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 KingCracker wrote:
So again Nym, a model is a model is a model. This is 6th edition, not 4th or 5th, not 1st edition. The rules clearly state what is a model, as in everything is a model. And since the SAG clearly says removes a model from play, that means, you guessed it, it removes a model from play

Play it however you want, I really don't care after all. I lost many hours in 5th arguing with people on the KFF or Deffrola issues, yet that didn't make GW publish the FAQ any faster. I just forgot how silly it was to argue on the internet, so please forgive me.

I'd be glad to know what you guys think of Deffkoptas in 6th though, since nobody answered the first time. It seems to me that they greatly improved and are actually better than Buggies now (especially now that hull points are in), even though they lost the ability to assault from reserve. Anyone's been successful with them ?

25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!

Where did you find this? i'll be needing to find it for a uppcomming tournament

double post sorry.

 Nym wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
So again Nym, a model is a model is a model. This is 6th edition, not 4th or 5th, not 1st edition. The rules clearly state what is a model, as in everything is a model. And since the SAG clearly says removes a model from play, that means, you guessed it, it removes a model from play

Play it however you want, I really don't care after all. I lost many hours in 5th arguing with people on the KFF or Deffrola issues, yet that didn't make GW publish the FAQ any faster. I just forgot how silly it was to argue on the internet, so please forgive me.

I'd be glad to know what you guys think of Deffkoptas in 6th though, since nobody answered the first time. It seems to me that they greatly improved and are actually better than Buggies now (especially now that hull points are in), even though they lost the ability to assault from reserve. Anyone's been successful with them ?

Im not playing however I want, Im playing ti by the rules. There are certainly rules that are muddy at best, but this part of the SAG rules isnt.


As far as deffkoptas go, Id say they are better, simply because I actually use them now in 6th. Are they better then buggies? Maybe. I use buggies still and so far, to good effect, but I definitely had to change how they were used a bit. They were easily better in 5th edition, but rules changes to certain things changed how they are played in 6th in a big way. Ive been running koptas stock though, and with a buzzsaw on one of them usually, and zip around with a bikerboss.

I suppose the SAG rules will be something my opponent's will likely argue about it a lot though.

RaW, both happen. The codex does not use "instead". As such, as insane as it sounds, I am leaning towards the vehicle popping out of existence. Which means... I'm somewhat motivated to use it some more

Still having trouble writing lists in 6th, trying to find a new solid ground. Considering that vehicles can now move much faster (Trukks can move up to 24", Battlewagons up to 18"), my Kanz are getting left behind. So, as much as I love the Grotzookas, they may start dropping from the lists. I'll try out the Deffkoptas though, I've got about 9 of them lying around in various states of disrepair (damned propellers keep breaking off).

Good thing about orks, missing 1 or 2 blades and it still looks orky and do-able

25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!

anyone who can confirm this? and if they do, please link the releated site. (faq) or page.

6th really did take some getting used to. In 5th I ran mostly a horde, and thanks to shooting in 6th, I feel like I just dont have enough boyz to weather the storm. Which is why I started switching to AV10 spam. As mentioned, vehicles simply fething haul ass now, and my AV10 spam, I cover 24 inches in 1 turn....1 TURN! Im IN my opponents face turn 1 unless its short table edges. Even though assault took a hit, Im still finding myself jumping into the assault, Orks are still decent at clubbing things to death, and as long as your smart as far as what units your charging, Overwatch isnt scary at all.

phatonic wrote:
25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!

anyone who can confirm this? and if they do, please link the releated site. (faq) or page.

Its 1 re-roll for every 5 people in the "same combat" watching

phatonic wrote:
25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!

anyone who can confirm this? and if they do, please link the releated site. (faq) or page.

consider it confirmed, pg 65 BRB second paragraph

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

phatonic wrote:
25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!

anyone who can confirm this? and if they do, please link the releated site. (faq) or page.

Its 1 re-roll for every 5 people in the "same combat" watching

To be more specific, if in an assault, the only remaining enemy is an enemy character in a challenge with your character - the boyz obviously have no one to hit. As such, they instead provide inspiration to your character in the challenge. For every 5 models, the character may re-roll a single dice involved in that challenge.

If there are other enemies in the combat not involved in the challenge, the boyz don't provide support, and just try to pile in and kill the other guys in the combat.

Thanks for the reply Kharrak.

So I'm back to playing my Orks after being a bit dissapointed with them in 6th and I've decided to build up an army that I've wanted to do since I first started, the Warbiker list.

The army is pretty straight foward, Biker Boss & Wazdakka escorted around with Nob Bikers. A whole bunch of Warbikers to fill out the troops and then some Deff Kopta squads for some ranged Anti-Tank support.

