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 Zweischneid wrote:
Reaper may be one of the companies that breaks the trend, but generally speaking, the more a Kickstarter is overfunded, the more likely is a delay and the longer is the delay it seems.

Of course, ignoring that that statistic is for the "Design and Technology" category and isn't to be extrapolated elsewhere - Reaper is already 100 steps ahead of the game in many different ways.

They have their own facilities already to handle everything except the manufacture. Most Kickstarters are at the guy in his garage point of things. If they are successful, they either have to figure out how to work from their garage or go through the process of finding, fitting and hiring people to do work.

They also have experience shipping stuff. There is a good bit of difference between doing production order fulfillment for a living - and packing up a few eBay orders every month or year. There work should be more efficient once it starts.

They have an existing manufacturing partner. Although they aren't doing the actual production in house - they are using a company who they have been using for quite awhile. Not having to go through that "get to know one another" phase prevents a lot of stumbling blocks that start ups face, not to mention all the ones who don't even know who they will be using as a manufacturer to begin with.

They have a bug free product already. With the translucent plastics, they aren't doing anything "new" - no need for prototypes and testing. Things can move straight into production. The company in China which will be doing the work apparently makes toys when they aren't making miniatures - so if I had to guess, the clear plastics have been tested already in dollar stores around the world already.

They are an actual business. Sounds snooty - but it makes a good bit of difference. If someone were to show up and hand you $3.4 million dollars tomorrow and tell you to go make some miniatures, you wouldn't know where to begin (OK - maybe you might...but many people wouldn't). Things like the tax paperwork, license agreements, sculptor's contracts, workman's comp insurance... They all slow things down when you are getting things going. They get in the way of actually doing work. For Reaper, that is all done and behind them. They just need to fill out a few additional forms when they file their taxes and will likely be good to go.

So, while I am pretty sure they will come very close to their deadline (might miss by a week or two just due to the sheer volume) - if they do, it won't be because they broke the trend at all. The trend which was pointed at, doesn't really apply to them at all to begin with. A more detailed comparison would need to be done comparing start ups versus existing companies. Most the ones who face long delays are likely start ups. Most the ones who deliver on time are probably existing companies.

Uh.. someone's touchy there

Hey, if you are right, more power to you (and Reaper). Not saying they will delay.

Yes, the sample IS based the on Design and Technology category. They also give a reason why they chose that category as their sample:

Projects in the Design and Technology categories are used since they deliver concrete products as rewards and are required by Kickstarter to have a manufacturing plan and a functional prototype.

So yeah, I think this translates reasonably well to companies and Kickstarters like Reaper (though not necessarily Reaper itself). There are no "garage-guy-dreaming-wild" projects in the sample. The selection was specifically one that only includes people who already have a prototype, often an early (or different) product and a manufacturing plan with the details set in place.

Of course, that doesn't require quite as established a company as Reaper. And of course, most stuff on Kickstarter are Start-ups (that's what the place is for, companies like Reaper shouldn't be there in the first place), but the data only samples from those that do have more than just a plan on a napkin.

 poda_t wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I think the only thing you can trade in the Vampire level is the Sophie, but perhaps that will change.

check the videos, one of them mentions that if you don't want X, you can trade it for Y, and one of them was sophie. They hinted that when the survey or manager or whatever comes out...

I really, really hope you're right!

Nope, it's only Sophie that can be traded.

Anyone interested in trading the Chronoscope guys when they get delivered, let me know, I'd like fantasy guys in a 1 for 1. trade per figure.

PM me if your interested.


Oh yeah- back to your regularly schedualed rant.


Reaper has cut thier teeth in more then one occasion. They have made thier bones ( heh heh) and have my vote of confidence in this endevor.

I'm going to go on and throw it out there that they will not be the last to move from metal.


A little bird tells me that Tin/ metals has issues...


Dig, young padowan.... dig.

http://www.metalprices.com/dailyexchangedata/LMESummary/LME/LSN

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/business/indonesian-tin-smelters-halt-output-amid-bear-market-rout/536243

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/08/10/ongoing-spat-ruins-tin-market-dream.html

http://tininvestingnews.com/tag/jakarta-composite-index

I wonder once everyone gets a chance to finish adding on options from the pledge manager...what will the total amount be for all the pledges

 ironicsilence wrote:
I wonder once everyone gets a chance to finish adding on options from the pledge manager...what will the total amount be for all the pledges

should be crazy

 ironicsilence wrote:
I wonder once everyone gets a chance to finish adding on options from the pledge manager...what will the total amount be for all the pledges

Don't think we will ever know unless Reaper decides to release the info. The post-KS add ons are not added to the KS total.

