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2013/04/13 23:33:36
Subject: Re:What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Honestly I'm surprised that GW was even at Gencon. GW has always had a minimal convention presence. They have always claimed everyone knows them, no need to go to these shows.
If that's true, then it's no surprise they appear to be operating in the 19th century.
I mean, seriously, do you hear presidents and prime ministers come election time saying "well, everyone's heard of me, no need to bother?"
No, because public relations is an ongoing cycle which has an undefinable, intangible but important role in maintaining your relationship with your consumer base.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
d-usa wrote: So basically return to their original business model?
Eh?
I think that the reference is to before GW and Citadel Miniatures became a single company.
GW made games.
Citadel made miniatures.
Neither owed their corporate souls to anonymous shareholders, Kirby was not yet a blot upon the horizon.
The world was a simpler, happier place.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/14 02:23:47
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
GW was a major founder of Citadel all along, but not sole owner. That changed in the late eighties, early nineties, If I recall correctly.
Then came 1991 and the management buyout....
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/14 07:30:54
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Sorry Auld, but I read your post as if it were a list of events, the last event being "The Auld Grump". Like "First they were separate, then they merged into one company, then came 1991 and then the management buying... and then... The Auld Grump!"
The question you have to ask yourself is-- is GW different? Or is the community's response to GW different?
The better question you should be asking is is that is the response due to GW's actions and lack or responses, and compare and contrast them to other companies and their responses and why they get different responses.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kingsley wrote: The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.
Not really, only to you. For other folks, taking away my ability to shop in my fluffy slippers for their product is a real complaint. I can get any book, movie or model OTHER then GW from the confort of my home. But GW took that away.
GW spent over a decade harping on the value of converting your models, and showed a wide variety of pictures.......then took away the bit service I enjoyed since the early 90's. Yet another problem.
I can go on if you like.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kingsley wrote: .
For Troops, Guard, Sisters, and Tyranids went up. Dæmons, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights, and in practice Orks went down. Everyone else stayed more or less the same or went up or down depending on options..
No on orks. They use to come in larger boxes then 10. DE I'd argue no as well. Daemons, necrons and GK only due to the move to plastic, not because the old model boxes went down.
-Accelerated release schedule updating people's armies to the new edition at a greatly increased pace
Yes but at the price of rules being slightl;y more shoddy and the fact you do not know whats coming out till the week of the release.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/14 14:38:59
Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers...
2013/04/14 14:44:53
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
This is a pattern. You do not show up to one of the largest events that represents your product unprepared.
To act like a garage company trying to break into the industry instead of a multimillion dollar corporation using some of their profits at least for Marketing/Public Relations is unacceptable.
They made a decision on showing up. They should act like it meant something.
Are you referring to GenCon or ACD? GenCon is always more about the entire gaming industry than just tabletop miniatures. Because you know who else doesn't go to GenCon? Reaper Miniatures. Are they arrogant and unprepared because they don't go GenCon? No, because everyone knows them at GenCon. They focus on shows where people do not know about them.
Reaper goes to Gencon, they didn't go last year because of a scheduling issues, but they usually have a pretty big space.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sorry Auld, but I read your post as if it were a list of events, the last event being "The Auld Grump". Like "First they were separate, then they merged into one company, then came 1991 and then the management buying... and then... The Auld Grump!"
It made you sound far more ominous.
And soon...
My plan will be complete!
The... Auld... Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/14 15:19:28
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Pretty sure they also had a presence at GenCon even though they were at Pax this past year...IIRC they had paint and take being run as well as a banner in the convention hall.
Though comparing GW to Reaper is sort of an odd way to go. Reaper communicates quite freely with their customers and is not afraid of addressing criticism head on.
Sean_OBrien wrote: Pretty sure they also had a presence at GenCon even though they were at Pax this past year...IIRC they had paint and take being run as well as a banner in the convention hall.
Though comparing GW to Reaper is sort of an odd way to go. Reaper communicates quite freely with their customers and is not afraid of addressing criticism head on.