I've already started building and painting the army but the thing that's really getting me is how I should field the Warbikers. What's the optimum size for them? Am I better off with large squads or should I go for more smaller squads trying to shove in as many PKs as I can?

I'd say start with 6 squads of mins, then fill the squads out as you have points for.

If it's gonna be an all-biker list, I feel 6-8 is a decent size. If you were only running the one or two, would probably bump it up to 9+.

So I think we might have talked about this before, but what do you guys think about converting some WFB Black Orcs to be Meganobz? I think it could work well, but im not sure how to make them more "40k" like.

build an engine on the back of the armour.

Attach flexible piping to the joints.

Big-ass guns and SM helmet base deco go well too

 Kasrkin229 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I thought the smoke save specifically said a 4+ save? If that's the case, it would remain a +4 save even with the change to 6th, as it's a specific rule for the bikes. Codex usually trumps rulebook when it comes to specific rules, and if the codex specifically says, "bikes always get a +4 cover save from the smoke cloud", then they'll be completely unchanged.

I'm more worried about the status of bikes in general in 6th. Curious if they'll get a minor tweak or a major rule change...

Well then why am i not allowed to use my " Lumberin Behometh " special Rule on my Leman russ's ? Its annoying but the Rule book does trump codex in some areas

Except, you know, Lumbering Behemoth was specifically FAQ'd to be replaced with "heavy vehicle" now (CURSE YOU GW) whereas "Exhaust Cloud" (the +4 cover save for warbikes rule) is still in the orks codex, and has not been eratta'd in any way. If the rule book always trumped codex, 90% of the special characters and units would be almost useless as none of their abilities would do anything. Your logic is really confusing.

Bikes in general get the +5 cover save. Ork bikes get a +4 because their codex specifically gives them that ability. And they're still quite pricy for what they do. There really isn't anything more to it. Ork bikes have a +4 cover save, even if they sit still. Other bikes don't have that because they have the unfortunate fact that they will never be as awesome as ork bikes are.

 Ronin wrote:
If it's gonna be an all-biker list, I feel 6-8 is a decent size. If you were only running the one or two, would probably bump it up to 9+.

For me all depends on the point limit for your build. I'd say 6-7 is the best way to go, 10 biker nobz would cost an arm, a leg and too much teeth for your regular army.

 Billagio wrote:
So I think we might have talked about this before, but what do you guys think about converting some WFB Black Orcs to be Meganobz? I think it could work well, but im not sure how to make them more "40k" like.

As far as I'm concerned, I bought a box of Black Orcs along with a box of 40k Nobz. That's 20 badass Nobz you can customize the way you like.
Mix bitz and enjoy!

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Other bikes don't have that because they have the unfortunate fact that they will never be as awesome as ork bikes are.

True, true, true!

I just ran a 1500 point Ork + Necron list against Space Marines (Including a LRC). Huge success!

Wraiths + DL tackle full tac squads with ease.

Koptas softened up devastators and wiped them.

My boyz managed to beat assault terminators in CC!

Now to test it out against IG/Tau.

Dr. What wrote:
My boyz managed to beat assault terminators in CC!.

Boyz (even Trukk Boyz) are generally only afraid of LC terminators. Past that, they have the quantity of attacks to force those rolls of 1.

Agreed. I throw my boyz at fething everything a SpaceMarine army has to offer, with LC termies as the exception . Even Lysander and company has felt the wrath of a gak load of boyz. Ive wiped a drop pod unit of Sternguard with a lowly trukk mob a few times as well. Boyz should generally be your answer to most problems, sure there are things they really shouldnt tangle with, but that list is MUCH shorter then the list of things they should be thrown at

I know the "Big Squiggoth" topic has already been brought here pointwise - 50 points is good for a transport with a Tougness value, though much slower than a Trukk. However, a couple of questions do remain.

1/ Would the "Relentless" MC special rule apply to units embarked in a Big Squiggoth, e.g. Lootas?
2/ Would an embarked Painboy's "Feel No Pain" special rule apply to the Big Squiggoth model?

I'd go with yes for both of them but any confirmation would be appreciated.

These creatures are Heavy Support, so playing 2-3 of them won't allow you to field BWs other than dedicated transport vehicles - not under 2K points anyway. They are extra cheap though, and I assume they can be deadly in smaller games, ie @500 or 750 points. For bigger games, I'd like to try a couple of them carrying 10 Lootas each, instead of using an ADL with quadri.

edit: Sorry this is Forgeworld again but I expect this unit to be valid in the rumoured Ork Codex!

They are seperate units, so IIRC the relentless rule would only apply to the squiggoth, and the FNP would only apply to the unit with the painboy.

 Bonzofever wrote:
I know the "Big Squiggoth" topic has already been brought here pointwise - 50 points is good for a transport with a Tougness value, though much slower than a Trukk. However, a couple of questions do remain.

