Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added]

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**UltraPrime**

dkellyj wrote:
A lot of this would depend on the wording of the Chapter Tactics. Does Kantor make SternGuard "Scoring" or "Troops".
If the later...then you can bring a Chapter Master and his "special guys." If the former you can play games like this.
Note: This was made with old codex points, but its close enough:
U/M Captain
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
Kantor
Scout Squad (troop)
Sternguard x10, (scoring) drop pod
Vulkan
Tac Squad, Melta, M-Melta, drop pod (T/L tank killers)
Khan (with bike)
Bike Squad x8 (troops)

That runs about 1865 points, plenty left over to kit out special weapons on the U/M Capt and the sgts. Or switch the Captain for Calgar just to give a hard to kill HQ in the mix). It gives you 5 troops (6 scoring units that can combat squad into 11 scoring units) with each unit type gaining the special rules that maximize their weapons/wargear. Scoring Sternguard with special ammo to kill MCs. T/L meltas podding in to kill tanks on turn 1. Bikes to move in quick and tie up critical unikts (Tau Pathfinders...remove Markerlights from Tau synergy), and a bunch of rerolling bolters (with some flamers) to deal with horde units.
Of course I would expect to see 4 different colors of Space Marine on the board.

(EDIT) This also lets you play other shenanigans...dropping one of the allied units and bringing a Grey Knight Ally, Champion HQ, Strike squad with Halberds and hammer in a Rhino...and a Vindicaire to bust his uber HQs 2/3++ invul or pop tanks with the 4 dice of punching.
Or Bringing some Wolves to the party. Or the trusty IG just to get a Vendetta to hunt Flyers and punk other Uber Multi-wound Characters (but then your loosing your "how many different flavors of power Armor can I stick in 1 Army just to be That Guy"...although you can stick the 10 Vets and the Commisar Lord inside the Vendetta to hide their non-power armor bodies).

I don't think that's legal. Isn't it ONE allied detachment per FOC?

**Godless-Mimicry**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Exergy wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder how the Allies thing will be worded. Hoping you'll be able to ally two chapters with the same Traits.

just to get 4 HS choices 4 Elites and 4 Fast Attack slots?

or to take Calgar, Sicarius and Tigurius in a 1500 point game?

I dont see the point

I honestly just want that 4th Fast Attack. Marines are allowed 4 slots anyway through mixing chapters, so I could just ally some DA or whatever, but I'd feel better if I could just field more of the chapter that I actually play.

I'm sure everybody else simply wants a 4th slot of some kind for the army they already play, but that's not how the rules work so why should we have it any different?

**Eldarain**

Crazyterran wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Don't know if it has been mentioned but it is very possible the that the new tanks contain a rule sheet in the box that will make them valid for entries for DA.

Oh, like those rules for the Nephilim/Plasma Cannon Termies that Codex: Space Marines got when the Dark Angel book released!

Wait a minute, Codex: Space Marines didn't get that!

I guess Dark Angels are just gak out of luck.

I don`t think any Dark Angels players would bat an eyelash if the Nephilim was to be transferred to another book....

**d-usa**

What I would love to have is a basic "HQ" box that has shoulder pads and weapons to make Chaplains or Librarians, instead of the static plastic guys we seem to be getting.

**Exergy**

Eldarain wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Don't know if it has been mentioned but it is very possible the that the new tanks contain a rule sheet in the box that will make them valid for entries for DA.

Oh, like those rules for the Nephilim/Plasma Cannon Termies that Codex: Space Marines got when the Dark Angel book released!

Wait a minute, Codex: Space Marines didn't get that!

I guess Dark Angels are just gak out of luck.

I don`t think any Dark Angels players would bat an eyelash if the Nephilim was to be transferred to another book....

Im not sure they would sell 1 single additional kit

**Crazyterran**

Eldarain wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
SickSix wrote:
Don't know if it has been mentioned but it is very possible the that the new tanks contain a rule sheet in the box that will make them valid for entries for DA.

Oh, like those rules for the Nephilim/Plasma Cannon Termies that Codex: Space Marines got when the Dark Angel book released!

Wait a minute, Codex: Space Marines didn't get that!

I guess Dark Angels are just gak out of luck.

I don`t think any Dark Angels players would bat an eyelash if the Nephilim was to be transferred to another book....

