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Either way, usually by the time they come in if i dont get them turn 2-3 i got crushed by something or lost my chance with what i had in reserves and now theyre useless to me.
MANz missile cant shoot up without a distraction
Dakkajets tend to have issues if i dont get them all out at once

And with that new FAQ stating i cant fly off the same turn i came on, if i get 1 of 3 dakkajets i cant just go "Oh...hmm...ongoing reserves time!" and try again next turn. Usually if i only get 1 dakkajet and im not already up in his grill with a crapton of boyz or other things, the lone jet go boom easy.

They FAQ that you cant go into ongoing reserves the turn you come in? Uhg. Is it me or do their rules just get fething worse

Nah, I'm just speaking over two editions worth. Obviously they always come in on 4 now.

How do you guys get your trukks blown up so easily? All they need is one turn of flat out movement to get across the whole dang board. If you go first, they all make it. Second, hide them. I'll be taking wagons in addition to my trukks so they can all cower behind them, the little gitz.

Open topped bad luck mostly. Av10 is penned by just about anything and what doesnt pen it can glance it to death if he really wants to. I never roll immobilized or weapon destroyed, its always 5+ unless im hit by an AP2 then i get a 4+.

A game or two like that out of 5 or so, i'd just say bad luck. Literally every game the first HP loss = boom? No thanks i see a bad trend.

EDIT: Going to try out some tankbustas for the lawls. Do you guys think the Tankhammer is useless, since its rokkit spams before the charge at 9-12 inches, and Tankbusta spams 8 or less?
Also, it says in the BRB "May use a grenade instead of a shooting weapon" If i swap my rokkit for a tankhammer does that mean i cant throw a grenade now?

Tankbusta bombs are krak grenades (8inch range, Str6 AP4 assault 1) with bonus armor pen, so pretty much always pen harder than rokkits.
Also, the codex says "...Except they have an armor penetration of 2D6+6" - the FAQ doesnt clarify this....is that on TOP of the regular Str6 or is it talking about +6 because krak grenades are Str6 and this is just how an old as hell codex writes it. If its Str 6 + 2D6+6 armor pen....holy hell even AV14 would go splat to that...hence why im confused lol.

Going to run them in a typical boyz in wagons list with this BW on the side:

BW w/ Ram, RPJ, 4 Rokkit Launchas, and a Kannon (Kannon shell is bigger and badder than a rokkit, might as well take it)
15 Tankbustas w/ 2 Tankhammers w/ 2 Bomb squigs
KFF Mek w/ Bosspole

Rush up like normal, then just have this wagon sit behind the tides of green unloading rokkits galore.
Im assuming throwing a grenade still uses normal BS of the model since i didnt find anything saying otherwise. And i did find something about using it in a transport - they can - so zip up to ~7 inches and let it rain!

That's a good question.

I'm sure they just intend 2d6 pen with S6 base, but the way it's written I could see the logic behind "holy crap, I essentially have a S12 2d6 pen anti tank grenade".

So im not the only one.

I would lean towards the base Str being the +6 just for fairness. I imagine that would coop up one HELL of an argument if i tried to do the latter. Not to mention its literally Str12 even though you cant go higher than 10 because the 2d6+6 is pen rolls not adding to strength.

Tankbustas just became the new anti-landraider/monolith lol. No need to charge! Just get under 9 inches and start chucking!

EDIT: Aight found uses for the tankhammer. Its S10 period. 3 S10 attacks on the charge at normal initiative (well...better than the powerfist guys atleast) with no ap. I always thought it was another anti-vehicle/MC weapon.
Stronger than nobz PK even without the charge, just doesnt have the AP. That could cause some hurt.

Open topped bad luck mostly. Av10 is penned by just about anything and what doesnt pen it can glance it to death if he really wants to. I never roll immobilized or weapon destroyed, its always 5+ unless im hit by an AP2 then i get a 4+. A game or two like that out of 5 or so, i'd just say bad luck. Literally every game the first HP loss = boom?

It's almost always like that (1 hit = 1 Boom), but usually the truk is in good position. With an overall move of 24" on the first turn, they're almost all the time where they count.

My problem with truks : I always fail the difficult terrain test for at least one truk per game.

But if it stays alive and it delivered its content, noone shoots at it and it's a great area denial unit.






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MANz missile

I don't leave them in reserve ... because they always come in Turn 3.
Mine are a fire magnet ... opponents shoot so many shots at them to blow the up. And it's amazing how tough they are.



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Dakkajet

I'm not that proud of this one. It usually goes Boom so easily ... even with Jinx.
It's generally useless against Marines (mostly 3 out of my 4 regular opponents ... vanilla, chaos and dark angels). 9 TL-Supashoota ... I'm lucky to even kill one marine.
And with the Aegis Defense Line ... well it doesn't even have have the chance to shoot.



