Are benign Warp entities theoretically possible?

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**BaronIveagh**

blood reaper wrote:Can anyone name a positive warp entity that isn't utterly evil?

One could make an argument for Saint Sabbat. The Eldar Goddess Isha is a being of compassion, supposedly.

**purplefood**

And yet you are taking the absence of it saying there is definitely not a positive warp entity to mean there could be which is a much further jump than ours which is simply a logical inference.
Dark is used to describe it. If they didn't want to describe it was negative they wouldn't use dark...

**Mynameisalie**

blood reaper wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:*Bangs head on desk*
We actually manage to get back on topic for 3 posts. It's a start. Can we try not to include countries obliterating others and whatnot in this thread? If you really want to discuss that, please do it in the OT forum. No disrespect, but it's where debates like that belong, ok?
FifteenHours, you are correct. We can't involve what we believe in in this discussion and yes, it is very open to individual opinions. However, if this thread does actually manage to tie up a loose end(s) in 40k, then I'm happy.
These benign daemons have to be thought about very carefully. I think we have already determined that a single emotion or concept can be both negative and positive, but most obsessions/desires are primarily negative. Some, such as selflessness, can be regarded as positive.
Anyone else got anything against this? Or anything to add?

Selflessness can easily be for a bad reason, sacrificing ones self for another is quite common in 40k by Chaos Cultists to summon daemons and such, it's not always am heroic action.

True, true. I see your point.

**KalashnikovMarine**

The Hydra? I remember that from the OLD SCHOOL Inquisitor series back when the squats still existed and the fluff consisted of literally whatever that guy was writing. The Hydra was definitely not a good thing, it was human created and resulted in the death of a world or two. It was not an intelligent independent daemon persay. Least as far as I can recall.

**purplefood**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:Can anyone name a positive warp entity that isn't utterly evil?

One could make an argument for Saint Sabbat. The Eldar Goddess Isha is a being of compassion, supposedly.

I'm never entirely sure what the Eldar Gods are... same for saints as well...
Some saints appear to be super charged mortals courtesy of the Big E...
The Eldar Gods seem to be an odd mix of psychic manifestations and mortal entities...

**DeffDred**

Mynameisalie wrote:Implies. There is a heck of a lot of difference between implying something and something being something.
I have checked, and it does not say on Lexicanum, on the 40k wiki, not in the 6th ed rulebook or in the BL that the Warp that contains purely negative emotion. Daemons and the suchalike are created by a God's essence, or form themselves out of emotion. There is nothing against the theory that there is sufficient positive energy to form a benign Warp entity, however, it would be hunted and ultimately devoured by a stronger daemon or a chaos God. If there was a way to protect said benign entities from the stronger, malicious daemons then benign daemons are a real and entirely acceptable possibility.

No offence but people who constantly quote Wiki, Lex and the like anger me.

I've spent years and a fortune actually buying and reading the resorce material.

The only things in the warp that aren't "evil" are species native to the warp...

And they are all completely hostile to anything from the materium.

At best there are neutral entities.

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Where in all of 40k fiction does it say there are possitive entities? Oh that's right, there isn't. That's why this thread has the title it does.

Edited for stupid keyboard...

**Mynameisalie**

purplefood wrote:And yet you are taking the absence of it saying there is definitely not a positive warp entity to mean there could be which is a much further jump than ours which is simply a logical inference.
Dark is used to describe it. If they didn't want to describe it was negative they wouldn't use dark...

You have 4 sources that are in favour of my point. Granted, they do not support totally my theory of benign Warp entities, but they still do uphold it.

**purplefood**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:The Hydra? I remember that from the OLD SCHOOL Inquisitor series back when the squats still existed and the fluff consisted of literally whatever that guy was writing. The Hydra was definitely not a good thing, it was human created and resulted in the death of a world or two. It was not an intelligent independent daemon persay. Least as far as I can recall.

Not all warp entities are daemons which is fairly well known...

**Mynameisalie**

DeffDred wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:Implies. There is a heck of a lot of difference between implying something and something being something.
I have checked, and it does not say on Lexicanum, on the 40k wiki, not in the 6th ed rulebook or in the BL that the Warp that contains purely negative emotion. Daemons and the suchalike are created by a God's essence, or form themselves out of emotion. There is nothing against the theory that there is sufficient positive energy to form a benign Warp entity, however, it would be hunted and ultimately devoured by a stronger daemon or a chaos God. If there was a way to protect said benign entities from the stronger, malicious daemons then benign daemons are a real and entirely acceptable possibility.

No offence but people who constantly quote Wiki, Lex and the like anger me.

I've spent years and a fortune actually buying and reading the resorce material.

The only things in the warp that aren't "evil" are species native to the warp...

And they are all completely hostile to anything from the materium.

At best there are neutral entities.

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Where in all of 40k fiction does it say there are possitive entities? Oh that's right, there isn't. That's why this thread has the title it does.

Edited for stupid keyboard...

I am arguing for the point in the title. These sources are what I use to hold my theories together. I do not have the monney to buy rulebooks or such, but a friend of mine did lend me the 6th ed rulebook. It didn't say there was no positive Warp entities. The Eldar Gods are also proof of my point as well. They are benign. Except maybe Khaine, he was quite bloodthirsty.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:The Hydra? I remember that from the OLD SCHOOL Inquisitor series back when the squats still existed and the fluff consisted of literally whatever that guy was writing. The Hydra was definitely not a good thing, it was human created and resulted in the death of a world or two. It was not an intelligent independent daemon persay. Least as far as I can recall.