If anything, the two companies are exact opposites of each other. Every retailer I have talked with say Reaper is a pleasure to work with as well.
Well if they were there, then they didn't have a booth advertised at GenCon 2012 and discussions on the Reaper forum is they won't be at GenCon 2013. So by the logic being tossed out here about ignoring conventions and having shoddy boths, they are an arrogant idiotic company that operates in the 19th century. They don't think the largest game convention in the US is worth their time and is below them? We all know that is not the case, but my point is that people are painting with large brushes and ignore other companies that do the same thing or make up excuses for them. As I said, people have agendas to portray companies in the worst light.
That is why I criticized the first reference Adam posted. Came off as having a clear agenda and makes it easy to dismiss. We a relying on their observations to make opinions and if they come off as already biased, if you have to question those observations.
2013/04/14 23:51:24
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Having a presence does not mean having a booth. Reaper, was IIRC, a sponsor - so they had there banner hanging...which is as good as a bill board. More importantly though, they also sponsor one of the larger "paint and takes" with miniatures and paints - which of course gets their products into the hands of a variety of people. They didn't have a vendor booth.
This year, they haven't said mum about GenCon or Pax West. They are planning on hitting origins - but only if they manage to actually get everything shipped for their KS in time.
The big take away though as far as I was concerned was this:
They made a decision on showing up. They should act like it meant something.
GW chose to show up and did a poor showing. Reaper stayed home (well - went to a different convention) and still was probably better served by donating a couple of cases of stock to the paint and take and flying their banner in the hall. They left the selling to different vendors who show up and carry their stock (no doubt The Warstore had more than a few Reaper products on hand to sell to anyone who wanted to buy them).
2013/04/15 02:10:53
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Sean_OBrien wrote: Having a presence does not mean having a booth. Reaper, was IIRC, a sponsor - so they had there banner hanging...which is as good as a bill board. More importantly though, they also sponsor one of the larger "paint and takes" with miniatures and paints - which of course gets their products into the hands of a variety of people. They didn't have a vendor booth.
This year, they haven't said mum about GenCon or Pax West. They are planning on hitting origins - but only if they manage to actually get everything shipped for their KS in time.
The big take away though as far as I was concerned was this:
They made a decision on showing up. They should act like it meant something.
GW chose to show up and did a poor showing. Reaper stayed home (well - went to a different convention) and still was probably better served by donating a couple of cases of stock to the paint and take and flying their banner in the hall. They left the selling to different vendors who show up and carry their stock (no doubt The Warstore had more than a few Reaper products on hand to sell to anyone who wanted to buy them).
Hmmm... don't see Reaper among the "Thanks to our 2012 Sponsors" on the Gencon webpage. If they were, Gencon isn't advertising it. Plus, Reaper dumped Gencon for a video game show.
Neither of those divisions seem to have access to GW's funds and first time back at a major show, going full out and not performing means they will not come back again for several years till management is convinced it might be worth it again. Going in light and doing decently then justifies returning next year with more effort/resources. It was a toe back in the water. To argue they need to dive back in is naive.
So again, an agenda and a bias in presentation leaving out certain details so a company looks worse.
2013/04/15 02:18:32
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
I can confirm that the only thing for sale at the GenCon booth were Black Library books (pretty much all of the non-limited edition books) including the Event-Only compilation book Games Day Anthology 2011/12, Forge World Event only models (40k and fantasy model), and a smattering of FW kits. Nearly all of the upgrades that were available at the time (rhino doors, land raider doors, shoulder pads) and some other kits. No GW kits that I recall.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/15 02:18:50
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
2013/04/15 02:47:25
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Sean_OBrien wrote: Having a presence does not mean having a booth. Reaper, was IIRC, a sponsor - so they had there banner hanging...which is as good as a bill board. More importantly though, they also sponsor one of the larger "paint and takes" with miniatures and paints - which of course gets their products into the hands of a variety of people. They didn't have a vendor booth.
This year, they haven't said mum about GenCon or Pax West. They are planning on hitting origins - but only if they manage to actually get everything shipped for their KS in time.
