses will be far enough away from each other that LoS rolls will transfer to the Bikerboyz or Deffkoptas.

Could you please share the full list you played with 3 Biker Bosses, MAB and so on? I'd very much like to go into detail.
How did you play the biker nobz? Some with BC and BP, Waaagh Banner, Painboy?
I'm trying to create a biker-themed army and yours sounds great enough for starters.

Here's the exact list:

2000 points

HQ
Wazdakka
BikerBoss with PK, AS, Cybork x 2
MegaBoss AS, Cybork

Elites
7 Lootas x 3

Troops
3 MegaNobz plus Trukk with RR x2
3 Warbikers Nob upgrade BC x 4

Fast Attack
3 Deffkoptas with Rokkits x 2
2 Deffkoptas with Rokkits

The plan was originally to run both BikerBosses with a unit of 3-strong Deffkoptas and Waz with the unit of the 2 Deffkoptas. It worked pretty well against Space Wolves the first week but the Deffkoptas were generally disappointing.

i didn't have enough time to redo my list for this past week against Blood Angels/Space Wolves allies. I got stomped by 20 Assault Marines and 4 of the Golden Guys and Some Force Psyker and of course, Long Fangs.

So anywho the new list is going to be:

2000 points

HQ
Wazdakka
BikerBoss with PK, AS, Cybork x 2
MegaBoss AS, Cybork

Elites
7 Lootas x 3

Troops
3 MegaNobz plus Trukk with RR x2
7 NobBikers with Banner and Painboy
3 Warbikers Nob upgrade BC x 3

Fast Attack
3 Deffkoptas with Twin Big Shootas

I was thinking of running just 3 NobBikers and run all three Bosses with them for T6 majority 6 model unit but considering how much fire power it will probably attract I'll either run the 3 Bosses with the Deffkoptas if I want to outflank or a unit of Bikes or maybe just run them with the 7 Nobz after all. They won't be T6 majority but the FNP and Banner perks will hopefully make up for it.

It's going to take many weeks to figure out the best way to run them but it'll be fun as hell in the mean time. Unfortunately I won't be able to play for at least 3 weeks since I'm back in FL for training again and then Thanksgiving, but it you or anyone else tries something similiar, I'd love to hear about it.

I got a feeling I've stumbled onto something here and now just need to tweek and experiment with it. Like I mentioned in a previous post, this is really Orks pretending to be Space Wolves TW HQ's with TWC deathstar.

PipeAlley - I run a unit of koptas with my biker boss, and they are just stock (though I will add a buzzsaw if points permit) and the amount of shooting from that unit is just crazy! Trust me, they are worth it. TL bigshootas is badass and 15 TL str5 @36inches is nothing to sneeze at, that can lay MEQ down pretty consistently. Add to that, they can smoke a light transport with little effort as well

 KingCracker wrote:
PipeAlley - I run a unit of koptas with my biker boss, and they are just stock (though I will add a buzzsaw if points permit) and the amount of shooting from that unit is just crazy! Trust me, they are worth it. TL bigshootas is badass and 15 TL str5 @36inches is nothing to sneeze at, that can lay MEQ down pretty consistently. Add to that, they can smoke a light transport with little effort as well

Yeah, if my Lootas can't hurt it, i.e. Armor 14, then I'll just let the PK's take care of it.

 KingCracker wrote:
PipeAlley - I run a unit of koptas with my biker boss, and they are just stock (though I will add a buzzsaw if points permit) and the amount of shooting from that unit is just crazy! Trust me, they are worth it. TL bigshootas is badass and 15 TL str5 @36inches is nothing to sneeze at, that can lay MEQ down pretty consistently. Add to that, they can smoke a light transport with little effort as well

Man, I wish Big Meks had deffkopta as an option. That would be mental.

I really like this idea! Up till now, I have pretty much left my deffkoptas packed away out of disgust. My squads would take one round of shooting and run off the board. A HQ w/ a bosspole will hold them. I normally use my bikers as a mobile firebase vs infantry, but deffkoptas have longer range at 36" vs 18" on bikes.

I think keeping them in the game with better staying power outweighs what you lose: jetbike and "hit and run" attaching a Boss to them. You can even take 5 in a unit.

I really need to think this one out cause bikes have the invuln save.

Bikes have a cover save, Jetbikes do these days too as long as they are moving (jink)

I wish they had an invuln save, as several of my usual opponents love their flamers and ignores-cover weapons...

