6th Edition and GK changes/Tactical - revisited (updated for FAQ V1.4 and some Eldar)

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**sudojoe**

Acidian wrote:
sudojoe wrote:
Ya, the first page is really in need of some fixing again. I think origionally it started as an update guide to people that's been playing GK for a while but now I think I'll redo the thing as a primer or sorts as that's what it's turning into.

Thank you a lot for the help! I think I will do as you sugest and just keep the terminators so I can test them in different ways and see how I like them. I only get 5 in a box, so I will probably go 4 halberds and one sword, as I think you theorycrafted that it was the best combination earlier. Then put the sword on the justicar if running with regular terminators rather than paladins. I only play against friends for the most part, as I work saturdays and can rarely make it to proper tournaments, so competitiveness is not that important. That said, the one I play against the most just got a necron army for testing in sixth, and reading on these forums it does not bode well for me. :3

Regarding the OP, I was not sure how current and up to date it was, as I wasn't sure if it was written with the released rulebook in hand, but when I was reading the thread I noticed you mention that you are still updating the OP.

I have a bunch of black templar troops I can use as proxies as well, then I can buy some more grey knights to replace them next month. I think I will build one strike squad and one purified squad and test stuff out and see what I like the best. Thank you for pointing out that I can get the autocannons from the quad gun in the ADL. Since I need 4 arms and a quad gun as well, I might take a look at the box that contains two bastions and 4 quads, or I might just get the forgeworld variant depending on how expensive it gets.

I will drop the staff, and as learning 6th edition is enough at the moment, I have steered away from psykers and librarians, something I will come back to when I am more comfortable with the rules. I had a 7 hour long game yesterday at the local store just learning the rules again, and we didn't even finish! However, I know a lot of the people there so a lot of time was spent just talking to people dropping by the table we were playing at, and taking some longer breaks as well, but it was still pretty long.

Another game related question, I have a ton of rhinos/razorbacks lying around (sicne my other army is a SoB army) and a landraider crusader from my BT days (I have pretty much given up BT), is there any point using them anymore? Crusader just seems to expensive, especially when we can't assault out of it anymore, and having rhino's in the army seems to just give the enemy a free first blood and people on the forums say first blood is a pretty big deal now. Since you mention that acolytes are good for spamming tanks, I assume you put them in a razorback or chimera? Acolytes seems like an easy way to get scoring units on the table in combination with colteaz, and increasing the number of bodies in the squad shouldn't be too hard if that is what's needed, but at some point it must be better to just get another strike squad?

I also have a techmarine, and I bought him just because I liked the model so much, but never gotten much use out of him. I see you recommend him a bit, but I am not sure how he would fit in the list, isn´t me better if you are using a lot of mech?

A question regarding modeling rather than playing, I really don't like the look of colteaz and am wondering if it would be 'legal' for me to use a similar model, add a hammer to it, but without the eagle? Some helpful GW employee at the store in town told me I could just chop of the eagle from the colteaz model, and I assume he wouldn't have said that if I couldn't use it in tournaments afterwards. I would like to go a step further and use a completely different model as I just don't like the official model very much.

Thank you again for the help, and sorry for all the stupid newbie questions.

Necrons does suck, and if you really get beat too much, let us know and we'll see what we can craft up for you. Incidentially, 2+ armor are kind of good vs necrons actually.

The 1st page is actually fairly up to date. The last update was like just before thanksgiving

v1.1 means it's up to date with the latest rule book FAQ essentially.

Black templar proxies are going to be pretty handy in my opinion. One combo I think will work well for GK would be space wolves with nice rune priest power buffs/psy defense and more long fangs for support. Lower on the air support side of things however but it's a good combo especially if your local meta hasn't got too many aircraft yet. Just be careful of baleflamers from chaos.

Alternative place to get AC arms are second hand market sites like puppetzwars. They have them in resin premade and is a bit cheaper than getting more aegis lines.

Rhinos (and even sisters are really fun as allies well in my opinion, I personally run a fun St. Celestine + Justicar Thawn list that I use for friendly games), are still useful and can still work but I'll just preface by saying they are much harder to use to optimum effect now though not that impossible. Just treat them like extra squad member and it'll make alot of sense. An alternative use would be if you say have alot of repressors/immolators to proxy them as razorbacks and use cheap henchmen rhino spam which from the last tourny JY2 went to, still did very well with target saturation. Might need a dreadknight to really shine I think. JY2's opponent used essentially all 3 body henchemen with razorbacks and heavy bolters with psybolts backed up by a DK and psyfle dreads. Having coteaz means you have a good chance to go first so with that much firepower, you should be able to torrent things for first blood quite often. Just remember the new searchlight rules.

