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Ovion wrote:Unless you're not running any Warriors or Trueborn, then he can be run where you like.

But ultimately in my experience the best way to run Sliscus is with a squad of 20 Warriors with 2 Splinter Cannons. And this set up has gotten even better with 6th.

For 200pts you now get at full strength:
At Overwatch: 48 Poison (3+) Shots (Which should work out at 8 hits, 5-6 wounds.)
At 12" (Stationary): 48 Poison (3+) Shots (24 hits and 16 wounds.)
At 18" (Moved 6"): 44 Poison (3+) Shots (22 hits and 14-15 wounds.)
At 24" (Stationary): 30 Poison (3+) Shots (15 hits and 10 wounds.)
At 30" (Moved 6"): 28 Poison (3+) Shots (14 hits and 9-10 wounds.)

If somebody shoots at them they might as well be dead though...unless you throw duke in front and take the 2++ saves...and cover maybe...
but still a pretty weak blob...

Puscifer wrote:I'm using the Duke. He's just too good for 150 points. All of those goodies and only one downfall... 2 wounds.

the shadowfielded wound is the only one that matters


Automatically Appended Next Post:

reaper501 wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:
But the Duke wounds on a 2+ (he has great options for combat drugs which can increase that number) and he IGNORES ARMOR on roll of a 5 or a 6. Against tough 4 models so does Lelith! So instead of just wounding 1 or 2 or wait maybe 3 times, I am more likely wounding 3 or 4 and possible 1 or 2 of those ignore armor, and the others my opponent has to roll for which could bring the total up higher. He also has a blast pistol, and a shadowfield (so better save), and he pimps my ride for a squad of trueborn or warriors, making them wound on 3+ instead of 4+ for their splinter shots..

I am personally on the fence with the duke. Yeah he has all that nice CC stuff, but he needs to be deployed with Warriors or Trueborn who will(if played right) will NEVER get into CC. The silver lining here, is something I'm unsure about, does the Duke have to STAY with the squad to confer the 3+ poison, or just be deployed with them? If he doesn't have to stay with them, then I guess first turn you could just scoot him over to a wych squad, in which case yes...the Duke definitely found a place in my list.

he must start the game with them, but then he can immidiately jump out and join a cc squad. The squad he is deployed with has 3+ posion forever, even if the duke dies.

Yeah he doesn't have to stay with them. So the way I have him fielded is with a small 5 man trueborn outside of the vehicles (2 with splinter cannons, and 3 with shard carbines) Have them a little further away from the front line. Turn one, have the trueborn jump in their venom, and have the duke jump into the Raider with the wyches. Give each a little bit more protection as quick as possible. Just have to be careful turn 1 if I don't go first.

I found out in a recent game that the craters left by exploding vehicles works really well with PGLs (giving a 4+ cover save) which helps protect the survivors from rapid fire and overwatch. Another thing I have been trying out is cheap succubi to boost wych squads. They are survivable 2+ look out sir. A succubus with a venom blade is as effective against T4 as 6.66 wyches on the charge (with haywire that's around 80pts). They are as effective as 8.39 wyches when not on the charge. Wyches of course benefit more from certain drug rolls (+1WS, +1A). Succubi also make the unit stay effective despite casualties. The other main advantage is when transports explode as the controlling player you get to allocate wounds. Succubi tend to suffer instant death against most things, so her extra wounds often get wasted, now you can allocate 1-2 wounds to the succubus in order to save a few wyches when their transport bites the dust. The other interesting mechanic is being able to save/transfer pain tokens from a unit that is almost dead.

Here is another battle report, this time against TAU if anyone is interested:

Battle Report 6

Does the PGL's always confer a +1 to cover save or only when being overwatched? I understood it to mean that you could use it when assaulting to give you a +1 to your cover save because that is when you are shooting the grendaes out of it anyways. If I am wrong that is a cool tidbit of info to remember for future gaming myself.

CrimsonKing wrote:Does the PGL's always confer a +1 to cover save or only when being overwatched? I understood it to mean that you could use it when assaulting to give you a +1 to your cover save because that is when you are shooting the grendaes out of it anyways. If I am wrong that is a cool tidbit of info to remember for future gaming myself.

