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 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
I'm pretty excited about the Fireblades. People have been complaining forever about letting Firewarriors take special weapons, but as any Tau fan knows, FWs using something besides the Pulse Carbine or Pulse Rifle is strictly against their combat doctrine. Which is fine with me, as well as anybody who uses FWs properly. They are not Tactical Marines nor should they be used as such. Pulse guns are perfect for their role.

But it looks like the Fireblade can be tossed in to give them a bit more spicy flavor.

Perhaps the fluff has expanded to allow them to add Ion weaponry to their training. If so I will be using pathfinder bits on firewarrior bodies if the Ion weapons have a good profile.

Entirely possible. But I have a feeling that Pathfinders will remain the special weapons team.
I base that on the fact that, if FWs can take special weapons, then they'd be pretty much the same as PFs, minus the Infiltration. I'm betting (and hoping) that they'll keep the roles separate.

"The Tau are too silly/not serious enough for 40k, but the Orks ..totally legit."

uberjoras wrote:
not really a fan of some of the rumored rules. Looks like we're going to be pidgeonholed into spamming crisis suits, the new flyers, and railheads, to remain competitive.

What a strange assessment. I see quite the opposite. Ethereals, with their distribution of VERY worthwhile bonuses might now be worth taking, along with the aforementioned Caste Fireblades, which means a Crisis HQ might become a rarity.
And, depending on how good Stealth teams become, we might see more Stealth and Riptide than we do Crisis.

I don't see the flyer being very popular atm, based on reactions to the model, and the fact that it's competing with the tried and true Pathfinders, possibly juiced-up Vespids, and Piranhas.

I agree, what we've heard so far sounds very promising and fun to use.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:


It was silly and grimdark the same time, lot of art in Rogue Trader was mad, gigerish, dark and opressive. There were jaguar pants too ofc.

http://warpsignal.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/rogue-trader-emperor.jpg

Which could as well be said for the Tau (upon introduction) as well.

They were both a naive, "good" race to provide a counterpoint (if that's what you wanted to emphasise) and (!) they were an analogy on mind-control, a ginormous project in "civilization engineering" that makes the Emperor's Primarch/Space Marine project look like child's play and a 40K-tribute to Asimov's 1000-year-plan and his creation of a sci-fi cliche of a 2nd, inclusive Galactic Empire created to mitigate the future cataclysm resulting from the "big galactic empires" presaged/foretold/predicted/eventual collapse.

A lot of the fluff in the old Tau stuff lived up to that. Farsight could be played as heroic rebel, breaking from the stiff caste system or as a doomed, dark soul corrupted by a cursed sword.

If this is true then it's indeed a good grimdark joke in how the supposedly best guys are the worst etc. It just lacks the OTT ridiculous aspect with the minimalistic theme and gives somehow a too bright in the dark universe impression. Yes I was about them being a counterpoint, I liked 40k without counterpoints it was part of its charm at some point.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Let's keep the "designers lied about Tau being grimdark" nonsense out of this news& rumour thread. Don't feed the troll who just wants to discuss his hate for Tau.

I don't hate Tau I only think they don't fit. I only hate Kroot because of the design, tried to like them but they only look off to me, anyway not discussing it, de gustibus and all. I admit that my initial post about discontinuing Tau can be interpreted as trolling, I don't know tbh I don't recognise the line beyond which you troll. I like provocative statements and the disscusion following but don't have malicious intentions just post what I think. Sorry for the wrong thread, reading it reminded me of my stance at Tau so posted it (though was close to post how I hate squats too so maybe there is indeed some troll within ).

See the guy above you made me think. I want my grimdark to be blunt and jump at me immediately from minis and art, I generaly don't believe in mood driven mainly by fluff but if there's some sleek yellow toys of evil aspect to Tau that I just don't see, maybe it's time to look again.

RogueRegault wrote:
You're approaching grimdark from the edgy 12 year old "everybody is evil" perspective. Tau approach it from the "everybody is doomed" perspective.

The grim and dark OTT grimdark is the aspect of 40k I particularly love, everybody is so evil that it absolutely makes no sense and there's also that Lovecraftian vibe underneath. It is so ridiculous yet awesome and the parody in itself, throwing the good vs evil cliches and dumb things like reason out and just clashing endless armies of evil running at each other from impossible hills.