The big take away though as far as I was concerned was this:
They made a decision on showing up. They should act like it meant something.
GW chose to show up and did a poor showing. Reaper stayed home (well - went to a different convention) and still was probably better served by donating a couple of cases of stock to the paint and take and flying their banner in the hall. They left the selling to different vendors who show up and carry their stock (no doubt The Warstore had more than a few Reaper products on hand to sell to anyone who wanted to buy them).
Hmmm... don't see Reaper among the "Thanks to our 2012 Sponsors" on the Gencon webpage. If they were, Gencon isn't advertising it. Plus, Reaper dumped Gencon for a video game show.
Neither of those divisions seem to have access to GW's funds and first time back at a major show, going full out and not performing means they will not come back again for several years till management is convinced it might be worth it again. Going in light and doing decently then justifies returning next year with more effort/resources. It was a toe back in the water. To argue they need to dive back in is naive.
So again, an agenda and a bias in presentation leaving out certain details so a company looks worse.
The corporation does not need any help on making itself look worse. Does fine by itself with little or no support from its white knights. A pattern has been set a long time ago. It's just more visible now. There will be those that will accept the fact that Games Workshop is not spending resources on Marketing/Public relations. And there will be those that won't.
That is fine by me as long as the conversation is civil then we have to agree to disagree.
Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-
"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".
Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?
You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
2013/04/15 13:48:40
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
So Reaper does the right thing by phoning it in at Gencon, GW fethed up by being there with their non standard specialist lines?
Im guessing probably all the independent retailers were carrying GWs standard rangesstuff (and probably a big proportion of the second hand section) at discount. I would seem like a fools errand to ship a lorry load of stock that everyone else will have at 20%+ at a convention where the audience will be made up of clued up customers - why bother preaching to the converted?
Now complaining about this sounds like a double standard to me.
GW were rightly lauded last year by starting to attend shows and conventions, now it is seen as another terrible GW incompetence?
Sheesh, some of you fellers read too much into everything.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2013/04/15 14:40:11
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
On the gaming floor, those were individuals, clubs or stores...no affiliation with GW. GWs only presence was with the vendor booth. Everything else was individual actions by hobbyists.
Reaper sponsored the speed painting charity, Gen Con painting competition, paint and takes and painting classes (collectively known as MHE).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding other vendors carrying stock, manufacturers have the exclusive right to sell at Gen Con. Most independents probably skipped on brining GW stock to the con as a result. The War Store had brought stock, but IIRC, they didnt actually know if they would be able to sell it until a week before hand.
There is a significant difference between the two, even before you consider the scale differences between the two companies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/15 14:52:10
2013/04/15 14:57:49
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
notprop wrote: So Reaper does the right thing by phoning it in at Gencon, GW fethed up by being there with their non standard specialist lines?
Im guessing probably all the independent retailers were carrying GWs standard rangesstuff (and probably a big proportion of the second hand section) at discount. I would seem like a fools errand to ship a lorry load of stock that everyone else will have at 20%+ at a convention where the audience will be made up of clued up customers - why bother preaching to the converted?
Now complaining about this sounds like a double standard to me.
GW were rightly lauded last year by starting to attend shows and conventions, now it is seen as another terrible GW incompetence?
Sheesh, some of you fellers read too much into everything.
GW shouldn't be at conventions to sell stuff, they have stockists to do that for them and they won't be able to compete with prices. Unless GW decided to offer special convention discounts, but we all know that won't happen.
But GW could be there with demo games, actual advertising and branding. They could try to get new folks started in the game. I am sure that the stockists there would be happy if new people showed up to buy GW stuff.
They could also get current players excited by actually releasing news. What better place than a convention to release WIP of upcoming releases and to drum up excitement with the fanbase.
2013/04/15 14:59:54
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Hasbro buy GW...then merge it with their WotC division...
I hope if WotC gets the IP they don't try to turn it into some new and even stupider version of magic or D&D.
Personally not a fan of WotC but if they do things correctly i'm all for it.
Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts
"In short there is no Order only Chaos eternal so lament and be quelled with fear if you serve the False Emperor or accept the gifts bestowed by the pantheon of the four gods and rejoice as the galaxy burns." - Unknown Wordbearer
2013/04/15 15:11:17
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Sean_OBrien wrote: On the gaming floor, those were individuals, clubs or stores...no affiliation with GW. GWs only presence was with the vendor booth. Everything else was individual actions by hobbyists.
Reaper sponsored the speed painting charity, Gen Con painting competition, paint and takes and painting classes (collectively known as MHE).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding other vendors carrying stock, manufacturers have the exclusive right to sell at Gen Con. Most independents probably skipped on brining GW stock to the con as a result. The War Store had brought stock, but IIRC, they didnt actually know if they would be able to sell it until a week before hand.
There is a significant difference between the two, even before you consider the scale differences between the two companies.
So a couple cases of paint is all it takes to make Reaper abandoning the grandfather of all game cons to be forgiven? Given GenCon isn't listing them as a sponsor, I don't think GenCon has.
The video in the link I posted showed a couple stores with GW on display for sale.
2013/04/15 22:02:33
Subject: Re:What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Part of the matter is that when Reaper does do a con they do it well. They are friendly and approachable, and actually *GASP!* answer questions!
GW, with a much larger company, showed up and put on a lackluster display. When asked for information, answer gave they none.
There is showing up a con and there is making a showing at a con.
Folks had hopes that since GW is returning to cons that they might do something memorable... instead....
If you frequent the Reaper forums then you will know that Reaper did catch some flak over not showing for Gen Con - instead of turning off their forums and leaving the phone off of the hook they addressed the reasons on the forums, and replied to questions asked in that regard.
And that, at the core, is the biggest difference - Reaper is willing to hold a dialog. GW circles the wagons and goes silent, hoping that the Injuns will go away.
Reaper also has a great deal less in the way of negative baggage to carry around - most of the folks dealing with Reaper are happy with their responses. When Reaper had a price hike a few years ago they posted the reasons for it - complete with a chart of tin prices.... (If you did not know that Reaper is run by an accountant then all it would take is looking at that post to inform you of that fact....)
***
WotC started down the same road that GW has been taking* - and business for 4e D&D continued to decline.
Unlike GW, WotC looked at that situation and took steps to remedy the situation.
Folks report that WotC - a bigger company than GW - has been open at professional conventions, and more than willing to talk to the owners of local game stores.
This did not prevent WotC from taking a potshot at a webcomic for having a plush rust monster toy....
But unlike GW they actually settled the matter - the rust monster plush is now available - and it didn't take two years and a reprimand from a judge to get there.
I may be annoyed at the fact that they did take a potshot, but they were open to negotiation.
GW... not so much.
The Auld Grump
*Telling folks that 4e wasn't in the works, right up until they announced the release date.... Dropping PDFs. Going silent on forums that were critical of WotC's decisions. Not listening to playtesters. Ridiculing critics.... They deserved to take one on the chin, regardless of the rules themselves.
*EDIT* For clarity... the comma is my friend....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/15 22:09:59
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/04/15 22:13:53
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Kingsley wrote: The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.
Not really, only to you. For other folks, taking away my ability to shop in my fluffy slippers for their product is a real complaint. I can get any book, movie or model OTHER then GW from the confort of my home. But GW took that away.
GW spent over a decade harping on the value of converting your models, and showed a wide variety of pictures.......then took away the bit service I enjoyed since the early 90's. Yet another problem.
I can go on if you like.
Let me...
Finecast crap...
Slow Codex updates.. to push people to buy new armies
Poorly done Power creep... to force people into getting a new army to stay competative...
No offical Tournament suport
Making White Dwarf into an advert magazine with little substance..
Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers..
Stopping open gaming in their stores (there are no veterans allowed at my local GW for example)..
Constant price hikes...
No offical Forums..
Removing lots of articles from their main site...
Instructing their store employes to aggressively target customers (most often Childrean, a despicable practice) Trying and push the latest product on them... (Many times when i whent into one of their stores, to buy something I got pestered if I had seen this or that and, arnt you going to buy this or that.. Until I told them the Shut the F up and leave me alone).
