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 JoeRugby wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Has anyone with the box taken a look at scenarios and tiles that come with the box?

Are there any scenarios that use all the tiles? If not, how many tiles (realistically how many sheets of tiles) can they leave out of the 'retail' version and still have all the scenarios in the book be playable with what is in the box?

I wonder if this new 'retail' version will still include the KS Exclusive Resin Figures?

They have only been able to pay for one plastic sprue (preds) so I'd guess yes.

Do we know that as fact?

Here's a though - if that is true and they can't pay for the other sprues, then maybe they are so cash poor they can't pay for all the shipping to backers? Maybe they have a hand to mouth existence - and they are servicing retailers when they can simply because they need (and I mean desperately need) the cash in order to pay for more shipping.

I'd hope not, it's just a thought.

biggusdoggus wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:

They have only been able to pay for one plastic sprue (preds) so I'd guess yes.

Do we know that as fact?

Here's a though - if that is true and they can't pay for the other sprues, then maybe they are so cash poor they can't pay for all the shipping to backers? Maybe they have a hand to mouth existence - and they are servicing retailers when they can simply because they need (and I mean desperately need) the cash in order to pay for more shipping.

I'd hope not, it's just a thought.

It's discussed around 12 minutes into the interview they have only got the Predator sprue done, the rest is "not an investment we are quite ready to make right now, and it's not an investment that we could make until we've generated the revenue to make that investment"

so basically they don't have the money to do it and have to stick with resin.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/weegamers/prodos-avp-game-over-man-part-one

yeah,
Can't afford to complete the plastics is pretty much the same thing as run out of money...
Hence I don't think we are getting our copy any time soon.
If they honestly made this clear I'd respect them....
However they just keep talking BS so we have no idea whats happening.

I suggest we all start stomping our feet more online.
I've made my views known on the comments for every video/review I can find and will keep doing so until they send me my product.

Panic...

sorry - I hadn't watched the interview that far in.

So they can't afford to get the plastic tooling made, and they can't afford to ship all the backer pledges because of cashflow issues. (actually, thinking about it, I was essentially told they had major cash flow issues by staff at Expo)

But this would also suggest that they have no access to credit - at least not more credit than they already have.

All that points to a company in pretty serious trouble. I note that they tried to defend rumours of financial difficulties in an update a few weeks back, to the point of being quite aggressive about it. They wanted to know the source of the rumours, so that they could address them directly. Seems to me, looking at that interview, and given what I was told at Expo, they should probably look in-house .....

and if their own staff are essentially saying they are in trouble, then it's no longer a rumour.

So essentially, we have thre possible situations.
All is fine and we'll get what we payd for - game and add ons (in due times or ... soon) - and all that financial trouble stuff is still a rumour.
We at least get the base game and then Prodos is officially on the rocks.
Who hasn't his game yet can hope, they'll get their games before Prodos officially declares bankruptcy.

No fun thing ...

Spoke to my FLGS today regarding my pre-order retail copy - he's not yet had any deliveries, but then he operates on buy or return policy - so no cash flow until goods are sold...despite this he recently had a prodos rep ask him if he would stock their stuff (despite him doing this anyway already...) Long and short of it was, he thinks that they're only servicing those orders that are pay-up-front (which suggests real cashflow problems), which suggests not-good things. As a result I cancelled my order, and am now seriously pondering not getting this at all. It's a toss up between what could be great minis (if I can get a good copy) vs getting a 'cut down' reduced retail box if I don't get it soon, and potentially buying a game that isn't that great to play, vs one that might be a Real collectors edition, if only for the wrong reasons (very few actually in circulation.)

If the 'cut down retail' version is cheaper, but you are mainly interested in the figures, go for it. The figures will b the same s in the current retail/KS version.

Played at a FLGS yesterday, owner suggested I have a look at "AVP:THB". I politely told them not to wind me up any further about it. interestingly, whilst they were aware that it was largely funded by ks backers, they were very surprised to hear that backers needed to wait until enough copies are sold at retail so that Prodos can afford to honor the ks pledges.

Like people said, I don't want to see prodos crippled either, perhaps now AVP is at retail they are in a better position. Cash flow kills companies fast. But on the flip side, Warzone should be selling and why develop the Starcraft IP at a time of financial uncertainty depending on the success of AVP's retail release.

Prodos is much more than just AVP, so I'm surprised that the financial benifits of withholding backers copies of AVP outweigh the damage to their reputation. Even if Prodos were to announce a Mass Effect line, (which I'd be all over) there is little chance I'd back it. "Kickstarter is not a store", however Kickstarter pledges on their webstore is a store.

I think Ive officially decided to never purchase another Prodos or Palladium product again after these two kickstarters. Well, I mean I have *something* to show from Robotech tactics at least, even if wave 2 never happens... but the fact that the product that I gave Prodos money for over a year ago is currently sitting in a distribution center somewhere but not being sent to me because theyd rather generate more income off new sales is infuriating (and they are creating some serious ill will amongst the people who would otherwise be most likely to continue to support their game, and by extension their company, in the future with further purchases).