I was thinking of running an all bike/kopta army for the lulz this weekend.

Are warbosses affected by waaagh! banners?

 loota boy wrote:
Are warbosses affected by waaagh! banners?

if joined to the squad of nobs with it, yes.

 Ascalam wrote:
Bikes have a cover save, Jetbikes do these days too as long as they are moving (jink)

I wish they had an invuln save, as several of my usual opponents love their flamers and ignores-cover weapons...

This is what gives them staying power. First turn, you move and then turboboost. So the Bike has its normal 4+ cover, and since you turboboosted, the jets ALSO have a 4+ jink save if you need it. And dont forget about LoS! so you could leave the boss out front, and use his cover save, and if it fails, toss one wound on a koptas. No big deals


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 loota boy wrote:
Are warbosses affected by waaagh! banners?

They are the same way they are affected by painboyz FNP as well. But still, I personally think koptas are a better tag along unit then nob bikers. Bikers are 45pts STOCK, where as a stock kopta is 35. Koptas shoot farther with the same weapon, can slpit off and move much farther AND grant hit and run on the Boss. So you shoot the piss out of a unit, assault it into death, and then when its counter assaulted, if youve a kopta left with the boss, just hit and run out of there. Rinse, repeat.

 KingCracker wrote:
so you could leave the boss out front, and use his cover save, and if it fails, toss one wound on a koptas. No big deals

Unfortunately Look Out Sir! doesn't work like that. You have to roll it before you roll your save. You could however use LOS! to transfer S10 wounds to the Koptas to avoid Instant Death for your Warboss.

 Nym wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
so you could leave the boss out front, and use his cover save, and if it fails, toss one wound on a koptas. No big deals

Unfortunately Look Out Sir! doesn't work like that. You have to roll it before you roll your save. You could however use LOS! to transfer S10 wounds to the Koptas to avoid Instant Death for your Warboss.

BikerBoss is T6 so no ID from Str 10. In fact, you may want to take a chance with that Str. 10 with the boss to NOT ID a Deffkopta or NobBiker.

And doesn't LoS get to be rolled either Before or After you roll the save? But there's only 1 Save, only 1 LoS.

So you can either take the Boss' Armour save, and if you missed it, you could LoS, but then the grunt doesn't get his armour save.

If they all have the same armor save, you can roll saves first then LoS!

If any model in the unit has a different armor save, you roll LoS! first then roll your saves.

For King's example, since the Koptas turbo-boosted, they also have 4+ cover. You can then roll all your saves at the same time (4+) then LOS off the Warboss (if needed).

If the Koptas had not turbo boosted, and the Koptas had a 5+ cover. You would have had to roll LoS off the Warboss first, then rolled (5+) saves on the Koptas.

If all the units are bikes and they all have 4+ cover, then you can roll saves before then LoS!

Gylen wrote:
If they all have the same armor save, you can roll saves first then LoS!

If any model in the unit has a different armor save, you roll LoS! first then roll your saves.

For King's example, since the Koptas turbo-boosted, they also have 4+ cover. You can then roll all your saves at the same time (4+) then LOS off the Warboss (if needed).

If the Koptas had not turbo boosted, and the Koptas had a 5+ cover. You would have had to roll LoS off the Warboss first, then rolled (5+) saves on the Koptas.

If all the units are bikes and they all have 4+ cover, then you can roll saves before then LoS!

I think the first page of the main Rule Book FAQ contradicts this. It mentions to delete the unsaved wounds line and to use the mixed saves if a character is present.

The way we play it is to LoS first and then roll for saves, of any kind.

Rolling LoS first then doing any saves is a safe way of doing it, however, if they all have the same saves then the net result is the same.

I play it LoS then other saves if it fails.

 KingCracker wrote:
Koptas shoot farther with the same weapon, can slpit off and move much farther AND grant hit and run on the Boss. So you shoot the piss out of a unit, assault it into death, and then when its counter assaulted, if youve a kopta left with the boss, just hit and run out of there. Rinse, repeat.

Genius. Hit-and-running Bikerbosses? How often does that work out for you? How well do the deffkoptas survive an assault? Ive never used them for anything other than ranged anti-tank.

virx67 wrote:I play it LoS then other saves if it fails.

That is also how I do it.