It gives you defensive grenades which grant the Stealth USR (+1 to cover saves) against shooting within 8"

So as long as you're not assaulting from further than 8" you'll get the cover save bonus.

So that means even when being shot at by anyone within 8 inches. Very nice


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, I know I have posted it on here a few times about how cool I think he is, but I played a game last Friday and used The Duke for the first time in a long time ( the first time using him right), and can I just say that at the end of the game that he and the 2 wyches left in the squad had 4 pain tokens, and he did a bunch of the killing himself. HAnding out wounds like they were candy to kids on Halloween. The first fight he was I rolled two 5's and a 6, not to mention not a single 1, so he wounded a think 4 times (because he missed one of his hits).
He won all of his duels and kicked everyone's but.

Oh yeah I was playing Necrons at 1850. I tabled him.

I also brought a void Raven, and I like the str 9 guns on it. They get the job done. That and the mine I can use on a turn that otherwise I wouldn't really get to do anything. It was a great game.

CrimsonKing wrote:So that means even when being shot at by anyone within 8 inches. Very nice


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, I know I have posted it on here a few times about how cool I think he is, but I played a game last Friday and used The Duke for the first time in a long time ( the first time using him right), and can I just say that at the end of the game that he and the 2 wyches left in the squad had 4 pain tokens, and he did a bunch of the killing himself. HAnding out wounds like they were candy to kids on Halloween. The first fight he was I rolled two 5's and a 6, not to mention not a single 1, so he wounded a think 4 times (because he missed one of his hits).
He won all of his duels and kicked everyone's but.

Oh yeah I was playing Necrons at 1850. I tabled him.

I also brought a void Raven, and I like the str 9 guns on it. They get the job done. That and the mine I can use on a turn that otherwise I wouldn't really get to do anything. It was a great game.

This sounds a lot like the sort of list I am working on getting together at the moment, could you give a rundown of what the full army looked like?

My 1850 list is

The Baron
The Duke

Trueborn x5- splinter cannon x2, slpinter carbine x3
venom- ns, sc

wych x5- haywire grenades
venom- ns, sc
wych x5- haywire grenades
venom- ns, sc
wyches x9- haywire grenades, hydra guantlets, hekatrix,blast pistol, agoniser
raider- ns, ff, dl
warriors x10- blaster, sc
raider- ns, ff, dl, splinter racks

beastmasters x5
khymera x10
razorwing flocks x6

ravager- ns, ff, dl x3
ravager- ns, ff, disentegrator cannons x3
voidraven- ns, ff, shattershard missiles x2

That is pretty much my 1850 list. I had my trueborn and the duke out of the venom and parked close to the wych's raider so the duke could jump in that and the trueborn in their venom. I was able to completely cover them so my opponent couldn't see them.

I don't see varying to greathly from this list for my army. It really encompasses what I like in the codex. At more points I cna add things, and play around with different builds too, but I like this list.

After a brief period of more infantry armies my club seems to have switched back to their old habits of Massed Mech. Haywire wyches have been amazing at dealing with this, but what I think is overlooked is why venoms/disintigrator raiders work so well with them. The splinter cannon/disintigrator are great at peeling back any potential bubble wrap around the unit (infantry unit positioned in order to prevent you form charging a tank). They often kill enough so your wyches can engage the target vehicle with their haywire grenades.

If any one is interested, here is a battle report against a mechanised space wolves army where this happened:

Battle report 7

Dude you have some pretty epic games. The first two rounds I'm thinking you are done for; you pull it out of your ass everytime. Love the Battle Reports, and how gutsy you are with your models. 3 vindicators would have had me gaking myself, and calling the other player a cheap whore (sorry for the language).

Huh, ass isn't a bad word in this forum; interesting

CrimsonKing wrote:


Huh, ass isn't a bad word in this forum; interesting

Why should it be? Donkeys are people too.

