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 Cyporiean wrote:
Adjusting some Resource Costs on Zabar:
Unit - F/L/G
Hyenas - 5/0/0
Shaka - 5/5/0
Corsair - 5/0/5
Veldt - 10/0/0

Well, that really opens things back up. Now its time to go back to the book and so what fun stuff I can put together with these new numbers.


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 RiTides wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Galen wrote:At this point I don’t necessarily want to say Zabar is weak or suffering competitively from this issue, though I am wary of the possibility,

Don't tell RiTides that... his Hamsters were massacred by the Shaka

The shaka-wave build with hogs only costing 5 food is pretty scary good. A bad match-up for hamsters since the heavy cav rules mean the shakas are always going to get the charge, barring a trebuchet launched hamster ball or the hedgeknight ability (which is why I take those, to try to get the charge with hamsters). Not sure if the heavy cav rules have remained the same in 2nd edition but they were downright scary...

The effectiveness of the Shakka and Hyenas are hard to gauge on paper so I didn't want to state that they were overpriced, just that Zabar lists as a whole were awkward to build. Now I need to figure out who to con into playing a test game, and If I have the right base sizes at home for proxie.

I know what you mean, I looked at the Otter Ashigaru when I first started playing, and was like, "honestly? I don't feel threatened by them." And then Cy destroyed me with three of them

That's what I like about the game (before I started helping with it) was that things on paper that seemed "less effective" often weren't. Though to be fair, I've yet to see an outright "bad" model in the game.

Remember even if you don't have the correct models, we do provide base size templates you can print out

 WhiteRoo wrote:
My original question about template attack aiming was if you can aim it to nothing. Maybe you want it to deviate on the off-chamce that it will go further forward hitting someone who is out of the base range.

Or you want to hit Tatamata of Ribenguo with his Gajin being active. Since template attacks affect all models under them no matter being friendly or not, aiming a template to Tatamata will count as a hit(no deviation). The attacker doesn't attacks Tatamata directly - well he/she does it on purpose of course - but it's a template attack, you doesn't have to aim it at Tatamata, just where he is.

It looks like to me that you can smash the hiperion fire where Tatamata is, and it doesn't going to deviate. Also, cannons and Trebuches can be aimed at him.

Tamatama, and models with rules like his, cannot be the direct target of an attack. Templates can of course Deviate onto him, which won't auto-hit him but will deal damage to him if they do hit.

Edited In: We're going to reword Templates so that any weapon that is a Template does not need to pick a target. The center point just needs to be within range,but if there is not a model under the template it will just automatically deviate. So you could just throw your Jar of Hyperian Fire at the rock next to Tamatama.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

What happens if some unit starts it's activation on the hyperion fire? I guess it has to roll Vy check to see if it can stop the flames, but it stands in fire...

If you failed the Fire Test at the beggining of the turn, no change.. You're still on Fire.
If you passed the Fire Test at the beggining of the turn, you're on Fire again.

 WhiteRoo wrote:

Can you stack fire for more off-turn damage? Like having two Vandalands Warlord on Sabotage and flame up the same squad twice? I think they will have to roll Vy against both, but they will only have to roll Vy once when they going to activate. How this works with poison?

No, you're either on Fire or you aren't. I'll add a clarification for this in the next update.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
Got some more feedback which you might like. I'll type it up later when I'm not rattling around in a bus on a country road.

You tease.

Ugh, I've had zero spare time for this.

Is there any chance you could take the 'protected' lock off of the PDF so I can make notes on the move and in my spare time?

 Casey's Law wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
Got some more feedback which you might like. I'll type it up later when I'm not rattling around in a bus on a country road.

You tease.

Ugh, I've had zero spare time for this.

Is there any chance you could take the 'protected' lock off of the PDF so I can make notes on the move and in my spare time?

Kindle and smart phones?

I'm on Android if that's what you're asking.

 Casey's Law wrote:


Is there any chance you could take the 'protected' lock off of the PDF so I can make notes on the move and in my spare time?

Not sure what exactly you want?

The Watermark is going to stay on, but you should be fully able to Copy/Paste & Print the PDF.

A little gift for Whiteroo.

This will be included in the next WargameVault update, but I want to wait until I get a few factions done before spaming that out to everyone.

So while reading through, a few things occurred to me. Most important of which is that I freaking love the humour throughout it all.


