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Whether they like it or not? I can get behind that!

You're way too enthusiastic about that gif, BrookM.

Just out of curiosity... how many of your 24000 posts are that gif?

3425... 3426... 3427... crap, lost count.

 -iPaint- wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 fox-light713 wrote:
Ohh very nice. Lets just hope that the nazi lawyer's at GW doesn't shut it down.

Stupid, that's just stupid.

Agreed. What did that contribute to the conversation about the TGG Kickstarter or RH? There's a separate thread for Victoria's (quite stellar) work that this could have been posted to.

Now quick, before we get off topic, someone post a delicious gif.

~iPaint

*something something something....80%*

Well gee sorry, I saw a post from the previous page and was simply expressing my interests and fears of what might happen. Simply stumbled across it after a random search to see if there was any new's or rumors on SoB plastics as of late. What I did discover in my search is a small post by RH about the "The Orphanage of the Sisters of Eternal Mercy" and that they seem to be promising substitutes to use for a SoB army if they end up being in plastic, or at lease from some of the artwork that I've seen.

So on the topic of a future RH kickstarter some images that looks promising for SoB stand in's. Though I feel these have probably been posted multiple times already.

A Canoness?


count as Repentia

 TheDungen wrote:
I'm sorry but the fact that GW still use heroic proportions is no longer a viable reason to keep using heroic proportions. The industry is moving away from that and in time even gw will have to change with the times.

Uh.. yeah. While it's certainly good that more options exist now besides just heroic scale, that's not actually going to happen. You'll just have to stick to your preferred truescale models and deal with it.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
You're way too enthusiastic about that gif, BrookM.

Just out of curiosity... how many of your 24000 posts are that gif?

Heh, nah, my biggest rise in spam meaningful and thought provoking posts ocured after I joined the DCM forums. You may know me from such amazing threads such as "40k art" or my sporadic contributions to that one thread, you know, the biggest one in the DCM forums.

I want to keep hope though, I want to believe. I like to think that positive thought and not the shameless, outright despicable negativity as displayed by the Twitter Weaners, will ultimate give our creative diva overlords the incentive they need to finally release something.

Seriously though, whenever they mention that miniscule details don't match up and need to be reworked, this comes to mind:

You need to post that one in the Robotech Tactics thread. They have a specific use for it there.

I don't even want to know I think, that project has been nothing but drama from what I've glimpsed.

Oh, and this one's been a walk in the park?

Although from what I've heard Palladium are well desrving of any criticism they receive.

fox-light713: Mate, we're not trying to bring you down, but if they do decide to put TGG aside in favour of another KS, I expect there will be righteous fury left and right.

If they do decide to finish TGG first, then you can expect those SoBs a few years after GW releases theirs, to omo imas. And from the money they raised with TGG and their decision to stick with restic and metal (which makes sense for heroines, less for multi-pose troops, again, to omo imas) I think you can forget HIPS for the time being.

We could, of course, be pleasantly surprised.

I think it boils down to them having been a boutique experience in the past and a disconnect between what "troops" means in their minds and a (wider than they suspect) segment of the population.

So far, this is the worst one I've personally been in.

 BrookM wrote:
So far, this is the worst one I've personally been in.

I'm not sure I'd say it's the "worst" for me. In fact, I'm not sure I've had a bad KS experience yet. But it may happen.

This is definitely the best contender for "perfectionist syndrome" delaying communication about the project. Also, I think the build up to this KS was a bit overplayed, and most of the (my guess meaningful) legwork of sculpting the models was done after the funding period. Which is fine, but the 80% number thrown around so much during the pre-KS launch seems laughable at this point. I'd guess maybe 40% of the sculpting might have been done - dolls, weapons, faces were most likely there, but the actual details are probably what takes the longest amount of time. And they've told us many times they are always going back to old sculpts and touching them up.

RH may seem a bit high and mighty with their communication and update habits, but I'll forgive them that when the product arrives (which I hope will be the one redeeming thing from this KS - RH will have figured out how to get quality 3D models to market as miniatures faster than before - hopefully).

~iPaint

Agreed, experiences may vary from person to person when it comes down to the grand Kickstarter adventure.

So far only one project has been on schedule for me: Zombicide and I like to think I jumped off the CMoN bandwagon just before they took a massive gak on everybody with their many, many, many other KS projects.

I'm also waiting for Kingdom Death Monster to finally give us the promised goods, but feth it, we all know how I feel about that one, especially compared to how this is handled.

