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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 07:10:36
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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because they are fearless and have access to special weapons?
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 07:21:59
Subject: Re:CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yes they did, it was called daemonic rune.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 07:22:26
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Powerful Ushbati
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lmao 74 usd for heldrake. Wont be fielding those for a while.
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TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 07:44:38
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
somewhere in the northern side of the beachball
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Canadian 5th wrote:
If you're not skilled enough to get that AP3 template over something that isn't AP2 that sounds like your issue, not the games.
I have a trukk spam list that has 1 2+ armor save boss. He and his unit is pretty much immortal. My opponent only needs to have his juicy unit protected by a cheap hq.
Regardless what I've said a single ap 3 heavy flamer isn't worth 100+ points (unit cost+siren cost).
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Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 07:48:43
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Mimetic Bagh-Mari
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Hey man thanks for posting this review…
While some say “Should be here - should be there…its and Opinion blablabla” it does contain your ideas /opinions for certain units and best builds and that Validates it being in tactics not general.
A lot of people wouldn’t have taken time to do that so thanks Sephyr it gave me some insight before buying the Codex…
Let me ask… can Chosen upgrade to combi bolters? Not the twin bolters but melta-flamer-plasma- combis unit wide? They can be marked right?
Is there an Ammo upgrade for chosen?...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 08:35:52
Subject: Re:CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
HIDING IN THE METAL BAWKSES!!
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Yea, well, didnt come with it and nobody took it cause it was insanely expensive anyway (There wasnt as many things that can ID the DP, and some force weapons make you lose the remaining wounds instead of instant death you). And it wasnt called Eternal Warrior back then.
Aw, the nostalgia!
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/07 08:41:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 11:04:03
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Hashulaman wrote:I'm having trouble deciding if I want Hades cannons, All ectoplasm cannons, or the mix for my Forgefiend. Same situation for my Helldrake. I don't know if I want the Baleflamer or Hades. I know it's early, but opinions would be appreciated.
I think baleflamer is the only choice for the drake. S6 Ap3 flamer with soul blaze & torrent attached to a flyer is going to be very effective for getting rid of long fangs/lootas/other backfield campers, you're wounding most infantry on a 2+ & denying everything except TEQ a save. AND you can shoot it in the same turn you do a meteoric strike, and you can do it to a seperate target from the meteoric strike.
The autocannon seems like an ideal anti flyer thing, but it only gets 4 shots. Seems a bit of a risk relying on that to take out a flyer. The meteoric strike is S7, but unfortunately you're hitting a vehicles side armour, so valks/vendettas & stormravens have nothing to fear.
I think the Heldrake is actually less suited to being a dedicated anti flyer unit & more for swooping past & popping transports, before flaming backfield units. Id use havocs with flakk missiles as anti air.
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 11:13:11
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Irked Necron Immortal
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lmao 74 usd for heldrake. Wont be fielding those for a while.
*gasp!* That's almost Australian pricing! Joooooooooin ussssssss....
In all seriousness though...I have no tactics to suggest or opinions to voice, except to say that Havocs seem to be really cheap way of getting a bunch of plasma gun armed lunatics on the field, an easier method than using Chosen anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 11:14:23
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Because the Khorne Demon Weapon (Axe of Blind Fury) confers the Rage special rule?
The Axe of Blind Fury can only be taken by models with the Mark of khorne. The Daemon prince cannot take Mark of Khorne.
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 11:47:02
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Sister Oh-So Repentia
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Some of my thoughts on the new CSM codex:
Its seems to me that all of the Chaos subfactions got some love,
-All 4 cults can have a choice of character or generic HQ with cult troops
-Word Bearers got a Dark apostle, I sort of wish they had a character and the DA was made an elite(like a Sang Preist) for them. And that DA cultists could ritual up to tervigon in daemons per turn.
-Alpha Legion, Also glad they get cultist love... I think they can obey fluff very well in thsi codex
-Black Legion, Abbadon making Chosen troops just screams versatility... no doubts this will be a interesting list.
-Red Corsairs. Huron got better... also clearly an option with the better infiltrating troops options.
This is where it kinda falls apart
-Iron Warriors... don't get me wrong, I like the warp smith... but the daemon engines do not scream iron warriors to me. Thankfully traitor IG is there to fill in the gaps for the seige addicted. Personally I dont think that IW have to big of a hurdle to cross.