Since I haven't had a chance to play yet, all I can comment on so far is that your work seems to be remarkably low on spelling errors and what not. I'm not sure if you want help with this, but here are the few things I could find as well as some possible wording issues.

Page 4; Grey Box; does the Dozen need to be capitalised? It's not in the terms section so I don't think it does.

Page 7; 3rd column; Test needs to be bolded
; 3rd column; X stat; You say that they automatically fail, and then the example says that they are unable to make attacks. If there are any special rules which activate on an attempted attack (even a failed one) then the distinction between those two (automatically failing and unable to attempt) makes a difference.

Page 8; 2nd and 3rd column; Justification issues with the text for the first line of several rules

Page 10; How do you choose table edges? You set up terrain, and then it's just 'choose a table edge'. Who gets first choice? Or do you decide that before terrain? If that is the case, it should be moved before the placing terrain.

Page 11; the Each in the final paragraph doesn't need to be capitalised

More to follow, my lecture is picking up again

Thanks Motyak, I've gone and fixed those.

To the best of my knowledge there are no abilities that trigger on an attempted attack.

The page 8 issue is being a little difficult with the way InDesign handles justification, but I'll get it dealt with eventually.

On Choosing table edges, what is folks preferred way of doing that? Rolling a Die? Youngest Picks? Knife Fight?

Monkey knife fight works for me, but then again we don't all have access to trained chimps.

Third party setting up terrain after you pick sides works in some cases, but there isn't always a third party present, so dice is probably best. But that's just my opinion.

 Casey's Law wrote:
I'm on Android if that's what you're asking.

I'm saying that there are ways to put pdfs on to mobile devices, that's all

 Cyporiean wrote:
On Choosing table edges, what is folks preferred way of doing that? Rolling a Die? Youngest Picks? Knife Fight?

Most of the time, we place it casually, then rol off and the winner either pick his edge, or choose who go first. In an alternating activation game, we just roll off. Or if one party set the board, the other pick his edge.

Page 12; 'If a slain or fleeing Model creates a ‘gap’ in Cohesion for a Squad, to Activate the remaining Squad on their next Activation, their total movement is reduced by 2” and the player may move the minimum distance required to place them back into Cohesion.'

This sentence seems a bit clunky. How about;

'Cohesion can only be broken if a Model is slain or is fleeing. During the Squad's next activation phase, their total movement is reduced by 2", and the player may move the minimum distance to place them back in Cohesion.'

Also, does a loss of Cohesion affect actions?

Page 13; You don't really specify what happens on 0 for stats, so perhaps Rush should change the stats to X for the turn?

Up to page 17 now. I'm really liking how these rules read, I'm probably going to proxy a game against myself with 40k figs when I get home from uni.

You would be better off with Warmachine and Hordes figs, as the bases are the same size

Trenchers shall be bulldogs, the Sniper will be Sharpe. I mean Sean. It'll be fun.

 motyak wrote:

Page 12; 'If a slain or fleeing Model creates a ‘gap’ in Cohesion for a Squad, to Activate the remaining Squad on their next Activation, their total movement is reduced by 2” and the player may move the minimum distance required to place them back into Cohesion.'

This sentence seems a bit clunky. How about;

'Cohesion can only be broken if a Model is slain or is fleeing. During the Squad's next activation phase, their total movement is reduced by 2", and the player may move the minimum distance to place them back in Cohesion.'

Also, does a loss of Cohesion affect actions?

I'll clear it with Matt before changing the rewording, but we should be able to clear things up.

Just a Speed Reduction if you choose to bring the squad back together.

 motyak wrote:

Page 13; You don't really specify what happens on 0 for stats, so perhaps Rush should change the stats to X for the turn?

We'll clarify it, but 0 in a stat just means you don't add anything to the dice roll, as opposed to X Stat's auto-fail.

Page 22; Hero's equipment question, do they keep their level 1 equipment when they get to level 2, or is it a replacement system

Page 23; So enemies can charge anywhere within 2" of your model which is B2B with the wall and as long as they hit the wall, they are B2B with your model

Items and all that; I'm leaving this alone because I haven't played yet so I can't really comment, but I do have another question, can anyone buy any item? Within their restrictions for armour and shields and what not. Or are they limited to the upgrade options in unit listings (like the weasel fusilier has an axe as an upgrade option)

That's the last of the stuff I came across in my first glance, and these last ones are just queries about how the game works, not errors of any kind.

Cyporiean wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:

Is there any chance you could take the 'protected' lock off of the PDF so I can make notes on the move and in my spare time?