The land raider crusader with AC + psybolt is quite useful and still a very fun choice. As others have pointed out, DCA are very good taking advantage of the grenade launchers on it. I personally like to launch those or purifiers out of them as a melee build. Terminators also work.

The techmarine is quite good still in my opinion as either a grenade caddy in an assault unit, and buffing some fire support hiding in ruins with bolster as it'll be a 3+ cover save for like your dreadnaughts to use as a shooting platform. Combine him with like an assault purifier loadout inside the crusader can wreck face pretty much everywhere.

Coteaz model choice is more up to you. I personally like the model but as long as you remember that it will be your army and what you find to be good looking will be the most important rule! Good luck =)

**daedalus**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Problem is DCAs are just as likely to get killed in combat if they don't wipe out the enemy also. They are destined to be a one trick pony that can't perform that one trick unless in open ground, which is why hardly anyone uses them anymore.

For the most part, yes, and I've certainly had my fair share of that happening. I've also wiped Grey Hunter squads down to 2 guys, and then saved the wounds with an attached crusader's storm shield.

I do agree that they're hard to use and prone to getting wiped one way or the other. I also think that, at least for me and my meta, 90 points is a fair price for a fragile unit amidst a sea of 2+ and 3+ save units. I can afford to have one squishy unit.

Of course, the insanity that we saw a year ago where people were building entire armies of nothing but DCA might have been going a little too far.

**Acidian**

sudojoe wrote:

Necrons does suck, and if you really get beat too much, let us know and we'll see what we can craft up for you. Incidentially, 2+ armor are kind of good vs necrons actually.

The 1st page is actually fairly up to date. The last update was like just before thanksgiving v1.1 means it's up to date with the latest rule book FAQ essentially.

Black templar proxies are going to be pretty handy in my opinion. One combo I think will work well for GK would be space wolves with nice rune priest power buffs/psy defense and more long fangs for support. Lower on the air support side of things however but it's a good combo especially if your local meta hasn't got too many aircraft yet. Just be careful of baleflamers from chaos.

Alternative place to get AC arms are second hand market sites like puppetzwars. They have them in resin premade and is a bit cheaper than getting more aegis lines.

Rhinos (and even sisters are really fun as allies well in my opinion, I personally run a fun St. Celestine + Justicar Thawn list that I use for friendly games), are still useful and can still work but I'll just preface by saying they are much harder to use to optimum effect now though not that impossible. Just treat them like extra squad member and it'll make alot of sense. An alternative use would be if you say have alot of repressors/immolators to proxy them as razorbacks and use cheap henchmen rhino spam which from the last tourny JY2 went to, still did very well with target saturation. Might need a dreadknight to really shine I think. JY2's opponent used essentially all 3 body henchemen with razorbacks and heavy bolters with psybolts backed up by a DK and psyfle dreads. Having coteaz means you have a good chance to go first so with that much firepower, you should be able to torrent things for first blood quite often. Just remember the new searchlight rules.

The land raider crusader with AC + psybolt is quite useful and still a very fun choice. As others have pointed out, DCA are very good taking advantage of the grenade launchers on it. I personally like to launch those or purifiers out of them as a melee build. Terminators also work.

The techmarine is quite good still in my opinion as either a grenade caddy in an assault unit, and buffing some fire support hiding in ruins with bolster as it'll be a 3+ cover save for like your dreadnaughts to use as a shooting platform. Combine him with like an assault purifier loadout inside the crusader can wreck face pretty much everywhere.

Coteaz model choice is more up to you. I personally like the model but as long as you remember that it will be your army and what you find to be good looking will be the most important rule! Good luck =)

I will have to check that puppetswars page and see what bits they have, but right now I think I am going to get a buddy inn on the box that contains the two bastions and 4 ADF, as I want to test and see how bastions works as well now.

This is what I ended up doing with colteaz: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95293/IMAG0199.jpg
Don't want to stray too far off topic, but I just used a BT sword brethren with a paladin head (I always use helmets when I can, think gw heads look like crap) and a hammer from the regular squad box, then filed off the templar mark on the shoulderpad. This was my first time spraying white, and I must have messed something up because I have lost too much detail on the plastic pieces, and there are some strange black lines on them as well. Seems like I used too much paint, but I used about the same amount as I do on my black spray. Still thought it went pretty well as my first remodeling job.