That wasn't the point, really. None of the special speeders, etc. Have Codex: Space Marine versions, so why do people keep expecting other codices to receive new toys from this book?

Honestly, I'm probably not going to use the Stalker or Hunter. But, on the other hand, I don't understand why people think that Dark Angels or Blood Angels etc. are going to get anything out of this release.

Other than new Tactical Marines/Veterans to use, or at least convert, with.

EDIT: I think I could understand asking about Grav Guns, since they are adding it to the Tactical Marine box. That would be a reasonable thing to ask about, imo.

**Exergy**

dkellyj wrote:
A lot of this would depend on the wording of the Chapter Tactics. Does Kantor make SternGuard "Scoring" or "Troops".
If the later...then you can bring a Chapter Master and his "special guys." If the former you can play games like this.
Note: This was made with old codex points, but its close enough:
U/M Captain
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
Kantor
Scout Squad (troop)
Sternguard x10, (scoring) drop pod
Vulkan
Tac Squad, Melta, M-Melta, drop pod (T/L tank killers)
Khan (with bike)
Bike Squad x8 (troops)

That runs about 1865 points, plenty left over to kit out special weapons on the U/M Capt and the sgts. Or switch the Captain for Calgar just to give a hard to kill HQ in the mix). It gives you 5 troops (6 scoring units that can combat squad into 11 scoring units) with each unit type gaining the special rules that maximize their weapons/wargear. Scoring Sternguard with special ammo to kill MCs. T/L meltas podding in to kill tanks on turn 1. Bikes to move in quick and tie up critical unikts (Tau Pathfinders...remove Markerlights from Tau synergy), and a bunch of rerolling bolters (with some flamers) to deal with horde units.
Of course I would expect to see 4 different colors of Space Marine on the board.

you will likely be limited to 1 allied detachment. No way to get 4 HQs in 1 force org unless you are SW.

**Crazyterran**

Exergy wrote:
dkellyj wrote:
A lot of this would depend on the wording of the Chapter Tactics. Does Kantor make SternGuard "Scoring" or "Troops".
If the later...then you can bring a Chapter Master and his "special guys." If the former you can play games like this.
Note: This was made with old codex points, but its close enough:
U/M Captain
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
Kantor
Scout Squad (troop)
Sternguard x10, (scoring) drop pod
Vulkan
Tac Squad, Melta, M-Melta, drop pod (T/L tank killers)
Khan (with bike)
Bike Squad x8 (troops)

That runs about 1865 points, plenty left over to kit out special weapons on the U/M Capt and the sgts. Or switch the Captain for Calgar just to give a hard to kill HQ in the mix). It gives you 5 troops (6 scoring units that can combat squad into 11 scoring units) with each unit type gaining the special rules that maximize their weapons/wargear. Scoring Sternguard with special ammo to kill MCs. T/L meltas podding in to kill tanks on turn 1. Bikes to move in quick and tie up critical unikts (Tau Pathfinders...remove Markerlights from Tau synergy), and a bunch of rerolling bolters (with some flamers) to deal with horde units.
Of course I would expect to see 4 different colors of Space Marine on the board.

you will likely be limited to 1 allied detachment. No way to get 4 HQs in 1 force org unless you are SW.

At 2000pts, if the rumor is true, you can have a different CT for every Primary Detachment, and you are already allowed one allied detachment for each Primary one.

So, you would be able to do that, yes.

EDIT: Even though that list is kind of garbage. Relying on one squad of Meltas to deal with armor? >.> Not to mention the MM would be snapfiring out of the pod.

**Alpharius**

d-usa wrote:
What I would love to have is a basic "HQ" box that has shoulder pads and weapons to make Chaplains or Librarians, instead of the static plastic guys we seem to be getting.

Me too!

We've been waiting for that kit ever since they released the plastic SM captain!

**Crazyterran**

I'd even just take a Captain in Terminator Armor that isn't from the 1980s.

**d-usa**

Alpharius wrote:
d-usa wrote:
What I would love to have is a basic "HQ" box that has shoulder pads and weapons to make Chaplains or Librarians, instead of the static plastic guys we seem to be getting.

Me too!

We've been waiting for that kit ever since they released the plastic SM captain!