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Tankbustas

I tried these for a few games (I'll try them again still) but they weren't really useful. They never hit enough to cause damage.
Tankhammer = they never get to use it. I put 2 ... so they can throw a squig or a grenade instead of shooting.
The bomb: S6 + 2d6 pen (if you look at the BRB, it's only S6, Assault 1, Armourbane).




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Nob biker vs Warbiker Nob

That's a strange one ... why does the basic Nob biker costs 45 (20 + 25 for the bike) and the Warbiker only 35 (25 + 10 for Nob) ?
That's another strange math-thing of GW.

for the points the big difference is

warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4

i also don't like trukks for the added reason they give up first blood just by looking at them funny.

warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4

But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.

 valminder wrote:

warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4

But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.

You are probably still referring to the misprint profile of some ork codex. The warbiker is W1 S3 but still 3TL shoots. Which is the same as the Nob Bikers. So more bodies and more shoots per turn

 valminder wrote:

warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4

But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but if you are arguing that the Nob upgrade in the Warbiker unit is cheaper than a Nob Biker in a Nob Biker unit, then yes, you are right. However, that is a single model upgrade. The rest of the unit is still 1 Wound, 3 Str.

What ARE you trying to say?

He was trying to say exactly that, and everyone else misread/misunderstood him.

Also, Tankbustas Bust Tanks. I wish they still had the TankHunter USR, but oh well.

Let's look at AV14 all-round, shall we?

15 Tankbustas, 2 with Tankhammers, and a Nob with Powerklaw- that's 12 Rokkits and 3 Bomb Squigs/Tankbusta Bomms.

You'll hit with 1/3 of the Rokkits, so 4. It's Str 8. You need a 6 to glance. Not likely to kill it all the way out at >18" then (though it is possible now!)

Closer in, you can add up to 3 Bomm Squiggs (one turn only)- they're almost certain to hit, and are also Str 8. So you're almost guaranteed a glance that turn.

At 12", they're in Charge range. At 6", they're pretty much dead, because you have the Tankhammers and the Nob.


Anything with an AV less than 14 is essentially toast.


And yeah, these aren't the best numbers, but the thing is, this is Ork numbers. We're assuming, here, 4 hits. Whereas "4 hits" to a Guardsman would be 4 out of 8, and 4 hits to a Marine would be 4 out of 6, this is 4 out of 12. There's a chance you hit with all 12. Or there's a chance you miss with all of them.

Does the guy who bought that 210 points of AV14 really want to risk that?

I think it's also wise to factor in Tankbustas low model count and Ld. Because just a few shots at a mob and they will run off the table.

An upgrade character and a unit of the same are a completely different situation. Nob bikers are expensive yes, but they are also very nasty. How many people advocate dropping their cost by 10 points?

Yeah I just faced a dakkajet for the first time last week.

Harker blew it up with a single heavy bolter shot. Both of us were speachless. Still a great unit, but that AV 10 hurts.

As for the warbiker nob vs nob biker squad nob, I would guess the warbiker nob is 10pts cheaper for the same reason a regular boyz mob nob is cheaper. They have a massively reduced choice of wargear, and are the only character in that unit.

The dedicated nob units cost more because you're paying a premium to only take nobs and not have to take any "useless" boys with them.

But that's just me, who know's what crazy reason Phil Kelly had for it when he wrote the codex?

valminder wrote:

warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4

But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.

Its cheaper because it either has less options available to it or its minions in the group it was upgraded from are considerably weaker.
The Nob in the Boyz group costs 4pts less, but all he has with him is a pklaw and bp. He does have the benefit of a mass of boyz around him though.
The Warbiker's Nob doesnt have the numbers, but has the same disadvantage too. Thats probably why he costs so much less. 4+ is nice but ive come to not rely on it.

I do feel bikers in general are a bit overpriced. An effective bikernob force costs twice that of a MANz missile with their trukk or wagon, and is only better because of the 5+ FNP and no worries of losing their speed. Should they be the same price as MANz? hell no that'd make them broken lol. Maybe cut it down to 15pts per nob and 25pts for the maddok would be enough in my books, and cut the regular bikers down by 5 as well. (I used to think "meh, 5 pts big whoop" but now i realize that crap adds up FAST).
Dont get me wrong, bikers are amazing (nobz atleast) but if i face something that counters them i.e. a couple kombi flamers in the groups i gotta get by, im in trouble because they cost so much i usually dont have the points to get something else to deal with that unit. (Hive Guard for instance are the most nasty anti-biker weapon. I stopped taking bikers against Nids because those things create a huge bubble of "No Bikers Allowed" i cant deal with with the points i got left)

Well, Hive Guard don't do that anymore, Nob Bikers are a full T5 now so no ID from those annoying guns.

I have been playing them exclusively over foot Nobz since 6th and love them. Yeah it's 410 for a decent unit of 6, but they've eaten full turns of shooting from Storm Ravens, Obliterators, dev squads, Vendettas and they just keep rolling and killing ("rollin and killin rollin and killin" is what I chant when I move them).

With turbo boost they can basically get to anything I want dead in T2.