Not sure if this is 12 years old perspective, I'd say the way I see it, it's just a great as a kick in the teeth for all the reasonable, politicaly correct and explainable sf that seem to be everywhere nowadays.

If so, plastic models are kind of 12 years old thing anyway so guesss it's ok.

Whether or now the Tau aesthetic or background fits well with the rest of 40k is a topic best left to its own thread in the 40k Background forum.

Yeah sorry.

 Archonate wrote:

uberjoras wrote:
not really a fan of some of the rumored rules. Looks like we're going to be pidgeonholed into spamming crisis suits, the new flyers, and railheads, to remain competitive.

What a strange assessment. I see quite the opposite. Ethereals, with their distribution of VERY worthwhile bonuses might now be worth taking, along with the aforementioned Caste Fireblades, which means a Crisis HQ might become a rarity.
And, depending on how good Stealth teams become, we might see more Stealth and Riptide than we do Crisis.

I don't see the flyer being very popular atm, based on reactions to the model, and the fact that it's competing with the tried and true Pathfinders, possibly juiced-up Vespids, and Piranhas.

S5 en-masse still isn't going to do much. In my local meta, people have come to the conclusion that Ailaros reached when 6ed dropped - mech is still king in 6th. And s5 just won't cut it versus a half dozen vehicles, especially ones with invuln saves like in DA. Fire Warriors will still be vulnerable and squishy. Stealth suits are still just expensive short ranged t4 1w 3+ models. Tau vehicles are still not fast, nor do they allow us to project firepower from inside.

The standout winners are going to be the rumored "broken" flyers, who will at least be decent in a game with few good flyer takedown methods, railheads with a points decrease and removal of competing units of broadsides, and crisis suits who still outgun the riptide, for the same cost if not cheaper whilst being more survivable if LOS blocking terrain is available.

What remains to be seen are: kroot, vespids, ethereals, and pathfinders (potentially the flyers, but again, metagame wise they seem to be a good choice besides anything else). Even then; pathfinders are better using their markerlights to light up suit targets than FW targets in most cases, and special weapons are only a bonus, not a reason to take them - see tactical marines. Kroot could go either way - cheaper/better would be awesome, to compete with an ork boy, sideways/same would keep them as a "meh" choice that you take in case of forests, a nerf would of course make them pretty terrible. Vespids rumored as being better has my attention, and there are many ways to do so, but I don't know how vetock will go about doing it - it would be easy to make them OP if they keep their ap3 weapons. Ethereals could become better, but at that point you've got a lot of piddly HQ's around, who serve the purpose of clustering you up and keeping you still for a lovely artillery barrage, or an encirclement by assaulters, who will be moving forward to capture objectives.

The Riptide seems to be overpriced and underarmed. Now, a Dreadknight is great, because it tears through things in CC, and it also has amazing shooting power to back it up, as well as its teleporter shunt to guarantee good hits against exposed enemies, and an amazing array of support in the form of the GK army. If the DK has trouble, you can throw some assaulty dudes into the mix to help him. Tau don't have that, so its shooting better be worth at least 1 fire warrior per 10 points for me to consider it's giant, ugly mug. New IC's are just more meat to be shot up in FW squads that are already going to bite it versus a long list of things, heavy bolters, autocannons, psycannons, assault cannons, a stiff breeze in CC, even bolters and lasguns tear FW apart pretty fast. Plus, for the same reasons as I mentioned for ethereals, AoE buffs are a great way to trick yourself into losing, or spending points on things you won't make full use of/get blapped on turn 1. I can think of a lot of cases where a clusterfeth of AoE buffs is more harmful to you than the benefits they provide.

Some of the stuff seems interesting, but tau are already a really tricky army. I hope vetock doesn't make them a "finesse" army like DE.

uberjoras wrote:

 Archonate wrote:

uberjoras wrote:
not really a fan of some of the rumored rules. Looks like we're going to be pidgeonholed into spamming crisis suits, the new flyers, and railheads, to remain competitive.