Ronin wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Koptas shoot farther with the same weapon, can slpit off and move much farther AND grant hit and run on the Boss. So you shoot the piss out of a unit, assault it into death, and then when its counter assaulted, if youve a kopta left with the boss, just hit and run out of there. Rinse, repeat.

Genius. Hit-and-running Bikerbosses? How often does that work out for you? How well do the deffkoptas survive an assault? Ive never used them for anything other than ranged anti-tank.

Pretty decently actually. And you feel like a badass running out, shooting again and then charging back in.

Also koptas are fairly survivable depending on what your fighting. T5 makes even SM attacks mostly useless. So anything str4 or less you can almost safely laugh at

 KingCracker wrote:
Also koptas are fairly survivable depending on what your fighting. T5 makes even SM attacks mostly useless. So anything str4 or less you can almost safely laugh at

Ah yes, forgot about that. As I said, I barely used mine, and I gave them away to someone who wanted them for bitz. Bummer
Makes deffkoptas a pretty good unit for the Bikerboss to hang out with then. Attaching a Bikerboss to some Biker nobz just make the unit even more of a target priority, and warbikers are only so-so. The TL-Big shootas seem pretty good in a full unit as well, supporting its role as anti-infantry, though I would lament the loss of the TL-rokkits. Deffkoptas are probably one of are more reliable anti-tank units (other than a powerklaw to the hull).

My problem with rokkits in Orks, is you just need a crap load of them to really be effective.....like Tankbustas. Now THEY get enough shots to pretty much guarantee hits. When youve only got a few rokkits zipping around, even with TL in the mix, they are still only so so. Now, mass of TL bigshoota fire OTOH, can pop light transports pretty well and will smoke the squishies that wont be in a transport.

Ive decided to run PK and planks on my trukks in my AV10 spam, since that seems to be where Im going currently. Fast and shooty. Sure its far from auto win, but its fast, hits like a bag full of anvils and is above all a lot of fun. So Im thinking, if I continue to use my buggies as screens and such, all those PK will be able to wreck some vehicle face. Havnt tried it yet, but we shall see

Has anyone played with a Tankbuster squad in a Trukk for popping light vehicles or side armor on LRBT's? I was thinking 5-6 tankbusters, 1 tankhammer in a trukk with RPJ and Boarding Plank. Gives your a fast mobile troop transport can opener. Move your 13" then 12" first turn, then turn 2 move 12" and hit some side armor or move 6" and shoot or assault.

I'm leaning towards the fast shooty army with PKs in the 2nd wave to pop vehicles and a biker boss as well. It seems to be suited to 6th rules.

 Ronin wrote:
Genius. Hit-and-running Bikerbosses? How often does that work out for you? How well do the deffkoptas survive an assault? Ive never used them for anything other than ranged anti-tank.

Warboss has I4 so that's 66% chance of passing the Initiative test. I think the best is to have 4 Deffkoptas for added survivability (8HP + WB is not easy to take down in one close combat round).
So far this team has been useful to me whenever I wanted to destroy an operating unit controlling an objective in the enemy's deployment zone.

 Wingeds wrote:
Has anyone played with a Tankbuster squad in a Trukk for popping light vehicles or side armor on LRBT's? I was thinking 5-6 tankbusters, 1 tankhammer in a trukk with RPJ and Boarding Plank. Gives your a fast mobile troop transport can opener. Move your 13" then 12" first turn, then turn 2 move 12" and hit some side armor or move 6" and shoot or assault.

I'm leaning towards the fast shooty army with PKs in the 2nd wave to pop vehicles and a biker boss as well. It seems to be suited to 6th rules.

You can, and it works ok, but since you can't buy a trukk for them as a dedicated transport you will have an undersized boyz mob footslogging around..

 Wingeds wrote:
Has anyone played with a Tankbuster squad in a Trukk for popping light vehicles or side armor on LRBT's? I was thinking 5-6 tankbusters, 1 tankhammer in a trukk with RPJ and Boarding Plank. Gives your a fast mobile troop transport can opener. Move your 13" then 12" first turn, then turn 2 move 12" and hit some side armor or move 6" and shoot or assault.

As pointed out above, it can work - though I tend to prefer to put them inside Battlewagons for some added protection. I generally toss in enough Tankbustas to get an average of three to four hits, so about 10-12 of them, plus a Nob. This has proved to work really well for me, but it's expensive, and *really* feels like you're pouring a lot of points into a single unit combo.