And when I first heard "plastic Chaplain" and "plastic Librarian" I was so very happy.

Until I saw pictures that looked very monopose...

And they could really make a killing of this. They don't even have to release a whole kit for it.

It really wouldn't take that much to put on a sprue:

A hand holding a Crozius, a couple hands holding force weapons, a skull helm, a robed head, a bald head, a Rosarius, A skull shoulder pad, a librarian shoulder pad.

They could charge $15 for that thing and call it an HQ upgrade kit and make it direct only, and people would still buy it.

**orkybenji**

These rumors are really making me want to start a Blood Ravens army. I always considered SM to be one of my least favorite armies too. If only I had less in my painting cue! I actually hope Bretonnia and SoB are still a long way off since I don't have the time for all the inevitable purchases I would make.

**ClockworkZion**

orkybenji wrote:
These rumors are really making me want to start a Blood Ravens army. I always considered SM to be one of my least favorite armies too. If only I had less in my painting cue! I actually hope Bretonnia and SoB are still a long way off since I don't have the time for all the inevitable purchases I would make.

If Sisters are lucky they'll see an update at the back half of 2014. It might be later than that. So you're likely safe on that side at least. I haven't heard anything about Bretonnia yet.

**ph34r**

d-usa wrote:
They could charge $15 for that thing and call it an HQ upgrade kit and make it direct only, and people would still buy it.

"Still" buy it at $15? Yeah considering that a commander is $22.50 I'm pretty sure people might buy a kit that costs 2/3 as much and makes 2x as many types of unit.

**Crazyterran**

ph34r wrote:
d-usa wrote:
They could charge $15 for that thing and call it an HQ upgrade kit and make it direct only, and people would still buy it.
"Still" buy it at $15? Yeah considering that a commander is $22.50 I'm pretty sure people might buy a kit that costs 2/3 as much and makes 2x as many types of unit.

Maybe, considering he only suggested that it come with Head/Weapon/Shoulder Pad options, not the legs/chest/arms/ranged weapons options.

**d-usa**

Crazyterran wrote:
ph34r wrote:
d-usa wrote:
They could charge $15 for that thing and call it an HQ upgrade kit and make it direct only, and people would still buy it.
"Still" buy it at $15? Yeah considering that a commander is $22.50 I'm pretty sure people might buy a kit that costs 2/3 as much and makes 2x as many types of unit.

Maybe, considering he only suggested that it come with Head/Weapon/Shoulder Pad options, not the legs/chest/arms/ranged weapons options.

Yup, gotta make sure you still have to buy another kit to actually use the bits. It is GW after all

**davou**

Just a thought; What if suppliment White Scars does NOT allow bike troops, but instead for 'X' points you can guarantee that the mission is scouring?

**cadbren**

davou wrote:
Just a thought, but what if suppliment White Scars does NOT allow bike troops, but instead allows you force the game to be scouring for X points?

I think there are words missing in the above sentence, it makes no sense.

**davou**

I thought it was fine, but edited anyway. ^

**Puscifer**

Just realised how much one squad of Deathwatch is going to be...

Yeah... I might sit this one out.

**AlmightyWalrus**

What's with the complaints that Vanilla will get to ally with themselves? They're the third Codex to be given the option of doing so, but I guess it's unfair because it's Marines and they're the Devil, right?

**Crimson**

Weren't 40K Radio guys supposed to answer some more questions? What happened to that, did GW send their hitmen after them?

**tvih**

Crazyterran wrote:At 2000pts, if the rumor is true, you can have a different CT for every Primary Detachment, and you are already allowed one allied detachment for each Primary one.

I've only seen that wishlisted, not rumored. Even if that were to be the case, which I HIGHLY doubt, who says each primary detachment could suddenly also have a different chapter as an ally? No. Just no. They'll allow different chapter tactics as an ally, but anything beyond that would be silly.

Crimson wrote:Weren't 40K Radio guys supposed to answer some more questions? What happened to that, did GW send their hitmen after them?

They were supposed to, yeah, but they indeed went awfully silent.