Abandoning many games.. Like Warhammer fantasy Roleplay, Mordheim and Blood Bowl...
We can go on if you like Kingsley... Because the list of wrongdoings is far from complete....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/04/15 22:18:24
2013/04/15 22:56:59
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Kingsley wrote: The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.
Not really, only to you. For other folks, taking away my ability to shop in my fluffy slippers for their product is a real complaint. I can get any book, movie or model OTHER then GW from the confort of my home. But GW took that away.
GW spent over a decade harping on the value of converting your models, and showed a wide variety of pictures.......then took away the bit service I enjoyed since the early 90's. Yet another problem.
I can go on if you like.
Let me...
Finecast crap...
Slow Codex updates.. to push people to buy new armies
Poorly done Power creep... to force people into getting a new army to stay competative...
No offical Tournament suport
Making White Dwarf into an advert magazine with little substance..
Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers..
Stopping open gaming in their stores (there are no veterans allowed at my local GW for example)..
Constant price hikes...
No offical Forums..
Removing lots of articles from their main site...
Instructing their store employes to aggressively target customers (most often Childrean, a despicable practice) Trying and push the latest product on them... (Many times when i whent into one of their stores, to buy something I got pestered if I had seen this or that and, arnt you going to buy this or that.. Until I told them the Shut the F up and leave me alone).
Abandoning many games.. Like Warhammer fantasy Roleplay, Mordheim and Blood Bowl...
We can go on if you like Kingsley... Because the list of wrongdoings is far from complete....
Just for that, I have to give you an Exalt my friend!
I have to say, GW has been getting worse, and still has the attitude that they think they are the only ones making this type of product (still can be argued that they are still the largest to a point, but that is slowly slipping away from how they A) Treat customers and/or potential customers like they are inferiors to them, or freeloaders if GW stuff is bought anywhere except their website.
B) Trying to police critisms about their product and how they act (The forums as you said and taking down their facebook page during the "Space Marine" debacle) )
Now I am not one for complaining about a business and that too much, I just want to play a game and hobby for heaven's sake, but if a business is going to treat me like that..... well I would just buy their damn product somewhere else from the second hand market or find substitutes for it.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
2013/04/15 23:33:42
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
Kingsley wrote: The so-called "decade of dickishness" is just a dumb phrase. First off, it seems like the real complaints started in 2009 and they just added the online sales thing in 2003 to make it seem like this had been going on forever. Second, practically any organization will look bad if you focus entirely on things that you don't like. You could just as well make a similar list with everything GW has done well across whatever period.
Not really, only to you. For other folks, taking away my ability to shop in my fluffy slippers for their product is a real complaint. I can get any book, movie or model OTHER then GW from the confort of my home. But GW took that away.
GW spent over a decade harping on the value of converting your models, and showed a wide variety of pictures.......then took away the bit service I enjoyed since the early 90's. Yet another problem.
I can go on if you like.
Let me...
Finecast crap...
Slow Codex updates.. to push people to buy new armies
Poorly done Power creep... to force people into getting a new army to stay competative...
No offical Tournament suport
Making White Dwarf into an advert magazine with little substance..
Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers..
Stopping open gaming in their stores (there are no veterans allowed at my local GW for example)..
Constant price hikes...
No offical Forums..
Removing lots of articles from their main site...
Instructing their store employes to aggressively target customers (most often Childrean, a despicable practice) Trying and push the latest product on them... (Many times when i whent into one of their stores, to buy something I got pestered if I had seen this or that and, arnt you going to buy this or that.. Until I told them the Shut the F up and leave me alone).
Abandoning many games.. Like Warhammer fantasy Roleplay, Mordheim and Blood Bowl...
We can go on if you like Kingsley... Because the list of wrongdoings is far from complete....
Just for that, I have to give you an Exalt my friend!
I have to say, GW has been getting worse, and still has the attitude that they think they are the only ones making this type of product (still can be argued that they are still the largest to a point, but that is slowly slipping away from how they A) Treat customers and/or potential customers like they are inferiors to them, or freeloaders if GW stuff is bought anywhere except their website.
