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2013/10/05 18:36:34
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Realy I think the sisters armor looks more comfortable and more practicle than a hell of a lot of other minis get, and with the design choices for 40k giving a lot to style I think it's some of GW best designs.
I expect within the 40k mindset they are made as comfortable and usable as possible with a lot of design put into aesthetics. Even lipstick I like on them, could be ritualistic easily. Looking forward to new mins !
Considering the price in aus I can't imagine the price not going down when going to plastic I think. It's about 110$ here for a basic unit of sisters D:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 18:38:54
2013/10/05 18:40:56
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Apple fox wrote: Realy I think the sisters armor looks more comfortable and more practicle than a hell of a lot of other minis get, and with the design choices for 40k giving a lot to style I think it's some of GW best designs.
I expect within the 40k mindset they are made as comfortable and usable as possible with a lot of design put into aesthetics. Even lipstick I like on them, could be ritualistic easily. Looking forward to new mins !
Considering the price in aus I can't imagine the price not going down when going to plastic I think. It's about 110$ here for a basic unit of sisters D:
I just don't think people quite realize just how expensive sisters are, if they haven't purchased any direct from GW recently.
Now on the other hand, over 70 Sisters models sold for only $280 bucks on Ebay yesterday.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 18:42:55
2013/10/05 18:43:05
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Thanatos73 wrote: And never mind the firsthand real world example I provided. But pictures of UFC fighters is better than real examples I guess.
There was nothing wrong with your post or your examples. I respect that. Yet the comparisons that people make in every day life or even in standard military service where people of all shapes and sizes exist don't apply here. The pictures of UFC athletes or other extremely tuned specimens are apt because they're quite far from the soccer mom or dad looks that people unconsciously think of. We're either talking about the genetically enhanced super warrior future where people are born to fight for their entire lives and do nothing every day except train or meditate about training, or fight in real combats against alien horrors and heretics for the survival of their entire species, or about the physiologal maximum that the different genders are capable of (these are not equal but I've avoided that subject). My contention is that in that scenario there isn't a necessitating need for women-specific breast armour and that a gender-inspecific armour that comes in different sizes (or probably has some auto-fit mechanism in the future) will have no real flaws in it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 18:51:16
2013/10/05 18:55:55
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Apple fox wrote: Realy I think the sisters armor looks more comfortable and more practicle than a hell of a lot of other minis get, and with the design choices for 40k giving a lot to style I think it's some of GW best designs.
I expect within the 40k mindset they are made as comfortable and usable as possible with a lot of design put into aesthetics. Even lipstick I like on them, could be ritualistic easily. Looking forward to new mins !
Considering the price in aus I can't imagine the price not going down when going to plastic I think. It's about 110$ here for a basic unit of sisters D:
I just don't think people quite realize just how expensive sisters are, if they haven't purchased any direct from GW recently.
Now on the other hand, over 70 Sisters models sold for only $280 bucks on Ebay yesterday.
:0 I didn't even see those, I been looking on ebay every week, missed a good army sold in aus being sick :( sucked so much.
I have some but hard to add to the army right now :(
2013/10/05 18:57:37
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
You guys must be new here, arguing with Therion like that... There ought to be a sign about that somewhere. I seem to recall seeing one, once.
I am trying to get excited about this book, but really it just reminded me to sell off the auxiliary army of Sisters I have floating around. I might be able to get back into things with new and exciting plastics, but a pretty digital release is is pretty weak for my purposes. A physical copy I would buy, but a digital just doesn't cut it.
Ahhh well, a good opportunity for folks to vote with their wallets, even if it seems to be a pretty limited selection of people to sample.
You only used a male UFC athlete, and then claimed that women are the same.
Perhaps you should start another thread elsewhere if you really insist on making such unproven claims.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 19:25:51
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/10/05 19:32:34
Subject: Re:Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Therion, real armour designed for real fighting women in real life is different from male armour. It is not smaller, it's different. You're wrong, please shut up.
On the "boobplate" argument, there's a fun discussion starting here on what is really inside those bulges, given that no human woman could fill them. I'll excerpt highlights here (if you do nothing else, scroll down to the cartoon at the end):
[Headcanon]The "boob plate" is in fact purely decorative, like the rippling muscles on a Roman general's ceremonial breastplate, a deliberate exaggeration of the Sister's femininity so that outsiders can see at once "that's not a Marine, that's a Sister!" because the Sororitas really, really, really do not want to be mistaken for those steroidal freak Astartes. The Sister's actual breasts are safely strapped down in a kind of sarashi arrangement, they're not inside the bulges on the armor.
In fact, nothing is inside the bulges: They're hollow and designed to crumple on impact so they don't form a shot trap between the breasts. The actual power armor is perfectly flat: the boobplate is just another surface decoration, like the fleur-de-lis and skulls.[/headcanon]
Lynata wrote: Heh, I guess I'm halfway where you are. Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.
