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 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I think what you are seeing is the difference between a mobile gunline and just being mobile. To me, I see the option to deploy as a standard gunline, but then rapidly redeploy after you blunt the first wave. Other than the loss of firing as if they were vast vehicles, you don't really lose much by moving, you just gain advantages for staying still. They still have skimmer transports which are faster than your typical tracked transport.

On the riptide, I think it's just like many other units. It has a large variety of abilities, but you can't take them all, otherwise you end up with a bloated point cost. The question is whether or not it can be effective with a different minimal builds. If so then you have flexibility in your choices, which is a good thing.

FWs sound much improved (lower point cost, photon grenades as standard gear, multi-unit overwatch, and some hefty bonuses provided by characters) so you have a stronger basic troop choice and better options to support them.

But the advantages we get for standing still and the lack of ability to rapidly redeploy as you say is exactly why we aren't a mobile gunline, just a standard one. FWs are no faster then any one elses infantry, so if they attempt to stand and double fire, the are going to get run down because they haven't been backing up all gaem like people do right now. We are actually teased into not being mobile by having that buff.

On a different note:

I just ordered 2 underslung and 2 normal missle pods from paulson games about 30mins ago, so I can convert my first missileside. I may not use a bunch of them, but I'll make sure to own at least one, Paulson games may get more of my money as well since I doubt I will buy any broadsides/suits seeing as I have too many already.

Sooo... how many firewarrior squads can I fit behind a Aegis wall? The BS 5 character mans the guns, the rest lay down carpets of fire.

Has there been any information on the new Tau fluff?

guys i just thought of something!!! the old farsight held his sword in his left hand. this new one holds it in his right hand.........*runs off to get old and new farsight kit for epic duel sword welding goodness.*

Still no word on whether anything was done to make the pulse carbines usable again. This interests me as I have some fire warriors modelled with them and I would prefer them not to suck.

 Crimson wrote:
Still no word on whether anything was done to make the pulse carbines usable again. This interests me as I have some fire warriors modelled with them and I would prefer them not to suck.

I just want more than 1 choice with my main troop slots.

 Atheos wrote:
Has there been any information on the new Tau fluff?

As far as I noticed, nothing.
The only thing I saw is that Farsight is back and that he is both loyal and rebel
We shall see, but seeing how this is Vetock and he did Dark Angels fluff nicely I expect nothing less then excellent fluff from him.

I think it's actually the opposite result. Don't get me wrong I like the changes (mostly because I just want changes), but honestly it reduces the mobile aspect of the army.

- Receive +1 shot when staying stationary when firing rifle or carbine. Reduce mobility for sure.
- Supporting Fire: We now need to keep a majority of our units closer together to make best use of their firepower, seems like a reduction in mobility since we are reduced to the speed of the slowest unit to maintain this formation. Firewarrior are slow for sure, especially if maintaining still for extra firepower.
- Rumored loss of Ability for our tanks to fire "as if they were fast"

None of these seem to make me think the army is headed to a more mobile gunline, I feel like we are headed toward a more IG type gunline. But I'm OK with the changes, I just want the codex to change and bring bout new tactics

As more updated rumors have been coming in I am becoming more optimistic about the upcoming Tau codex, but this is what I truly fear the Tau codex might be. If I wanted to play IG, I would play IG. I want to play Tau, and that means continually moving around the battlefield, especially with the suits and the hovertanks. Granted, the first two bullets points are technically just buffs we are forfeiting by not playing static, which is not the end of the world because the choice is still their to play mobile. But that third rumor suggest our tanks will be hamstrung, losing the ability to effectively fire at all if they move over 6", which I find abhorrent. The suits should not be the only mobile ground based element of the army, I loved the fact that the tanks could keep pace with them and support them.

Everything will be known next Wednesday.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Still no word on whether anything was done to make the pulse carbines usable again. This interests me as I have some fire warriors modelled with them and I would prefer them not to suck.

I just want more than 1 choice with my main troop slots.

