6th Ed. Ork Changes and Tactics. (Updated 9/7 with Ork FAQ 1.3)

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**Agent_Tremolo**

More Dakka wrote:
I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex.

Boomguns and Killkannons run rather expensive. It's tempting to have a s:8 pie plate, even more considering the changes 6th ed brought to blast templates and vehicles, and I don't mind that "don't press dat!" rule (people don't mind loading their vehicles and troops with potentially disastrous Plasmas, after all) but the cost puts me (and most ork players around) off.

**Crawdadr**

its the av 11 that puts me off, if it was 13 or even 12 I might consider them.

On a differant note I have been kind of looking back at the Blitz Bomber for my anti tank needs has anyone given them a shot?
S7 2D6 pen with only a 1d6 scatter seems realy good. Even with the mishap stuff.

**Agent_Tremolo**

Never tried or fought one, seems quite pricey for what essentially is a delivery vehicle for a couple tankbusta bombs which might just scratch a couple HPs at best. Still, the idea of zooming 36' ahead, placing yourself behind any fliers your enemy might be fielding and dropping your bombs somewhere in between seems interesting.

Maybe I'm a bit enthusiastic, though. Been playing Il2 Shturmovik a lot lately...

**MechanicusOmnisWrex**

I had a great time with 2 battlewagons filled with warboss's and nobs with big choppas...

I'm loving 40 S7 hits on the charge. I had enough spare to throw some toys around, a deffrolla, ram 2 kannons 2 klaws and 4 kombi skorchas.

made it across the gulf of no mans land and proceeded to squash, smash, bash and tear apart anything in their way.

was cool having 1000 point in 2 transports and 22 infantry!

Not tried putting nobs on bikes yet... might be necessary.

Boom Wagons are good n my onion, field 3 for good results... and add rams so a 'don't press dat is a squishy result.

Killkannons are pants though.

**MrMoustaffa**

There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.

I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.

As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...

**Vineheart01**

Agent_Tremolo wrote:
More Dakka wrote:
I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex.

Boomguns and Killkannons run rather expensive. It's tempting to have a s:8 pie plate, even more considering the changes 6th ed brought to blast templates and vehicles, and I don't mind that "don't press dat!" rule (people don't mind loading their vehicles and troops with potentially disastrous Plasmas, after all) but the cost puts me (and most ork players around) off.

Killkannons are Str7 Ap3 though, which i wouldnt take that even if its half the price since it makes the rest of my shots fire snaps and its a god awful short range for a pi plate. Just by looking at the stats, i dont think i'd ever use it and not have a big fear of my horrid BS scattering into my own dudes. Str7 doesnt really do much other than guarantee the To Wound roll on most targets (provide you actually hit the damn thing) since everything (far as i know) that has 2 wounds is at least T4 so it wont instapaste them.
Boomguns are nasty but that orky BS....ive ran them a few times and ive come to the conclusion i refuse to take them unless i expect hordy armies. I couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with it. The other issue is i dont really see a way to use them and not screw yourself over since you usually need those 3 heavy slots for something else. Its range isnt as great as IG, but its still long enough to safely fire at most targets and not worry bout hittin your own stuff (most the time)

MrMoustaffa wrote:There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.

I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.

As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...

Funny thing about the blitza bomma - it got nerfed. I tried it in a game before i read the FAQ to see if anything changed and i came to the same conclusion you just said - i WANT it to crash cuz its guns suck and the bombs are meh.
Rolling the "FASTER! WAAAAGH!! Uh-o" used to crash and deal an automatic S9 AP2 hit to your target. Now it just crashes and burns via BRB rules - Str6 ap-......serious? why nerf a lousy plane to begin with? lol
I dont like the Burna-bomma either. Missiles never hit, and if i fire both i cant fire my guns (count as using a weapon if i fire a missile, i only got 2 weapons) and its just Str5. Why would i want to blow so many points on such low strength thats unreliable to hit anything anyway? My opponent literally just ignored it, didnt even use his Intercept on his quad gun on it, and it didnt do anything but kill maybe 3 guardsmen when i finally ran out of missiles and shot my damn gun.

EDIT: Im gonna try that small biker list you guys posted, sounds legit. Would you guys run a wagon/trukk boy list with it or loota-cover + SAG/Dakkajets and just have the bikers and deffkoptas out there on their own?

**KingCracker**

More Dakka wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.

Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.

How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.

5+ 5+ is pretty effective, considering if you're taking fire from a full unit of hive guard about half will hit, then you might end up only taking 5 wounds, I'd probably lose 1 guy.