So I was playing my first game in the month of August yesterday, and I was pondering. I like my new 5 man haywyches but man, I wish they could kill gak that didn't have an armor value. I'm one of those folk who looks at the new rules and just really baulks at how the wyches got nailed.

Then an epiphany hit me as I idly fed cheap warrior squads into the enemy's guns to soak up overwatch for my Wracks. What happened was, thanks to some excellent rolling balancing out some poor rolling, a 5 man warrior squad ended up in combat while the Wrack's charge failed and they killed near half of a tactical squad on their own before the Wracks came in and watched the Warriors finish that squad off before their initiative step.

Now, my grand plan isn't to charge the enemy with warrior squads and expect tremendous dice rolls.

But rather, I was inspired by how well that cheap squad performed despite the fact that I didn't give a damn if it died or not. So I began to think, what if I just kept my wyches so cheap that I didn't give a damn if they got wiped by overwatch or not? Two possible ways to do this come to mind. 5 man wych squad with haywires and a hekatrix with a venom blade, or 5 man wyches with haywires and one using razorflails.

Math-hammered out (and neglecting to incorporate combat drugs) the razorflails will do 1.5 wounds.

The Hekatrix with a venom blade will do 1.66~ without poison weapon rerolls.

Obviously, the hekatrix will perform better and can challenge, and can get those oh so juicy poison weapon rerolls. However, challenges work both ways and it is of course the more expensive option.

Either way, it's squad that costs well under 100 points and can probably do... some very nasty things. I'd probably include them in a Duke Sliscus list for maximum efficiency.

Something like

Duke
20 man warrior blob
(4x) 5 man wyches as above
(2x) 6 man Reaver squads
(2-3x) Ravagers
Possibly a flier.

I could probably fit more at 1500 points, but I'm just theorycrafting at the moment.

CrimsonKing wrote:
Dude you have some pretty epic games. The first two rounds I'm thinking you are done for; you pull it out of your ass everytime. Love the Battle Reports, and how gutsy you are with your models. 3 vindicators would have had me gaking myself, and calling the other player a cheap whore (sorry for the language).

Yeah so far the games have been pretty intense. I was gaking myself! I was saying to myself: why don't I have lances so I can sit back and shoot. In hind sight I'm really glad I didn't have any because I that would have lost me the game. Not having them forced to play aggressively. I find with DE you really need to go for the jugular. I think it was Dashofpepper who once said "Every additional model and expenditure of points that you put into something that is not created, honed, and visualized to kill something is a waste of points".

 Lokas wrote:
Two possible ways to do this come to mind. 5 man wych squad with haywires and a hekatrix with a venom blade, or 5 man wyches with haywires and one using razorflails.

I would go for the hekatrix/venom blade, for five points more you get more leadership, extra attack a better weapon and more importantly "look out sir" to help make sure the venom blade is the last model you lose.

Mushkilla wrote:

CrimsonKing wrote:
Dude you have some pretty epic games. The first two rounds I'm thinking you are done for; you pull it out of your ass everytime. Love the Battle Reports, and how gutsy you are with your models. 3 vindicators would have had me gaking myself, and calling the other player a cheap whore (sorry for the language).

Yeah so far the games have been pretty intense. I was gaking myself! I was saying to myself: why don't I have lances so I can sit back and shoot. In hind sight I'm really glad I didn't have any because I that would have lost me the game. Not having them forced to play aggressively. I find with DE you really need to go for the jugular. I think it was Dashofpepper who once said "Every additional model and expenditure of points that you put into something that is not created, honed, and visualized to kill something is a waste of points".
.

I agree with you. About 85% of my list is doing exactly what I want it to do, but I usually have one unit that just really doesn't pull it's weight. I think DE in general (just from being so glass hammer), you really have to have a purpose. Know what your units are going to do, and they need to do them. You can't have just have them sitting around waiting. They don't necessarily have to be destroying huge swathes of your opponent's army every turn but putting pressure on your opponent and making them play your way and not what they had strategized.

You did a really good job against your opponent. I think going into that battle he thought he had you because he brought (in my opinion) a dick list, and you TABLED him. Not just beat him, but tabled him. You got all the objectives, and he had zilch.