Indeed. and that's why it would be awfully nice if carbines were a real option. Then you at least could have differently armed fire warrior squads.

Phanixis wrote:

I think it's actually the opposite result. Don't get me wrong I like the changes (mostly because I just want changes), but honestly it reduces the mobile aspect of the army.

- Receive +1 shot when staying stationary when firing rifle or carbine. Reduce mobility for sure.
- Supporting Fire: We now need to keep a majority of our units closer together to make best use of their firepower, seems like a reduction in mobility since we are reduced to the speed of the slowest unit to maintain this formation. Firewarrior are slow for sure, especially if maintaining still for extra firepower.
- Rumored loss of Ability for our tanks to fire "as if they were fast"

None of these seem to make me think the army is headed to a more mobile gunline, I feel like we are headed toward a more IG type gunline. But I'm OK with the changes, I just want the codex to change and bring bout new tactics

As more updated rumors have been coming in I am becoming more optimistic about the upcoming Tau codex, but this is what I truly fear the Tau codex might be. If I wanted to play IG, I would play IG. I want to play Tau, and that means continually moving around the battlefield, especially with the suits and the hovertanks. Granted, the first two bullets points are technically just buffs we are forfeiting by not playing static, which is not the end of the world because the choice is still their to play mobile. But that third rumor suggest our tanks will be hamstrung, losing the ability to effectively fire at all if they move over 6", which I find abhorrent. The suits should not be the only mobile ground based element of the army, I loved the fact that the tanks could keep pace with them and support them.

I'm confused. How has much of anything changed?

Who was running firewarriors around outside of d-fish? anyone, anyone? Hello?
Who didn't have pathfinders parked in cover using heavy markerlights? anyone, anyone? hello?
Who didn't have BS4 broadsides in ruins or behind and ADL? no ASS means, no move and shoot, or were others besides me walking their broadsides around? However, the new broadsides seem to have something similar to S&P so again, what change?
Crisis suits and stealth suits haven't changed.
Piranha's are still fast

The only thing that makes anything seem like it might be slower is the loss of making thing fire as if fast, but who knows if there isn't a piece of wargear or a special rule that just flat out let a tank fire all of its weapons. Hell, back in 5th edition hammerheads and D-fish lost 6" of movement thanks to defensive weapons nerf. I really don't see how this has slowed down much of anything.

Now you have a few rules that seem to benifit the tau if they stay closeish together. But with the nerfs to charging, multi-charging, and now supped up overwatch, maybe it wont be such a bad thing to keep your guys a little closer together. DA players don't seem to mind huddling together to get bennies from banners and what not. Hell, it might even be a boon as now you get even better bennies when you try to focus more of your force on a single part of the enemy army. Tau never had an all for me and screw you guys play style. The idea of a deathstar (unless you count Farsight's entourage) is non-existant for tau. We have historically had to keep our guys working in small groups together.

I see it not as a lack of mobility, but a much better representation of small unit tactics and unit assists.

But again, we don't know the whole story yet. Looking forward to it. However, that Tau unit with the commander and extra shot seems like it would be a great forward unit. Two shots out to 30" per guy, 3 shots out to 15, 3 shots when ultimately charged, and then everyone around also helping in. Not to mention the unit is wounding T4 and lower on a 2+. Hell, wounding Thunderwolves on a 3+. Now thats scary.

 Jayden63 wrote:

Phanixis wrote:

I think it's actually the opposite result. Don't get me wrong I like the changes (mostly because I just want changes), but honestly it reduces the mobile aspect of the army.