Since I kept my terminators I am going to try and test them from my land raider crusader and am actually pretty psyched about doing it.

Now I just need to figure out if I want hurricane bolters on my raven or not, went with melta and las as my other options. I noticed you can put a dreadnaught in this thing, but don't know if that is a good idea or not, it is a fun idea though.

**daedalus**

Don't attach your dread to the stormraven. GK Dreads should be shooting every moment they can. The problem here is that he cant shoot from the back of the raven, and sadly, pretty much any build of the Dread is outshined by the psyfleman. The only other build I would consider is asscannon+TLAC.

**sudojoe**

I'm fixing on buying some space wolf allies lately now to make my lists more all comers and I'm debating on basically a GK shooting line with space wolf psyker defense with rune priests.

one of them probably will be my JAWS priest and the other a divination buffer for some long fang squad. Probably a cheap grey hunter squad in a drop pod along with priest (or just have priest hang out in midfield behind LOS) as well as lone wolf deep striking somewhere.

GK to bring storm raven, DK and psyfledread. coteaz, 1 squad of purifiers, and then shooty strikes with some shooty henchmen.

Sounds good on paper so far but really hard to fit in enough stuff at 1500 points. As I'm still shopping for models, think I'm better off with some missle fangs or like multi-meltas or las cannons better for the long fangs? And I'm still not sure what to do with the lone wolf. Never ran one before and now sure how to best equip him. It'd really change what model I shop for if I can pre-determine wargear.

Another delimia I'm having is my GK + necron army seems to be mostly necron assault (d.lord + wraiths, min war squad + doomscythe and night scythe). Thinking of trying something with necron shooting and GK assault. Anyone find that one works better or the other? (thinking like modrak assault + shunting DK along with crons immortal shooting via tesla or is heavy gauss better? arrg)

**serotol**

Hi there guys, what do you think is better on a 2000pt list, a grand master, or an ordo xenos inquisitor and a dreadknight,

the list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/492408.page

the grand master would make the paladins scoring (which is huge), but they would lose precience and a dreadknight always comes handy. help!!

**Kohala**

I haven't seen or hear about GK players deep striking their Strike Squads a lot. Is there a reason or major downside to this? It seems like a great way to get your strike squads into 24" gun range right away.

I was toying with a list @1850 of:

Grandmaster 2x servo skulls
4 Strike Squads
2 DKs with teleporters and heavy incinerators
1 Storm Raven

I could start with DKs and 1 strike squad on board, and deep strike 3 Strikes turn 2, along with shunting the DK's at the same time. Seemed like a solid idea to me, but everyone seems to favor rhinos or footslogging.

**serotol**

does the grandmaster starts on board?

**Kohala**

serotol wrote:
does the grandmaster starts on board?

Unfortunately yes, as I would probably want to use psychic communion just to be safe. Would be better if he was deep striking though.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Kohala wrote:
I haven't seen or hear about GK players deep striking their Strike Squads a lot. Is there a reason or major downside to this? It seems like a great way to get your strike squads into 24" gun range right away.

I was toying with a list @1850 of:

Grandmaster 2x servo skulls
4 Strike Squads
2 DKs with teleporters and heavy incinerators
1 Storm Raven

I could start with DKs and 1 strike squad on board, and deep strike 3 Strikes turn 2, along with shunting the DK's at the same time. Seemed like a solid idea to me, but everyone seems to favor rhinos or footslogging.

I only Deep Strike my Strikes when there's a very good reason, such as facing Tau in Hammer and Anvil. Otherwise having all that firepower to bear from turn 1 is a much better course of action.

**FormlessDragon**

sudojoe wrote:
Another delimia I'm having is my GK + necron army seems to be mostly necron assault (d.lord + wraiths, min war squad + doomscythe and night scythe). Thinking of trying something with necron shooting and GK assault. Anyone find that one works better or the other? (thinking like modrak assault + shunting DK along with crons immortal shooting via tesla or is heavy gauss better? arrg)

I like this shooty-cron-assaulty/shooty-gk build:

HQ
Necron Overlord (Warscythe, ResOrb) - 120
Inquisitor [Grey Knights] + 3x Servo Skulls - 34
Elite
Necron Overlord's Royal Court (2x Harbingers of the Storm) - 50
Troops
Warriors (20x) + Ghost Ark - 375
Immortals (10x) Tesla Carbines - 170
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Nemesis Dreadknight [Grey Knights] + Heavy Incinerator + Personal Teleporter - 270

30x T4 Warriors (20x) with killer Reanimation+Ghost Ark+ResOrb
10x T4 Immortals with near MEQ saves PLUS Reanimation
20x T4 Marines with Psycannons and Power Weapons
That's a pretty decent amount of survivable boots on the ground!