What a strange assessment. I see quite the opposite. Ethereals, with their distribution of VERY worthwhile bonuses might now be worth taking, along with the aforementioned Caste Fireblades, which means a Crisis HQ might become a rarity.
And, depending on how good Stealth teams become, we might see more Stealth and Riptide than we do Crisis.

I don't see the flyer being very popular atm, based on reactions to the model, and the fact that it's competing with the tried and true Pathfinders, possibly juiced-up Vespids, and Piranhas.

S5 en-masse still isn't going to do much. In my local meta, people have come to the conclusion that Ailaros reached when 6ed dropped - mech is still king in 6th. And s5 just won't cut it versus a half dozen vehicles, especially ones with invuln saves like in DA. Fire Warriors will still be vulnerable and squishy. Stealth suits are still just expensive short ranged t4 1w 3+ models. Tau vehicles are still not fast, nor do they allow us to project firepower from inside.

The standout winners are going to be the rumored "broken" flyers, who will at least be decent in a game with few good flyer takedown methods, railheads with a points decrease and removal of competing units of broadsides, and crisis suits who still outgun the riptide, for the same cost if not cheaper whilst being more survivable if LOS blocking terrain is available.

What remains to be seen are: kroot, vespids, ethereals, and pathfinders (potentially the flyers, but again, metagame wise they seem to be a good choice besides anything else). Even then; pathfinders are better using their markerlights to light up suit targets than FW targets in most cases, and special weapons are only a bonus, not a reason to take them - see tactical marines. Kroot could go either way - cheaper/better would be awesome, to compete with an ork boy, sideways/same would keep them as a "meh" choice that you take in case of forests, a nerf would of course make them pretty terrible. Vespids rumored as being better has my attention, and there are many ways to do so, but I don't know how vetock will go about doing it - it would be easy to make them OP if they keep their ap3 weapons. Ethereals could become better, but at that point you've got a lot of piddly HQ's around, who serve the purpose of clustering you up and keeping you still for a lovely artillery barrage, or an encirclement by assaulters, who will be moving forward to capture objectives.

The Riptide seems to be overpriced and underarmed. Now, a Dreadknight is great, because it tears through things in CC, and it also has amazing shooting power to back it up, as well as its teleporter shunt to guarantee good hits against exposed enemies, and an amazing array of support in the form of the GK army. If the DK has trouble, you can throw some assaulty dudes into the mix to help him. Tau don't have that, so its shooting better be worth at least 1 fire warrior per 10 points for me to consider it's giant, ugly mug. New IC's are just more meat to be shot up in FW squads that are already going to bite it versus a long list of things, heavy bolters, autocannons, psycannons, assault cannons, a stiff breeze in CC, even bolters and lasguns tear FW apart pretty fast. Plus, for the same reasons as I mentioned for ethereals, AoE buffs are a great way to trick yourself into losing, or spending points on things you won't make full use of/get blapped on turn 1. I can think of a lot of cases where a clusterfeth of AoE buffs is more harmful to you than the benefits they provide.

Some of the stuff seems interesting, but tau are already a really tricky army. I hope vetock doesn't make them a "finesse" army like DE.

This is assuming a lot about the options given to Crisis suits, broadsides, the Riptide as well as what the special characters add to the army. I feel like your making too many assumptions without enough information.

uberjoras wrote:
Some of the stuff seems interesting, but tau are already a really tricky army. I hope vetock doesn't make them a "finesse" army like DE.

I couldn't agree more! Part of me thinks that the skill requirement of xenos armies is part of marketing SM (and more recently IG). It'd be nice to have a low skill competitive build in this book and then maybe people would pick up more Tau.

Anyway, I am making the assumption that the studio has a handle on the universal meta -- and of course a further assumption that there really is a universal meta in the first place. Both are bad assumptions ...

 Manchu wrote:

uberjoras wrote:
Some of the stuff seems interesting, but tau are already a really tricky army. I hope vetock doesn't make them a "finesse" army like DE.

I couldn't agree more! Part of me thinks that the skill requirement of xenos armies is part of marketing SM (and more recently IG). It'd be nice to have a low skill competitive build in this book and then maybe people would pick up more Tau.

Anyway, I am making the assumption that the studio has a handle on the universal meta -- and of course a further assumption that there really is a universal meta in the first place. Both are bad assumptions ...