This is my first Kickstarter, so it's kind of my baseline. And since I get more communication, feedback, and interaction with RH than with any gaming company I've ever dealt with before, in any capacity, I put it in the 'positive' category.

EDIT: Although I was irked by a Kickstarter I chipped in on to help a friend, when they wouldn't let us just drive over and pick up the order, even though they were right down the block.

I'm honestly not sure if this, is the worst KS I've been in at least there are updates even if they are far and few between.

I've had books vanish, games on indefinite hold. So honestly at this time I consider this a better one.

From the outside looking in, this is not a bad KickStarter. It's certainly not a good one, but there's a lot of room between those points. RH are moving beyond slowly, but you are getting tangible evidence of quality progress. The models look very nice, but it's somewhat obvious that "80% done" was a gross exaggeration of their progress at the time. You still don't have a pledge manager (meaning you're months away from starting fulfillment) but you will supposedly be able to see exactly what you're spending money on.

So, there's good and bad to be found, but it doesn't seem like they're stringing their backers along with over-inflated promises; they're just slow, and kind of jerks about it. I'd rate it as a slightly below average KS, but nothing horrific yet. Still time to go south of course.

Almost every campaign I've backed has had some issue or other that would be intolerable in a normal consumer interaction with a vendor. However, backing a KS requires a bit of faith in the company involved (see also: why Robotech Tactics didn't make the cut here) so if you're not willing to accept the hiccups you can always wait for retail.

Some of the Iron Empire girls will look quite nice unless DFG Black Widows upstage them somehow...

DFG won't upstage in the hutzpah department and *sheer cinematic* poses and *oodles of details that make your eyes bleed* but it'll be a functional kit, that will mesh well with the Eisenkern aesthetics, and will be made of HIPS. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I could drink a gallon. With a lump and a drop of milk, please.

We've been told the pledge manager was incoming soon. But again, are we going to pledge on renders for what isn't Wave 1? Are we going to be allowed to keep a portion unallocated for other waves? If they are only renders, are they again going to change before they finally release them? So many questions.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
DFG won't upstage in the hutzpah department and *sheer cinematic* poses and *oodles of details that make your eyes bleed* but it'll be a functional kit, that will mesh well with the Eisenkern aesthetics, and will be made of HIPS. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I could drink a gallon. With a lump and a drop of milk, please.

They don't make your eyes bleed thankfully, but don't underestimate the range of poses available with the Eisenkern! Pretty sure Mark has said that the Black Widows will be substantially or fully compatible with the stormtrooper range - basic kit, accessory kit, command kit and support weapons kits. That's going to give an amazing amount of customization. The dual SMG Eisenkern would fit well in the "dynamic" poses offered by Raging Heroes, as would the vaulting trooper render. You and I shall drink copious quantities of this tea together I imagine.

(I just wanted another opportunity to post Dr Mathias Cowboy Eisenkern.

I'm happy I went in on RH still, and think I will mainly be getting RH troops, I won't be cashing out in the first wave. Poor communication and delays don't bother me anywhere near as much as low quality of models. Which is strange since I back Mantic pretty heavily ; p

Mantic gets away with it because of their Mongo Factor. Mantic seems to mean well, but... let's just say "Mantic pawn in game of life." You can't really be angry at Mantic so much as disappointed and a little embarrassed that you ever really expected so much.

RH are just arrogant bastards.



Oh, and for "gamers" who "use their models" DFG Black Widows will be superior to RH's Toughest Gals in every conceivable metric*.



*Except for affordability, where DFG's models will be more akin to advanced energy beings who make the TGG fight against Ninja Division Battloids on some hellish arena world.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Mantic gets away with it because of their Mongo Factor. Mantic seems to mean well, but... let's just say "Mantic pawn in game of life." You can't really be angry at Mantic so much as disappointed and a little embarrassed that you ever really expected so much.

RH are just arrogant bastards.



Oh, and for "gamers" who "use their models" DFG Black Widows will be superior to RH's Toughest Gals in every conceivable metric*.



*Except for affordability, where DFG's models will be more akin to advanced energy beings who make the TGG fight against Ninja Division Battloids on some hellish arena world.

Hmmm... I'd wager 300 quatloos on it!

What are these "Black Widows," they seem to have escaped my DFG radar.

~iPaint

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Except for affordability, where DFG's models will be more akin to advanced energy beings who make the TGG fight against Ninja Division Battloids on some hellish arena world.

Codex: Ninja Division Battloids, $75.

I wish my I'd wagered 300 quatloos on the newcomer instead of Robotech Tactics. We'll probably receive our battloids sometime after the next Codex: Squats. (But before Sisters of Battle.)