I don't think they specifically need to tie their breasts down, though, or that they even have a special piece of clothing for it. Powered armour is carried above a suit of electrically motivated fibres, and this suit alone would already limit the, uh, expansion of their bodies a bit.
Fremen suits may be a good comparison to exemplify what I mean, as they are of a similarly "piped/padded" construction (actually visible on the SoB minis too if you look closely on their legs):
I've never bought into the whole "bullet trap" theory, though. For several reasons....
- but lastly ... look between the breasts of a Sister - that area isn't just empty, but rather occupied by the lower half of the respirator apparatus, and a fairly large/thick Ecclesiarchal icon
- bonus excuse: if all else fails, it could always be assumed that such weak spots are reinforced
It does make me wonder if the "breast bowls" might not indeed be used for something else, though, if a Sister's own body does not fill them, or at least not fill them to their entirety. Electronics, perhaps? Drug compartment for painkillers? Marine armour is so huge partially because all this stuff is stored in-between the armour plating and the undersuit ... maybe for the Sisters they preserve a smaller profile because their gadgets are localised in the breasts? Crazy-sounding theory, I know. But still ...
Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.
AtoMaki wrote: Uh... I like to think that the Sisters have something useful in those breastplates. Extra sensors/armor and such.
Psienesis wrote: If we want to go with Tranzor-Z as an inspiration, they're a pair of missiles...
I think I'm with Furyo... the fusion reactor on her back doesn't have a lot of room for additional gear. Her actual assets are contained within the bodyglove/plugsuit she's wearing under the layers of ceramite.
....gotta carry spare mags for the boltgun *somewhere*.....
flamingkillamajig wrote: Back on topic or sort of. I find it would be funny if the sisters had like a cell phone on vibrate in one of their boob armor plates. It just starts vibrating. "Hold on my boob is vibrating. I gotta take this. *answers phone* Hello! *talks into boob*" Hehe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 19:54:19
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
Crimson wrote: Therion, real armour designed for real fighting women in real life is different from male armour. It is not smaller, it's different. You're wrong, please shut up.
+1
I'll just leave this here, and then abandon this off-topic conversation:
the local U.S. Army research and development facility was already building a better vest. “It was like, Duh, women are not small men,” says Archambault, who helped redesign the vests to fit the female form. “Our shoulders are more narrow, our torso length is not as long.” In trials, women wearing the redesigned vests were faster and more efficient as they ran through obstacle courses, and they reported that it made them feel safer overall. “It fits like a prom dress,” Major Yancosek says. The finished product is in the process of being issued to 24,000 female soldiers.
1. A notch in the back collar of the vest can accommodate a woman’s ponytail or bun, keeping her helmet securely in place.
2. Narrowed shoulders and armholes allow a better range of motion.
3. Darting that’s built into several sections of the vest provides a snugger fit.
4. Two inches were removed from the waistline of the vest. The new version is slightly shorter as well, making the “turtling” issues and hip bruises less likely.
5. The waistline, built for the female form, has fewer Kevlar plates and weighs 25 pounds—five pounds lighter than the original model.
Now I will admit that our military doesn't fight with the power of the breast on full display, but it does address the whole "all armor is the same" argument.
2013/10/05 19:45:23
Subject: Re:Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Gender-inspecific body armour is uncomfortable and can even cause injuries in the waist region. Hell, lookt at the links I posted - it drove one policewoman to seek a breast reduction because putting on her armour was painful.
Let's just assume that actual servicewomen and military R&D labs have a better understanding than male posters in an internet forum, shall we?
Locrian wrote:On the price issue, I keep seeing people say this, and I just don't understand it. Right now, Metal sisters are extremely expensive, much more than the ordinary GW line. I would be HIGHLY surprised if plastic sisters weren't cheaper.
Well, look at GW's other minis.
A squad of 10 metal Valhallan infantry cost £20.50. That is a price-per-mini 20 pence more expensive than plastic Cadian infantry.
Meanwhile, a squad of 10 plastic Tactical Space Marines cost £25.00 - more than 4 pounds more expensive than metal IG boxes. If you go for the 5 mini Combat Squad, you even get a price-per-mini of only 50 pence less than the 3 mini box of Battle Sisters.
The price differences get even more ridiculous if you look at other examples such as certain new Dark Eldar minis.
It's not a question of material - Battle Sisters are expensive now because GWwants them to be. I don't see why this should change once they get plastics; certainly, other new army releases did not work that way either.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 19:48:43
2013/10/05 19:51:40
Subject: Re:Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
SisterSydney wrote: On the "boobplate" argument, there's a fun discussion starting here on what is really inside those bulges, given that no human woman could fill them. I'll excerpt highlights here:
[Headcanon]The "boob plate" is in fact purely decorative, like the rippling muscles on a Roman general's ceremonial breastplate, a deliberate exaggeration of the Sister's femininity so that outsiders can see at once "that's not a Marine, that's a Sister!" because the Sororitas really, really, really do not want to be mistaken for those steroidal freak Astartes. The Sister's actual breasts are safely strapped down in a kind of sarashi arrangement, they're not inside the bulges on the armor.
