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It actually says something much to the opposite tune, something I too wasn't aware of, that is relevant to your previous post.
"Page 96- Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to: (...) In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole infantry platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately."
So in addition to sectioning off parts of a platoon being fair game, as "roll once for the whole infantry platoon" does not mean parts of it can't go unaffected if they're already on the board, if you toss a SWS in a Vendetta/Valk, they act completely separate in terms of reserves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/23 21:28:15
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Perhaps moving a few chimeras flat out with SWS with plasma inside will provide a cost effective threat to the enemy. I think in this regard they might be better than vets seeing how when their APC pops their "already dead"
Combine this with stormies in their back field and marbo breathing down their throat. You got yourself one hell of a vanguard, not exactly rock hard but they should give the enemy 2 turns of trouble before their mopped up.
In the meantime move your blobs up and fire your HS platforms.
To keep things cheap i throw some SWS with meltaguns/Demo charges in some Vendettas for objective grabbing and (oh lord im saying again) cinematic suicide drops.
any ideas on that?
Automatically Appended Next Post: The key here is to keep your mech units and your units mounted in your mech as cheap as possible so you can have more points for your foot elements as previously mentioned.
Great ideas so far though!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 00:02:30
You'll have to find a way of getting them into Chimera's. They don't have transport options, so you'll have to buy them on other things, but those other things have to deploy inside them due to dedicated transport rules.
Blaggard wrote: You'll have to find a way of getting them into Chimera's. They don't have transport options, so you'll have to buy them on other things, but those other things have to deploy inside them due to dedicated transport rules.
I always overlook the dedicated transport option..... darn it all sounded so good..
I think if your not adverse to taking allies you can use Coteaz and 2 squads of henchman with crusaders/assassins.
They make for some scary units that people will prioritise shooting over your foot sloggers, having the crusaders gives them hopefully enough survivability to get into combat.
Blaggard wrote: You'll have to find a way of getting them into Chimera's. They don't have transport options, so you'll have to buy them on other things, but those other things have to deploy inside them due to dedicated transport rules.
I always overlook the dedicated transport option..... darn it all sounded so good..
I know that feeling. I thought about shoving loads of Plasma SPS in chugs, more target saturation than Vets in chugs and for the same price a higher chance of hurting stuff (loser BS offset by more guns).
Edit: What the hell happened to the quotes?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 00:26:17
Other than using my BA to augment my Guard I will be running the following list or approximately:
CCS: LC, PG, standard
CCS: LC, PG, standard
PCS: 4 x flamer
IS: PG, LC IS: PG, LC IS: PG, LC IS: PG, LC IS: PG, LC
HWT: AC x 2
HWT: Mortar
Vets: Harker, Chimera 3 x MG Vets: Chimera 3 x MG
Demolisher: LC LRBT: H-bolter sponsons, H Stubber
LRBT, LC
Then I will either round the list out with scout sentinals, special weapon flamer squads, Ogryns, Marbo or Stormtroopers depending on need.
I too have been wondering and reading all your posts and trying to soak up all the info I can. I think the key (like many people have already said) is target saturation. I can provide 10 + scoring units for you to deal with, 3 battle tanks, and sentinels and veterans showing up in your rear. I think the formula we need to figure out, is: How many bodies do we need to throw at each objective to weather damage and hold the point, while still being able to whittle away the opponents force. In my list above every infantry unit has a LC and a PG and the CCS do also, so thats 7 sqauds with the ability to cause some good damage. Then I have AC heavy weapons teams... you want to shoot them over the LC/PG squads, be my guest. The mortor team will ALWAYS be out of LOS throwing rounds on things that scare me... scarabs, pathfinders, orks. They are more of an annoyance unit that you will have to put up with all game but probably be unable to effect. Then I have 3 LRBT hulls... lots of dakka to take them out. They will have infantry units close by or wrapped around. The Vets in the chimera's are really what I am banking on to take objectives end game. I will plan on moving the foot squads up, but only when I think they have a shot at crossing open ground without getting tore up. Again though, with so many scoring units I am betting on being able to move aggressivly turns 3+ with them, after I have had 2 turns of decent shooting.
I know I will loose units, I am just planning on haveing enough units left over to still win.
What do you guys think ?
Edit - A side thought about allies.
I have had evil thoughts about a BA Terminator SS librarian with Shield of Sangiunius(5+ cover save to all units within 6 inches) leading a blob squad. I also believe that Guard mixed with BADOA jump list would be a great combination.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 01:45:43
Blaggard wrote: You'll have to find a way of getting them into Chimera's. They don't have transport options, so you'll have to buy them on other things, but those other things have to deploy inside them due to dedicated transport rules.
Things dont have to start embarked on dedicated transports. Just deploy the empty chimeras in front of your SWS, then embark and drive in turn 1.
So, some food for thought here, since I've not noticed anyone bring this up.
But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example. It allows you to pretty much drop heavy weapons teams entirely, and if you ran, say 2 or 3 demolishers with artillery and infantry support, you could seriously threaten a gunline with it. It'd also allow you to take more CCS (orders and guns), HQ's we dont see as much like lord commissars and primaris pyskers, and allow you to take more stormtroopers to really screw with the enemy. 1 10 man flamer squad and 3 5 man melta teams would be devestating to almost any list for example.