Not all warp entities are daemons which is fairly well known...

Exactly. This still means there could be positive Warp entities.

**purplefood**

The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

**Mynameisalie**

Changing the title, just to let you guys know.

**purplefood**

Mynameisalie wrote:

purplefood wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:The Hydra? I remember that from the OLD SCHOOL Inquisitor series back when the squats still existed and the fluff consisted of literally whatever that guy was writing. The Hydra was definitely not a good thing, it was human created and resulted in the death of a world or two. It was not an intelligent independent daemon persay. Least as far as I can recall.

Not all warp entities are daemons which is fairly well known...

Exactly. This still means there could be positive Warp entities.

And yet none have ever been seen or talked about or even slightly mentioned...

**blood reaper**

Indeed, the warp is 40k's version of Hell, but it takes all forms of Religious damnation and shoves them together into what I call mega-hell.

Do you expect anything to positive to come out of a form of hell, pure twisted emotion and the screaming souls of mortals?

**Mynameisalie**

Which still leaves place for them to step up and take at least a side part in the drama that is the 40k universe.

**BaronIveagh**

purplefood wrote:The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

AoK

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:Which still leaves place for them to step up and take at least a side part in the drama that is the 40k universe.

40K should not have a positive.

It is the Grim Darkness, their is no hope for anyone, morality isn't cared for and most current day human being couldn't stand it.

Don't try to add morals or hope to it, because you will ruin it.

**BaronIveagh**

DeffDred wrote:
No offence but people who constantly quote Wiki, Lex and the like anger me.

I've spent years and a fortune actually buying and reading the resorce material.

I'm not gonna touch this one with a ten foot force weapon.

**blood reaper**

BaronIveagh wrote:
purplefood wrote:The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

AoK

They are Khaine shards, not his daemons.

**BaronIveagh**

blood reaper wrote:
It is the Grim Darkness, their is no hope for anyone, morality isn't cared for and most current day Americans couldn't stand it.

fixed

blood reaper wrote:
Don't try to add morals or hope to it, because you will ruin it.

I'll file this one away with 'They changed it, not it's awful'.

**blood reaper**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
It is the Grim Darkness, their is no hope for anyone, morality isn't cared for and most current day Americans couldn't stand it.

fixed

blood reaper wrote:
Don't try to add morals or hope to it, because you will ruin it.

I'll file this one away with 'They changed it, not it's awful'.

Why just Americans?

**purplefood**

You know GW is British right?

**BaronIveagh**

blood reaper wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
purplefood wrote:The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

AoK

They are Khaine shards, not his daemons.

Minor detail, you do know that daemons are shards of their respective chaos powers, right?

**blood reaper**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
purplefood wrote:The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

AoK

They are Khaine shards, not his daemons.

Minor detail, you do know that daemons are shards of their respective chaos powers, right?

Khaine was shattered into small shards, daemons are formed as extensions of a god.

**purplefood**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
BaronIveagh wrote:
purplefood wrote:The Eldar Gods don't have daemons...

AoK

They are Khaine shards, not his daemons.

Minor detail, you do know that daemons are shards of their respective chaos powers, right?

Yeah but the God in question is still alive and the shards are fully individual with their own thoughts.
The shards are actual parts of the god divided rather than a fully separate being...

**BaronIveagh**

blood reaper wrote:
Why just Americans?

I should probably include England and most of Western Europe under that, as well.

Because their reaction is 'Oh my God, people died!" "Oh my god, a nutjob shot up a theater in Colorado! Quick, ban guns!" While everyone else has to deal with 'Oh God, a nutjob has seized power becasue we didn't have guns and is butchering the whole city block by block. Quick, we need guns!"

God, they need a tyrant to seize power just so they can get their heads out of their asses.

**blood reaper**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
Why just Americans?

I should probably include England and most of Western Europe under that, as well.

Because their reaction is 'Oh my God, people died!" "Oh my god, a nutjob shot up a theater in Colorado! Quick, ban guns!" While everyone else has to deal with 'Oh God, a nutjob has seized power and is butchering the whole city block by block. Quick, we need guns!"

God, they need a tyrant to seize power just so they can get their heads out of their asses.

I have several reasons not to respond to that.

**BaronIveagh**

blood reaper wrote:
I have several reasons not to respond to that.

Sorry, as a citizen of a 'domestically dependent sovereign nation', I find the US more then a tad irritating.

**purplefood**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
Why just Americans?

I should probably include England and most of Western Europe under that, as well.

Because their reaction is 'Oh my God, people died!" "Oh my god, a nutjob shot up a theater in Colorado! Quick, ban guns!" While everyone else has to deal with 'Oh God, a nutjob has seized power becasue we didn't have guns and is butchering the whole city block by block. Quick, we need guns!"

God, they need a tyrant to seize power just so they can get their heads out of their asses.

I don't think you have a great cultural understanding of Britain...

**blood reaper**

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
I have several reasons not to respond to that.

Sorry, as a citizen of a 'domestically dependent sovereign nation', I find the US more then a tad irritating.

I apologise, but really?

I know banning guns would not solve the problem completely, but that isn't even the argument here, why does this need to be brought up at all?

So you believe that anyone beyond the west would be mostly fine with 40K's form of morality?

**BaronIveagh**

purplefood wrote:
I don't think you have a great cultural understanding of Britain...

It was mostly directed at the United States.