And I suppose Mantic might be a bit more like Lenny from Of Mice and Men now that I think about it.

Not that I've been in a worse kickstarter, but as long as they deliver I'll still say it was a win. Perhaps because I never read the whole 80% done thing.

 Azazelx wrote:

 TheDungen wrote:
I'm sorry but the fact that GW still use heroic proportions is no longer a viable reason to keep using heroic proportions. The industry is moving away from that and in time even gw will have to change with the times.

Uh.. yeah. While it's certainly good that more options exist now besides just heroic scale, that's not actually going to happen. You'll just have to stick to your preferred truescale models and deal with it.

Why? GW is constantly updating parts of their range, at some point they'll say "Hey wouldn't it be awesome if marines were really bigger than guardsmen?" and then they'll be redoing the range anyway. I'm surprised they didn't slightly increase their size when they recut the tactical a few months back.

Then you'd be stuck with one squad of different marines, where the rest of the entire range range is still stubby and whatnot.

Point. The "Marine" range covers about 100+ kits with interchangeable parts, counting chaos but not counting Forge World.

 Azazelx wrote:
Point. The "Marine" range covers about 100+ kits with interchangeable parts, counting chaos but not counting Forge World.

And you don't think that a business with GW's current ethos wouldn't salivate at the idea of making huge swathes of their customers' product obsolete so they can be sold new product? I don't think it's particularly likely, but it's hardly IMPOSSIBRU! or anything. I doubt, despite what GW would no doubt think, everyone would rush out and buy a whole new army on the spot, but this sort of thing has happened a couple of times before remember - RT to 2nd Edition plastics, then 2nd to 3rd plastics. Now you can argue that people moving their collections over to the new "standard" was as much to do with advances in the aesthetics and technical quality of the kits as much as the size changes, you could argue that easily, but there's no reason to assume that transitioning over to a new scale couldn't come with additional benefits that would drive uptake. A few folk would rush out and gorge themselves on the new-shiny, the vast majority would slowly replace their existing models over time or start new armies with the new models, and a minority of some indeterminate size(likely shrinking over time) would just keep using the models they have for whatever reason.

If I ever win EuroMillions(unlikely as I don't gamble) or find I have a dead stupendously wealthy long-lost relative that leaves me a fortune, buying out GW and moving them over to slide-core-tooled Forgeworld-style 32mm almost-truescale for their whole range would be one of my top goals, not for money but because GW have gotten out of hand with heroic scale IMO. As long as you account for the scale transition by maintaining the existing "if it's GW, you can use it" policy on models, maybe go back to/include an optional non-TLoS system in the rules so old Marines vs New wouldn't cause issues, I don't think it would be problematic.

Anyways, back on topic; I'm not as generous as -iPaint-, I won't be buying from RH again, Kickstarter or retail, unless they pull off a Mierce-level turnaround in terms of their attitude, competence, and reliability. Their stuff is every bit as "boutique" and high quality as RH, yet they manage a consistent pattern of updates, most of their stuff is completed and shipped out on schedule, and they don't treat big chunks of their backers with contempt. When you consider the issues surrounding the company not so long ago, they deserve a lot of credit, and RH would do well to learn from their example. Not that they will of course, I don't think I've met a single "artiste" with the up-their-own-backside attitude problem RH suffers from that's ever developed any self-awareness or humility.

No, that's pretty unpossible at this stage - there's just too much invested in the current sets being cross-compatible. Even within that, they continue to update (as with the Tac Marines) and add infinite variation. There are just too many kits to do for far too small a return.

2nd edition plastics? You mean metal figures with plastic arms, or the monopose starter box models? Because those are your only 2nd ed options there.

I'll have to withhold judgement on RH vs Mierce for now. Mierce seem to have better communication, excepting when Rob Lane is let off his leash. But until RH disappear while ripping off hundreds of customers to reemerge as an "unrelated" miniatures company while attempting to claim the moral high ground, I'll side with RH.

...and once again, I feel dirty.

 Azazelx wrote:


2nd edition plastics? You mean metal figures with plastic arms, or the monopose starter box models? Because those are your only 2nd ed options there.

Sorry, but there were other plastic space marines in 2nd edition. There was the box of 6 (I think) with separate legs and torsos. The joins were flat, not like the current ball and socket.

I remember those, I had a box of them. They were, okayish.

They were okayish. But at the time I thought they were great. Had a couple of boxes, then just added the metal special/heavy weapon marine and sergeant blisters.