The problem I run into with my dark eldar reavers is at 1850 there is a lot of stuff on the board so it is hard to have your bikes turbo boost and be somewhere where someone isn't going to assault you the next turn, and I would like to get more than one movement out of my squad.

Alright, playing a game today gents.

This is the list I'll be using.

Duke Sliscus

Warriors x20 w/ Splinter Cannons

(2x) 5 Wyches w/ Haywires and a Razorflail mounted in a Venom w/ extra splinter cannon and Night Shields

(2x) 5 Wyches w/ Haywires and a Hekatrix w/ Venom Blade mounted in a Venom w/ extra splinter cannon and Night Shields

(2x) Reaver Jetbikes w/ Heat Lances and a Cluster Caltrop

(2x) Ravagers w/ Dark Lances

I haven't decided if I'll be rolling for strategic or command warlord traits yet. I decided to go with the 2 of each Wych squad to see how well they perform on the tabletop. Also because I have to models with razorflails built, and two hekatrixes built.

My opponent will be using his hybrid guard list, so if it's anything like last time it'll be a pair of 20 man shooting blobs, a pair of veterans in chimera and some Leman Russ backup. Maybe some outflanking sentinels, maybe some heavy weapon squads. We'll see when we get there. I'm looking forward to playing this guy, he's both a good friend and always an excellent challenge. I'll give you my post-game thoughts when I get back.

Just started to dive into the DARK side of the Eldar race. Have been a craftworld player for some time and have now embraced my darker side. I have found that the synergy that Eldar and Dark Eldar bring to the table is phenomenal. I have recently won my first tournament with my allied list of the 2.

Really enjoying the Dark little guys! Will keep lurking on this thread to continue to learn more!

I've been having trouble getting consistent feedback on my hopeful 1500pt list. Some say its great, others that it lacks focus, some bodies, others AT.


Archon - 115pts.
-Power Lance, Drugs, Shadow Field

9x Harlequins - 224pts.
- 8x Kisses, ShadowSeer

Warriors (10) - 180pts.
-Splinter cannon, Raider w. Night shields, Splinter Racks
Warriors (10 - 180pts.
-Splinter Cannon, Raider w. Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Wytches (5) - 125pts.
-Venom w. Dual SC, Haywire Grenades
Wytches (5) - 125pts.
-Venom w. Dual SC, Haywire Grenades

Reavers (6) - 156pts.
-2x Heat Lances

2x Ravagers - 230pts, (3DLs) + Night Shields
Razorwing w, Flicker Fields and Splinter Cannons, DLs - 165pts.

1500


Right now i'm looking at: 10 dark lances (all from vehicles), 2 squads with haywire, 2 heatlances and a metric ton of splinter fire. THe overall goal was to hang back and attempt to outshoot, using my wytches as flanking forces while the Archon and his harlequin pets protected the more vulnerable Ravagers + Raiders. I'm wondering though if this is still a solid idea. I'm planning on using the list in serious tournament play, and other than adding 6 reavers, i have no idea where to take this above 1500pts.

How do people feel about 3x 3 Trueborn with 2x Dark Lances ---- transport or no? I think the squad would be pretty easy to hide in ruins or in a building. plus they're cheap at 86pts a pop and throw in more non vehicle dark light weapons.

Could this list do well at tournaments?

I really like your list a lot. If you shrink that list down to about 750 pts that is exactly what I take for my eldar/dark eldar allies force. The other half is comprised of eldrad, 10 rangers, 10 guardians plus Missile launcher, 3 war walkers with scatter lasers, and an aegis defense line. I force a shoot out. And it has done well. With winning lists comprising of cheesy necron builds,they didn't give it much trouble. It has enough fire power to shred them if they try and come close and outrange them from afar.

thelordcal wrote:
I've been having trouble getting consistent feedback on my hopeful 1500pt list. Some say its great, others that it lacks focus, some bodies, others AT.