(Overlord goes with Warrior blob. Harbys go in the Night Scythes as armor crackers. Deep Strike the Strike Squads and Dreadknight on a Servo Skull to reduce scatter. Necrons hold the backfield and march forward to midfield. Grey Knights take the midfield and march forward to opponent's deployment.)

This build has about 31 points to spare, short of 2k. (Bumping up the Inquisitor to a Psyker with Divination powers is fun.)
(You could also drop a couple Warriors from the blob to get a Harby of Destruction and a Solar Pulse to help on that first turn before Deep Strikers and Night Scythes arrive, and the Pulse Tek can sit in the Ghost Ark and fire at a different target than the blob.)

**Godless-Mimicry**

I don't see the point of that list; the Necrons aren't adding anything the Grey Knight don't already have and vice versa. If you are going to ally Necrons and Grey Knights, you spam Scythes or Wraiths to add something new for the Grey Knights. Otherwise the list has no synergy, it's just some mid-range shooting units from one army along side some rid-range shooting units from another. The Grey Knights have so little presence you'd be better off just playing Necrons.

**LValx**

I'd disagree with you on that Godless. That list is pretty good. My only gripe is that the inquisitor is pretty worthless, find the points for coteaz or find the points for a psycannon inquisitor with prescience. Necrons allow you to take cheap fliers and some cheap AV13. The DK works really nicely with a list like that due to it requiring the same sort of firepower that the AV13 requires to disable. I'd probably drop the Personal Teleporter on the DK for a better GK HQ. I am also not crazy about small amounts of fliers as I find that without strength in numbers they end up dying too easily. I'd probably take a 3rd Anni Barge and maybe a second Ghost Ark. That'll give 5 AV13 vehicles and a 2+ MC that are tough to take down. The infantry numbers are strong and at midfield you should be able to blow most folks off the table. For this reason I'd also consider a Pulse, just to ensure that you will make it to midfield with relatively few casualties. 1 Veiltek to put with the big blob would also be quite good as it gives you a way to throw the weight of that unit around during the end game.

I understand why someone would recommend Wraiths, but with shooting being so much better than assault in 6th, I'd rather have the cheap 'Cron firepower.

**FormlessDragon**

LValx wrote:
I'd disagree with you on that Godless. That list is pretty good. My only gripe is that the inquisitor is pretty worthless, find the points for coteaz or find the points for a psycannon inquisitor with prescience. Necrons allow you to take cheap fliers and some cheap AV13. The DK works really nicely with a list like that due to it requiring the same sort of firepower that the AV13 requires to disable. I'd probably drop the Personal Teleporter on the DK for a better GK HQ. I am also not crazy about small amounts of fliers as I find that without strength in numbers they end up dying too easily. I'd probably take a 3rd Anni Barge and maybe a second Ghost Ark. That'll give 5 AV13 vehicles and a 2+ MC that are tough to take down. The infantry numbers are strong and at midfield you should be able to blow most folks off the table. For this reason I'd also consider a Pulse, just to ensure that you will make it to midfield with relatively few casualties. 1 Veiltek to put with the big blob would also be quite good as it gives you a way to throw the weight of that unit around during the end game.

I understand why someone would recommend Wraiths, but with shooting being so much better than assault in 6th, I'd rather have the cheap 'Cron firepower.

So a little bit more like this:

HQ
Necron Overlord (Warscythe, ResOrb) - 120
Inquisitor [Grey Knights] + Termy Armor + Psyker + Psycannon + 3x Servo Skulls - 119
Elite
Necron Overlord's Royal Court (2x Harbingers of the Storm) - 50
Troops
Warriors (15x) + Ghost Ark - 310
Warriors (10x) + Ghost Ark - 245
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Nemesis Dreadknight [Grey Knights] + Heavy Incinerator - 160

Ok, so this comes in at 2,044 points (and its before I could add a Pulse Tek).
Lost 5 Warriors in the trade, but gained a 2nd Ghost Ark, a 3rd Annih Barge, and lost the PT on the Dreadknight. Oh yeah, and got the Termy Psycan Inquisitor with Divination.

