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Agreed. There are no other meks than the three which can lead burna/loota squads. A big mek is a mekboy as much as a chapter master is a tactical marine. If anything he is a meknob.

 Billagio wrote:
I dont know why he thinks orks are bad army... Maybe hes not playing them right?

From the way hes been bashing them in EVERY Orks thread on here? Id guess hes either a Stelek follower on a mission. Or he bought his Ork army in 5th edition as suggested by a netlister, and now that the BEST ork build in 5th, is at best, so so in 6th, he is bitching because he cannot win. Im going with the latter.

 KingCracker wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I dont know why he thinks orks are bad army... Maybe hes not playing them right?

From the way hes been bashing them in EVERY Orks thread on here? Id guess hes either a Stelek follower on a mission. Or he bought his Ork army in 5th edition as suggested by a netlister, and now that the BEST ork build in 5th, is at best, so so in 6th, he is bitching because he cannot win. Im going with the latter.

I play SW and Ork really have lost there bite over each edition, dose anyone remember the dread chopper.
The mob up rule ment you really have to worry about Orks in melee and you had to kill every last Ork.
After the 4ed codex i started seeing Warboss with units of Nobs run off the table from shooting.
No more choppers thank the emperor ( about time i got my 2+ reroll save )
But saddy Orks still had a chance of winning melee if they had a Nob with a PK but now thanks to the Challenge rule
i can ether solo the Nob with a Wolf Lord ( 5 re-rolls are very helpful when your dead ) or just have the WG challenge the Nob so he only gets 1 wound on the combat and then have the GH finish off the unit. FYI this also work on the Big Mek
Also Ratlings consistently kill the Big Mek turn 1 for less points then a Vindicares Assassin and i still get a Leman Russ Battle Tank

So maybe York is right. In a tournament draw i got tyranids as my first opponent and my first thought was easy win not what is his army list.
i feel the same way about Orks in 6ed and so do most people i know.

Man, you're really set on doing this, eh?

I wonder if you actually have played orks, or are just looking for places to try and stir up "strong emotions". (Hey, maybe it's someone who's upset that Orks are still playable in 6th).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I'm looking to create a Dakka Wall list, I've written up something as such:

HQ:
Bigmek + SAG

ELITES
Lootas x 15
Lootas x 15
Lootas x 6 (3 changed to Meks)

TROOPS
20 x Shoota Boyz, 2x Big Shootas, Nob w/ BP + PK
20 x Shoota Boyz, 2x Big Shootas, Nob w/ BP + PK
20 x Shoota Boyz, 2x Big Shootas, Nob w/ BP + PK
10 x Grots + Runtherder

FAST ATTACK
Dakka Jet w/ Fighta Ace + Additional Supa Shoota

HEAVY SUPPORT
Big Guns - x3 Kannons, 10 Grot Crew
Big Guns - x3 Kannons, 10 Grot Crew
Battlewagon - 'Ard Case, x2 Big Shootas, Supa Kannon

FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun

The smaller unit of Lootas with Meks sit in the Battlewagon on repair duty, while the SAG Mek sits with one of the Big Guns unit. All the units (save the Shoota Boyz, potentially) stay behind the ADL and unleash hell across the board. I'd very much like to have a second Dakka Jet, but at 1750pts it's tough to fit the bugger in. The Shoota Boyz, depending on the mission, may rap around the wall to prevent any deep striking and/or infiltrating and/or outflanking shenanigans, though I'm unsure how to deal with them past that. So used to keeping them as a 2nd/3rd wave unit in an aggressive Ork force.

The Supa Kannon (A Forgeworld upgrade for the Battlewagon) on the Battlewagon is 60", str9, ap3, ordnance (at 10pts cheaper than a Killkanon) - and should provide some nice longer range support, though it reduces carrying capacity to 6. I COULD free up 30pts and replace it with a Lifta Droppa, and risk dealing with that 4+ hit-or-no-hit.

Or should I really cut away points to afford that second Dakka Jet?

Running this list tonight. Does anyone else feel like the Ork meta is just completely blown? I feel like all sorts of strange army builds of mine have been seeing more success. This particular list has been doing really well.

HQ:
Warboss w/ PK, Warbike, Cybork, BP, Attack Squig
Big Mek w/ KFF, ‘eavy armor, Cybork
[255]

Elite:
10 Lootas
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
[300]

Troops
9 Nob Warbikers w/ Painboy and Orderly, 2 PK, 3 BC, Cybork, BP, Waaagh Banner
19 Shoota Boyz w/ 1 Big Shoota, Nob w/ PK, BP, ‘Eavy armor
20 Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas Nob w/ PK, BP, ‘Eavy armor
[819]

Fast:
3 Deffkopta w/ TL Bigshootas
2 Wartrakk w/ RPJ, TL rokkits
2 Wartrakk w/ RPJ, TL rokkits
[285]

Heavy:
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, Riggers, 3x Big shootas, Kannon
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, Riggers, 3x Big shootas, Kannon
[290]

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line

[1999]

Boss stays in reserve with Deffkoptas for outflank, Wartrakks speed out front to pop light transports and run interference and beef up target saturation, Battlewagons push one flank to maintain pressure while bikers turboboot into priority targets. Lootas sit behind the Aegis and shell out a ton of anti-armor and pressure elite units.