Archon - 115pts.
-Power Lance, Drugs, Shadow Field

9x Harlequins - 224pts.
- 8x Kisses, ShadowSeer

Warriors (10) - 180pts.
-Splinter cannon, Raider w. Night shields, Splinter Racks
Warriors (10 - 180pts.
-Splinter Cannon, Raider w. Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Wytches (5) - 125pts.
-Venom w. Dual SC, Haywire Grenades
Wytches (5) - 125pts.
-Venom w. Dual SC, Haywire Grenades

Reavers (6) - 156pts.
-2x Heat Lances

2x Ravagers - 230pts, (3DLs) + Night Shields
Razorwing w, Flicker Fields and Splinter Cannons, DLs - 165pts.

1500


Right now i'm looking at: 10 dark lances (all from vehicles), 2 squads with haywire, 2 heatlances and a metric ton of splinter fire. THe overall goal was to hang back and attempt to outshoot, using my wytches as flanking forces while the Archon and his harlequin pets protected the more vulnerable Ravagers + Raiders. I'm wondering though if this is still a solid idea. I'm planning on using the list in serious tournament play, and other than adding 6 reavers, i have no idea where to take this above 1500pts.

How do people feel about 3x 3 Trueborn with 2x Dark Lances ---- transport or no? I think the squad would be pretty easy to hide in ruins or in a building. plus they're cheap at 86pts a pop and throw in more non vehicle dark light weapons.

Could this list do well at tournaments?

I like your list overall. The only things I would think about changing would be, 1st the Harlequins. Don't get me wrong, I love Harlequins. But in a Dark Eldar army I don't believe they are as good as if you had Eldar for Allies, or were playing just Eldar. The reason being Doom. Harlies with kisses need Doom to really take advantage of the 6's for rending to just completely wipe a squad out before they get a chance to roll and take a few of you out. Fortune also helps to keep them alive. You a using them correctly (counter charge unit). But I think if you made them a squad of incubi, and give the archon a PGL that they will be a little bit more durable overall, and that they will pack a nasty punch to everything short of armor 2.

Your Razorwing is a good anit infantry unit, but maybe you might want to switch that out for a Void Raven. A little bit more anti armor, and maybe add two shattershard missiles. Besides that I think keep the list the way it is.

Personally not a big spammer, so 3 squads of trueborn with 2 dl's each doesn't appeal to me. As for tournaments, it depends on your area and how others game where you live.

@thelordcal

How about dropping FF and splinter cannon on Razorwing? It will take a lot of BS1 shooting to even hit that thing, if it gets shot down after 3 or 4 units worth of shooting, then it still has done a great job at drawing enemy's fire for an entire turn. Our flyers can only fire 4 weapons a turn now, so having the splinter cannon is hardly gonna see much use, unless you're firing 1 missile each turn... Which would be a waste, because of the zooming movements, forced reserve, etc, you're looking at about 3 turns of shootings in 5 turns, average, so you might as well empty all your missiles asap and just AI with dissie + twin-linked splinter rifle for the remaining of the game, and put that 20pts elsewhere... Like, giving archon his agoniser, I haven't much love for power lance personally, S4(S5 on 1/6 chance) AP3 on the turn you charged, then S3 AP4 for the rest of the combat, don't forget marines with ATSKNF or any army with fearless is immune to our sweeping advances. Or replace reavers' heat lances with blasters.

Sniperborns are all dependant on game type, table size and terrains, if you field them with a venom with standard loadout: stationary, 36" 12 poisoned shots 2 darklight shots at full BS, or (up to)48" 12 poisoned shots at full BS and 2 darklight shots at BS1... If you're lucky, the BS1 48" darklance might hit and that'd make them a bit better than the standard blasterborn setup on 1st turn! But personally, I'd much prefer playing a mobile DE army than a gun line one.

I think your list is a bit light on the AT side at 1500pt, but I'm no veteran player, so take my word with a pinch of salt or however the saying goes.