You would need to cut just a bit more to get under 2k, and a bit more than that to add in the Pulse Tek.

**Godless-Mimicry**

LValx wrote:
I'd disagree with you on that Godless. That list is pretty good.

I never said it wasn't good, I just said I don't see why he isn't playing pure Necrons, as it would be stronger than that particular list. Generally when it comes to allies there's a simple rule; if it fills a gap and synergises it's stronger (e.g. Grey Knights with Scythe SPAM), if it fills the same roles with little synergy it is diluted and weaker (e.g. above).

If you drop the Ghost Arks for two more Scythes in the list above you start getting some of that, however the Grey Knights are still too weak a presence and don't fill any gaps. Terminators would work better than Strikes for that list because they give Crons something they don't have, whereas Strikes fulfil the same role as Warriors and Immortals. With Terminators you make target priority difficult for the enemy, as Terminators and Necrons both need dedicated offense to take them down, whereas MEQ don't so much. Thawn in particular works very well along side Necrons.

**LValx**

The major weakness of a Necron army is troops that lack offensive punch. Sure they are basically marines in survivability but they lack any counterattack threat and don't even shoot particularly well outside of 12", Strikes give you some decent anti-meq counter attack and give you great 24" shooting. I think they fit perfectly and do provide an extra dimension.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Formless. I like that list!

**Grey Templar**

Tesla Immortals have superior offensive punch then Warriors.

Warriors are taken in large blobs as tarpits(when babysat by Ghost Arks)

**sudojoe**

I personally hate fighting tesla immortals but there's always a nagging feeling that I want to take the heavy gauss guns instead. I currently have constructed some 10 tesla immortals, but wondering if I should make anymore with heavy gauss or just depend on the warriors for that?

Reason I'm trying to move away a bit from scythe spam is that more and more people seem to allow forgeworld stuff now a days and skyfire/interceptors are getting very nasty with like saber defense platforms. I already have 3 necron fliers atm and can always sub in a 3 day old croissant if I need more I suppose

Trying to come up with more anti-all comers atm. Given the effectiveness of baleflamers and vector stirking dragons, I'm getting the itch that there will soon come another meta change. Just trying to stay ahead of the curve atm

*hence the experiment with drop pods and space wolf craziness along with shifting my necron abilities*

**Grey Templar**

The Heavy Gauss guns are only superior against vehicles. Tesla is far superior against everything else, even things your AP ignores the armor of.

**Godless-Mimicry**

LValx wrote:
The major weakness of a Necron army is troops that lack offensive punch. Sure they are basically marines in survivability but they lack any counterattack threat and don't even shoot particularly well outside of 12", Strikes give you some decent anti-meq counter attack and give you great 24" shooting. I think they fit perfectly and do provide an extra dimension.

Just because the Strikes do the role better than the Warriors (and they should considering the extra cost) that doesn't mean their role is different. They are both shooty units, but focusing on rate of fire, and both operate at mid-table. What happens when you put those units down together is the opponent blasts those Strikes away first because it's a very simple case of which is easier to kill. If that was a unit of Terminators on the other hand that distinction is no longer so clear. And if you are specifically looking for anti-MEQ then take one of the much better options in the Necron Codex for that role, because that is not what Strikes excel at.

Grey Knights and Necrons as an allied combo have placed at some tournaments AFAIK, but none of the lists looked like the one above. If allies are to be effective, they have to perfectly compliment each other, which these particular units don't do.

**tuiman**

I agree with godless.

If you are going to ally you really really have to think about what you want. Especially because gk have no battle-brothers. You have to take something that you cant get in our book. Otherwise you will just be wasting points.

You take strike squads for spamming strength 5 shooting and psycannon, they are not combat units. No different to taking 10 immortals with tesla for less points. The list is alright but I kind of agree with everything said above, you could be just as good playing pure crons.

Just my 2c

**Goat**

sudojoe wrote:
I personally hate fighting tesla immortals but there's always a nagging feeling that I want to take the heavy gauss guns instead. I currently have constructed some 10 tesla immortals, but wondering if I should make anymore with heavy gauss or just depend on the warriors for that?