Not sure what exactly you want?
The Watermark is going to stay on, but you should be fully able to Copy/Paste & Print the PDF.

Alfndrate wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
I'm on Android if that's what you're asking.

I'm saying that there are ways to put pdfs on to mobile devices, that's all

Yeh I've got the PDF on my phone fine, I'd like to be able to add annotations though. Is the digital watermark the thing that's stopping me? Is there a work around?

 motyak wrote:
Page 12; 'If a slain or fleeing Model creates a ‘gap’ in Cohesion for a Squad, to Activate the remaining Squad on their next Activation, their total movement is reduced by 2” and the player may move the minimum distance required to place them back into Cohesion.'

Also, there is no flee anymore.

Thanks for the cards!




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Are critical hits degrade the armor?

Critical hits ignore armor in terms of damage, but do they degrade the armor for the attack stacking?

For example, if I crit with a pike ( 2 DE 1 AP) on something with Heavy Armor(5 AR) and like 7 VY, will the target stays at 5 VY, 4AR or 5 VY 2 AR?

Similar for lucky hits. One point of damage will be applied but is that a +1 damage or will that reduces the damage the armor takes?

The book doesn't seems to answer this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Feedback from the 2.0.4 rulebook.

I'd suggest to highlight the texts of "Step 1", "Step 2" and so on on the siege machines section.

I'd suggest to add a little description to the mission types that summarizes what is the mission is about, like "During an objective Destruction mission the defender do it's best to protect an objective while the Attacker tries to destroy it."
This would help the overall reading experience because until you read all the text of the mission type you have no idea what is it about.

The text of the Killpoint Mission still uses the terms "hard/soft cover"

I would like to suggest to give victory point rewards to players after slain enemy heroes when determining the victor on a Killpoint mission. If your hero(es) weights nothing in terms of victory points they will become both your strongest unit and the least important target which is an interesting mechanic to be sure, but it feels weird to me.

This would change so much on low resource number games when your hero is is the most badass thing in the field.

No Powder Keg Mission? I made the kegs and everything!

During an objective destruction mission the defender gets 50 points more resource and after that 100 points more of fortifications. Is this 100 gold and 100 lumber, or 100 points of general resource? I think it's the latest. but if it is, I don't find where the book describes the "general resources".

Also the bonus general resource doesn't scale with the resource limit, which would help playing this mission type on lower resource limits.

I'd suggest the restructure of the text here because the attacker's bonus is described in the pre-game section while the defender's bonus is described both on the pre-game and the setup sections. It's just hard to follow.

Reading further I would suggest an "Attackers bonus resources" and a "Defender's bonus resources" sections. Also, "Deployment rules for the Attacker" and "Deployment for the Defender", because when I will try to setup a game I would need those sections separated.

On Last Stand the resource limit should scale for higher or lover resource game. 100 points of difference is not much on a 300 point game while it equals the combined armies of an 50 point game.

The missions in the tournament packet and the missions in the book are not finalized by any means. We're still working on those.

Also we've yet to "translate" the missions from 1st ed to 2nd ed. They're on our list of things to do.

motyak wrote:
Page 22; Hero's equipment question, do they keep their level 1 equipment when they get to level 2, or is it a replacement system

Models keep any previous equipment when upgrading, including Heroes.

motyak wrote:Page 23; So enemies can charge anywhere within 2" of your model which is B2B with the wall and as long as they hit the wall, they are B2B with your model

Its meant to be the other side of the wall, but yes.

motyak wrote:Items and all that; I'm leaving this alone because I haven't played yet so I can't really comment, but I do have another question, can anyone buy any item? Within their restrictions for armour and shields and what not. Or are they limited to the upgrade options in unit listings (like the weasel fusilier has an axe as an upgrade option)

Models get any equipment that is listed as 'Standard Equipment' for free, and can only purchase equipment that is listed as 'Upgrade Equipment'

Heroes and Exemplars may freely purchase Accessories.

WhiteRoo wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Page 12; 'If a slain or fleeing Model creates a ‘gap’ in Cohesion for a Squad, to Activate the remaining Squad on their next Activation, their total movement is reduced by 2” and the player may move the minimum distance required to place them back into Cohesion.'

Also, there is no flee anymore.

Thanks for the cards!

The Flee Charge Reaction still exists, but you are right in that likely wouldn't loose cohesion from it.

WhiteRoo wrote:
Are critical hits degrade the armor?