Personally, I like the fact that Tau are a tricky army to play. I really don't want a top tier, easy to win with army, as it makes it that much more sweet when I am victorious. I honestly hope, however, that they have made a well-balanced Codex that can be competitive, discourages spamming of units, and looks good to boot (which this new release, aside from lack of new Crisis suits, has already succeeded at IMHO). I don't want a bunch of new bandwagoners who think Tau are now awesome to suddenly pop up, and I don't want to be called cheese, either; I just want a challenging, yet competitive army sitting around mid-tier, with some awesome looking units.

Im kinda excited to take broadsides with skyfire, I need them in my SM army for taking out flyers.

Hell, I hope it's a finesse army. There is nothing better then taking an army that other people don't understand and then obliterating them with it. Dark Eldar were awesome in 5th edition, I loved playing that army more then any other for years. They really took a bad hit in the move to 6th edition, which is sad. But, I have a fully armed and operational tau army now (all options in the book, maxed out and painted and magnatized). I'll be more then happy if the army seems odd to play at first. Look at necrons, no one knew what to do with them for awhile, and that's a great army.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im kinda excited to take broadsides with skyfire, I need them in my SM army for taking out flyers.

I'm kinda scared to see some armies with access to some of the goodies that Tau are getting. I mean, IG are already broke gak, how about with Farsight, a Riptide, a unit of broadsides and a flyer? I mean, assuming they keep the Farsight Deathbomb, all of a sudden any army can get damn near an entire FOC's worth of crisis suits, as well as a riptide and our supposedly broke ass flyer. Not to mention what is going to end up being some of the best non-flyer anti-flyer in the game right now.

If worst comes to worst, I might buy some for my Eldar army.

@Spectreoneone...

This is the issue with supposed band wagoners. Much of the time it's flavour of the month, but other want to start the army because they like the models.

I fall in the latter. Some of the models I disliked a lot - Broadsides, Kroot, Ethereal and Skyray just looked meh.

Now the new Broadsides look amazing and I'm a huge fan of the Riptide.

I couldn't care less about the rules on this army, I just want to have fun with the Tau and have the option to go competitive if I choose to.

Same happened for Daemons. I like the models a lot, but not so much their playstyle and I've wanted a Daemon army for longer than I can remember. Same for Tau tbh.

I don't see anything wrong with hopping on the bandwagon. If nothing else, it means a larger resale market for those who don't hop off.

People will find ways to beat Tau even if the codex comes out and they are top tier. I think having multiple competitive builds is really important. As a DA player, the only real competitive build is greenwing and that makes the DA less fun to play as a lot of the codex just isnt written well or is way overcosted for the rules they have (terminator models and the weak DA flyers for example).

I'm hoping for more of a Necron type codex where we have some serious options to keep us interested for years to come.

In regards to DA, I've only had issues with Crons, Eldar and Guard with my Deathwing. Nids can be tough but winnable. Not seen Greenwing do to well in my Meta.

OT...

I welcome a different army. Not so much finesse or easy army to play. I just want something different where I can use a tactic that isn't tanking with 2+ saves and two Raiders while a Belial Blob belts seven shades out of a unit on an assassination Deep Strike.

 Ministry wrote:
People will find ways to beat Tau even if the codex comes out and they are top tier. I think having multiple competitive builds is really important. As a DA player, the only real competitive build is greenwing and that makes the DA less fun to play as a lot of the codex just isnt written well or is way overcosted for the rules they have (terminator models and the weak DA flyers for example).

I'm hoping for more of a Necron type codex where we have some serious options to keep us interested for years to come.

I agree on this point. While many consider them OP, my necrons are great because I can field no fewer than 4 different list "archetypes" and be competitive with each. AV13/14 wall lists, Flyer Overload (aka Cron Air), Silver Tide, Canoptek Fever, Royal Court Disco Inferno, etc.

Using the current tau book there are 2 reasonably decent lists, but i find neither to be top-tier or competitive. You have fully mech'ed tau with disruption pods and SMS devilfish everywhere, and you have fully suited tau using 9 broadsides and 15 crisis suits. Sprinkle in fire warriors or kroot to taste... But the points and weaknesses to CC while not having good buffs to shooting to compensate kill it for me.