Reason I'm trying to move away a bit from scythe spam is that more and more people seem to allow forgeworld stuff now a days and skyfire/interceptors are getting very nasty with like saber defense platforms. I already have 3 necron fliers atm and can always sub in a 3 day old croissant if I need more I suppose

Trying to come up with more anti-all comers atm. Given the effectiveness of baleflamers and vector stirking dragons, I'm getting the itch that there will soon come another meta change. Just trying to stay ahead of the curve atm *hence the experiment with drop pods and space wolf craziness along with shifting my necron abilities*

The last part about wolf craziness, OMG a buddy of mine plays wolves and another one just converted. Half of my meta is now combi-wolfguard drop pods and grey hunter drop pods backed by missle fun and a divination priest.

Turn 1 is so key that its make or break for the game. If I go first warp quake all over the place and I'm fine, I can protect things from the rain of plasma. I enjoy the tactic because I'm jelly that I don't get to use drop pods. I wish we had the 1d6 scatter like BA since GK fluff is surgical insertions, do the deed and get out of dodge.

**serotol**

I already posted this ealier but got no answers so I'll ask again what do you think is better on a 2000pt list, a grand master, or an ordo xenos inquisitor and a dreadknight,

the list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/492408.page

the grand master would make the paladins scoring (which is huge), but they would lose precience and a dreadknight always comes handy.

**Goat**

serotol wrote:
I already posted this ealier but got no answers so I'll ask again what do you think is better on a 2000pt list, a grand master, or an ordo xenos inquisitor and a dreadknight,

the list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/492408.page

the grand master would make the paladins scoring (which is huge), but they would lose precience and a dreadknight always comes handy.

At 2k I'd take a GM, Coteaz and 2 heavy incinerator/teleporting DK's. The rest I'd fill in with troops and a stormraven.

**FormlessDragon**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
LValx wrote:
The major weakness of a Necron army is troops that lack offensive punch. Sure they are basically marines in survivability but they lack any counterattack threat and don't even shoot particularly well outside of 12", Strikes give you some decent anti-meq counter attack and give you great 24" shooting. I think they fit perfectly and do provide an extra dimension.

Just because the Strikes do the role better than the Warriors (and they should considering the extra cost) that doesn't mean their role is different. They are both shooty units, but focusing on rate of fire, and both operate at mid-table. What happens when you put those units down together is the opponent blasts those Strikes away first because it's a very simple case of which is easier to kill. If that was a unit of Terminators on the other hand that distinction is no longer so clear. And if you are specifically looking for anti-MEQ then take one of the much better options in the Necron Codex for that role, because that is not what Strikes excel at.

Grey Knights and Necrons as an allied combo have placed at some tournaments AFAIK, but none of the lists looked like the one above. If allies are to be effective, they have to perfectly compliment each other, which these particular units don't do.

@godless
I want to understand more. (I have very limited experience... collecting for about 2 or 3 months... have played a grand total of 1 game now.)
Can you give me a comparative analysis between GK and Necron units so that I can understand the niches a particular unit excels at, and which race does it better (or does it effectively for cheaper points)?
(Maybe you could start with what the niches are? I'm guessing things like Anti-Infantry (Anti-TEQ, Anti-MEQ, Anti-GEQ), Anti-Tank, Anti-Flyer. I'm also guessing that how they get the job done can factor in (close combat, range to 12", range to 24", long range, etc.))

A tactical understanding of what niche each GK unit excels at, and an understanding of how that niche can have synergy with other niches would be immensely tactically useful to a beginner like myself.

**jy2**

serotol wrote:
I already posted this ealier but got no answers so I'll ask again what do you think is better on a 2000pt list, a grand master, or an ordo xenos inquisitor and a dreadknight,

the list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/492408.page

the grand master would make the paladins scoring (which is huge), but they would lose precience and a dreadknight always comes handy.

If you're going to take a paladin army, then you need to really consider Draigo. He can make the paladins scoring as well as the dreadknights (or give your pallies re-roll's of 1's). More importantly, he will be your tanking character to keep your pallies alive, absorbing those lascannons, meltas, lances, powerfists and othe insta-killing attacks.

However, if you don't want to go the Draigo route, then I'd probably keep it as-is. They don't really need to be scoring. I'd play them more as a sacrificial unit going to contest the enemy. Keep your support units like the dreadknight. You can also improve on the list:

- Drop all those excessive wargear on the Inquisitor. Just make him a Lvl 1 psyker so that he can give your strikers Prescience.

