Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If this last round of rumors is true, C:SM is pretty much Codex: We Get Everything.

-Power Fists without that annoying I1 deal.
-Twin-linking shooting almost across the board.
-Beastly powerful HQs and amazing army-wide rules.
-FOC-swapping like nothing ever seen before.
-Salamanders safely re-rolling everything that matters. Including saves!
-Ultramarines charging longer and better than Khorne Berserkers, for free.
-Graviton Weapons: You tools fool around with fussy plasmaguns. Our AP2 weapons ruin your initiative.
-Devastators going relentless all over with a doctrine? And they said Long Fangs couldn't be topped....
-Tigurius wiping his behind with Eldrad and Ahriman combined. All disciplines, picking and choosing powers, re-rolling all the time.
-Chapter Masters all having 4 attacks and 4 wounds... as many as a daemon prince the size of a Dread. Makes sense.
-Basic marine going for 14 points. Nice to know that ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics go for half a point each.

So for all those who thumbed their nose at those who complained when the CSM book came out that "You can't do lots of variation and different armies with one book!! It'd be a return to the dark days of 3.5!!", well, there you go.

It does look like a good book on the basics, even if some stuff seems way too strong. Pretty much throws the CSM, DA and CD books in the garbage and makes SM/Tau the new IG/GK cheesemonger combo.

Weird... double post that didn't amend. Well might as well use the space. Can HQ ICs all still take bikes?

Anyone notice this picture on the GW page?



That looks like the new commander standing next to the banner bearer. And those tac marines look different too.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
According to B&C, Salamaders get re-rolls for both flame AND melta weapons. Might be too OP if true, coupled with Vulkan making Meltas MC, that means any tank that gets in Melta-Range it all but guaranteed to get popped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Just saw the Centurion rules, T5, 2+, NO ++ save, 60 pts each basic.

Its official, centurions are the new Mutilators...

with twinlinked flamers, ATSKNF, str9 ap2 armor bane at init, and grenades they are both cheaper than mutilators(61 points with MoN) and considerably better.

the shooting versions look better than obliterators too.

I was mostly talking about the shooty ones, but the assault ones also have Slow and Purposeful, and apparently cant deep strike (B&C dont say), which means you NEED a LR to get them anywhere. Thats at least 440 pts right there. You might as well just take hammernators, roughly the same price and since they have a ++ and Centurions don't, are much more survivable.

For all of those that have seen the rules for Centurions, how many wounds do they have? This will make or break the unit for me. I see no use for a 60+ point model without an invulnerable save and only 1 wound.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I'm going bet that a Captain on a Bike unlocks all 5 man bike squads. Pretty sure who ever had the dex posted "a 5 man squad" meaning at least 5 not 3 man (just like it is now). We've read into it "just a 5 man squad".

Poopoo it. The only thing that bothers me is that "I told you so" doesn't satisfy as much a month later.

40k Radio has been posting this stuff on their Facebook. They later mentioned (when asked) that the bike squads as troops are 3-5 man squads, and one of them can be upgraded to an Attack Bike.

So they're seeing a possible 6 bike squads as troops? I don't have Facebook, can't check.

 Sephyr wrote:
If this last round of rumors is true, C:SM is pretty much Codex: We Get Everything.

-Power Fists without that annoying I1 deal.

On one unit.

-Twin-linking shooting almost across the board.

If you take that trait.

-Beastly powerful HQs and amazing army-wide rules.

HQs that are generally still marines without EW. Army wide rules are nice.

-FOC-swapping like nothing ever seen before.

What, potentially one unit of 5 bikes per bike captain, and nothing else rumored? I guess Crowe making purifiers troops, Draigo making Paladins troops, Grimnar making Wolf Guard troops, Chaos Lords making cult units troops are all in awe of Captain McAwesome and his five man biker gang.

-Salamanders safely re-rolling everything that matters. Including saves!

rerolling saves vs flamers. If the Baleflamer gave them one. Rerolling nothing still gets you, lets see, carry the nothing, that's it, nothing. And Vulkan giving salamandersrerolls of flamers and meltas has been around since 2008.

-Ultramarines charging longer and better than Khorne Berserkers, for free.

Not if you want to twin link all your weapons. And khorne berzerkers have rather more attacks and WS than your average ultramarine

-Graviton Weapons: You tools fool around with fussy plasmaguns. Our AP2 weapons ruin your initiative.

with less range, less effectiveness against low and mid save models, and against light vehicles.

-Devastators going relentless all over with a doctrine? And they said Long Fangs couldn't be topped....

