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TedNugent wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A GK brotherhood Champion, although he has to die for it to happen.

Even then Abaddon still gets a greater than 50-50 chance to live!

Is there anyone who can kill Abaddon in a challenge -without- dying?

Ghaz, if he's on a waagh,can faceroll him, with a bit of luck.

I've seen him go down to other SC's , but math-hammer wise it's beating the odds.

Usually i just shoot the fether.

Seriously? It would be like that scene in the lost ark. Lelith would be jumping and dancing around swinging her daggers, then Abbadon would just glance at her and blast her with a bolt of dark energy. Either that or he would just half-heartedly slice her in half with Drach'nyen.

 Ascalam wrote:

TedNugent wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
A GK brotherhood Champion, although he has to die for it to happen.

Even then Abaddon still gets a greater than 50-50 chance to live!

Is there anyone who can kill Abaddon in a challenge -without- dying?

Ghaz, if he's on a waagh,can faceroll him, with a bit of luck.

I've seen him go down to other SC's , but math-hammer wise it's beating the odds.

Usually i just shoot the fether.

I don't even think Ghaz could kill him, because he only gets one turn of 2++ before it goes back to a 5++. Maybe if he was in a unit of Nobz with a Wagh banner and a Painboy.

 Grey Templar wrote:


No, its around a 40% chance for the HS to fail. You can't DTW it as it doesn't target Abaddon.

Ld10 psychic test and 3+ to hit = (33/36)(2/3)=61.11% chance of Abaddon getting toasted.

Abaddon is Weapon Skill 7, so you're hitting on 4's...

Necron Overlord with MSS + Warscythe + Phase Shifter
If Abby doesn't have any AP2 attacks throw in a Sempiternal Weave.

Not sure if it'll work, but it might.

Abaddon has WS 7 so its a 4+ to hit.


As proven by my above mathhammer, the Swarmlord could.

A Fortuned Eldrad could, if he doesn't get squashed by the Talon of Horus that is!

Iranna.

This is such a one sided question of course abaddon would win, but you don't deserve an answer, I'll say chuck norris will win

Dude, lighten up

If they don't deserve an answer, don't post one.

Saves on flame wars.

 Deadshot wrote:
Abaddon has WS 7 so its a 4+ to hit.


As proven by my above mathhammer, the Swarmlord could.

This, I've played the fight out with a close friend many times now. (6th) no powers, with powers, charge or no charge,

Swarmlord forcing the re-rolls on the INV saves and simply being a bad mofo keeps Abbaddon in check. Basically a 50/50 fight.

A 2+ save, otherwise naked Hive Tyrant will also beat Abaddon if he has one of Iron Arm, Endurance, Enfeeble, or Warp Speed (which is pretty likely).

Everyone underestimates the Hive Tyrant.

I was going to say Tyrant, but the reliance on Biomancy which can't be effectively mathhammer due to random selection, reallythrows it out thewindow.

 Deadshot wrote:
I was going to say Tyrant, but the reliance on Biomancy which can't be effectively mathhammer due to random selection, reallythrows it out thewindow.

I'm not the king of mathhammer, but wouldn't it be possible to mathhammer the possibilities of getting the outcomes of biomancy rolls (and the likelyhood of them going off)?
Afterall there are "only" six possible random outcomes and the number goes down if you roll all your psychic powers on one table only.

Such level of detail is not really necessary. If the Hive Tyrant has and successfully casts any of those 4 listed powers, he is going to win, on average.

On average, he'll also have at least one of those powers (2 rolls, 4 results give him what he wants) and be able to cast it successfully.

If he doesn't have any of those powers, or fails to cast one every time, or generates enough Perils, the Hive Tyrant will lose, on average.

When did this become a ''beat Abaddon'' thread?

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
When did this become a ''beat Abaddon'' thread?

Three seconds in, when it was painfully obvious that Lilith had no chance of doing so.

 taudau wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I was going to say Tyrant, but the reliance on Biomancy which can't be effectively mathhammer due to random selection, reallythrows it out thewindow.

I'm not the king of mathhammer, but wouldn't it be possible to mathhammer the possibilities of getting the outcomes of biomancy rolls (and the likelyhood of them going off)?
Afterall there are "only" six possible random outcomes and the number goes down if you roll all your psychic powers on one table only.

The problem is though, that each roll is taken individually, and the average roll is 3.5, whih is rounded to 4, which means he has the useless Leech Lifwe. The next roll, as per mathhammer, would just keep getting 4, so the next closst to the average, which ios Endurance, is used. Endurance is nice, but FNP and a 5+ regen isn't going to change much. Besides those the only power we can factor in, by pure mathhammer, is Smite, which s ok but not entirely useful. Maybe the AP helps, but needing a Psychic Test, followed by Str 4, and BS 3, and Abaddon's 4++, puts chance of wound at 0.333, before factoring in the chance of psychic failure.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Lelith's getting an unsaved Wound 11% of the time with 7 Attacks (4 +2 from A League Apart +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 9, Abbadon's getting an unsaved Wound 9% of the time with 5 Attacks (4 +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 1. I'd actually call it for Lelith if she had Eternal Warrior, but she doesn't, so one hit from Abbadon downs her.

Right, but here's the thing, either Abaddon doesn't have only 5 attacks, or 1 is enough. With the sword on average he is putting out 7-8, 9-10 if it is on the charge, not just 5. And with the Claw that one unsaved wound kills her outright. She really does not stand a chance against him.

I was assuming that Abbadon would rather ID Lelith on one hit than get a few more attacks and have to chew through all three of her Wounds...

Abaddon must use either his sword or his Claw. He doesn't benifit from both anymore.

In this case, the Claw is best because one wound is all it takes.