- Receive +1 shot when staying stationary when firing rifle or carbine. Reduce mobility for sure.
- Supporting Fire: We now need to keep a majority of our units closer together to make best use of their firepower, seems like a reduction in mobility since we are reduced to the speed of the slowest unit to maintain this formation. Firewarrior are slow for sure, especially if maintaining still for extra firepower.
- Rumored loss of Ability for our tanks to fire "as if they were fast"

None of these seem to make me think the army is headed to a more mobile gunline, I feel like we are headed toward a more IG type gunline. But I'm OK with the changes, I just want the codex to change and bring bout new tactics

As more updated rumors have been coming in I am becoming more optimistic about the upcoming Tau codex, but this is what I truly fear the Tau codex might be. If I wanted to play IG, I would play IG. I want to play Tau, and that means continually moving around the battlefield, especially with the suits and the hovertanks. Granted, the first two bullets points are technically just buffs we are forfeiting by not playing static, which is not the end of the world because the choice is still their to play mobile. But that third rumor suggest our tanks will be hamstrung, losing the ability to effectively fire at all if they move over 6", which I find abhorrent. The suits should not be the only mobile ground based element of the army, I loved the fact that the tanks could keep pace with them and support them.

I'm confused. How has much of anything changed?

Who was running firewarriors around outside of d-fish? anyone, anyone? Hello?
I do. I tend to run at least 6x6 Firewarriors, and haven't used D.Fish in quite a while. (Since I stopped using my Pathfinders.)
Infact, that it looks like we get a Firewarrior Commander, meaning can do a pure Firewarrior army makes me very happy.
Who didn't have pathfinders parked in cover using heavy markerlights? anyone, anyone? hello?
Who didn't have BS4 broadsides in ruins or behind and ADL? no ASS means, no move and shoot, or were others besides me walking their broadsides around? However, the new broadsides seem to have something similar to S&P so again, what change?
Crisis suits and stealth suits haven't changed.
Piranha's are still fast

The only thing that makes anything seem like it might be slower is the loss of making thing fire as if fast, but who knows if there isn't a piece of wargear or a special rule that just flat out let a tank fire all of its weapons. Hell, back in 5th edition hammerheads and D-fish lost 6" of movement thanks to defensive weapons nerf. I really don't see how this has slowed down much of anything.

Now you have a few rules that seem to benifit the tau if they stay closeish together. But with the nerfs to charging, multi-charging, and now supped up overwatch, maybe it wont be such a bad thing to keep your guys a little closer together. DA players don't seem to mind huddling together to get bennies from banners and what not. Hell, it might even be a boon as now you get even better bennies when you try to focus more of your force on a single part of the enemy army. Tau never had an all for me and screw you guys play style. The idea of a deathstar (unless you count Farsight's entourage) is non-existant for tau. We have historically had to keep our guys working in small groups together.

I see it not as a lack of mobility, but a much better representation of small unit tactics and unit assists.

But again, we don't know the whole story yet. Looking forward to it. However, that Tau unit with the commander and extra shot seems like it would be a great forward unit. Two shots out to 30" per guy, 3 shots out to 15, 3 shots when ultimately charged, and then everyone around also helping in. Not to mention the unit is wounding T4 and lower on a 2+. Hell, wounding Thunderwolves on a 3+. Now thats scary.

I mean, I'm only keeping one eye on the rumours, and mostly skimming stuff, preferring to wait for the codex in hand, but I love my Firewarriors, and they've served me well!

 Ovion wrote:

I mean, I'm only keeping one eye on the rumours, and mostly skimming stuff, preferring to wait for the codex in hand, but I love my Firewarriors, and they've served me well!

Ditto

Anyone know if the riptide is going to be a walker or a monstrous creature.

If you could inbox that would be great as the response will probably get lost in a million comments.

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

I mean, I'm only keeping one eye on the rumours, and mostly skimming stuff, preferring to wait for the codex in hand, but I love my Firewarriors, and they've served me well!

Ditto

Even though I said the above, I have 36 fully painted firewarriors ready to go, unfortunately 24 of them haven't left their case in ages. (two units of 6 both in D-fish). I'd really love to put more on the table if they become actually useful as a troops choice and actually do their job. Seeing LD7 in the leaked statline does not give me much faith that their ability as objective holders is going to be that strong.

I don't think the Tau are meant to be a fully mobile force necessarily though, and that's why the extra shots aren't built into the firewarriors, they are an optional HQ you could choose to use if you want a static list, if not you pick a Crisis Commander who can redeploy as needed while still dishing out all his firepower.