1/ Would the "Relentless" MC special rule apply to units embarked in a Big Squiggoth, e.g. Lootas?

Nope, regular transports are relentless, too, so not much difference here. To passengers, being embarked on a squiggoth is only different from being embarked on any other transport in one situation: You are not disallowed from shooting if your transport made a ran during it's shooting phase.

2/ Would an embarked Painboy's "Feel No Pain" special rule apply to the Big Squiggoth model?

A squiggoth can never be in the same unit as a painboy (or pain boss, grotznik, etc), so no. Embarking doesn't impact this at all.
You could cybork them though.

I'd go with yes for both of them but any confirmation would be appreciated.

These creatures are Heavy Support, so playing 2-3 of them won't allow you to field BWs other than dedicated transport vehicles - not under 2K points anyway. They are extra cheap though, and I assume they can be deadly in smaller games, ie @500 or 750 points. For bigger games, I'd like to try a couple of them carrying 10 Lootas each, instead of using an ADL with quadri.

edit: Sorry this is Forgeworld again but I expect this unit to be valid in the rumoured Ork Codex!

Food for thought: Burnaz can still stack templates from the squiggoths back, including overwatch. Keep in mind that a squiggoth locked in combat cannot be shot by your enemy, so you can scorch some unit and then charge your squiggoth into combat.

Thanks Jidmah for your answer, much appreciated - even if the big idea about lootas has just collapsed.

 Jidmah wrote:
Food for thought: Burnaz can still stack templates from the squiggoths back, including overwatch. Keep in mind that a squiggoth locked in combat cannot be shot by your enemy, so you can scorch some unit and then charge your squiggoth into combat.

What do you mean? Boyz embarked in a Squiggoth can scorch the hell out of unit locked in combat with the Big Squiggoth?
Also, aren't the Burnaz able to stack templates wherever they please, just like an open-topped vehicle?
A couple of squiggoths transporting 10x burnaz is a good idea indeed. But if the Squiggoth runs, they can't fire their weapons because of snap shot, right?

Sorry that's a lot of questions.

I should probably mentioned that the termies were:

4 Dual LC
1 TH/SS
1 Termy Libby with a SS
Only lost 12 boyz and the Nob (Big Choppa) in the ordeal.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Thanks Jidmah for your answer, much appreciated - even if the big idea about lootas has just collapsed.

 Jidmah wrote:
Food for thought: Burnaz can still stack templates from the squiggoths back, including overwatch. Keep in mind that a squiggoth locked in combat cannot be shot by your enemy, so you can scorch some unit and then charge your squiggoth into combat.

What do you mean? Boyz embarked in a Squiggoth can scorch the hell out of unit locked in combat with the Big Squiggoth?

No, he's saying that while a battlewagon full of burnas would normally cremate something, and then have their wagon and them shot to oblivion your next turn, the burnas on the squiggoth could turn a unit into a crackling conflaguration and then the squiggoth could charge a unit, preventing it and your burnas from being shot.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Also, aren't the Burnaz able to stack templates wherever they please, just like an open-topped vehicle?

Yes, Jidmah was just pointing out that they can still do so on the squiggoth.

 Bonzofever wrote:
A couple of squiggoths transporting 10x burnaz is a good idea indeed. But if the Squiggoth runs, they can't fire their weapons because of snap shot, right?

I'm not sure about this one. But i think they could still fire. Burnas are assault weapons for a reason.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Sorry that's a lot of questions.

Let me start by saying I actually took the time to read this entire thread over the course of a few weeks and I must say OP, well done.

I played a KoS list today against my friend's marines and it did surprisingly well.
I had
Warboss EA,BP,CB,PK,AS
Kommandos x8 nob w/PK and a burna in the squad
5 Nobz w/ EA,BC and a painboy in a truck w/ RR
3 squads of trukk boys w/ nob w/PK
9 Warbuggies w/TL rockets

I went second, but got a first turn charge w/ my kommandos. I found that the spped and the wall of cover really helped my boys get into krumpin. The Nobz did extraordinarily as well. They are not bikers, but they still hit really hard, and who doesn't love 6 S10 AP2 attacks from a warboss coming out of a truck.
I field kommandos quite often and I find that they really help as an area denial/interceptor unit for vehicles primarily. Mostly everytime I use them they at least blow up a predator or vindicator, and I'm not charging on turn 1 if I go first, but since you can place them ahead of your boys, the threat range of your assaults on enemy vehicles increases so they must either deal with them or not move into the threat range, that's a 115 point squad. They always work great for me. I also like throwing a stikkbomb with the burna so he can get his PW hits in. It's a neat change.

Under the Pros section it says:

5.) Snap fire is huge for Orks. Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12"

This is actually BS 1 (hitting on sixes not twos).