**Leth**

It is not supposed to be until the first of september from what I understand

**Godless-Mimicry**

Crazyterran wrote:
Exergy wrote:
dkellyj wrote:
A lot of this would depend on the wording of the Chapter Tactics. Does Kantor make SternGuard "Scoring" or "Troops".
If the later...then you can bring a Chapter Master and his "special guys." If the former you can play games like this.
Note: This was made with old codex points, but its close enough:
U/M Captain
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
U/M Tac Squad (reroll shots), Flamer, HB, Rhino
Kantor
Scout Squad (troop)
Sternguard x10, (scoring) drop pod
Vulkan
Tac Squad, Melta, M-Melta, drop pod (T/L tank killers)
Khan (with bike)
Bike Squad x8 (troops)

That runs about 1865 points, plenty left over to kit out special weapons on the U/M Capt and the sgts. Or switch the Captain for Calgar just to give a hard to kill HQ in the mix). It gives you 5 troops (6 scoring units that can combat squad into 11 scoring units) with each unit type gaining the special rules that maximize their weapons/wargear. Scoring Sternguard with special ammo to kill MCs. T/L meltas podding in to kill tanks on turn 1. Bikes to move in quick and tie up critical unikts (Tau Pathfinders...remove Markerlights from Tau synergy), and a bunch of rerolling bolters (with some flamers) to deal with horde units.
Of course I would expect to see 4 different colors of Space Marine on the board.

you will likely be limited to 1 allied detachment. No way to get 4 HQs in 1 force org unless you are SW.

At 2000pts, if the rumor is true, you can have a different CT for every Primary Detachment, and you are already allowed one allied detachment for each Primary one.

So, you would be able to do that, yes.

EDIT: Even though that list is kind of garbage. Relying on one squad of Meltas to deal with armor? >.> Not to mention the MM would be snapfiring out of the pod.

Problem is IIRC, in order to get a second allied detachment even at 2kpts+, you still need to actually have a second primary detachment first. So you will need at least 2HQs and 4 Troops from your primary before taking your second allies.

Also, I didn't see any rumour saying each Primary could have different Chapter Tactics. Pretty sure people were just randomly wishlisting that is all.

**Quark**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What's with the complaints that Vanilla will get to ally with themselves? They're the third Codex to be given the option of doing so, but I guess it's unfair because it's Marines and they're the Devil, right?

No one should be getting it, but it's egregious with C:SM because you're not taking Codex + Supplement (that has restrictions), you're taking Codex (w/ bonus rules) + Codex (w/ other bonus rules).

**wtwlf123**

Every primary army + allies comes with bonus rules for the main army and bonus rules for the secondary army. CT will only apply to their own detachment. So what exactly is egregious about Ultras allying with Salamanders? The fact that you don't have to buy a second codex?

**MajorWesJanson**

Pyriel- wrote:
Exergy wrote:

BTW I really love this guy. The cables look like they will break easily, and im not sure i can paint the skin the right color but dam he is cool

Hehe, how do these guys assault things like narrow tunnel systems? Would like to see that fit in without scraping of that nice vehicle radar from his back

He's a Devastator captain. If he leading an assault, he is doing something wrong. And in a tunnel, he's the guy setting up at a large junction just waiting for the enemy to come along all bunched up in narrow tunnels for his heavy weapon troops to wipe out.

**Quark**

wtwlf123 wrote:
Every primary army + allies comes with bonus rules for the main army and bonus rules for the secondary army. CT will only apply to their own detachment. So what exactly is egregious about Ultras allying with Salamanders? The fact that you don't have to buy a second codex?

It's just a copout to getting 4 Elite, 4 Fast Attack, or 4 Heavy Support within a single codex. If limiting those force org slots to 3 was a good idea in the first place, why do some get to ignore the limit?

**Pyriel-**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Pyriel- wrote:
Exergy wrote:

BTW I really love this guy. The cables look like they will break easily, and im not sure i can paint the skin the right color but dam he is cool

Hehe, how do these guys assault things like narrow tunnel systems? Would like to see that fit in without scraping of that nice vehicle radar from his back

He's a Devastator captain. If he leading an assault, he is doing something wrong. And in a tunnel, he's the guy setting up at a large junction just waiting for the enemy to come along all bunched up in narrow tunnels for his heavy weapon troops to wipe out.

So what are all the other characters toting gigantic useless things like speakers, wings, naked babies etc on their heads doing? Are all standing there cheering up the ones doing the actual assault?