I always run them with a warboss, why would you not want to have a Biker Boss in your army

Foot sloggers aren't really cheaper since they're next to useless without a BW, once you stick that in they run about the same points. This is assuming you run 6 Nobz, which is my gold standard, but after 6 I guess it gets cheaper, especially if you just want a bunch of cheapo slugga/choppa nobz (which are actually pretty good).

My Nob Biker unit looks like this:

Warboss
Bike, AS, Cybork, PK, BP

Painboy
Big Choppa
Big Choppa
Slugga/Choppa
Power Klaw waaagh banner
Power Klaw

I have considered shaving a PK off the unit, but since the rest of the Ork army list is so inexpensive and easy to play around with I haven't bothered.

I have to really debate with myself weather to take a MegaBoss or a BikerBoss. They both have excellent pros, and I cant always take both.

**More Dakka**

I wouldn't say a Boomwagon is overpriced, it's effective for what it does, can't remember off the top of my head but they come to 115 with an Ard Case (which used to be worth it in 5th, wouldn't take that now). When I started playing my Orks in 5th I found it really effective at killing the MEQs that my Lootaz blew out of their Rhinos. They gave great killing reach to the army. Yeah AV11 made them weak, but I was running them in a dual KFF list with a horde of Boyz running up the table, so my opponent had way bigger fish to fry than a couple 115 point vehicles that were also sitting in a 4+ cover bubble (and could get weapons repaired etc).

@Vineheart01, I would go with something fast to support the bikers, have wanted to try TLBS Kopptaz, but BW Boyz or a couple trukk boyz will work well, buggies can be great too. The back field should be Lootaz of some sort with Dakka Jets held in the wings for support, but don't neglect to take at least a couple big mobz of shoota boyz, 20+ you need that scoring.

@Kingcracker, I've never run a Megaboss but totally see the value of them. There are only 2 drawbacks I find with Mega Armor, you don't get to overrun the foe if you win in CC and you can't run, so if you get shot out of your transport early they could be SoL for the game. My other issue is that to be effective they need Nobz to give them FNP and +1 WS, and foot Nobz are so much squishier with all that S8 still running around out there.

Since 6th I have never felt obliged to run the KFF Big Mek, it's pretty dang easy to find cover for most vehicles, so I would even go as far as to try dual Warboss lists taking Bikers as one troop and MANZ as the other with a Megaboss in a BW, that would make a real 2 pronged hammer of awesome!

*Edit, there are also some sneaky tricks you can pull with the Mega Boss, since his SnP is transferred to his unit etc.

**Anvildude**

You used to be able to overrun. I'm kinda sad they took that away, while leaving Slow'n'Purposeful. Do Termies have SnP now, or does Relentless keep you from overrunning as well?

**yorkskargrimironklaw**

valminder wrote:
Haaaa!! Grey Knights ... by turn 3 I had nothing left on the table ... between their psicannon, 2 teleporting dreadknights (the big terminator things) and ALL psychers, it was total destruction. It took them only 45 minutes to wipe me. Turn 1 they fried the lootas and goblins behind the Aegis Defense line and immobilized one BW. My 2 dakkajets were as easily destroyed, one by a megapowerful twin-linked lascannon razorback.

I tried the same list against Necrons (which were beaten earlier in no time by IG) and they did "almost" the same thing, but it took a little longer. It was almost a draw, but he won. I cannot destroy his AV13 vehicles ... and what about those damn HQ removing abilities from my orks.

I was so pissed off. I was almost willing to sell my orks after this defeat !!! But I've been beaten by the 2 best armies out there. I don't know why GW does codex that are that much powerful.

Anyway, it's my fault. I did not have a competitive list and I wanted to try stuff which failed.
The problem is that I like using weird stuff and different armies, I don't like playing the same army day after day,

How do you fight this Grey Knight army:
2 TL Lascannon Razorbacks
2 Dread Knights
20 Marines with Psicannons.
1 HQ that must be alone (I don't know his name, but he did nothing)
Everyone was a psycher.

For me, Kommandos are useless (Snikrot doesn't serve anymore).
Mobs of 30 orks are dead,
Dakkajets get shot down too easily.

I'm kind of brain-dead when thinking about my orks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Automatically Appended Next Post:
About the deathstars, I tried using this but it failed. Meganobz cannot fight against the ??? (the dark eldars with AP2 melee weapons), I cannot remember their names.

Their dark lances destroyed my 2 BW on turn 1.

Their venoms and the razorwing destroyed by 30 boyz (in 3 turns, but they did it).

Is it me or all orks are that unlucky ?