B) Trying to police critisms about their product and how they act (The forums as you said and taking down their facebook page during the "Space Marine" debacle) )
Now I am not one for complaining about a business and that too much, I just want to play a game and hobby for heaven's sake, but if a business is going to treat me like that..... well I would just buy their damn product somewhere else from the second hand market or find substitutes for it.
Except for the complaints about high prices and the horrible product of finecast, the rest of the complaints listed in the quotes above barely amount to a hill of beans. Some of them dont even make any sense.
Nucflash wrote: Slow Codex updates.. to push people to buy new armies
This does not make any sense. You would want to release codexes faster not slower to push people to buy models.
Nucflash wrote: Poorly done Power creep... to force people into getting a new army to stay competative
Unless you are really dedictaed to tournaments this is just a nonissue as well. Besides codexes are rotated only after several years and people would raise hell if a codex came out that did not have some new and interesting models. Releasing new models that people want to buy is how they stay in business. Sure they could do a better job at writing rules but as a general criticism I just have to roll my eyes at it. In any event you dont have to buy an entire new army when your codex is renewed that is just exageration.
If you are highly competitive in any arena you are going to have to spend more money on your hobby or sport. That is not the fault of the manufacturer, it is the result that their will always be people that are willing to spend a lot of money for even a small advantage. If you cant deal with itthe heat, GTFO of the kitchen
Another nonissue and not likely to be strictly true. There are plenty of tournaments around. I really dont care who runs them and if GW isnt running them, then you can use proxies and non GW figures.
NEWS ALERT: YOUR FLGS PROBABLY DOES GET MODELS FROM GW FOR FREE THAT COULD BE USED AS TOURNAMENT SUPPORT.
I know for a fact that one of my local FLGS, which is really small gets models for free from GW as "product support" because he told me. He does not use them for tournament support he auctions them off to raise money for a charity. Now if this little one man hole in the wall shop is getting product support from GW, you can bet your own FLGS is also.
Nucflash wrote: Making White Dwarf into an advert magazine with little substance
So what? GW makes a product you dont like, dont buy it. Its not like they are fooling you into buying something that is different than advertised. Month after month it is aimed at rank one beginners. They are not obligated to make a magazine to fit any particular demographic. Who cares, the WWW has made the white dwarf obsolete, another nonissue that people like to put on their pile of GW angst.
Another nonissue, those forums were crap, heavily moderated and not worth bothering with. There are dozens of forums that support GW games, why should they waste time and money with a forum? The fact that GW does not have any official forum has zero negative impact on the games.
Nucflash wrote: Removing lots of articles from their main site
This is hardly worth caring about because of the proliferation of articles on the internet. Also, there are plenty of artists that are selling how to paint and other video guides on the internet, dozens of them have been advertised in recent years. So how is it that GW should be singled out for criticism but other people making the same kind oof products get a free pass? Anyway a lot of their painting articles that were removed used GW paints that have been renamed and reformulated. Seriously, just get over the deletion of a handful of articles that are duplicated elsewhere on the web.
Nucflash wrote: Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers
While I personally would not conduct business the way GW does, it is still their product and they have every right to distribute that product in the way they believe will make them the most money. I dont see a lot of threads bashing companies for doing kickstarters that cut out the FLGS and it seems hypocritical to me that if GW sneezes people come out of the wood work and cry that GW is spreading a pandemic flu that is going to kill the hobby.
Well I certainly would not take this approach, but GW is paying the rent and taxes on the store so they are entitled to manage their business the way they think will make them the most money. Unless you want to take some kind of highly intrusive stance on how people run a private business, whining constantly about how they should do it "your way" instead of "their way" does not have any real world validity. Because you do not have access to their numbers and other financial information, you are pretty much just back seat driving when you try and judge how someone else should best manage their business affairs.
Nucflash wrote: Instructing their store employes to aggressively target customers
LMAO at this. Maybe you are not old enough to have visited a car dealership. Aggressive sales people is just a fact for a lot of businesses, you need to develop a little thicker skin.