Arguably firewarriors are more mobile than many forces because they don't have heavy weapons mixed in that burden other armies, and even if you are using them in a static way, it's going to be more about moving to support them when they become threatened, it's not about running away from the enemy shooting necessarily so much as it's about moving units to support with a devastating overwatch volley.

The force still has mobility, it also has options for giving up some of that mobility to make a more powerful static line, either way, the mobility isn't about being able to outpace the fastest units in the game, it's about responding to threats and adjusting to an evolving combat situation.

What we have seen of the new fluff supports this idea, and they did a good job of translating it to the tabletop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ozomoto wrote:
Anyone know if the riptide is going to be a walker or a monstrous creature.

If you could inbox that would be great as the response will probably get lost in a million comments.

Rumours have been calling it a Monstrous Creature for a looooong time now.

Could maybe turn out to be a walker, but it seems unlikely.

I don't use d-fish, they're a waste of points, and firewarriors inside one don't do anything so are only worth about half their points.

Haven't used pathfinders since 5th. Went without marker lights for the start of 6th, got tetras now, so still don't use pathfinders.

Crisis suits are the whole army for the most part.

Stealthsuits just don't do anything taht firewarriors can do right now.

I stopped using piranha since the amount of landraiders diminished.

I want my army to change, I've done plenty well with it, but I want it to win tournaments without having to resort to using only 4 units and allies. (Currently FWS, Crisis Suits, Broadsides and Tetras. Bigger games get a Hammerhead. Aand spice with Eldar)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Arguably firewarriors are more mobile than many forces because they don't have heavy weapons mixed in that burden other armies, and even if you are using them in a static way, it's going to be more about moving to support them when they become threatened, it's not about running away from the enemy shooting necessarily so much as it's about moving units to support with a devastating overwatch volley.

Ha, I truely laughed at that. I wish we COULD take heavy weapons on drones or something.

You have some decent points.

BTW, it's a monstrous creature. Lets just hope it has the options to shoot more tehn 2 weapons a turn.

Devilfishs are great at delivering troops to the fight. They are quite fast being skimmers and don't have to worry as much about moving through terrain. They often get a 3+ cover on whatever they're worried about. You can flank your opponent with 2 devilfishs filled with fire warriors and really put the hurt on 1 or 2 squads, not to mention that if they're pathfinder fish borrowed from them, you can deepstrike guys to support you without worrying so much about losing the squad

 Ledabot wrote:
Devilfishs are great at delivering troops to the fight. They are quite fast being skimmers and don't have to worry as much about moving through terrain. They often get a 3+ cover on whatever they're worried about. You can flank your opponent with 2 devilfishs filled with fire warriors and really put the hurt on 1 or 2 squads, not to mention that if they're pathfinder fish borrowed from them, you can deepstrike guys to support you without worrying so much about losing the squad

Since this is the Tau leaked information thread, i won't get started on the devilfish arguements, but lets just say a lot of people 9myself included) totally disagree with you.

Lets hope they reduced the price on Devilfish. Haven't heard and rumors on them.

Devilfish get a lot of hate but I like mine, especially with 3+ cover almost all the time. A reduction in points and a firepoint or two would be very welcome, though, especially with all the new toys that will be competing for points.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Ugh, the Broadside Missile variant is too much. I liked the old design much more. GW knew the limit back then.

I'm a bit leery of the Broadmissile, but I can understand what they're doing.

With the "old" Broadside, the Smart Missile System was an auxiliary weapon system. The Railguns were the main weapons, with the SMS as back-up or alternatively replaced with Plasma Rifles for a more reliable usage without needing Markerlights.
With the Broadmissile, the missile system is the primary weapon system.

It reminds me of the EVE Online adage "don't mix ranges". This way, you can specialize the suits for a specific purpose.

Not mixing ranges in eve has more to do with damage falloff than jack of all trades'ish ness. IN fact, it could be completely ignored if you were a caldari pilot, or hot-swapped if you were using t1 lazors. In 40k, you dont go from str 9 to str 4 when you range is reaching.