The game finished as a draw, nobody took the relic. At least my warboss saved the day. By himself he killed a talos pain engine, the DE HQ with his Invul 2+ shield, and 2 squads of DE troops. And the other star of the game was the immobilized Trukk of the meganobz (now empty) which prevented some of his troops to run toward the relic.

There is nothing you can do other then only play Orks if your opponent has Orks too then your both poo

**T-rex**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.

I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.

As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...

The boom weapon looks exciting when compared to other ork things,
but my allied hammerhead > evrything. Such a good addition to the ork repertoire, S8 pie plates, S10 antitank pew pew.
(only no good role for the mandatory fire warriors & the commander is also meh)

**DontEatRawHagis**

I'm glad I saw this. Awesome and keep it updated. Right now Old Zogwart is nerfed because of BS-, therefore no psychic shooting.

**Anvildude**

Eh, just model them Orky. Grot Firewarriors with Mek Speshul Shootas, and an Orky Battlesuit allows for So Many conversion possibilities.

**phatonic**

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
I'm glad I saw this. Awesome and keep it updated. Right now Old Zogwart is nerfed because of BS-, therefore no psychic shooting.

Old news, now we wait eagerly for the uppdates for how the ork bommers are gonna be as i just saw today there will be a new flyer book that includes stormraven for Black templar use and uppdates for the ork bomma

**Vineheart01**

Yea Zog's issue has been known for awhile the recent faq just further messed him up without saying "But he can use them despite BS- because they autohit" - theres literally no point in taking him cuz he costs twice a normal warphead, cant use the nukes, and is squishy as hell so his melee attacks usually wont do anything since just about everything would challenge him and win.

**AntomanElven**

Oh man, Cybork, Power Klaw and Bosspole nob squads are so much fun

**More Dakka**

I always felt that Zogwart wasn't worth taking vs a normal warphead, a lot of points for some poison attacks and an IC splatterer. I guess the issue with him is that very few IC's can go toe to toe with a Warboss.

Anyways, normal Warphead is one of my fav HQ's right now. I just put him with a big mob of Slugga/Choppa Boyz and hope to get a Waaaaagh for my Dakka Jets, or one of those sweet nukes off.

Also Ere We Go has secured Linebreaker for me in 3 out of 5 games now, you get 30 Boyz in the enemy deployment in one piece and they will be a HUGE distraction and tough to dislodge. Now I have mishapped twice in 1 game with them and lost them the second time, but that was during a landslide game so I was kinda just messing around with it.

**Vineheart01**

have to agree with the comment that most ICs cant go toe-to-toe with a warboss. With the exception of Nids since MCs have AP2 attacks that practically always wound, i cant think of one that can beat a warboss. necrons can if they mindshackle me, but thats it.
Mindshackel scarabs are kinda bs. It almost always goes off and makes any character worthless. The HQ himself using it is usually meh, but who cares he makes you kill yourself.

edit:

@Vineheart01, I would go with something fast to support the bikers, have wanted to try TLBS Kopptaz, but BW Boyz or a couple trukk boyz will work well, buggies can be great too. The back field should be Lootaz of some sort with Dakka Jets held in the wings for support, but don't neglect to take at least a couple big mobz of shoota boyz, 20+ you need that scoring.

How bout this? 1500pts (going off memory might have some pts wrong)

HQ:
Warbiker Boss w/ BP/Cybork/PK 140
KFF Mek 85

Elites:
6 Nob bikers
2PK (1 with Waaagh banner)
1BC
2Norm
Painboy w/ Cyborks
400pts

2x 5 Lootas 75pts(150pts)

Troops:
2x 20man Shooty boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas 130pts(260pts)
19man Shooty boyz w/ 1 Big shoota 119pts

Heavy: 3x BW w/ Rollas, 1 BS 115pts(345pts)

Comes down to 1499pts. I took off the AS on the warboss to get the WAAAGH banner. Was contemplating a single dakkajet instead of lootas, but as we all know a single of anything in orkyness does nothing.
If the game was 1750pts i would drop the lootas and take 3 dakkajets w/ extra shoota, get my atack squig back, give another BS to the BWs, and get another Bigchoppa in the nobz

EDIT2: Actually, should i drop the KFF and just use the bikes to give my BWs cover saves? They definately cover more than 25% of the model unless youre a plane, giving them a 4+ instead of a 5+ and the bikes have that anyway.

**sirlynchmob**

edit 2, the battle wagons would still get a 5+ from intervening models.

**Vineheart01**

it does? i'd have to reread that but i know that vehicles is entirely how much of it is blocked, not whats blocking it. Area terrain only gives it a cover if its sunk into the ground enough or has enough trees/rocks blocking its view.