-Night lords... This is my personal gripe with the whole codex; No night vision, no stealth, no characters, no FOC manipulation with fast attack options... what would I give to see a Warp Talon/Chaos bike HQ, that unlocks bike squads and basic raptors as troops, thus leaving the FA slots open for a heldrake and a pair of warp talon squads. heck I would even give up elite or heavy slots to have a change like this.
anywho just my 2cents
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/07 11:48:58
& both sold in 4th ed
2000 painted, WTB Nightlords character & FOC jank kthx
5000 playable/paint 85% done
STC explorator force in production
Elysians planned, awaiting Raging Heroes Kickstarter goodies
preplanning, almost backburnered |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 13:26:52
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Commoragh-bound Peer
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edweird wrote:Some of my thoughts on the new CSM codex:
Its seems to me that all of the Chaos subfactions got some love,
-All 4 cults can have a choice of character or generic HQ with cult troops
-Word Bearers got a Dark apostle, I sort of wish they had a character and the DA was made an elite(like a Sang Preist) for them. And that DA cultists could ritual up to tervigon in daemons per turn.
-Alpha Legion, Also glad they get cultist love... I think they can obey fluff very well in thsi codex
-Black Legion, Abbadon making Chosen troops just screams versatility... no doubts this will be a interesting list.
-Red Corsairs. Huron got better... also clearly an option with the better infiltrating troops options.
This is where it kinda falls apart
-Iron Warriors... don't get me wrong, I like the warp smith... but the daemon engines do not scream iron warriors to me. Thankfully traitor IG is there to fill in the gaps for the seige addicted. Personally I dont think that IW have to big of a hurdle to cross.
-Night lords... This is my personal gripe with the whole codex; No night vision, no stealth, no characters, no FOC manipulation with fast attack options... what would I give to see a Warp Talon/Chaos bike HQ, that unlocks bike squads and basic raptors as troops, thus leaving the FA slots open for a heldrake and a pair of warp talon squads. heck I would even give up elite or heavy slots to have a change like this.
anywho just my 2cents
This basically, IMO It would have been cool to have a night lord or an alpha legion hq..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 14:06:04
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Legendary Dogfighter
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Tunach wrote: edweird wrote:Some of my thoughts on the new CSM codex:
IThis is where it kinda falls apart
-Iron Warriors... don't get me wrong, I like the warp smith... but the daemon engines do not scream iron warriors to me. Thankfully traitor IG is there to fill in the gaps for the seige addicted. Personally I dont think that IW have to big of a hurdle to cross.
-Night lords... This is my personal gripe with the whole codex; No night vision, no stealth, no characters, no FOC manipulation with fast attack options... what would I give to see a Warp Talon/Chaos bike HQ, that unlocks bike squads and basic raptors as troops, thus leaving the FA slots open for a heldrake and a pair of warp talon squads. heck I would even give up elite or heavy slots to have a change like this.
anywho just my 2cents
This basically, IMO It would have been cool to have a night lord or an alpha legion hq..
Again this.......I am annoyed that something like this did not appear - wasted opportunity as far as I am concerned.
Also - I like the chosen options - but I hate abbadon and therefore another wasted opportunity for what could have been a worthwhile list build - havocs / chosen / sorcerer / warpsmith - the fact I have to take that turd in terminator armour makes me think meh
Oh well, we should have a new CSM codex by 2016 lets hope it can only get better
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/07 14:07:34
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 14:15:41
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Regular Dakkanaut
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
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The Cdn retail price of the Heldrake is more expensive than buying the Hell Talon from Forgeworld which is ridiculous.
My biggest issue with the codex is GW charging $60 for it and giving the legions less than a 1/4 page of fluff each. I think that's a crime. Throwing another 10 pages of fluff/pictures wouldn't have made much difference to their bottom line.
Rules wise I am pretty happy with the book. Looks like the Nurgle folks should probably be the happiest, marked Obliterators and bikes is fun, plus Typhus and his zombies hordes is pretty awesome.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 14:25:54
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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somecallmeJack wrote:Hashulaman wrote:I'm having trouble deciding if I want Hades cannons, All ectoplasm cannons, or the mix for my Forgefiend. Same situation for my Helldrake. I don't know if I want the Baleflamer or Hades. I know it's early, but opinions would be appreciated.