No, they bypass it completely.

WhiteRoo wrote:Similar for lucky hits. One point of damage will be applied but is that a +1 damage or will that reduces the damage the armor takes?

A Lucky Hit deals 1 DE to the target's VY regardless of how much Armor is left, as long as you haven't dealt any damage to the target's VY in this phase. This does not reduce the armor further.

WhiteRoo wrote:I'd suggest to highlight the texts of "Step 1", "Step 2" and so on on the siege machines section.

Doable.

 Cyporiean wrote:


A Lucky Hit deals 1 DE to the target's VY regardless of how much Armor is left, as long as you haven't dealt any damage to the target's VY in this phase. This does not reduce the armor further.

I don't get this one.

So if you Lucky Hit with Pike(2 DE 1 AP) someone who is at 5 AR 7 VY, it goes down to 3 AR, 6 VY?

As AP applies then the 2 DE hit would further reduce the armor, but it is a Lucky Hit so the 2 DE gets distributed to the AR and VY. The Lucky Hit applies 1 DE to VY and the remaining 1 DE goes to the armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the AP value of a Critical Hit does reduces the armor of the defender, right?

So there's no way to annotate?

I don't want to download a bypass 'cause it seems a bit shifty but I do like to add notes so I might have to anyway.

AP reduces Armor automatically.

So 5AR is now 4AR
One Pikes hit this target, it's lucky.
It does a total of 2DE, the target is at 2 AR and has lost no VY. They effect from Lucky Hit applies and the target takes 1DE to its VY.

 Casey's Law wrote:
So there's no way to annotate?

I don't want to download a bypass 'cause it seems a bit shifty but I do like to add notes so I might have to anyway.

Without Adobe Acrobat (not Acrobat reader) I don't know of a way to edit pdf files... You may have to take a notebook with you and jot your notes like that....

 Cyporiean wrote:
AP reduces Armor automatically.

So 5AR is now 4AR
One Pikes hit this target, it's lucky.
It does a total of 2DE, the target is at 2 AR and has lost no VY. They effect from Lucky Hit applies and the target takes 1DE to its VY.

So the target would end up from 5 AR 7 VY to 2 AR 6 VY.

Right?

(In other words... A face value of 9 of an attack roll grants that attack "1 DE, ignores all armor" on top of the base damage IF the DE of this attack is completely soaked up by the defenders armor)

Also, if the defender has no armor, then Critical and Lucky has no additional effect, right?

 WhiteRoo wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
AP reduces Armor automatically.

So 5AR is now 4AR
One Pikes hit this target, it's lucky.
It does a total of 2DE, the target is at 2 AR and has lost no VY. They effect from Lucky Hit applies and the target takes 1DE to its VY.

So the target would end up from 5 AR 7 VY to 2 AR 6 VY.

Right?

(In other words... A face value of 9 of an attack roll grants that attack "1 DE, ignores all armor" on top of the base damage IF the DE of this attack is completely soaked up by the defenders armor)

Also, if the defender has no armor, then Critical and Lucky has no additional effect, right?

If your attacks don't reduce the armor of the model to 0 in that phase, then a lucky hit deals 1 DE regardless of remaining armor. Critical hits ignore all armor and do the DE listed on the Weapon. If you hit a target with a lucky hit that has no armor, you deal damage as normal. Same with Crits.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
So there's no way to annotate?

I don't want to download a bypass 'cause it seems a bit shifty but I do like to add notes so I might have to anyway.

Without Adobe Acrobat (not Acrobat reader) I don't know of a way to edit pdf files... You may have to take a notebook with you and jot your notes like that....

Adobe Reader for Android is fully capable of adding annotations. The problem is the file is 'protected' which stops me using that tool. Can you remove that status?

 Alfndrate wrote:

If your attacks don't reduce the armor of the model to 0 in that phase, then a lucky hit deals 1 DE regardless of remaining armor. Critical hits ignore all armor and do the DE listed on the Weapon. If you hit a target with a lucky hit that has no armor, you deal damage as normal. Same with Crits.

What I'm trying to figure out is where that 1 DE comes from. Is it 1 DE from the weapon's damage that gets trough armor but in turn doesn't degrades it(so the total damage* is the same just the distribution is different) , or is it basically +1 bonus damage(as the total damage is one point higher)?

*total damage: Combined Armor and Vitality reduction from this attack.

So far it looks like to me, it is bonus damage.