I have always loved the Fire Warrior. I started playing Tau during 4ed, and even during 5th, when they were almost universally decried, my humble FCWs were always right there with me. I even wrote a thread attempting to extoll their virtues, though most vehemently disagreed with me.

Now, with 6th, Fire Warriors are even better, with the changes to Rapid Fire and Overwatch. This Fireblade dude attached to a 12 man FCW squad is gonna be pretty boss I imagine.

Note: For any that are interested here is the link to the article I wrote regarding Fire Warriors,

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/354355.page

Who was running firewarriors around outside of d-fish? anyone, anyone? Hello?
Who didn't have pathfinders parked in cover using heavy markerlights? anyone, anyone? hello?
Who didn't have BS4 broadsides in ruins or behind and ADL? no ASS means, no move and shoot, or were others besides me walking their broadsides around? However, the new broadsides seem to have something similar to S&P so again, what change?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I typically don't run any of these configurations. My firewarriors and kroot are on foot because devilfish are so expensive, I don't run pathfinders because they are too static and force me to run devilfish, I run Broadsides with the ASS so they can move around, and I don't field the ADL (rather bring in allied air support if I need more AA). This is the type of playstyle I hope to avoid (save the no devilfish, those just need a price markdown). I am hoping the new dex will maintain a mobile playstyle, hence why I dread loss of vehicle multitracker in particular (obviously if it is substituted with something else that does the same thing, then it really hasn't been lost).

I think it's actually the opposite result. Don't get me wrong I like the changes (mostly because I just want changes), but honestly it reduces the mobile aspect of the army.

- Receive +1 shot when staying stationary when firing rifle or carbine. Reduce mobility for sure.
- Supporting Fire: We now need to keep a majority of our units closer together to make best use of their firepower, seems like a reduction in mobility since we are reduced to the speed of the slowest unit to maintain this formation. Firewarrior are slow for sure, especially if maintaining still for extra firepower.
- Rumored loss of Ability for our tanks to fire "as if they were fast"

None of these seem to make me think the army is headed to a more mobile gunline, I feel like we are headed toward a more IG type gunline. But I'm OK with the changes, I just want the codex to change and bring bout new tactics

What you have to remember is that 3 Fireblades take up an HQ slot, therefore, a great many players will opt to not take them BECAUSE they plan to keep the mobility that they've been using and that slot is better used on other options. The mobile option is as viable as ever, only now they get Supporting Fire just in case they're not quite fast enough.
The only thing these new rules change is that now we HAVE to option to play the stationary gun line more effectively than ever, if we want to. Or some synergistic combination of mobile and stationary.

I'm betting that the gimped tank rumor was brought to us by the same people who told us that there's definitely an enormous Kroot monster in the new dex... Which was confirmed to be a blatant prevarication.

This is the Tau. Mobile heavy firepower is kinda their thing. Personally, I'm not worried.

The Broadside:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

katfude wrote:
Devilfish get a lot of hate but I like mine, especially with 3+ cover almost all the time. A reduction in points and a firepoint or two would be very welcome, though, especially with all the new toys that will be competing for points.

Hopefully you still can.
Unfortunately it appears that d-pods are only going to give +1 coversave. And knowing GW it's not gonna be 5pts anymore. Probly closer to 10-20.

 mh_mini wrote:
The Broadside:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

katfude wrote:
Devilfish get a lot of hate but I like mine, especially with 3+ cover almost all the time. A reduction in points and a firepoint or two would be very welcome, though, especially with all the new toys that will be competing for points.

Hopefully you still can.
Unfortunately it appears that d-pods are only going to give +1 coversave. And knowing GW it's not gonna be 5pts anymore. Probly closer to 10-20.

with the 2 editions that have pasts, maybe the base cost will be lower too. It might come to the same cost anyway.

With how the prices are shaping up to be, I guess I'll have to decide between some Tau and a Borderlands Diamond-Plated Loot Chest. Decisions, decisions.