Are you giving up first blood a lot in that list with the 5 man loota units?

I run x5 lootas all the time, and I rarely lose firstblood because of them

I run 5 lootas x 3 alot, and rarely if ever give up first blood with them.. I mean... go to ground in any area terrain for 3+ or 2+ when can find some ruins between you and the firer... or 3+/2+ when night fighting in effect w/o going to ground most times.

If someone wastes good fire power on 5 dudes who will go to ground.... I'm all for that!


I don't even care if they get first blood on them, which they rarely do. because they would probably score first blood on a trukk anyways (unless i get to go first and can pop a transport with rokkits/lootas)







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 matphat wrote:
Running this list tonight. Does anyone else feel like the Ork meta is just completely blown? I feel like all sorts of strange army builds of mine have been seeing more success. This particular list has been doing really well.

HQ:
Warboss w/ PK, Warbike, Cybork, BP, Attack Squig
Big Mek w/ KFF, ‘eavy armor, Cybork
[255]

Elite:
10 Lootas
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
[300]

Troops
9 Nob Warbikers w/ Painboy and Orderly, 2 PK, 3 BC, Cybork, BP, Waaagh Banner
19 Shoota Boyz w/ 1 Big Shoota, Nob w/ PK, BP, ‘Eavy armor
20 Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas Nob w/ PK, BP, ‘Eavy armor
[819]

Fast:
3 Deffkopta w/ TL Bigshootas
2 Wartrakk w/ RPJ, TL rokkits
2 Wartrakk w/ RPJ, TL rokkits
[285]

Heavy:
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, Riggers, 3x Big shootas, Kannon
Battle Wagon w/ Deffrolla, RPJ, Riggers, 3x Big shootas, Kannon
[290]

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line

[1999]

Boss stays in reserve with Deffkoptas for outflank, Wartrakks speed out front to pop light transports and run interference and beef up target saturation, Battlewagons push one flank to maintain pressure while bikers turboboot into priority targets. Lootas sit behind the Aegis and shell out a ton of anti-armor and pressure elite units.

It's strange to me the shift that ork lists are having... I used to run max 40 boys at 2k... now run 46 - 58 I think? 18 x 2 and 10 x 1 and 12 x 1 ... so while I used to LOVE running less boys, I'm having more fun playing with more recently. I can remember the negative reception I have on dakka when I confessed I only ran 40 boys at 2k. I have more fun recently because my playstyle is different than what it has been, but I feel like I'm not quite as competitive. IDK though. Haven't got to play a lot recently....

Strange, or neat though that others are starting to think boys-light lists might do alright/actually be competitive.... Makes me feel good that others have had similiar results with lists like that. A lot better than reception I had previously when bringing up lists with just 40 boys at 2k... lol

That's an interesting point about the lootas. If you've got an empty El slots, switch it around to 5 mans. 3 to 6 - 5 man loota squads would probably be annoying as hell to deal with.

I've been running boyz light lists recently with average success. I can't say for certain it was due to only having a few boyz though. The reason being is I've been taking a unit of mega nobs and a unit of nob bikers with two units of boyz in a battlewagon.

Next game, I'm going to try running 4 battlewagons full of boyz to see how that works

3000 points
ORKS:
Big Mek w/ KKF
Mad Doc
2 x Warboss w/ eavy armour, bosspole, PK

4 x 5 lootas

5 Meganobs w/ CB

19 shoota boyz + Nob w/ PK, EA, BP
18 shoota boyz + Nob w/ PK, EA, BP [mek goes here]
18 shoota boyz + Nob [warboss goes here]
18 shoota boyz + Nob [warboss goes here]

4 x Battlewagon w/ deffrolla, grot riggers, 2x big shootas, RPJ
Big gunz w/ 3 kannons + 9 grots
Looted wagon w/ RPJ + Ram

ADL w/ Quad gun

IG:
CCS w/ 4 plasma

Marbo

Vet squad w/ Autocannon + 3 plasma

Venedetta

Maincore


Basic strategy:
Meganobs go in Looted Wagon --> up the table
Shoota boyz go in each battlewagon --> up the table
Lootas + Big Gunz go behind ADL or in high ground
CCS + Vet squad go behind the ADL going to ground and using GBITF to get up and fire at full BS (they also fire the quad gun).
Manicore hides

The meganobs are troops, but they can't really score with the Doc. Around T5, I'll start putting him in challenges to hope he dies if necessary.

random tactical note about mad doc....


if you make him warlord, and he gets outflank ability.... imagine the possibilities... outflanking manz w/ FNP? Umm... sign me up! (if they got kombi skorchas might end up roasting somethin the turn they drive on too)...