I think baleflamer is the only choice for the drake. S6 Ap3 flamer with soul blaze & torrent attached to a flyer is going to be very effective for getting rid of long fangs/lootas/other backfield campers, you're wounding most infantry on a 2+ & denying everything except TEQ a save. AND you can shoot it in the same turn you do a meteoric strike, and you can do it to a seperate target from the meteoric strike.
The autocannon seems like an ideal anti flyer thing, but it only gets 4 shots. Seems a bit of a risk relying on that to take out a flyer. The meteoric strike is S7, but unfortunately you're hitting a vehicles side armour, so valks/vendettas & stormravens have nothing to fear.
I think the Heldrake is actually less suited to being a dedicated anti flyer unit & more for swooping past & popping transports, before flaming backfield units. Id use havocs with flakk missiles as anti air.
It is nice any infantry but for its cost it really isnt that impressive.
Havocs with flakk arent going to take down vendettas or storm ravens either as again str 7 is kinda low for av12
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 15:06:03
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Because:
a. They can't snipe the icon and nerf your fearless
b. You are not wasting your icon slot so can take something else.
c. Convenience Automatically Appended Next Post: 5deadly wrote:Hey man thanks for posting this review…
While some say “Should be here - should be there…its and Opinion blablabla” it does contain your ideas /opinions for certain units and best builds and that Validates it being in tactics not general.
A lot of people wouldn’t have taken time to do that so thanks Sephyr it gave me some insight before buying the Codex…
Let me ask… can Chosen upgrade to combi bolters? Not the twin bolters but melta-flamer-plasma- combis unit wide? They can be marked right?
Is there an Ammo upgrade for chosen?...
No, they are not stern guard. Automatically Appended Next Post: Exergy wrote: somecallmeJack wrote:Hashulaman wrote:I'm having trouble deciding if I want Hades cannons, All ectoplasm cannons, or the mix for my Forgefiend. Same situation for my Helldrake. I don't know if I want the Baleflamer or Hades. I know it's early, but opinions would be appreciated.
I think baleflamer is the only choice for the drake. S6 Ap3 flamer with soul blaze & torrent attached to a flyer is going to be very effective for getting rid of long fangs/lootas/other backfield campers, you're wounding most infantry on a 2+ & denying everything except TEQ a save. AND you can shoot it in the same turn you do a meteoric strike, and you can do it to a seperate target from the meteoric strike.
The autocannon seems like an ideal anti flyer thing, but it only gets 4 shots. Seems a bit of a risk relying on that to take out a flyer. The meteoric strike is S7, but unfortunately you're hitting a vehicles side armour, so valks/vendettas & stormravens have nothing to fear.
I think the Heldrake is actually less suited to being a dedicated anti flyer unit & more for swooping past & popping transports, before flaming backfield units. Id use havocs with flakk missiles as anti air.
It is nice any infantry but for its cost it really isnt that impressive.
Havocs with flakk arent going to take down vendettas or storm ravens either as again str 7 is kinda low for av12
Exactly, 25 points per missile launcher and they are only S7 and lack intercept so they are garbage IMO. I am just going to field the dirt cheap 4 autocanon unit I have been. 115 for 8 S7 shots as apposed to 175!!! I have run the scenarios against AV11 already, 3 five man flakk squads is 525, 3 night scythes WITH their 5 man warrior units clocks in at 495!!! They enter play and kill half the havocs and lose nothing in return, it's pathetic. Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone else noticed the glaring inconsistencies in this book also. WHY THE FETH are lightning claws +30 points for chosen!! that's literally insanity. They were 20 a pair before, now you pay the cost of a terminator just for claws! We gained a buff in bikes and spawns which I love but I am finding horrible issues with almost every other infantry category. A missile launcher with flakk rounds is +25!!! The enormous nerf to demon weapons!!! Can someone explain to me how lucious is 5 more points then Kharne lmao... Lucious still sucks, he gets better when he fights things he is destined to lose to and runs the risk of losing challenges where he should be guaranteed victory.
I don't want to appear overly negative, I just don't understand why it is so hard for Phil Kelley to write a book with pounds of internal imbalance from unit to unit. Seriously just look at the cost of certain items from unit to unit, it's laughably silly.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/07 15:23:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 18:17:12
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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If units have different capabilities shouldn't things cost a different amount?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 18:58:52
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Leth wrote:If units have different capabilities shouldn't things cost a different amount?
