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So you're infiltrating them more than you're Outflanking? Interesting... Do you use the Burnas as Power Weapons, then?

Yea, the burna can throw a stikkbomb instead of using his burna for the power weapon

Actually... He can do both, can't he? Throw a Stikkbomm during the Shooting phase, then Power Weapon in the Assault...

That's actually pretty neat! And really makes Kommandos a big threat to smaller Vanguard-type enemy units, up in your face.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Thanks Jidmah for your answer, much appreciated - even if the big idea about lootas has just collapsed.

 Jidmah wrote:
Food for thought: Burnaz can still stack templates from the squiggoths back, including overwatch. Keep in mind that a squiggoth locked in combat cannot be shot by your enemy, so you can scorch some unit and then charge your squiggoth into combat.

What do you mean? Boyz embarked in a Squiggoth can scorch the hell out of unit locked in combat with the Big Squiggoth?
Also, aren't the Burnaz able to stack templates wherever they please, just like an open-topped vehicle?
A couple of squiggoths transporting 10x burnaz is a good idea indeed. But if the Squiggoth runs, they can't fire their weapons because of snap shot, right?

Sorry that's a lot of questions.

See loota boyz post, he pretty much answered all of them

About running squiggoths: There is no rule which says that running transports have any impact on their passengers, so they don't.

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Let me start by saying I actually took the time to read this entire thread over the course of a few weeks and I must say OP, well done.

Thanks!

Also, one question for you, how did your Kommandos get a first round charge when Infiltrators cannot charge on the round they infiltrate?

or am I wrong on that?

 matphat wrote:

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Let me start by saying I actually took the time to read this entire thread over the course of a few weeks and I must say OP, well done.

Thanks!

Also, one question for you, how did your Kommandos get a first round charge when Infiltrators cannot charge on the round they infiltrate?

or am I wrong on that?

Slightly wrong.

They cannot charge on the first turn. When turn is stated in the rule book, it always mean player turn. It is even clarified to say this in the FAQ.

It does make sense. The other player has a chance to shoot them, move out of the way, etc. before you get to do anything.

Here is how it has been working for me.
Let's say I win the roll of to see who goes first, I then choose to go second.
We deploy armies as normal, then after everyone is done deploying you do the infiltrators. Let's just say there is no LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the field. The maximum I can put them is 18" away from the enemy. With 24" being the no man's land at the start of the game, usually my kommandos deploy 6" in front of my trunks (which are at the edge of my deployment zone).
Now then since the kommandos infiltrated they cannot charge in the first player turn of the game, but since I am going second, that restriction is lifted. My opponent now has to either shoot them or go around their threat range if he wants to neuter the unit. Average charge range is 7 inches and kommandos have move through cover. Almost always get a 5 or 6 on that roll, so its around 12-13 inches that makes up their threat range.
I try to put them in areas that need more TLC in the battle. close to a thick of objectives, or near w valuable piece of terrain, or even as a speartip for the trukker boys.
It doesn't work all the time, and to be honest most of the time I had a first turn charge with them it was because of obscene charge rolls (5,5,6 through cover). But they are a great unit for that, the kommandoz can glance rear armor 10 with A4 on the charge and the burna like I said earlier mostly uses stikkbombs in the shooting phase, unless I'm close to something where it would destroy them (IG, orks, camo cloaks etc)

had the worst kicking of my orks life last week. I mean my orks have lost, but not like this.



We played 1850...

I ran something like:

biker boss
megaboss

lootas x 5 ( x 2)

meganobz x 5 (2 skorchas) in a rollla wagon

Nob bikers x 5 2 pk, painboy banner etc

2 mobs of trukk boys 12 strong with a pk nob in one, bc nob in other

1 mob of 20 boys in a rolla wagon

10 gretchin

dakkajet extra fixins



that was it..


He had.... IG/GK allies

IG:
Aegis line w/ lascannon
CCS
marbo
2 leman russes w/ battle cannons/heavy bolters (accidently shot bolters at full bs instead of snap shots each turn)
1 manticore
2 hydras
4-5 chimeras full of infantry
10~ vets w/ meltas
heavy weapons lascannon team x 2
Auto cannon heavy weapons team x1 or 2

GK:
coteaz
5 purifiers mix of weapons, psycannon too i think
5 strike marines mix of swords/halbreds and psycannons as well + razorback


We ran out of time, so had to call game at end of T5.... I had 10 gretchin and 6 lootas alive vs... practically everything he had... I killed purfieirs, coteaz, marbo, 1 chimera, vets, 1 squad of guardsmen, CCS, and a razorback... if that.

We were playing the relic and longways which hurt... but I controlled the middle of the board for the majority of the game... In fact it came down to a single dice roll to decide the game... he unloaded everything he had on 4 boyz / 2 meganobs near relic and kiled 4 boys with the relic and 1 meganob and put 1 wound on the other... then came down to 2 last wounds from whatever it was, which he passed one, and failed one!!... He was 3-4" from the relic and unengaged, I still would have had my turn 5 as I went second... So for giggles we went ahead and rolled his LD check/move thru cover to see what would have happen had I rolled 2 2+'s there instead of 1... and a 5 or comes up!!! victory (due to brevity of the game.. we never rolled on it though as we had time constraints) might have actually gone to the orks had I not failed that save, but I did.