Regardless of him getting outflank... if you hold his vehicle in reserve you can deploy/insert it wherever you want from your long edge, and more or less "pick" what unit he has to drive towards to prevent kiting.


But then you won't have him/MANZ hitting AS soon.... When I run them I typically deploy them centrally so it doesn't matter too much which way he ends up going.


i mean if someone is shooting a manticore at your lootas, or anything for that matter... I sure would rather them kill/route a 5 man squad instead of a 10... and I rarely use my elite slots so!

If you're taking Nobs and Big Shootas in squads, give the Big Shootas to the Nobs (yes, you are allowed to do that). That way, any es they roll with the Str.5 weapon can be allocated.

Anvildude wrote:
If you're taking Nobs and Big Shootas in squads, give the Big Shootas to the Nobs (yes, you are allowed to do that). That way, any es they roll with the Str.5 weapon can be allocated.

^ I started giving my nobz big shoota's gitfindas/scopes etc to represent their ability to do this.

Be prepared people will argue with you that a nob isn't an ork

I just got my hands on IA 8, and I'm wondering: which is the best way to run the dread mob army list? I was thinking of using it as a kind of "dread wall" using dreads and mega dreads kind of like the the old kan walls. I just don't know what to put behind the walls. should my spanna and burna boyz be on foot, in scrap tucks so I can use my FA and HS slots for more kans and mega dreads, in warcoptas to spam invul saves, or in big trakks for durability?

skyfi wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
If you're taking Nobs and Big Shootas in squads, give the Big Shootas to the Nobs (yes, you are allowed to do that). That way, any es they roll with the Str.5 weapon can be allocated.

^ I started giving my nobz big shoota's gitfindas/scopes etc to represent their ability to do this.

Be prepared people will argue with you that a nob isn't an ork

Honestly, thats good advice. Be prepared to prove to people that Nobz can indeed take a Bigshoota. If they still dont believe you, show them the nob in the back of the book that has a bigshoota

Or tell them to look at the GW website

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1060144

I've had a few folks say 'well that's just an illegal conversion' about the guy on pg 88 of the codex, but this guy isn't

NamelessBard wrote:
Are you giving up first blood a lot in that list with the 5 man loota units?

Actually, in spite of how it looks, the Lootas are some of the hardest to kill in that list because they way in the back field and are going to ground behind the Aegis when threatened. Makes them tough. I also tend to have some boyz back there running interference if I see deep strikers, etc..

Also, a quick update on my game last night, with the list above. It was a pretty solid game. The Wagons were damn near unstoppable. Buggies ran interference but never really did any damage. Bikers struggled with terrain a lot but finally got some action, though not much. Bikerboss outflanked with the Koptas and just ruined my opponents gunline. Lootas were, as always, star players. And lastly, I'll never run Lootas without an ADL every again. It's just so worth it to get the 2+ go to ground save putting them behind it.

I won on round 5 with Linebreaker and 3pts worth of Objectives.

Only problame with going to ground is that you cant do anything the next turn. My opponents tend to just keep forcing me to g2g or take the hits since I wont be able to do anything with them if I keep going to ground :(

 Billagio wrote:
Only problame with going to ground is that you cant do anything the next turn. My opponents tend to just keep forcing me to g2g or take the hits since I wont be able to do anything with them if I keep going to ground :(

You can still snap fire.

You just can't launch assaults/move/run.

So the lads like lootas who already got a cozy spot somewhere, can go to ground all they like (as long as they dont mind snap firing)...

Going to ground only really becomes an issue when You got boyz who want to assault next turn from my experience!

You're still allowed to fire Snap Shots I believe, which isnt as bad of a hit for Orks than it is for other armies.

Good point. Forgot about snapshot.

Even if you didnt have a way to shoot.....if your running a x5 mob, thats only 75pts sitting there, taking shots and shrugging them off. Id bet dollars to cents that they would be using far more points then that shooting at em

 KingCracker wrote:
Even if you didnt have a way to shoot.....if your running a x5 mob, thats only 75pts sitting there, taking shots and shrugging them off. Id bet dollars to cents that they would be using far more points then that shooting at em

Yeah, it really is a good idea that you guys have just turned me on to. Thanks!

Most long range weapons that can hit them on T 1 or 2 really shouldn't be used to shoot 75 point El units that can get a 2+ or 3+ save by going to ground. When things move up the field, opponent troop choices make more sense to shoot at them but they'll typically still be wasting shots.