Obviously, which was not my point. The cost increase should be built into the model based on his capabilities, not his gear. You can't seriously tell me +30 points is a reasonable adjustment when warp talons cost that and come with a jump pack, demon, blind, those same claws lol. Hmmm. let me think, claws or a terminator? Claws, or a chaos spawn? Claws or 3 melta guns in the same unit!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:04:35
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Red Corsair wrote:
Because:
a. They can't snipe the icon and nerf your fearless
b. You are not wasting your icon slot so can take something else.
c. Convenience
Noise cannot take regular special weapons or heavies. Sometimes you want a meltagun, not a blastmaster.
Still I think noise marines are good, better than they have been in a while.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Red Corsair wrote:
Exergy wrote: somecallmeJack wrote:Hashulaman wrote:I'm having trouble deciding if I want Hades cannons, All ectoplasm cannons, or the mix for my Forgefiend. Same situation for my Helldrake. I don't know if I want the Baleflamer or Hades. I know it's early, but opinions would be appreciated.
I think baleflamer is the only choice for the drake. S6 Ap3 flamer with soul blaze & torrent attached to a flyer is going to be very effective for getting rid of long fangs/lootas/other backfield campers, you're wounding most infantry on a 2+ & denying everything except TEQ a save. AND you can shoot it in the same turn you do a meteoric strike, and you can do it to a seperate target from the meteoric strike.
The autocannon seems like an ideal anti flyer thing, but it only gets 4 shots. Seems a bit of a risk relying on that to take out a flyer. The meteoric strike is S7, but unfortunately you're hitting a vehicles side armour, so valks/vendettas & stormravens have nothing to fear.
I think the Heldrake is actually less suited to being a dedicated anti flyer unit & more for swooping past & popping transports, before flaming backfield units. Id use havocs with flakk missiles as anti air.
It is nice any infantry but for its cost it really isnt that impressive.
Havocs with flakk arent going to take down vendettas or storm ravens either as again str 7 is kinda low for av12
Exactly, 25 points per missile launcher and they are only S7 and lack intercept so they are garbage IMO. I am just going to field the dirt cheap 4 autocanon unit I have been. 115 for 8 S7 shots as apposed to 175!!! I have run the scenarios against AV11 already, 3 five man flakk squads is 525, 3 night scythes WITH their 5 man warrior units clocks in at 495!!! They enter play and kill half the havocs and lose nothing in return, it's pathetic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone else noticed the glaring inconsistencies in this book also. WHY THE FETH are lightning claws +30 points for chosen!! that's literally insanity. They were 20 a pair before, now you pay the cost of a terminator just for claws! We gained a buff in bikes and spawns which I love but I am finding horrible issues with almost every other infantry category. A missile launcher with flakk rounds is +25!!! The enormous nerf to demon weapons!!! Can someone explain to me how lucious is 5 more points then Kharne lmao... Lucious still sucks, he gets better when he fights things he is destined to lose to and runs the risk of losing challenges where he should be guaranteed victory.
I don't want to appear overly negative, I just don't understand why it is so hard for Phil Kelley to write a book with pounds of internal imbalance from unit to unit. Seriously just look at the cost of certain items from unit to unit, it's laughably silly.
yeah, autocannon havocs are awesome, flakk is useless.
I am very sad that phil kelly wrote this book. my other army is DE and it also has the same problems
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/07 19:09:37
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:16:42
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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5deadly wrote:Hey man thanks for posting this review…
While some say “Should be here - should be there…its and Opinion blablabla” it does contain your ideas /opinions for certain units and best builds and that Validates it being in tactics not general.
Thanks a lot for the feedback. It does mean a fair bit. And as for what people say, of course it's opinion. Almost every statement in the world barring mathematics is an opinion.
There's a world of difference between INFORMED opinion and just blabbing, though, and I tried to offer some insight. Despite the usual choris of "you guys are such whiners, you wanted an OP codex!", I pointed out several units and rules thatI felt were good and powerful. I also missed a lot, of course: I only just now realized Oblits are no longer fearless.
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In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.
In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:16:47
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Red Corsair wrote: Leth wrote:If units have different capabilities shouldn't things cost a different amount?