Woulda been sweet to make out with the relic and win the game with a mega nob 10 gretchin and 6 lootas vs. all of his army though... bittersweet maybe lol. I didn't want to win like that though, so I'm glad my friend got his first W on me but.... man his new list is REALLY rough...


Turn 1... nightfighting random chimera spot lights nob bikers who get manticored, leman russed, etc to the point of having only the warboss alive with 1 wound left....

My deffrolla wagon with MANZ immobilizedthemselveds on turn 1 also... in my own deployment zone before moving a single inch 1/36 chance.. cmon!!!!


I think he is dropping russes, pickin up 2nd manticore, dropping purifiers in lieu of 5 more strikers... adding autocannon to CCS and using quad gun over icarus.



I have thought of putting MANZ in a trukk, put 20 boys x 2 in wagons and another squad of 10-12 in a truckk.... (limited # of shoota boys.. i think around 36 or so... could try and convert some more up before next time or proxy my chppa boys.

Considering adding rokkit buggies, or rokkit copters... (i think copters outflanking possibly with biker boss attached can be devestating to this type of army....)

Considering dropping bikers down to 3 or 4

Considering dropping manz from 5 to 4


I really do not want to tailor my list to beat him specifically, its supposed to be a take-all-comers list. I figured you all should have some pretty good advice.

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Here is how it has been working for me.
Let's say I win the roll of to see who goes first, I then choose to go second.
We deploy armies as normal, then after everyone is done deploying you do the infiltrators. Let's just say there is no LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the field. The maximum I can put them is 18" away from the enemy. With 24" being the no man's land at the start of the game, usually my kommandos deploy 6" in front of my trunks (which are at the edge of my deployment zone).
Now then since the kommandos infiltrated they cannot charge in the first player turn of the game, but since I am going second, that restriction is lifted.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood you. It appears that your saying if you go second (or choose to go second) you can charge during turn 1 with infiltrators. I'd like to know where it says that this restriction is dropped, because the rulebook says under Infiltrate "A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn." meaning neither player can charge with infiltrating units during turn 1. It has nothing to do with being first or second player during turn 1.

Your kommandos may seem awesome cause your playing them wrong.

Phydox wrote:

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Here is how it has been working for me.
Let's say I win the roll of to see who goes first, I then choose to go second.
We deploy armies as normal, then after everyone is done deploying you do the infiltrators. Let's just say there is no LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the field. The maximum I can put them is 18" away from the enemy. With 24" being the no man's land at the start of the game, usually my kommandos deploy 6" in front of my trunks (which are at the edge of my deployment zone).
Now then since the kommandos infiltrated they cannot charge in the first player turn of the game, but since I am going second, that restriction is lifted.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood you. It appears that your saying if you go second (or choose to go second) you can charge during turn 1 with infiltrators. I'd like to know where it says that this restriction is dropped, because the rulebook says under Infiltrate "A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn." meaning neither player can charge with infiltrating units during turn 1. It has nothing to do with being first or second player during turn 1.

Your kommandos may seem awesome cause your playing them wrong.

i think that "turn" in the BRB means "player turn" by default, and not game turn.

Infiltrators, scouts etc would use their abilities cannot assault on player turn 1 from my understanding, not game turn 1.

It's been clarified in the latest Rulebook FAQ( v1.0a) as well. In the main rulebook, all instances of "turn" refers to "player turn". Rulebook states a unit deploying using Infiltrator may not charge in the first turn, ergo first player's turn. Not first game turn. So if you're going second, you may charge.

Phydox wrote:

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Here is how it has been working for me.
Let's say I win the roll of to see who goes first, I then choose to go second.
We deploy armies as normal, then after everyone is done deploying you do the infiltrators. Let's just say there is no LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the field. The maximum I can put them is 18" away from the enemy. With 24" being the no man's land at the start of the game, usually my kommandos deploy 6" in front of my trunks (which are at the edge of my deployment zone).
Now then since the kommandos infiltrated they cannot charge in the first player turn of the game, but since I am going second, that restriction is lifted.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood you. It appears that your saying if you go second (or choose to go second) you can charge during turn 1 with infiltrators. I'd like to know where it says that this restriction is dropped, because the rulebook says under Infiltrate "A unit that deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn." meaning neither player can charge with infiltrating units during turn 1. It has nothing to do with being first or second player during turn 1.

Your kommandos may seem awesome cause your playing them wrong.