Is this something we're missing that might make a difference? Almost everyone takes two CCS's anyways, and troop slots are easy to fill with cheap units, so it's not like the extra foc requirements hurt us in any way. I've already been trying foot vets as a better SWS to decent results, so it wouldnt bother me in the slightest.
This does require people to accept dual force org at 2k though, whic sadly doesnt seem likely anytime soon.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote:But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example.
In a way, it kind of doesn't matter what the rest of your list is. Anti-infantry of all kinds is managed by the 42 BS4 hellgun shots (plus all the fancy specials) on the drop, and vehicles are handles by plasma, melta, and thrown kraks. In return, the survivors have to deal with carapace armor, and if they charge, they have to deal with Ap3 (or better, plus flamers) overwatch. Of course, all of this is in their deployment zone, so while they're desperately trying to fend off 60 angry, angry hornets, the rest of your army can do... well... whatever it wants. You basically have the board mid-game.
The only thing I could possibly think of more ridiculous than this is a 2750 point list with 60 ogryn...
Actually, wait, maybe you're right. 1200 points DOES get you 6 bolter boat punishers. Why yes, I WOULD like 174 S5 attacks per turn, thank you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 07:24:32
MrMoustaffa wrote:But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example.
In a way, it kind of doesn't matter what the rest of your list is. Anti-infantry of all kinds is managed by the 42 BS4 hellgun shots (plus all the fancy specials) on the drop, and vehicles are handles by plasma, melta, and thrown kraks. In return, the survivors have to deal with carapace armor, and if they charge, they have to deal with Ap3 (or better, plus flamers) overwatch. Of course, all of this is in their deployment zone, so while they're desperately trying to fend off 60 angry, angry hornets, the rest of your army can do... well... whatever it wants. You basically have the board mid-game.
The only thing I could possibly think of more ridiculous than this is a 2750 point list with 60 ogryn...
Actually, wait, maybe you're right. 1200 points DOES get you 6 bolter boat punishers. Why yes, I WOULD like 174 S5 attacks per turn, thank you.
All hail Ailaros! King of cheese!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:30:06
Testify wrote: Dual FOC is part of the core rules. Dissallowing it is an intentional nerf to many armies, essentially halving their number of options.
You may as well disallow heavy support, or psykers.
Yeah, but given how most metas are determined by what the tournaments allow, and almost every tourney player I know had an aneurism at the mere thought of Dual FOC, I'm kind of worried it'll end up like forgeworld, aka "sure, it's legal, it's just that nobody will play you"
Ailaros brings up a good point with all those stormtroopers. You pretty much have half your army deepstriking in to cause pain and misery, and very few things will survive all those shots when they pop up. If you're clever and get a few near each other for support, they might be able to form up into fireteams and sweep areas of the table. The question would be then, how does one support 60 stormtroopers deepstriking into the enemy. Obviously, you're either going russes (for durability) artillery (for range) or fliers/hellhound variants for mobility. Then, what does one do about the infantry you'll need? While it's not a ton of points available right there, if you toned the stormies back a BIT (no offense) you could have plenty of bodies and firepower to survive any turn 1 alpha strike and maybe even dish out some hurt of your own. You're probably either going to be going carapace vets or mass PIS if you're wanting a foot list, if you're going hybrid or mech you'll probably do the same old same old with keeping your chimeras on the defensive.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Yeah, but given how most metas are determined by what the tournaments allow, and almost every tourney player I know had an aneurism at the mere thought of Dual FOC, I'm kind of worried it'll end up like forgeworld, aka "sure, it's legal, it's just that nobody will play you"
You know you're a tournament player when you refuse to play by one of the basic tenets of the rules, yet still make your army as OP and cheesy as possible
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
MrMoustaffa wrote:But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example.
In a way, it kind of doesn't matter what the rest of your list is. Anti-infantry of all kinds is managed by the 42 BS4 hellgun shots (plus all the fancy specials) on the drop, and vehicles are handles by plasma, melta, and thrown kraks. In return, the survivors have to deal with carapace armor, and if they charge, they have to deal with Ap3 (or better, plus flamers) overwatch. Of course, all of this is in their deployment zone, so while they're desperately trying to fend off 60 angry, angry hornets, the rest of your army can do... well... whatever it wants. You basically have the board mid-game.
The only thing I could possibly think of more ridiculous than this is a 2750 point list with 60 ogryn...
Actually, wait, maybe you're right. 1200 points DOES get you 6 bolter boat punishers. Why yes, I WOULD like 174 S5 attacks per turn, thank you.
All hail Ailaros! King of cheese!
We all saw the day Ailaros discovered the Dark side of gaming.
The cheesy, WAAC'y TFG side.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
MrMoustaffa wrote:But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example.
You know against 90% of dakka they will die as quickly as PIS right?
Just because stormies are useful in small numbers doesn't mean you can scale that up. A single heavy flamer could wipe out any of those on the turn they deepstriked, and would do it pretty reliably too.