Tim

That's where they hit $4m

JWMarines wrote:
That's where they hit $4m

Without paying Kickstarter 3%

I've backed 5 games on Kickstarter, only 1 of which did not deliver on time.

Zpocalypse by Greenbier Games is completely guilty of having a kickstarter that outperformed their expectations and keeping up with the demands of it is going to take months longer than their original projected delivery date.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Of course, that doesn't require quite as established a company as Reaper. And of course, most stuff on Kickstarter are Start-ups (that's what the place is for, companies like Reaper shouldn't be there in the first place),

Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.

Is there some statement that only $-poor startups can use kickstarter? Exactly how young/cash-strapped/inexperienced does a company have to be to be kickstarter-worthy?

Sorry if this comes off a bit harsh, but I really like this project and would like to see other established companies use kickstarter to startup new products that fans want.

Eilif wrote:
Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.

If he hates that, what would he think of this???

HA! Penny arcade. Truly selling out... with Style!

It's a funding method, period!
People pay for what they WANT. It's ins't entirely cheap (as they need to pay Kickstarter as well) BUT there is no business plan checking or credit checking.

Just the fire of business and trust.

Hey guys, I'm part of a podcast called "The Nerdherders" and we scored an interview with Bryan Stiltz, the production manager over at Reaper about the kickstarter. We got some good info from him about it. You can check it out here directly:

http://traffic.libsyn.com/nerdherders/Nerdherders_Exclusive_Reaper_Miniatures_Kickstarter_Interview.mp3

and it should be up on our iTunes feed within the next day. Feel free to check out our other episodes too!

www.3nerds.us

I can't wait to add in all the extras I want. Jumped in at the last minute on this one.

 Slinky wrote:
Nope, it's only Sophie that can be traded.

I bet you your Sophie and and nethyrmaul that you can and will be able to do trades and exchanges. I don't have to worry about you not having ordered nethyrmaul, because I know that if you went in at vampire, you'll be able to trade stuff in to get it.


I will tell you why they will allow it. They had a lot of people whining every step of the way. Say,for every 10 that asked for one thing to be released In the campaign, another 100 whinged about it's release, case in point are the halflings. In order to keep people happy, reaper will be willing to permit trades (probably the entire reward lots, as they were unlocked), to give whiners what they actually want. The advantage of doing this is it cuts down on the labor, material cost and shipping for those that do choose to trade into a smaller box, and it also does reaper the favor of taking away miiatures from resellers preventing a saturation of the market come April. It's true, they are already paid, so its not like they are losing money, but presented with the option of giving you less dollar value on account of the fact that it's what you want, then it seems like a good idea to save a few hundred runs of chronoscope series to sell them at full store value since it works out to bring in more than the one model you traded it for. They have about 2-3 weeks before they actually start receiving the orders from their clients via survey, and they could easily find a way of making a trade system with the time to spare, if they havem't done so already.
It's been hinted at often in the videos and I don't know where'd else that they want to give the backers to. Get what they want, not just a pile of stuff.

@poda_t: Any reason you think this? If they said this in the actual Kickstarter I imagine they would have gotten a lot more people that would have wanted just the sci-fi stuff.

Bah, ninjad before my edit -_-

The reason I say that is that I was following the KS comments fairly closely and that is exactly what Reaper said in the comments

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Where do you get off saying that Reaper shouldn't be on Kickstarter? There's no reason they can't use it same as anyone else. It seems like Kickstarter was the ideal method for raising enough $ to take bones from a slowly released sideline to a major production with massive fan support.

If he hates that, what would he think of this???

I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity-returns).

That said.. I don't "hate" Reaper. I've got my own box of Bones incoming.

But Kickstarter is (at least at the moment) also a place where lots of start-ups and/or non-business causes thrive.

If Reaper goes to bed with them by joining a "start-up" platform, it shouldn't be surprised by also being "included" in Kickstarter statistics and analytics and extrapolation of trends.