Nucflash wrote: Until I told them the Shut the F up and leave me alone
That was exceptionally rude, any sensible manager would have banished you from the premises immediately.
Nucflash wrote: Abandoning many games.. Like Warhammer fantasy Roleplay, Mordheim and Blood Bowl.
You are obviously clueless about what is and what is not supported. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has been licensed to Fantasy Flight Games and has a very good product line. Bloodbowl can be purchased from the GW website as can Mordheim and many warbands. This hardly counts as them being "abandoned". In fact you can even get the Mordheim rules for free from GW as a pdf even though they still sell the rulebook. Next time try a little harder and do some research.
Tanakosyke22 wrote: Trying to police critisms about their product and how they act (The forums as you said and taking down their facebook page during the "Space Marine" debacle) )
Any business is going to do whatever it can to manage its public image. The management of image is a multimillion dollar business. The fact that they took down their facebook page because it was being flooded with negativity was a perfectly sensible thing to do. The FB page really wasnt anything more than some free advertising and probably only reached people that already knew about GW.
carmachu wrote: taking away my ability to shop in my fluffy slippers for their product is a real complaint. I can get any book, movie or model OTHER then GW from the confort of my home. But GW took that away.
Your ability to shop online has not been taken away. I bet you $1000 dollars that their is a teenager living nearby you that can help you find the GW website and ebay where you can buy all this stuff from your house while wearing your fluffy slippers.
carmachu wrote: GW spent over a decade harping on the value of converting your models, and showed a wide variety of pictures.......then took away the bit service I enjoyed since the early 90's.
I enjoyed this service too but I do not have the childish notion that a company should continue a service that was costing them money instead of making money for them. I surely wish that I could call the Chevrolet dealer and get parts for a 1957 Chevy but I have no expectation for them to fullfill that request. In any event their are other manufacturers that sell their own custom made bits and third party resellers that sell GW bits. You are whining and crying over milk that has not even been spilled.
Some of you people remind me of a District Attorney that just piles on a hundred trivial or irrelevant duplicate charges against a defendant. Try sticking to issues that matter like quality control, pricing and sloppy rule writing. Just piling on all these silly and trivial complaints makes your case against GW look weaker not stronger.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Trying to police critisms about their product and how they act (The forums as you said and taking down their facebook page during the "Space Marine" debacle) )
Any business is going to do whatever it can to manage its public image. The management of image is a multimillion dollar business. The fact that they took down their facebook page because it was being flooded with negativity was a perfectly sensible thing to do. The FB page really wasnt anything more than some free advertising and probably only reached people that already knew about GW.
Not really, it shows they are not listening to the customers or at least trying to speak to them to convey the question it has in at least some sort of way shows that it is isolating itself from any type of feedback that can make itself better, rather if it is negative or constructive in anyway and improving relations with the customers. And for people knowing about GW? For Miniwargaming yes, because it is one that introduced it, but it is still relatively small compare to Hasbro (with the inclusion of WoTC) and the FB page could have been used to shoe the release of new products before they release (which is kind of useless since they only give a week or so before release, if I recall correctly, so I could be wrong on that since I have not bought a GW thing in three months...)
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
2013/04/16 02:10:02
Subject: What I saw from GW in a professional setting on 4/4/2013 (edited for clarity)
JWhex wrote: Except for the complaints about high prices and the horrible product of finecast, the rest of the complaints listed in the quotes above barely amount to a hill of beans. Some of them dont even make any sense.
"Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers."
JWhex wrote: Except for the complaints about high prices and the horrible product of finecast, the rest of the complaints listed in the quotes above barely amount to a hill of beans. Some of them dont even make any sense.
"Trying to stop global internet sales of their products, by forcing rules and regulations on independet retailers." This is great news!
Hill of beans indeed...
There you go H.B.M.C, now your armor is of the purest fan boi white...
New from games workshop, Fineman Arguments, the latest in defenses against naysayers that don't believe in the One True Hobby, whose prophet is Kirby
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/16 02:21:04
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