If I paid even 5 points less per model I think my regular gaming buddies would blow a collective blood vessel.

Now their success doesn't exist in a vacuum, they're just the pointy end of a very long smashing stick. I use normal Boyz to run early defense for them, with Lootaz to take town high-threat targets, and something else similarly threatening (Burnaz in a BW have been the go-to) to make sure the full heat of the enemy doesn't come to bare on the Nobz.

What I find is that my opponents throw their hardest hitting thing at them, kill maybe 1 Nob, then give up and start spreading the fire around. That's usually the point that the whole game turns in my favor

They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.

Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.

How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.

Most folk i play kit for anti-meq, rather than anti-horde, as that;s still the meta. Doubly so for tourney play as most armies will be some flavour of marine.

Green tide still works, but not as well. I prefer a mixed mech/horde list, with a small Nob Biker unit as a punch if the pts are high enough.

so everyone at a tourny doesnt ahve anything to deal with a horde? doesnt take much to deal with a mass of squishies.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
so everyone at a tourny doesnt ahve anything to deal with a horde? doesnt take much to deal with a mass of squishies.

Well the most popular build at the moment at tournaments is Necron Wraith spam with two destroyer lords so plenty to deal with hordes

I run 10 biker Nobz with Banner and PB and Cybork. 545 for the unit. I also run 2-3 BikerBosses and Wazz with 3-4 units of BikerBoyz. What the BBoyz can't handle, the Nobz can. Also just switched over my 3 DeffKoptas from BS to Rokkits. So far they've done better, along with remembering Scout Movement, damn Manticores!

The only PK's in my list are on the Bosses and Wazz, and it's been more than enough.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.

Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.

How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.

5+ 5+ is pretty effective, considering if you're taking fire from a full unit of hive guard about half will hit, then you might end up only taking 5 wounds, I'd probably lose 1 guy.

I always run them with a warboss, why would you not want to have a Biker Boss in your army

Foot sloggers aren't really cheaper since they're next to useless without a BW, once you stick that in they run about the same points. This is assuming you run 6 Nobz, which is my gold standard, but after 6 I guess it gets cheaper, especially if you just want a bunch of cheapo slugga/choppa nobz (which are actually pretty good).

My Nob Biker unit looks like this:

Warboss
Bike, AS, Cybork, PK, BP

Painboy
Big Choppa
Big Choppa
Slugga/Choppa
Power Klaw waaagh banner
Power Klaw

I have considered shaving a PK off the unit, but since the rest of the Ork army list is so inexpensive and easy to play around with I haven't bothered.

Mine is pretty standard fare.

6 Nob Warbikers
Painboy
2 Power Klaw Nobz
2 Big Choppa Nobz (1 with Boss Pole)
1 Waaagh Banner Nob

This unit has survived every game.
Hell, one game, on turn three, they survived an ENTIRE Ultramarines armys worth of shooting.
Were talking two full Dev squads, a razorback, Land Raider, and two Tac squads. I lost one PK nob.

I will also run them with my Biker Boss. I do this about half the time. The other half the time the Biker Boss comes in with three Deff Koptas for the outflank. But I never leave home without him. He has been my warlord every game of 6th I've played.

I think Nobz being bumped down to 16 points would be great, as it matches the rest of the codex. I'm not a fan of a 4 point tax for variety.

He was trying to say exactly that, and everyone else misread/misunderstood him.

Yes, exactly ... and thanks for the input. I can consider the reasoning behind the cost, but I still think that a similar unit should cost the same.

 valminder wrote:

He was trying to say exactly that, and everyone else misread/misunderstood him.

Yes, exactly ... and thanks for the input. I can consider the reasoning behind the cost, but I still think that a similar unit should cost the same.

One can get feel no pain the other doesn't. But yes I still agree with you they should be the same but orks have the same mistake all across the book

I'd call it a premium over a tax.

Tankbustas get TB bombs along with a Rokkit for 1 point less than a Boy Mob taking one.

Hell, I'd love a Big Shoota Elite Mob ala TB's for 1 point less; 15 BS boyz at 10 a piece?!?!

A Burna weapon upgrade in a Komando unit costs the same as a BurnaBOY in a Burna Unit.

A PK on a Boss does about twice the damage that it does on a Nob for the same cost. BikerBoss Bikes cost the same as a Meganob? Still worth it.

Speaking of MegaNobz, they cost less than a Nob + PK and get a 2+ save.

Still with all the Costs, BikerNobz with Cybork, Banner, and FNP are still the tops!

I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex. I mean, I still win most of my games with it and it's from 4th ed (sure, written for 5th, but it's really a 4th ed book).

Yes, some things are expensive, but you get what you pay for. Yes, some units are terrible, but show me the Codex that doesn't have something that nobody takes (double negative ftw).

But for every unit that costs 50+ points a model, I will point out the Warboss on Bike, with his ideal loadout, is 155 points. That's cheaper than crappy HQ choices in most dexes.