The hypocrisy of A) we use Kickstarter cause it get's $$$$ but B) we're sooooo much better than all the other riff-raff on Kickstarter cause we're a "proper company" and the others don't know what they're doing stinks. That's all.

 Zweischneid wrote:


I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity-returns).

You really should investigate them a little more. These guys ARE a business. They sponsor and run a major gaming convention, fer cryin out loud.

At the end of the day, Kickstarter is a CROWDfunding site, and the crowd will decide what should or should not be there via their wallets. Not your's, mine, or any other single person's opinion.

 Zweischneid wrote:

The hypocrisy of A) we use Kickstarter cause it get's $$$$ but B) we're sooooo much better than all the other riff-raff on Kickstarter cause we're a "proper company" and the others don't know what they're doing stinks. That's all.

Not sure how you justify this statement. I haven't seen anything from Reaper even remotely like that.

~Eric

 Slinky wrote:
The reason I say that is that I was following the KS comments fairly closely and that is exactly what Reaper said in the comments

Slinky is correct,
I followed every page of the 100+ thread on Reaper's Forums until the kickstarter ended. Throughout the process Reaper has made it clear that Sophie is the only exchangeable choice. There's even a bones trading thread on the Reaper forum. People are free to believe whatever they want, but there is exactly no evidence that anything beyond Sophie is exchangeable and plenty of evidence in the opposite direction.

I have to say that I would love to see the full kickstarter dungeon... just to see what we could have unlocked

I think this is quite a lot better, mainly because this isn't a business-venture that could and should get regular (bank or stockmarket) investment to start (and return proper equity to those who invest, rather than consumer goods), but a "cause" that actually depends on fan-supported "funding" of people who identify with the cause (less dissimilar, perhaps, to traditional forms of "funding" for a political cause or an academic scholarship, which all rely on "funding" to support a worthy cause, rather than an up-front "investment" that shirks away from paying its "investors" proper equity

Reaper used the kickstarter to offer its customers a prepayment facility which is a type of investment used frequently to expand factories or mines. Google it and you will see lots of gold mines doing the same thing with hedge funds investing. Essentially you loan the company money and get repaid in product at a better price than market when the loan is due. Not all investments give you equity in a business.

Slightly annoyed that I missed out on this. Looks like it was an awesome deal.

Kirika wrote:
Slightly annoyed that I missed out on this. Looks like it was an awesome deal.

Keep your eyes peeled - I doubt they will demo at pax without some way to pre sell the new models.

czakk wrote:


Reaper used the kickstarter to offer its customers a prepayment facility which is a type of investment used frequently to expand factories or mines. Google it and you will see lots of gold mines doing the same thing with hedge funds investing. Essentially you loan the company money and get repaid in product at a better price than market when the loan is due. Not all investments give you equity in a business.

Gold is not a consumer good. It is widely used throughout the world as a monetary exchange and is effectively a form of capital returns. There is a reason currencies have historically often been backed by gold reserves or pegged to a gold standard. In these cases (not frequently used anymore), the actual paper-bill one commonly describes as "money" was worth it because it was guaranteed in gold reserves. Gold is still traded and used as a hedge against currency inflation.

Plastic miniatures, on the other hand, are a classic consumer good. Hence, giving away your money for miniatures is the exact opposite of investment. The former is "consumption", the latter (investment) is "deferred consumption" on the prospect of getting "investment returns" that will increase your future ability to "consume".

If anything, Kickstarters should probably be seen as "negative" or "inverse" investment, since you are "paying" now but only receive your product down the line (say, in half a year). So the "value" you get for the money you spend today on consumer products (e.g. miniatures) that you don't get today is actually smaller by the amount of interest you could have earned by putting the money into an interest-earning account until the product was actually available for purchase right away.

If investments increase your future ability to "consume" (through capital returns), Kickstarters actually decrease your future ability to "consume" by the opportunity costs of forgone interest during the time you wait for your product.

Also, if there's anything you want, ask around or check the swap shop. People will probably offload the stuff they don't need.

Lastly, if you wanted any of the add-ons for cheap, post here. Someone could probably add to their pledge and get you what you want for the KS prices.

Kirika wrote:
Slightly annoyed that I missed out on this. Looks like it was an awesome deal.

You didn't miss out.
There's a post by reaper, that says they'll give everyone change to join or increase their pledges with pledge manager.