My hope is that the new Tau book will come to terms with the fact that our assault phase is largely nonexistant, other than the thrust move with jetpacks. Given this, they will hopefully buff the shooting for reasonable points costs to compensate -- any army who gets through the torrents of fire will be rewarded by a very simple assault phase of death. I would hate to have to look at someone a month from now and say, "Well, I really like to play an army that focuses solely on shooting attacks, so i play NECRONS .

Im just looking forward to it TBH. Im looking forward to learning how to play them. And fielding a fully painted Riptide and seeing my friends faces(I have a rule where nothing gets fielding unless it is painted)

 Ministry wrote:
People will find ways to beat Tau even if the codex comes out and they are top tier. I think having multiple competitive builds is really important. As a DA player, the only real competitive build is greenwing and that makes the DA less fun to play as a lot of the codex just isnt written well or is way overcosted for the rules they have (terminator models and the weak DA flyers for example).

I'm hoping for more of a Necron type codex where we have some serious options to keep us interested for years to come.

Actually DA have a lot of similar options to what we're rumored at in the tau codex, and have a lot of options for how you can play them. Tau are still roughly the same monobuild no matter what you do to them. Suits and FW. Everything else is just tacked on to hopefully prevent those from dying. Wheras most Marines have the option to build an effective basic infantry army, tau simply dont have the option for that; we need to include suits or loads of vehicles in every single army. I would like the new codex to be all about the bread and butter fire warriors, but I want everything else to have a very useful place still, so that if I were to take a "kitchen sink" list, I wouldn't have units that were "bad", but maybe at worst a sideways upgrade (like dev team vs vindicator). Like pulse carbines/rifles; right now, rifles on every unit, not even a question. After? Hopefully it's a tough choice that boils down to your playstyle. I love the Dark Eldar codex, it was amazing in 5th ed; tricky, sometimes you lost because of bad luck, but always an interesting and fun game, on both sides. Tau with that style of codex would be excellent.

Total vouch for Paulson Games. His Mech stuff is top of the line. I have several of his pieces in my army. I think one of his mech heads will fit nice perched upon the new Riptide unit. It's much larger than a standard crisis head and even better looking imo. The built in aerial is a nice touch as well.

The best army codex, are the ones that have no glaring best unit, one where each player can make a force that they enjoy both to build paint and play, and have reasonable chances of winning (barring stupidity or dice gods), but that being said even some of the best still devolve on the internet to web lists optomized for tourny play etc...can, and will happen, the IG spring to mind, one of the most extensive and versatile codex, and all you see toted is the valk spam.

Tau have always been a bit of Finess/combined arms playstyle army with a glaring weakness, and its what made them truly different in the 40k game, hopefully (and it looks that way from the rumors) it will stay that way, just with alot more options..hopefully tons more options.

And as to bandwagoneers..more the merrier, plenty of room in the manta for them

I for one am looking forward to models I wont feel such a need to convert...err well I will likely still convert them a bit, but doing a forest camo XV104 will be alot of fun

Only bandwagen i saw where chaos.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Only bandwagen i saw where chaos.

You must be new here.

But seriously, accusations of bandwagon'ing come up with every 'OMG OP!' release.

Regarding the withdrawal of the Hammerhead...

Possible extra turret variants like Forge World in the new box?

I would be fine with one or two "broken" units in the tau book (possibly the flyers and Riptide Suit), I won't lie. I want that power to wield as I see fit, and rend my enemies asunder with super efficient killing power that is nearly unstoppable without a specific countermeasure.

That being said In the long run I want an overall balanced book with at least 3 or 4 viable ways to build an army list, so i can fiddle with lists and not get bored of a monothematic army.

Skyray is still available on the gw site, likely its due to it will become a one stop purchase for hammerhead/skyray needs, as it has been for several years for most people...I know I have not bought a hammerhead kit when a skyray was offered.

Maybe new box art or something, but will hope for more options...c'mon GW I have a huge tax return comming dont you want my money..make cool stuff!

And I dont have any friends of significant others to spend money on. Get this released soon before i spend it on more Subs.