Not if you want to twin link everything or charge "better than Khorne Berzerkers"

-Tigurius wiping his behind with Eldrad and Ahriman combined. All disciplines, picking and choosing powers, re-rolling all the time.

With less wounds and less mastery level

-Chapter Masters all having 4 attacks and 4 wounds... as many as a daemon prince the size of a Dread. Makes sense.

DP has +3 WS, +2S, +1T, +3I, +1A and Fearless and the MC bonuses over a Chapter master. Chapter master has +1 Ld, 3+ armor base, and +1 Inv base over the DP.

-Basic marine going for 14 points. Nice to know that ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics go for half a point each.

ATSKNF is still broken. Granted.

So for all those who thumbed their nose at those who complained when the CSM book came out that "You can't do lots of variation and different armies with one book!! It'd be a return to the dark days of 3.5!!", well, there you go.

It does look like a good book on the basics, even if some stuff seems way too strong. Pretty much throws the CSM, DA and CD books in the garbage and makes SM/Tau the new IG/GK cheesemonger combo.

 Lobukia wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
I'm going bet that a Captain on a Bike unlocks all 5 man bike squads. Pretty sure who ever had the dex posted "a 5 man squad" meaning at least 5 not 3 man (just like it is now). We've read into it "just a 5 man squad".

Poopoo it. The only thing that bothers me is that "I told you so" doesn't satisfy as much a month later.

40k Radio has been posting this stuff on their Facebook. They later mentioned (when asked) that the bike squads as troops are 3-5 man squads, and one of them can be upgraded to an Attack Bike.

So they're seeing a possible 6 bike squads as troops? I don't have Facebook, can't check.

5 bikes, one of which can be an Attack Bike instead.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

On one unit.

-Twin-linking shooting almost across the board.

If you take that trait.

-FOC-swapping like nothing ever seen before.

What, potentially one unit of 5 bikes per bike captain, and nothing else rumored? I guess Crowe making purifiers troops, Draigo making Paladins troops, Grimnar making Wolf Guard troops, Chaos Lords making cult units troops are all in awe of Captain McAwesome and his five man biker gang.

-Ultramarines charging longer and better than Khorne Berserkers, for free.

Not if you want to twin link all your weapons. And khorne berzerkers have rather more attacks and WS than your average ultramarine

-Devastators going relentless all over with a doctrine? And they said Long Fangs couldn't be topped....

Not if you want to twin link everything or charge "better than Khorne Berzerkers"

-Tigurius wiping his behind with Eldrad and Ahriman combined. All disciplines, picking and choosing powers, re-rolling all the time.

With less wounds and less mastery level
.

There's no way to make Sternguard Troops, only scoring, it's not the same. It's not new either. In fact the the abilities of C:SM to swap slots has been toned down since the 5th ed. book.

And you can switch traits before each game just as easily as you can swap what codex you are using.

It's a silly complaint.

Sounds to me that anything paired with this codex will break the meta, kinda like how Tau is supposedly the "meta changing" army yet this codex sounds even better. Virtually any AoC/BB will be much better off paired with this army (looking at you IG, Tau, and Eldar), maybe even achieve top tournament status!

Just thinking, mind you. The stat-line boost to the Chapter Master might warrant me using him again. I used to field him in every list i made, the S10 AP1 big blast sounded awesome, even won me a game; but 25 points for that was too much for me. Having a stat boost might warrant the premium. And here's to hoping to get something close to Blood Ravens Chapter tactics, just hope mind you

 d-usa wrote:
And you can switch traits before each game just as easily as you can swap what codex you are using.

It's a silly complaint.

Unless you're speaking competitively, then your list is locked.

Or even for people that don't like tailoring, and using all comers list.

I don't have any opinion on that though, just saying.

I just want to see the Salamander Collectors cover

To prevent abuse, I have a feeling they're gonna make so you can only have one Chapter Master per Army, and he must be your warlord (won't preventor Kantor/Vulcan cheese lists though since Vulcan isn't the CM, unless they retcon it.)

 Snrub wrote:
Anyone notice this picture on the GW page?



That looks like the new commander standing next to the banner bearer. And those tac marines look different too.

The commander is actually a Sicarus conversion

The painter of the IF has been on the WD Daily several times showing his mad skillz at painting yellow. I think he use FW bits + regular marine bits to get the look.

On topic:

It looks like those blue marines will be on the rise.... Good thing my LGS is more focused on WFB now.

Lucarikx

It will be interesting to see if it will still be kind of necessary to take combi weapons on my sternguard, or if I can take their special ammo and save some points still.

Also be interesting to see if their combi weapons go up to 10 points each or if they stay at 5.