Borderlands what now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just seen it. Averting my eyes.

Carry on.

 Liquid Squid wrote:
With how the prices are shaping up to be, I guess I'll have to decide between some Tau and a Borderlands Diamond-Plated Loot Chest. Decisions, decisions.

Everyone knows those things are just filled with crappy Hyperion white pistols every time you open them.

 Ovion wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

Phanixis wrote:

I think it's actually the opposite result. Don't get me wrong I like the changes (mostly because I just want changes), but honestly it reduces the mobile aspect of the army.

- Receive +1 shot when staying stationary when firing rifle or carbine. Reduce mobility for sure.
- Supporting Fire: We now need to keep a majority of our units closer together to make best use of their firepower, seems like a reduction in mobility since we are reduced to the speed of the slowest unit to maintain this formation. Firewarrior are slow for sure, especially if maintaining still for extra firepower.
- Rumored loss of Ability for our tanks to fire "as if they were fast"

None of these seem to make me think the army is headed to a more mobile gunline, I feel like we are headed toward a more IG type gunline. But I'm OK with the changes, I just want the codex to change and bring bout new tactics

As more updated rumors have been coming in I am becoming more optimistic about the upcoming Tau codex, but this is what I truly fear the Tau codex might be. If I wanted to play IG, I would play IG. I want to play Tau, and that means continually moving around the battlefield, especially with the suits and the hovertanks. Granted, the first two bullets points are technically just buffs we are forfeiting by not playing static, which is not the end of the world because the choice is still their to play mobile. But that third rumor suggest our tanks will be hamstrung, losing the ability to effectively fire at all if they move over 6", which I find abhorrent. The suits should not be the only mobile ground based element of the army, I loved the fact that the tanks could keep pace with them and support them.

I'm confused. How has much of anything changed?

Who was running firewarriors around outside of d-fish? anyone, anyone? Hello?
I do. I tend to run at least 6x6 Firewarriors, and haven't used D.Fish in quite a while. (Since I stopped using my Pathfinders.)
Infact, that it looks like we get a Firewarrior Commander, meaning can do a pure Firewarrior army makes me very happy.
Who didn't have pathfinders parked in cover using heavy markerlights? anyone, anyone? hello?
Who didn't have BS4 broadsides in ruins or behind and ADL? no ASS means, no move and shoot, or were others besides me walking their broadsides around? However, the new broadsides seem to have something similar to S&P so again, what change?
Crisis suits and stealth suits haven't changed.
Piranha's are still fast

The only thing that makes anything seem like it might be slower is the loss of making thing fire as if fast, but who knows if there isn't a piece of wargear or a special rule that just flat out let a tank fire all of its weapons. Hell, back in 5th edition hammerheads and D-fish lost 6" of movement thanks to defensive weapons nerf. I really don't see how this has slowed down much of anything.

Now you have a few rules that seem to benifit the tau if they stay closeish together. But with the nerfs to charging, multi-charging, and now supped up overwatch, maybe it wont be such a bad thing to keep your guys a little closer together. DA players don't seem to mind huddling together to get bennies from banners and what not. Hell, it might even be a boon as now you get even better bennies when you try to focus more of your force on a single part of the enemy army. Tau never had an all for me and screw you guys play style. The idea of a deathstar (unless you count Farsight's entourage) is non-existant for tau. We have historically had to keep our guys working in small groups together.

I see it not as a lack of mobility, but a much better representation of small unit tactics and unit assists.

But again, we don't know the whole story yet. Looking forward to it. However, that Tau unit with the commander and extra shot seems like it would be a great forward unit. Two shots out to 30" per guy, 3 shots out to 15, 3 shots when ultimately charged, and then everyone around also helping in. Not to mention the unit is wounding T4 and lower on a 2+. Hell, wounding Thunderwolves on a 3+. Now thats scary.

I mean, I'm only keeping one eye on the rumours, and mostly skimming stuff, preferring to wait for the codex in hand, but I love my Firewarriors, and they've served me well!

My Fire Wariors roll deep.