Obviously, which was not my point. The cost increase should be built into the model based on his capabilities, not his gear. You can't seriously tell me +30 points is a reasonable adjustment when warp talons cost that and come with a jump pack, demon, blind, those same claws lol. Hmmm. let me think, claws or a terminator? Claws, or a chaos spawn? Claws or 3 melta guns in the same unit!!!
he did the same thing with DE. Scouges and DE warriors pay the same 25 points for a dark lance even though the scourge is replacing a splinter carbine?
wrack upgrade sergeants losing attacks when they take weapons.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:23:39
Subject: Re:CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Holy Daemon Princes seem questionable now.
My new Daemon Prince is my allied Lord of Change. For the same price I get a lot more weapons, toughness 6, eternal warrior and a 3+ invulnerable save. Yeah a bit worse in close combat, not like I want to land and get instant death'd.
I don't see anything particularly wrong with the Tzeentch powers. Breath of Chaos should be one warp charge but oh well. Firestorm isn't great but the other three powers are fine. Nothing wrong with getting a bunch of chaos boon rolls, especially on something expensive like Ahriman, gives you something permanent to cast while you're out of range for other powers.
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Change and change until Change is our master, for nothing neither God nor mortal can hold that which has no form. Change is the constant that cannot be changed.
No game of chess can be won without pawns, and this may prove to be a very long game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnIFn-iROE |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:45:17
Subject: Re:CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just put together a Quartermaster template so had to look pretty closely at the units. I do like the customisability [unit champions/lords etc. can pretty much take whatever weapon loadout they want]. Have to say I agree that there are quite a lot of 'strange' options.
For example the dimensional key that stops deep strikers scattering. This only becomes active after killing an enemy model in CC. You're going to do really well to get into CC by turn 2, probably more likely by turn 3. That means by turn 4 your deep strikers won't be scattering. Oh wait they've arrived already? With only needing to roll a 3 I haven't had reserves arriving after turn 3 in any game of 6th I've played.
Helldrake is a strange one too. All the artwork seems to show it taking out flyers but with only a str 7 vector strike it's got less than a 50/50 chance of getting a pen on av11 and 1 in 6 on av12. The flamer sounds useful but that makes it pretty useless against vehicles and all that for 170 points. For 175 points I get a voidraven bomber for my dark eldar with 2 void lances, void mine and 2 implosion missiles.
Still can't get over sonic blasters becoming salvo and the price of daemon princes, leaves my noise marine army with no viable CC options [unless I want to take allies].
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:00:15
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Exergy wrote: Red Corsair wrote: Leth wrote:If units have different capabilities shouldn't things cost a different amount?
Obviously, which was not my point. The cost increase should be built into the model based on his capabilities, not his gear. You can't seriously tell me +30 points is a reasonable adjustment when warp talons cost that and come with a jump pack, demon, blind, those same claws lol. Hmmm. let me think, claws or a terminator? Claws, or a chaos spawn? Claws or 3 melta guns in the same unit!!!
he did the same thing with DE. Scouges and DE warriors pay the same 25 points for a dark lance even though the scourge is replacing a splinter carbine?
wrack upgrade sergeants losing attacks when they take weapons.
I guess he equates KB to blood claws, because that's literally what they are now, over priced blood claws.
I think the book is fine if you play death guard or EC. I seriously am contemplating using SW or BA for my Berzerker army now though. If I were a T-son player I would use GK like many others. It's just insane to me how he still struggles to find internal balance in his books. I am going to assume it's mostly the accountants at this point, it has to be. Mauler fiend 125 to a defilers 195! Big surprise it is a brand new overpriced kit. Chaos bikers are 20 to a raptors 17, I mean seriously a KB is almost as much as a bike now!!!! I love the drop in spawns too, possibly their least sold item ever. Can they make it more obvious they are pushing items that are new or haven't sold in the past? EVERYONE has demon princes, what better way to kill them off then to make markless DP impossible, sorry "pretend markless", because even cult armies can't field a DP to unlock their units lol. Now you will use the demon book for them right? Oh look you need to purchase those new demon kits. I mean, I understand they are company whos aim is to turn a profit, but they could still find some internal balance and turn a profit. I admit I own a lot o chaos stuff, some would say too much, but had they not bent most of my favorite units over the granite countertop and delivered some backdoor injustice I would have been more excited, heck I was going to start a Typhus army and an EC army, which as I said were largely unaffected but now I have such a bad taste in my mouth from my other units that I may just finish my DE/ IG remodel...
End rant...