Also devestator version is going to be down to how much the missile launcher costs I think. Also not worth it for twinlinked weapons but if you got two of them, then it might become worth it, especially with DA allies and some cheap diviniation goodness.

Sadly I probably wont be able to buy much more than the codex at release, but maybe in a few months after i go through everything I have and see what I need I might be able to get some of the new stuff(if it even fits in my list)

will space wolves be allowed to take the centurions?

Triszin wrote:
will space wolves be allowed to take the centurions?

Yes, through Allies.

 Lucarikx wrote:
The commander is actually a Sicarus conversion

The painter of the IF has been on the WD Daily several times showing his mad skillz at painting yellow. I think he use FW bits + regular marine bits to get the look.

Well then.... I guess i'll go back to lurking in my corner since i'm not really needed here.

This is going to be a very long month....

 SickSix wrote:
This is going to be a very long month....

.....Full of whine.

 Lobukia wrote:
So they're seeing a possible 6 bike squads as troops? I don't have Facebook, can't check.

Let's wait for the actual rulings.
The sources that I found rumoured that you need at LEAST 5 bikes.

Kangodo wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
So they're seeing a possible 6 bike squads as troops? I don't have Facebook, can't check.

Let's wait for the actual rulings.
The sources that I found rumoured that you need at LEAST 5 bikes.

Here's what 40k Radio is saying:
On taking bikes as troops:

Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.

Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

On the number of bikes:

Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.

Ugh... Why did they beat bike heavy sm armies silly with a nerf bat? I always found them fun to play agiest. O_o

They also seemed kinda rare in all honesty. I just don't get why they would do that even as a non sm player.

MajorWesJanson 543907 5945572 nullTwin-linking shooting almost across the board wrote:
If you take that trait.

Still pretty ridiculous for what appears to be a free upgrade on top of across the board price cuts.

rerolling saves vs flamers. If the Baleflamer gave them one. Rerolling nothing still gets you, lets see, carry the nothing, that's it, nothing. And Vulkan giving salamandersrerolls of flamers and meltas has been around since 2008.

The rerolls only applied on flamer to-wound and melta to-hit rolls, not on armor pen or to-wound for meltas. Combined that makes these things pretty stupid silly if the rumors are true, especially as they look to be free.

 Lockark wrote:
Ugh... Why did they beat bike heavy sm armies silly with a nerf bat? I always found them fun to play agiest. O_o

They also seemed kinda rare in all honesty. I just don't get why they would do that even as a non sm player.

If they did... to sell the White Scar supplement, of course

 Lockark wrote:
Ugh... Why did they beat bike heavy sm armies silly with a nerf bat? I always found them fun to play agiest. O_o

They also seemed kinda rare in all honesty. I just don't get why they would do that even as a non sm player.

Either their trying to move us away from the idea of WS as a bike only army...or the supplement will bring that back in and that was the only idea they had to put into the supplement as a major army mechanic so they pulled it from the book.

If the rumor is still to be believed that WS will be the first supplement, it seems like they are indeed doing the quote unquote old "take it away, give back in supplement" routine.

 Vaktathi wrote:

MajorWesJanson 543907 5945572 nullTwin-linking shooting almost across the board wrote:
If you take that trait.

Still pretty ridiculous for what appears to be a free upgrade on top of across the board price cuts.

rerolling saves vs flamers. If the Baleflamer gave them one. Rerolling nothing still gets you, lets see, carry the nothing, that's it, nothing. And Vulkan giving salamandersrerolls of flamers and meltas has been around since 2008.

The rerolls only applied on flamer to-wound and melta to-hit rolls, not on armor pen or to-wound for meltas. Combined that makes these things pretty stupid silly if the rumors are true, especially as they look to be free.

Considering:

A.) Similar rules were free in the last codex

B.) UMs and other chapter get rules that could also just as easily be as good/

C.) SMs are and always will be the golden boy of GW (just looks how much they're getting compared to other 6th releases)

I really wouldn't surprised is these rumors are correct.

I'm really looking forward to it as an Imperial Fist player. Might even invest in the limited ed codex.

To be honest anything more interesting than IF's getting stubborn as a basic chapter trait was just a bonus for me . Quite happy with everything I'm reading. I'm hoping the codex sits somewhere mid tier as usual, that way people enjoy playing against the marines, and it isn't a complete turn off to be playing as them too.

 Lockark wrote:
Ugh... Why did they beat bike heavy sm armies silly with a nerf bat? I always found them fun to play agiest. O_o

They also seemed kinda rare in all honesty. I just don't get why they would do that even as a non sm player.

Probably so that DA actually have a reason to exist.