Here's what i'm thinking:

Archon - 105pts.
-Shadow Field, Blaster

True Born (3) - 146
-3x Blaster, Venom w. Dual SC
True Born (3) - 146
-3x Blaster, Venom w. Dual SC

Warrior Squad (10) - 170
-Splinter Cannon, Raider w. Racks
Warrior Squad (10) - 170
--Splinter Cannon, Raider w. Racks
Warrior Squad (5) - 125.
-Blaster, Venom w. Dual SC
Warrior Squad (5) - 125
-Blaster, Venom w. Dual SC

Reaver (6) - 156
-2x Heat Lances

Ravager 3 DLs, - XXX
Ravager 3 DLs, - XXX
Void Raven - XXX

1498pts. Now that's a lot of shooting!

Blasters - 9
Dark Lances - 8
Splinter Cannons - 10
Heat Lances - 2

And an Anti Flyer!

Yes i know the archon is expensive, but is far more survivable than a Haem and what's not to love about a BS 7 blaster? I'm a little nervous not having any dedicated CC elements, it'll be like playing wood elves in 6th edition fantasy!!! I also squeezed every ablative wound and all of the night shield to make enough room for the Void Raven. I guess i could drop the Archon to Haemy with Hexrifle and save 40pts to throw night shields back onto the Raiders + Ravagers. But i'm kinda interested to see how well the Archon does. Plus what would a bunch of warriors be doing wilth those eldar of ill repute

The Flickerfield on the Razorwing is pretty much the best upgrade to buy.

While every other flyer needs to restrict itself to snapshots to jink, it just goes 'haha' and takes its 5+ invun. It makes at great agaisnt other flyers.

Dropping the Splinter Cannon is a good plan though.
I also prefer my Razorwing Lancey to disintegrator-y.

@Ovion

Oh true, my bad, I was thinking too much in my own gaming environment: I'm the only one with flyers.. haha

@thelordcal

I believe the standard competitive DE list is very shooty, our shooting side is waaaay better than our assault side in 6th ed, and don't forget we're still more mobile than the other armies.

So this is a little late, but I've been busy building a new gaming rig so neener neener.

First; Holy crap Nightfighting makes Dark Eldar invincible. Not really, but the massed firepower of over 1300 points of Guard failed to scratch the paint on Sliscus's codpiece during the first turn.

Two; 5 man wych squads... are actually phenomenal. They're cheap enough to throw away, and potent enough that they can put the hurt on squads that have been weakened by vehicle explosions/splinter fire/a stray fart. 5 man Wych squads claimed the lives of two weakened plasmavets squad, and a 13 man blob. 5 Wyches wiped the latter with splinter pistol fire and two rounds of assault and went on to hunker down on an objective. Good stuff. Should also be noted that I lost two out of the four of the squads I came with, and the remainders were far from unscathed.

Three; It's really easy to surround chimeras with the rerollable 2d6 charge and full coherency. Still takes 2 squads of Wyches to totally box in a squad and auto-destroy them, but the enemy's warlord died this way fairly early in the game.

I'm definitely going to go with the Hekatrix with a venom blade. She can handle most characters in close combat save the true beatstick ICs.

I'm definitely adding this to my repertoire. It's different enough from my Sathonyx list to keep me interested, and distracted from actually painting the models I build.

I managed to get in a bigger game against a necron tesla/flyer list. It was really tough, tesla is brutal on overwatch and isn't nice to wyches. That being said the reavers mobility is fantastic for contesting objectives and avoiding strafing runs.

Here is the report if anyone is interested:

The Black Buzzards VS Necron Teslatastic - 1500pts

I like the hextrix but think the HQ choices are just too valueable.
I am now fully converted to the "love the baron" bandwagon now that I simply play him with a converted jetbike model.(it has a skyboard on it too) Him and bike are crazy good.

I was on the baronwagon before he was popular... [/hipster]

The Baron is pretty good with just about any unit he's attached to. He brings a lot of usefulness with a small price tag.

ThePhish wrote:
The Baron is pretty good with just about any unit he's attached to. He brings a lot of usefulness with a small price tag.

there really is so much there. The PGL, stealth, Shadowfield, Hit and run(rerollable), Str6 in combat, +1 to go first.