Side note: I think I have gained the most joy from new chaos followers who are pleased with the release, so to those who are genuinely happy I thank and applaud you. I know I sound negative, but when you painstakingly have modeled and painted a khorne berzerker army that already sucked just to watch it get fragged some more it is hard not to be disappointed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:22:36
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Powerful Ushbati
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Models can take items from the special wargear artefacts etc... it doesnt list point values for these items? So is it free to deck out are lord and sorc's? Confused atm.
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TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:28:23
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Turn a page back to the armory.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:38:01
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Not be joining the fray but a bare demon prince with wings is not that exspensive.
Also, while warp tallons are expensive they do have 2 lightning claws, jump pack and 5+ invonerable save. Just do not rule them out before you try them. It is hard to look at the rules and then predict gameplay. Perhaps you can hide them behind you rhino wall? It seems like people are leaning towars death guard anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:45:28
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Niiai wrote:Not be joining the fray but a bare demon prince with wings is not that exspensive.
Also, while warp tallons are expensive they do have 2 lightning claws, jump pack and 5+ invonerable save. Just do not rule them out before you try them. It is hard to look at the rules and then predict gameplay. Perhaps you can hide them behind you rhino wall? It seems like people are leaning towars death guard anyway.
A bare demon prince with wings is insanely expensive and adds nothing to your offense unless he lands, at which time he dies lol.
Death guard is all I ever saw before. With Typhus getting even better I really don't see how this is going to change.
Warp talons are expensive but apparently miles ahead of chosen with lightning claws. With old icons these guys would have been considered, but I can't see the point in paying for their blind attack as it would never risk such a non disposable unit that way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:50:17
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Red Corsair wrote: Niiai wrote:Not be joining the fray but a bare demon prince with wings is not that exspensive.
Also, while warp tallons are expensive they do have 2 lightning claws, jump pack and 5+ invonerable save. Just do not rule them out before you try them. It is hard to look at the rules and then predict gameplay. Perhaps you can hide them behind you rhino wall? It seems like people are leaning towars death guard anyway.
Warp talons are expensive but apparently miles ahead of chosen with lightning claws. With old icons these guys would have been considered, but I can't see the point in paying for their blind attack as it would never risk such a non disposable unit that way.
skyshield landing pad for counter assault goodness?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/07 20:51:13
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 21:00:18
Subject: CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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Exergy wrote:
Red Corsair wrote: Niiai wrote:Not be joining the fray but a bare demon prince with wings is not that exspensive.
Also, while warp tallons are expensive they do have 2 lightning claws, jump pack and 5+ invonerable save. Just do not rule them out before you try them. It is hard to look at the rules and then predict gameplay. Perhaps you can hide them behind you rhino wall? It seems like people are leaning towars death guard anyway.
Warp talons are expensive but apparently miles ahead of chosen with lightning claws. With old icons these guys would have been considered, but I can't see the point in paying for their blind attack as it would never risk such a non disposable unit that way.
skyshield landing pad for counter assault goodness?
Ha ha, add to the cost of the combo and pray you play a dumby  .... WTH I'd try it
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 21:33:36
Subject: Re:CSM 6th Codex: Unit Analysis
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Ruthless Interrogator
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It is almost too eerie that the units I had planned to build before this codex "just for fun' ended up being incredibly viable. Spawn with MoN are going to be nasty, and I couldn't be more happy, as I finally have a unit of medium sized beasts that have been lacking in both the last Chaos codex and Chaos Daemons codex that fit a Nurgle theme and are a reasonable cost.
Also Palaquin for either a Sorcerer or Lord is awesome (and I'm no longer regretting the impulse buy on a box of Nurglings to build a palaquin) but in my opinion, a level 3 Palaquin Sorcerer with Biomancy is going to be killer. It gets expensive quick, but I honestly like the option, as Typhus shouldn't be the only auto-take for a Nurgle Sorcerer. Give him Sigil of Corruption and the dude gets silly tough. Roll an Iron Arm for Biomancy and it just becomes ridiculous. Might not be a tournament build, but I don't care it is fun, and useful and that's all I'm after.
If they don't change Epidemus' tally to only work for Daemons, then I think it is safe to say Epidemus allies will be a mainstay in competitive Nurgle lists.
I hope the 1k Sons players find some viable builds, perhaps with Daemon Allies, but I feel like everything else seems really good.
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You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games |
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