Hmm. Probably because I like running them in larger groups to gain fearless. Ill have to look into splitting them.

 Billagio wrote:
Hmm. Probably because I like running them in larger groups to gain fearless. Ill have to look into splitting them.

I think it may be dependent on who you play, but as an all-comers, I think it's a great idea. (which, I haven't actually tried yet)

Going for fearless was a legit reason in 5th ed. In 6th, since you can go to ground and only lose half of your hits (compared to others who lose a lot more) it's a much more reasonable tactic. If you're behind a ADL, you need 12 AP [any] wounds on you with a 5 man unit (who goes to ground) before to force them into a Ld test. 12 wounds is crazy! People will learn not to fire against these things because it's such a frustration.

My most recent list, at 2k:

Warboss on bike, PK attack squig, cybork,

SAG Mek, Cybork, eavy armor

KFF mek, Cybork, eavy armor, burna

KFF Mek, cybork eavy armor.

12 lootas, 3 meks (only because i dont have enough lootas, and this was for a WYSIWYG game)

30 grots,

2X-30 slugga boyz, 3 big shootas, nob with PK and pole
2X- 20 shoota boyz, 2 big shootas, Nob with Pole.

7 Nob bikers, 2 PKs, 2 BC, 2 Boss poles, 1 Waagh banner, and a Dok. all cybork.

I have played 4 games with this list, and had mixed results. against a Blood Angels,player I tied 7-7 in a Scouring game.

Against a VERY shooty Wolves, i was wiped by turn 4.

Against a CSM with Tau allies i very nearly wiped him in 7 turns, losing only the bikers and one unit of boyz.

againts Nids, i was wiped after 6 turns. admittedly, this one was due to glaring tactical errors, and bad scatter. the sag never scattered less than 8 inches the 4 turns it could fire.

On a KFF Mek....

Think about this for a second. He's carrying a 5+ cover save on his back, so a 4+ armor save is not going to be a gigantic difference. The Cybork is also going to useless to ranged damage. If you're going to be receiving a low AP value, your save would reduce to the 5+ cover. If you were receiving a high AP value, the save would reduce to the 4+ armor save from the 'Eavy Armor. Therefore the Cybork would only be useful in the narrow circumstance in which your KFF Mek was receiving a Power Weapon attack which negated your 'eavy Armor save in close combat.

Flamers

Whirlwind shots (Whirlys work well against orks)

Anything else with Ignores Cover...

Close combat of any kind (KFF does jack for you in CC)

Either the cybork or the Eavy Armour is helpful in these situations.

Flamers are Ap 5 - eavy armour and cybork works. Cybork still works on the more powerful ones.

CC weapons are mostly not AP 4 or less - Armour works, cybork also works on power weapons.

Ignores cover weapons vary, but are going to get more common. Cybork works on them all, Eavy rmour may work.

Whirlwind Castellan missiles are AP 5 - Eavy rmour and Cybork both work.


I wouldn't necessarily take both. Usually i just take Cybork, but both have a use, and sometimes it can be a game-saver to have both. Plus it's 5 pts. IF you have nothing else that needs a 5 pt upgrade, then why not tank the mek up 4+ saves are easier to make, and you have a 5+ for when that's ruled out.

Big Mek Dattrukk wrote:
My most recent list, at 2k:

Warboss on bike, PK attack squig, cybork,

SAG Mek, Cybork, eavy armor

KFF mek, Cybork, eavy armor, burna

KFF Mek, cybork eavy armor.

12 lootas, 3 meks (only because i dont have enough lootas, and this was for a WYSIWYG game)

30 grots,

2X-30 slugga boyz, 3 big shootas, nob with PK and pole
2X- 20 shoota boyz, 2 big shootas, Nob with Pole.

7 Nob bikers, 2 PKs, 2 BC, 2 Boss poles, 1 Waagh banner, and a Dok. all cybork.

I have played 4 games with this list, and had mixed results. against a Blood Angels,player I tied 7-7 in a Scouring game.

Against a VERY shooty Wolves, i was wiped by turn 4.

Against a CSM with Tau allies i very nearly wiped him in 7 turns, losing only the bikers and one unit of boyz.

againts Nids, i was wiped after 6 turns. admittedly, this one was due to glaring tactical errors, and bad scatter. the sag never scattered less than 8 inches the 4 turns it could fire.

I feel like you want your HQs to be better than they are. You have entirely too many points spent on HQ slots what would be much better served in troops or elites.

Agreed with the above

Ork HQ's aren't really the BS-Powerful powerhouses other codexes have, with a couple of exceptions.

They are more utility-hq's (even the SCs) than something you'd want to hinge your plan on.

Don't get me wrong. Our HQ's are cool, and not too horribly expensive in pts (some are overcosted tho), but Orks win their battles through cunnin' use of orks, not by having the uber-est character.