- Your 2 rhinos are just going to be easy First Blood points. Consider swapping them out for an ADL with quad-guns. I like the ADL for a primarily foot-lists. It also helps against flyers which you aren't too strong with.

- If you want a little more scoring, add 1 or even 2 3x henchmen units. Hey, can't get any cheaper than a 12-pt scoring unit.

- Remember, don't put the MC-Daemon hammers on your striker justicars. They're just going to be challenge-bait.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

FormlessDragon wrote:

HQ
Necron Overlord (Warscythe, ResOrb) - 120
Inquisitor [Grey Knights] + Termy Armor + Psyker + Psycannon + 3x Servo Skulls - 119
Elite
Necron Overlord's Royal Court (2x Harbingers of the Storm) - 50
Troops
Warriors (15x) + Ghost Ark - 310
Warriors (10x) + Ghost Ark - 245
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Nemesis Dreadknight [Grey Knights] + Heavy Incinerator - 160

Ok, so this comes in at 2,044 points (and its before I could add a Pulse Tek).
Lost 5 Warriors in the trade, but gained a 2nd Ghost Ark, a 3rd Annih Barge, and lost the PT on the Dreadknight. Oh yeah, and got the Termy Psycan Inquisitor with Divination.

You would need to cut just a bit more to get under 2k, and a bit more than that to add in the Pulse Tek.

The list is actually pretty good. Here are some suggestions though:

- You need Mindshackle Scarabs for your Overlord. MSS is a MUST.

- You need Psybolt Ammo on your strikers. Psybolt ammo on a 10-man striker squad is a MUST.

- I would downsize the warriors so that they + crypteks + any IC's can all fit within the ghost ark. By reducing the 15-man warrior unit, then you should have some points for the above upgrades.

- If you have enough points leftover, consider either 1) putting 1 hammer on the strike squads (not on the Justicar) or 2) upgrading those storm-teks to lance-teks (crypteks with eldritch lance).

**FormlessDragon**

jy2 wrote:
FormlessDragon wrote:

Spoiler:

HQ
Necron Overlord (Warscythe, ResOrb) - 120
Inquisitor [Grey Knights] + Termy Armor + Psyker + Psycannon + 3x Servo Skulls - 119
Elite
Necron Overlord's Royal Court (2x Harbingers of the Storm) - 50
Troops
Warriors (15x) + Ghost Ark - 310
Warriors (10x) + Ghost Ark - 245
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons - 220
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Nemesis Dreadknight [Grey Knights] + Heavy Incinerator - 160

Ok, so this comes in at 2,044 points (and its before I could add a Pulse Tek).
Lost 5 Warriors in the trade, but gained a 2nd Ghost Ark, a 3rd Annih Barge, and lost the PT on the Dreadknight. Oh yeah, and got the Termy Psycan Inquisitor with Divination.

You would need to cut just a bit more to get under 2k, and a bit more than that to add in the Pulse Tek.

The list is actually pretty good. Here are some suggestions though:

- You need Mindshackle Scarabs for your Overlord. MSS is a MUST.

- You need Psybolt Ammo on your strikers. Psybolt ammo on a 10-man striker squad is a MUST.

- I would downsize the warriors so that they + crypteks + any IC's can all fit within the ghost ark. By reducing the 15-man warrior unit, then you should have some points for the above upgrades.

- If you have enough points leftover, consider either 1) putting 1 hammer on the strike squads (not on the Justicar) or 2) upgrading those storm-teks to lance-teks (crypteks with eldritch lance).

Ok, let's retool a bit with jy2's advice:

HQ
Necron Overlord (Warscythe, ResOrb, MSS) - 145
Inquisitor [Grey Knights] + Termy Armor + Psyker + Psycannon + 3x Servo Skulls - 119
Elite
Necron Overlord's Royal Court (2x Harbingers of Destruction) - 70
Troops
Warriors (8x) + Ghost Ark - 219
Warriors (9x) + Ghost Ark - 232
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Warriors (5x) + Night Scythe - 165
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons + Psybolt Ammo - 240
Strike Squad (10x) [Grey Knights] + 2x Psycannons + Psybolt Ammo - 240
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Annihilation Barge - 90
Nemesis Dreadknight [Grey Knights] + Heavy Incinerator - 160

(Overlord and one Eldrich Lance plus 8 warriors in one of the Ghost Arks. The other Eldrich Lance plus 9 warriors in the other Ghost Ark.)