Only reason the KFF is a 5+ for them is because in 6th FAQ they specifically say its a 5+ now, otherwise the wording is the same as it was in 5th when it was a 4+

Even if it was still a 5+ i think it would be a good idea since that would let me get the AS back on my boss, get more BS on the BWs, and fit that 19squad to 20. KFF doesnt do anything once i get across the board anyway.

**Sinji**

You'd be better off running the bikes behind the Wagons. What makes the wagons good is the AV 14. They are immune to S7 and lower and S8 can only glance them. So your only real threat is S9 & 10 and anything that has the possibility for 2D6 Armour Pen or Lance Weapons.

What this means is that if your opponent can only see Battle Wagons he has to use his dedicated AT on you and everything else in his list has been rendered usless. So the KFF becomes superior becuase he is also hidden. Not only is he hidden but all of your models even partially within 6" of the Hull of the vehicle is within gain a 5+ cover save. A lot of people complain that a 5+ isn't good enough but its better than nothing and during night fight this can go upto a 4+ or a 3+.

Battle Wagons gives your softer squisher units more time to get up the board and the more units you have to engage with on your Waaagh!!! move. The more likely you are to win the game.

**Vineheart01**

Found it, i just misread the example in the BRB talking about cover. Its still the same cover normal units get, it just needs 25% or more to take effect. I thought it was 4+ regardless unless it was an ability that let it have cover in the open.

**Sinji**

In the old dex bikes and grots did allow for this however bikes cost like 33 points I think and had nothing like what the current bikes have. But this was before you could get cover from other models. But no sadly its just a 5+. So best to stick with the KFF.

**PipeAlley**

Yeah but the old bikes had Pycho Blasta Dakka allowing them to shoot their BS's when they charge (at int. 11) instead of CC weapons. Those were the days. 5pts more than they are now.

**Sinji**

Yeah I forgot about that rule lol

**valminder**

Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).

I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.

RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers

Space Marines : I don't know yet, but my son will probably use
-Thunderfire cannon for sure.
-2x 5 Scouts
-Devastator or Tactical Squad to protect the cannon

Orks: I had these ideas

Choice 1
5 Deffkoptas + Big Mek on bike (PK, CY, AS, BP)
2x 10 Grotz
4 Warbikers + Nob (PK, BP)

Choice 2
5 Deffkoptas + Big Mek on bike (BP)
2x 10 Grotz
6 Warbikers + Nob (PK, BP)

Choice 3
3 Lobbas
3 Killakans (with grotzookas)
5 Deffkoptas
11 Shoota Boyz + Nob (BP, BS)
12 Shoota Boyz (BS)

Choice 4
3 Killakans (grotzookas)
Big Mek KFF (BP)
10 Grotz
30 Shoota Boyz (3 BS, Nob BC-BP)

Choice 5
Big Mek SAG +BP
2x 10 Grotz
3 Lobbas
5 Lootas
30 Shoota Boyz (3 BS, Nob A-BC-BP)

Choice 6
5 Deffkoptas + Big Mek on bike (PK BP CY)
2x 10 Grotz
13 Kommandos + Nob (PK BP)

Tell me what you think ... I don't know what the others will field, but the opposition will be from every Codex.

**Sinji**

I think in this situation a Kan wall army would be perfect. Have your Kans and boyz moving forwards and the Marines as fire support. Load them up with Infantry Killing weapons as most Armys will have to run Mass Infantry. If they don't deal with Kans first they will havr 27 Strength 10 AP2 close combat attacks hitting them where it hurts.

**virx67**

valminder wrote:
Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).

I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.

RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers

That's extremely limiting....

But I'd go with a KFF mek, and 2 30 man boyz squads Or some form of Nob Bikers. That would be funny in 500 pts. If you are only going to field stuff out of your choices, I'd probably do choice 4.

**loota boy**

virx67 wrote:
valminder wrote:
Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).

I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.

RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers

That's extremely limiting....

But I'd go with a KFF mek, and 2 30 man boyz squads Or some form of Nob Bikers. That would be funny in 500 pts. If you are only going to field stuff out of your choices, I'd probably do choice 4.

Bring a nekkid big mek, two units of ten grotz, and the meanest mob of nob bikers you can afford. The mek and grotz cost 115 points, so you get 385 points for nob bikers, but you can't put cybork on them.

**valminder**

That's extremely limiting....

They want to take us out of our comfort zone.

Bring a nekkid big mek, two units of ten grotz, and the meanest mob of nob bikers you can afford

I don't even have the obligation to put a HQ. But I'm afraid not to have enough models on the table with only Nob Bikers to charge the enemy.