In fact, nothing is inside the bulges: They're hollow and designed to crumple on impact so they don't form a shot trap between the breasts. The actual power armor is perfectly flat: the boobplate is just another surface decoration, like the fleur-de-lis and skulls.[/headcanon]
Lynata wrote: Heh, I guess I'm halfway where you are. Yes, I too see them as a deliberate exaggeration, and am considering that it might have been the idea of High Lord Vandire, who was responsible for transforming the backwater cult on San Leor into a superbly equipped bodyguard and enforcement detail. We can probably assume that he was a bit of a pervert as Codex fluff not only mentions that he had the Brides of the Emperor act as companions and had them "entertain him with singing, dancing, and other, more exotic, skills." Uh-oh.
So it's either that, or it was the Ecclesiarchy ordering this to be considered in the design because they wanted to make it clear that their little army isn't men under arms (Ministorum = trolls). Or perhaps it was a bit of both.
I don't think they specifically need to tie their breasts down, though, or that they even have a special piece of clothing for it. Powered armour is carried above a suit of electrically motivated fibres, and this suit alone would already limit the, uh, expansion of their bodies a bit.
Fremen suits may be a good comparison to exemplify what I mean, as they are of a similarly "piped/padded" construction (actually visible on the SoB minis too if you look closely on their legs):
I've never bought into the whole "bullet trap" theory, though. For several reasons....
- but lastly ... look between the breasts of a Sister - that area isn't just empty, but rather occupied by the lower half of the respirator apparatus, and a fairly large/thick Ecclesiarchal icon
- bonus excuse: if all else fails, it could always be assumed that such weak spots are reinforced
It does make me wonder if the "breast bowls" might not indeed be used for something else, though, if a Sister's own body does not fill them, or at least not fill them to their entirety. Electronics, perhaps? Drug compartment for painkillers? Marine armour is so huge partially because all this stuff is stored in-between the armour plating and the undersuit ... maybe for the Sisters they preserve a smaller profile because their gadgets are localised in the breasts? Crazy-sounding theory, I know. But still ...
Considering that the Sisterhood sends its Repentia into battle wearing, um, provocative garments -- even the models are a bit skimpy, let alone the artwork, which suggests they have managed to weaponize nudity-- I think it's clear that someone influential in the early days of the Adepta Sororitas had a strong appreciation for the power of the female form to distract and disconcert a male opponent.
AtoMaki wrote: Uh... I like to think that the Sisters have something useful in those breastplates. Extra sensors/armor and such.
Psienesis wrote: If we want to go with Tranzor-Z as an inspiration, they're a pair of missiles...
I think I'm with Furyo... the fusion reactor on her back doesn't have a lot of room for additional gear. Her actual assets are contained within the bodyglove/plugsuit she's wearing under the layers of ceramite.
....gotta carry spare mags for the boltgun *somewhere*.....
flamingkillamajig wrote: Back on topic or sort of. I find it would be funny if the sisters had like a cell phone on vibrate in one of their boob armor plates. It just starts vibrating. "Hold on my boob is vibrating. I gotta take this. *answers phone* Hello! *talks into boob*" Hehe.
Kroothawk wrote: Wake me up when we get new miniatures, not just a copy paste WD article.
But it isn't just a copy+paste. Why are people still saying this? Didn't you see the Digital Editions Facebook post? We're getting quite a bit of original content in this.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
2013/10/05 20:03:49
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Sorry, people just have read the original thread to see it in its full, um, glory?
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
If you want to discuss the merits of male/female armour and the need or not of specialist styles and shapes to contain the female form, please take to a 40k General discussion if Sisters centered, or Dakka Discussions if general creating a new thread if necessary.
Thanks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/05 21:16:15
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
2013/10/05 21:35:17
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
So as the mod asks, back on topic... anyone have a summary of the more reliable rumors we've heard thus far about the new codex?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/10/05 21:42:19
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
The rumor was just that they were discussing faith points and scaling, no? Nothing actually definite like 'Yes, faith points have been revised in the e-codex'.
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2013/10/05 22:05:28
Subject: Re:Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
The sad part is, all GW needs to do is release one plastic SoB box for the basic squad, and they'll sell truckloads of them. I've been watching the SoB auctions on Ebay, but they end up being just a little too pricey for me to go in on them. But that's mostly because I keep spending money on my Red Scorpions space marine legion.
I will be getting the new ebook when it comes out.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2013/10/05 22:24:44
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Melissia wrote: anyone have a summary of the more reliable rumors we've heard thus far about the new codex?