Ok, this brings the list in at 2,015 points.
We dropped 8 warriors between the two Ghost Ark squads. The crypteks were upgraded to Harbys of Destruction (Eldrich Lance). And the Strikes added Psybolt Ammo. Oh and the Overlord added MSS.

(The ResOrb doesn't feel as useful in a squad of 8 warriors that are INSIDE the Ghost Ark. Maybe drop the ResOrb and pick up S.Weave to come in at 2,000 points even.)

How does it look now?

**jy2**

FormlessDragon wrote:
(The ResOrb doesn't feel as useful in a squad of 8 warriors that are INSIDE the Ghost Ark. Maybe drop the ResOrb and pick up S.Weave to come in at 2,000 points even.)

How does it look now?

Good idea about dropping the ResOrb for 2+. The list looks good.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@FormlessDragon

Also, I'd swap out the psycannon Inquisitor for Coteaz. Coteaz is a much better buy. He's a cheap force multiplier unit that provides 2 psychic powers each turn, gives you some protection against deepstriking armies like drop pods and daemons, and is decent in close-combat (at least more so than the inquisitor).

**Goat**

OK, so I have a wakky double tournement coming up. 2500 per side. The points can swing anyway but each player much bring a minimum of 1HQ and 2 Troops. I have a core list built for this already but I am having a debat with myself to either bring a second teleporting flamer dreadknight or mordrak and ghost knights. The list is a total alpha striking list.
HQ:
Mordrak
5x Ghost Knights

Troops:
Strike squad x10 with 2 cannons
Strike squad x5 with a cannon

FA:
Interceptors x10 with 2 cannons and Psybolt ammo
Interceptors x10 with 2 cannons

HV:
Dreadknight with flamer and teleporter

Second player has
HQ:
Rune Priest joins 9 WG in a pod

Troops:
Grey hunters x10 with 2x plasma in a pod
GH x7

Elite:
WolfGuard x9 with 9x combi-plasma in a pod
Wolfguard x10 with 6x combi plasma and 4x combi melta in a pod
wolfguard x1 joins the 7 GHs just chillin.

this alpha strike list or cut the mordrak and ghost knights for another teleporting DK with a flamer. Mordrak would be switch with a no name grandmaster.

**LValx**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
LValx wrote:
The major weakness of a Necron army is troops that lack offensive punch. Sure they are basically marines in survivability but they lack any counterattack threat and don't even shoot particularly well outside of 12", Strikes give you some decent anti-meq counter attack and give you great 24" shooting. I think they fit perfectly and do provide an extra dimension.

Just because the Strikes do the role better than the Warriors (and they should considering the extra cost) that doesn't mean their role is different. They are both shooty units, but focusing on rate of fire, and both operate at mid-table. What happens when you put those units down together is the opponent blasts those Strikes away first because it's a very simple case of which is easier to kill. If that was a unit of Terminators on the other hand that distinction is no longer so clear. And if you are specifically looking for anti-MEQ then take one of the much better options in the Necron Codex for that role, because that is not what Strikes excel at.

Grey Knights and Necrons as an allied combo have placed at some tournaments AFAIK, but none of the lists looked like the one above. If allies are to be effective, they have to perfectly compliment each other, which these particular units don't do.

I disagree with you. 20 Strikes, especially when 10 have a TEQ IC with 3 wounds attached are not particularly easy to blow off the table. You can also deploy in a defensive formation to keep the strikes from easily being targeted on turn 1. TEQ isn't a better buy because they have less rate of fire and are also killed by the same sort of firepower that kills marines, massed small arms. Obviously Strikes don't excel at anti-MEQ but they do provide a nice little counter-attack that makes it tougher to simply bull-rush the Necron lines. I've been running a list quite similar in composition that has been doing quite well so I contend with your statements that it doesn't synergise well. Warriors aren't very effective at mid-range shooting, they are effective at close-range firepower, the Strikes give true mid-range shooting because they can fire at full effect while staying out of 12".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also don't believe MSS are a MUST. I never take them and have only regretted taking them when I have.

Psybolts are good if you can find the points but I also disagree that they are a MUST. They put a bigger bulls-eye on the Strikes which makes it all the more likely that the opponent focuses on them first.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also rather have 4 Str. 5 Haywire shots than 1 Str 8 shot. Single lances aren't very impressive and I find them to be pretty points inefficient. 12" Haywire synergizes well because the Warriors themselves are best suited to blasting things at close-range.