No to mention the lack of any mobility whatsoever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 15:52:28
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
MrMoustaffa wrote:But if the dual FoC for 2,000pts ever becomes accepted, it could be the shot in the arm that IG needs to really apply concentrated killing power and push up the field. 6 heavy slots could get you 4 independent leman russ hulls, and 2 manticores for example.
You know against 90% of dakka they will die as quickly as PIS right?
Just because stormies are useful in small numbers doesn't mean you can scale that up. A single heavy flamer could wipe out any of those on the turn they deepstriked, and would do it pretty reliably too.
No to mention the lack of any mobility whatsoever.
Well with some solid vehicle support he can just plan on tabling the opponent turn 2!
THE ULTIMATE SIXTH EDITION ALPHA STRIKE
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 16:08:13
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
But...but then you won't have enough points for 12 Valkyries and 6 Vendettas. How will you win games without 18 flyers?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 16:13:06
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
Yeah at that point, you just walk your infantry up behind the tanks to help scrape the goo of the enemy off the tank treads.
I'd love doing that with some rediculous 50 man blob led by Yarrick and maybe a couple smaller ones led with lord commissars. Would it win very often? Hell no. Would it be hilarious to watch in action? You better believe it.
Plus that look on your opponent's face when he realizes he's facing an assault IG army is always priceless
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
But...but then you won't have enough points for 12 Valkyries and 6 Vendettas. How will you win games without 18 flyers?
2 veteran squads, 140 points. CCS 50 points.
So you can still get 5 Vendettas at 2000 points.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
But...but then you won't have enough points for 12 Valkyries and 6 Vendettas. How will you win games without 18 flyers?
2 veteran squads, 140 points. CCS 50 points.
So you can still get 5 Vendettas at 2000 points.
And now we know why nobody wants to play against IG with dual Force Org
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
Yeah at that point, you just walk your infantry up behind the tanks to help scrape the goo of the enemy off the tank treads.
I'd love doing that with some rediculous 50 man blob led by Yarrick and maybe a couple smaller ones led with lord commissars. Would it win very often? Hell no. Would it be hilarious to watch in action? You better believe it.
Plus that look on your opponent's face when he realizes he's facing an assault IG army is always priceless
Strategy - coat the Demolishers in the blobs and roll forward baby. Would probably be pretty effective actually, though the veteran squads are dead weight. Could possibly make some of the Demolishers normal Leman Russes and give the vets plasmas.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off six Russes at all. Though I wouldn't go with Punishers. 6 Demolishers with HB/Sponsons would be fething sweeeeet. 1110 points, so plenty of room for troops.
Yeah at that point, you just walk your infantry up behind the tanks to help scrape the goo of the enemy off the tank treads.
I'd love doing that with some rediculous 50 man blob led by Yarrick and maybe a couple smaller ones led with lord commissars. Would it win very often? Hell no. Would it be hilarious to watch in action? You better believe it.
Plus that look on your opponent's face when he realizes he's facing an assault IG army is always priceless
Strategy - coat the Demolishers in the blobs and roll forward baby. Would probably be pretty effective actually, though the veteran squads are dead weight. Could possibly make some of the Demolishers normal Leman Russes and give the vets plasmas.
Hey Ailaros, we fixed your blobs bro.
To add to that, I'd find some points to drop somewhere, and arm all the infantry squads with power mauls or axes. Then you've got an obscene amount of attacks with some good strength on them. I'd also add some sort of long range threat, like manticores. You only really need 1 or 2, and that'd be more than enough to soften the enemy up by the time your main force arrives. Plus, it's gonna be kind of hard to see a manticore behind 4 demolishers and about a hundred guardsmen
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
The problem with Manticores is that it means fewer Russes. If you wanted to be cheesy you could just take 6 manticores and hundreds of infantrymen to guard them.
Having 6 AV14s on the table is very scary for most players, and with all those infantrymen meltaguns are impossible. And I know from experience what happens when you try to kill Russes with lascannons, i.e. not much.
Unless your enemy had a lot of lances (and really, who plays eldar? ), I'd guess that 5 out of those 6 Russes would be alive by the turn 4. Might get a bit different turn 5/6 once all those infantrymen are dead but who cares
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote: The problem with Manticores is that it means fewer Russes. If you wanted to be cheesy you could just take 6 manticores and hundreds of infantrymen to guard them.
Having 6 AV14s on the table is very scary for most players, and with all those infantrymen meltaguns are impossible. And I know from experience what happens when you try to kill Russes with lascannons, i.e. not much.
Unless your enemy had a lot of lances (and really, who plays eldar? ), I'd guess that 5 out of those 6 Russes would be alive by the turn 4. Might get a bit different turn 5/6 once all those infantrymen are dead but who cares
Yeah I have to admit I'm really liking this idea too. Just one last question though.
How do you plan on dealing with fliers? Because while most won't scare this list, a couple of vendettas behind your tank line could really ruin your day...
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
How do you plan on dealing with fliers? Because while most won't scare this list, a couple of vendettas behind your tank line could really ruin your day...
That.
One valkyrie could beat your whole army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 17:09:11
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
About 3000 