 Deadshot wrote:

The problem is though, that each roll is taken individually, and the average roll is 3.5, whih is rounded to 4, which means he has the useless Leech Lifwe. The next roll, as per mathhammer, would just keep getting 4, so the next closst to the average, which ios Endurance, is used. Endurance is nice, but FNP and a 5+ regen isn't going to change much. Besides those the only power we can factor in, by pure mathhammer, is Smite, which s ok but not entirely useful. Maybe the AP helps, but needing a Psychic Test, followed by Str 4, and BS 3, and Abaddon's 4++, puts chance of wound at 0.333, before factoring in the chance of psychic failure.

You may want to refrain from trying to use math to prove anything in the future. None of this is sound logic.

Then please explain what is unclear.

Average roll on D6=3.5which rounds to 4, giving Leech Life.

Second roll then gives 4 (as each roll, even when rolled simultaneously, is essentially taken in a vacuum, with the other roll having no effect on the result) continiously based on averages, therefore, go to the next closest, 3 which is Endurance. I said that FNP and IWND is bice but doesn't completely change the game.

I then said that Smite, being the Primaris, is the only Guarenteed power. However, even without taking a psychic test, maths dictates that Abaddon would not take a wound. Factor inthe potential failure and the chances of wounding Abaddon with it decrease even further.



What is the problem?

There is no average roll on a D6. Its completely random as all results have the same chance.

Its only when you have multiple rolls that are dependent that you can plot averages.

 Iranna wrote:
A Fortuned Eldrad could, if he doesn't get squashed by the Talon of Horus that is!

Iranna.

Ah what? It would take Eldrad 19-20 rounds of combat to kill Abaddon, so where on earth do you get the idea that he would beat Abby?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Lelith's getting an unsaved Wound 11% of the time with 7 Attacks (4 +2 from A League Apart +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 9, Abbadon's getting an unsaved Wound 9% of the time with 5 Attacks (4 +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 1. I'd actually call it for Lelith if she had Eternal Warrior, but she doesn't, so one hit from Abbadon downs her.

Right, but here's the thing, either Abaddon doesn't have only 5 attacks, or 1 is enough. With the sword on average he is putting out 7-8, 9-10 if it is on the charge, not just 5. And with the Claw that one unsaved wound kills her outright. She really does not stand a chance against him.

I was assuming that Abbadon would rather ID Lelith on one hit than get a few more attacks and have to chew through all three of her Wounds...

Right, but if you were assuming that why did you say he causes only one unsaved wound? That's enough.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is no average roll on a D6. Its completely random as all results have the same chance.

Actually no, that's not how it works. There is no average roll, but there is an average result, and given that Warhammer doesn't deal in absolutes, you can easily average one dice (for instance, it is a 4+ to hit, not a 4 to hit, so it's the chances of rolling a 4, 5, or 6).

Forgive me. My teachers and personal rolling led me to believe otherwise. Then pray tell how you calculate which powers you get, without assumption?

 Deadshot wrote:
Forgive me. My teachers and personal rolling led me to believe otherwise. Then pray tell how you calculate which powers you get, without assumption?

Use every case.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Iranna wrote:
A Fortuned Eldrad could, if he doesn't get squashed by the Talon of Horus that is!

Iranna.

Ah what? It would take Eldrad 19-20 rounds of combat to kill Abaddon, so where on earth do you get the idea that he would beat Abby?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Lelith's getting an unsaved Wound 11% of the time with 7 Attacks (4 +2 from A League Apart +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 9, Abbadon's getting an unsaved Wound 9% of the time with 5 Attacks (4 +1 from two hand weapons) at Initiative 1. I'd actually call it for Lelith if she had Eternal Warrior, but she doesn't, so one hit from Abbadon downs her.

Right, but here's the thing, either Abaddon doesn't have only 5 attacks, or 1 is enough. With the sword on average he is putting out 7-8, 9-10 if it is on the charge, not just 5. And with the Claw that one unsaved wound kills her outright. She really does not stand a chance against him.

I was assuming that Abbadon would rather ID Lelith on one hit than get a few more attacks and have to chew through all three of her Wounds...

Right, but if you were assuming that why did you say he causes only one unsaved wound? That's enough.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There is no average roll on a D6. Its completely random as all results have the same chance.

Actually no, that's not how it works. There is no average roll, but there is an average result, and given that Warhammer doesn't deal in absolutes, you can easily average one dice (for instance, it is a 4+ to hit, not a 4 to hit, so it's the chances of rolling a 4, 5, or 6).

Well, yeah. I was referring to the Psychic table results, which are truly random as each roll is completely different and multiple rolls on the table don't have a major effect.

Lelith has no chance. I don't think it matters which weapon Abaddon chooses-both the Talon and Drach'nyen should be more than enough. Lelith has always suffered from her strength. If the devs gave her two agonizers like she always should have had (along with her shardnet-hair of course), we'd be set.

I guess the reason they don't give her two agonizers is that GW doesn't want the game to be rated M or worse.

I fail to see how 2 agonizers would make it more M then it already is?

Game wise: Lelith doesn't have a chance.

Fluff wise: she's already dead. Killed by a salamander chaplain in one of nick kyme's books. So.. Unless Nurgle is able to steal her soul from slaanesh and turn her into a zombie, the fight ain't gonna happen.

Well, she probably has the typical DE way of cheating death. A homunculous probably has already cloned her.

clively wrote:
Game wise: Lelith doesn't have a chance.

Fluff wise: she's already dead. Killed by a salamander chaplain in one of nick kyme's books. So.. Unless Nurgle is able to steal her soul from slaanesh and turn her into a zombie, the fight ain't gonna happen.

Different spelling in Kyme's book, not the same person IIRC.

From personally experience Lelith got squashed by Vulkan though..