- Warlord Traits - Relics - Altar of War - Faith has been "looked at" in response to the scaling issue - 'Minor' point tweaks - Will probably get a physical release if it sells well enough - Released on 19th, preordering and a preview on the 12th - New artwork - New fluff
That's everything from our reliable sources, as far as I can tell. Here's the sources all in one place, though:
- White Dwarf mention
Spoiler:
- evildrcheese's talk with Robin Cruddace:
evildrcheese wrote:Spoke to Cruddence @ Games Day re SoB asking if the digital version is his WD dex. He confirmed it is, hes been involved in the writing of the warlord traits was the impression I got. He also told me they'velooked at the scaling issue for faith points and that there's been 'minor' point tweaks. Release date is for next month (October). Interestingly he said it'll probably be treat like a supplement in that if it sells well as a digital it's probably get a physical release. Spoke to someone from the digital editions stand and they confirmed it'll be for Android aswell as Ipad.
Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:It's certainly based on the White Dwarf Sisters of Battle Codex, but with new additions to bring it in line with the new books. Things like Warlords table, new Ecclesiarchy Relics and an Altar of War. There's also new artwork and an expanded background section.
Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:In answer to your questions - you can preorder it from the 12th, and download it on the 19th. Yup, it will work on Android and Kindle. The rules have been amended, so you certainly won't need any FAQ's to play with the codex. We haven't got any news on a physical release.
Games Workshop: Digital Editions wrote:You can preorder you copy and download a preview next weekend.
Kroothawk wrote: Wake me up when we get new miniatures, not just a copy paste WD article.
But it isn't just a copy+paste. Why are people still saying this? Didn't you see the Digital Editions Facebook post? We're getting quite a bit of original content in this.
One added table, one added scenario, one 3D pic of a 10 year old mini and one more paragraph copypasted from 2nd edition Codex doesn't change the fact, that author and GW acknowledge it being basically the digital version of the 2-part WD article. And that article's function was to rob Sororitas of all its Inquisition units, so basically half its units.
I will ignore this until the originally planned full Codex with more ecclesiarchical units and new miniatures will be released, and then I will call it a release worth discussing. This digital thingy is just a sorry excuse to ignore the obvious demand for a serious army update since 2003 (that's 3 editions and 10 years and counting).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 23:24:27
Its just an ascetic thing. Nothing to get worked up about.
Also, lots of body armor and uniforms historically do emphasize sexuality. For instance greek hoplites muscled bronze breastplates, renaisance uniforms which were adopted as fashion items, hussar cavalrymens tight breeches etc etc. All of which is more about masculinity/fashion than anything to do with practicality. Modern armies have extreme discipline which prevents soldiers modifying their uniforms for individual expression in this manner; or its done simply because of practical concerns that would put them at risk. Given that 40k is set in a high tech medieval setting its not surprising things look OTT and unpractical. I assume the power armor works since they get a 3+ armor save and I guess the ecclesiarchy is fine with them pointing out they are women. So it really isn't a big deal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 23:30:29
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Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
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2013/10/05 23:35:09
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
...and a reworked faith system, and points asjustments, and new fluff, and new artwork, and relics. so yes, calling it a copy+paste is definetely wrong. They've added and adjusted content, therefore it is notably different to what came before.
Kroothawk wrote: one 3D pic of a 10 year old mini and one more paragraph copypasted from 2nd edition Codex doesn't change the fact,
What? Where are you getting these from? Haven't heard anything about either of those. Source?
Kroothawk wrote: that author and GW acknowledge it being basically the digital version of the 2-part WD article.
Well... what else were you expecting? There aren't any new models, so a proper update is ruled out. But instead, they've made the rules obtainable again, and even put in work to update it a bit. This is just a stopgap for an actual update, we shouldn't expect any more from it. It serves its purpose.
Kroothawk wrote: rob Sororitas of all its Inquisition units, so basically half its units.
Good riddance, I say.
Kroothawk wrote: This digital thingy is just a sorry excuse to ignore the obvious demand for a serious army update
Alternatively, it is a stopgap for said update. And why bother doing it if their intent is to ignore the Sisters? They were perfectly capable of ignoring the complaints of SoB fans before, so its not like they're desperate to "appease" people.
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
2013/10/06 00:09:37
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
Ok no trying to rain on the sister thread but don't want to open whole new thread for a question. What's the word in the blood angels edition? Is it also updated with warlord traits and relics and what not?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/06 00:10:14
2013/10/06 00:47:14
Subject: Adepta Sororitas Digital Codex - October 19
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Ok no trying to rain on the sister thread but don't want to open whole new thread for a question. What's the word in the blood angels edition? Is it also updated with warlord traits and relics and what not?
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
)
Cratfworld Alaitoc (
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