Read the current Rulebook FAQ

Q: Can a unit with both the Infiltrate and Scout special rules deploy
as Infiltrators and then make a Scout redeployment before the game
begins? (p38)
A: Yes.
Q: The rulebook states "A unit that makes a Scout redeployment
cannot charge in the first turn." Does this mean that if your
opponent has the first turn and you go second, your Scouting unit
can charge? (p41)
A: Yes

Scout says the same thing in the rulebook, that a unit that does a scout move cannot charge in the first turn. But reading that FAQ above, it says if you go 2nd that you CAN charge. So since the wording is the same for infiltrators, you can use the same logic. It says you cant assault on the first turn, but since the FAQ says you can if your second, then charge away.

So if you don't redeploy you can charge?

Yes if you don't redeploy scouts you can charge turn one if you go first, highly unlikely that you will be in range though.

Another idea that I need to playtest is snikrot + kommandoz arriving from reserve, the nerf to assault means that you have to possibly survive some shooting before you charge, so I was thinking of putting a big mek w/ kff attached to the squad as infiltrate now confers to the unit

So a 16 man squad w/ 2characters and you can fit 2 burnaz come in from the most appropriate table edge with A cover save.

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Yes if you don't redeploy scouts you can charge turn one if you go first, highly unlikely that you will be in range though.

Another idea that I need to playtest is snikrot + kommandoz arriving from reserve, the nerf to assault means that you have to possibly survive some shooting before you charge, so I was thinking of putting a big mek w/ kff attached to the squad as infiltrate now confers to the unit

So a 16 man squad w/ 2characters and you can fit 2 burnaz come in from the most appropriate table edge with A cover save.

Very costly though.

You could also do Ghaz still. When you come in, pick a nice rock to hide behind. Then, the next turn, pop out from behind the rock and wreck faces. (Burnas on the Kommandos might be good as well).

Fit 3 Burnas, if you're taking a Big Mek. KFFMeks can still take Burnas.

Dr. What wrote:

PotionsN'Balms wrote:
Yes if you don't redeploy scouts you can charge turn one if you go first, highly unlikely that you will be in range though.

Another idea that I need to playtest is snikrot + kommandoz arriving from reserve, the nerf to assault means that you have to possibly survive some shooting before you charge, so I was thinking of putting a big mek w/ kff attached to the squad as infiltrate now confers to the unit

So a 16 man squad w/ 2characters and you can fit 2 burnaz come in from the most appropriate table edge with A cover save.

Very costly though.

You could also do Ghaz still. When you come in, pick a nice rock to hide behind. Then, the next turn, pop out from behind the rock and wreck faces. (Burnas on the Kommandos might be good as well).

ghaz is twice as expensive as w bigmek... With not much more to offer than a warboss in PA and an AS... And cybork

Or you bring mad dok grotznik for FNP/5++ for the whole lot of them. You can't get them more survivable than that.

Instead of using Killa Kans... what do ya'll think of Grots Battle Tanks?

 whembly wrote:
Instead of using Killa Kans... what do ya'll think of Grots Battle Tanks?

I've got a squadron of them. I *loved* them in 5th, but I'm wary of using them in 6th. In 5th, I used them as a way to field Kustom Mega Blastas for great effect (5 shots at bs3!) - but now that Get's Hot affects vehicles, you have a 30% chance for them to lose a hull point for each volley they fire - and with 2 hull points each, it hurts.

I've not played them enough in 6th to really see if they suffer that much from it, but I recognise the danger well enough.

Do note that their price can build up quickly. The build I had, which had 4 tanks, with a Kommanda, all with KMB's (the Kommanda having a second one), came to 235pts. Considering they can move 2D6 but always fire, and each causes a separate tank shock check, and each has a passive 5+ invul, I found them well worth it in 5th. May start to field them with Rokkits instead, for about 205pts.

Yeah, the Get's Hot rule change really hurt Kustom Mega Blastas on our vehicles :( For that reason, I'm not convinced that grot tanks are much better than kanz under the current rules - hopefully that will all change when (or if) we get a new codex

Naw, Orks are incredibly popular, we WILL get a dex, its the question of when.

Am I right in thinking outflank still confers to dedicated transports of units which have the rule.

Thus Snikrot could hitch a ride in a Nobs' Mob's dedicated Battlewagon?

If he could attach himself to the Nobs. But he can't, because he's an Upgrade 'character' for Kommandos.

I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

TedNugent wrote:

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

You dont, because KFF works per unit, not per model.

TedNugent wrote:
I've been reading through the rulebook again and I caught a couple of things that really worry me.

One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Two, this whole Focus Fire thing and per model cover save rules - good lord, how the hell does anybody fit 20-30 Ork Boyz behind a piece of cover? Is it even possible to fit 20 models within a 6" KFF bubble?

you just need 1 model within 6" of the KFF and the whole unit gets the 5+.

That's never changed.

Anvildude wrote:
That's never changed.

Oh thank god.

TedNugent wrote:
One, Painboyz are characters? Sounds like they could just get picked off in challenges...

Yep, they are not great in a challenge. As to why would you accept the challenge? I don't really have an answer for that.