The States might be ok. I'd have thought Ninja Divison would have been sent all they need to fulfill N.American backers. I think this is more a European / Rest of the World problem based on the interviews / updates.

I've yet to receive any sort of email or notification whatsoever regarding my pledge from Ninja Division. Nor have I seen any indication of other American backers receiving anything. If ND has everything they need to go ahead with fulfillment then they are sure taking their sweet time with it.

I feel the same, I've already done the same with studio mcvey stuff i had most of their ltd ed stuff ,but the debacle that was sedition wars turned me sour . This has done the same before all this me and my group were seriously looking at warzone so that probably at least 1k of sales lost

Got diddly so far...

I know that prodos are doing the production of minis for a number of other companys so alternate money lines are flowing into them seperate of warzone and AVP , panzerfauste from hysterical games aswell as 15mm marine tactical unit for white dragon games

So you're saying that Prodos' (alleged) cash flow problems could potentially affect other Kickstarter campaigns too?!?

 dekinrie wrote:
I know that prodos are doing the production of minis for a number of other companys so alternate money lines are flowing into them seperate of warzone and AVP , panzerfauste from hysterical games aswell as 15mm marine tactical unit for white dragon games

yup. other projects as well such as 3d printing for Micro Art Studio's kickstarter Wolsung, though it should be noted that MAS are reporting experiencing delays in receiving some of the prints from Prodos, thus delaying their project.

So now Prodos are getting a bad press from 3rd party customers let alone us backers.

I hadn't thought about them running a giant shell game/ponzi scheme with other business' money as well as backers, using new incoming money to pay for previous mistakes on their part while delaying the project(s) paid for. That's a scary potential situation.

 Alpharius wrote:
So you're saying that Prodos' (alleged) cash flow problems could potentially affect other Kickstarter campaigns too?!?

may already be happening - see above.

Only thing we can hope for is that one of Prodos projects turns out to be successful enough to infuse them with the cash needed to 'catch up' on their finances and get everything rolled out the door.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Only thing we can hope for is that one of Prodos projects turns out to be successful enough to infuse them with the cash needed to 'catch up' on their finances and get everything rolled out the door.

the irony being that this was probably the very project they expected (or at least hoped with good reason) would be their breakthrough product. It may yet be - I do hope that all the bad blood hasn't killed the game. If they can just get it out of the door, for all the issues they've had and for all our frustration, I'd hope and expect it to take off big time - if not as a board game (not convinced) then certainly as a wargame - I just hope they've learned from the errors of the boardgame rulebook and have gotten the wargame right.

I forget, didnt they say (months ago) that they already produced all the minis for this, not just the Wave 1 pieces but Wave 2 as well?

 dekinrie wrote:
I know that prodos are doing the production of minis for a number of other companys so alternate money lines are flowing into them seperate of warzone and AVP , panzerfauste from hysterical games aswell as 15mm marine tactical unit for white dragon games

Hysterical games is run by a Rob from Prodos btw.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I forget, didnt they say (months ago) that they already produced all the minis for this, not just the Wave 1 pieces but Wave 2 as well?

yes they did, but they recently stated that the wave 1 minis had been redesigned towards the end of the process to reduce them from approximately 7 parts down to 2-3. This mean trashing the 115000+ minis they'd already produced for wave 1 and had been sitting in boxes gathering dust for months. It may be the need to remake these minis that's slowing production of complete box games right now. Guessing this was Fox demanding minis that were simpler to construct, it shouldn't mean they have to do the same with wave 2 which you are right, is also sitting gathering dust, at least most of it is. We never have seen youngbloods, clear preds, predator objective markers, 3d terrain or faction specific dice, so who knows where they are with those items.

biggusdoggus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I forget, didnt they say (months ago) that they already produced all the minis for this, not just the Wave 1 pieces but Wave 2 as well?

yes they did, but they recently stated that the wave 1 minis had been redesigned towards the end of the process to reduce them from approximately 7 parts down to 2-3. This mean trashing the 115000+ minis they'd already produced for wave 1 and had been sitting in boxes gathering dust for months. It may be the need to remake these minis that's slowing production of complete box games right now. Guessing this was Fox demanding minis that were simpler to construct, it shouldn't mean they have to do the same with wave 2 which you are right, is also sitting gathering dust, at least most of it is. We never have seen youngbloods, clear preds, predator objective markers, 3d terrain or faction specific dice, so who knows where they are with those items.

That would be an incredibly stupid thing to do... to scrap thousands of minis just to remake them again at your own cost voluntarily to make things easier for the backers.. who, you know, they haven't cared about for months before and after. The simpler and more consistent answer given their recent history is that they just didn't make them and lied about it. We'll never know the truth though...

 warboss wrote:

biggusdoggus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I forget, didnt they say (months ago) that they already produced all the minis for this, not just the Wave 1 pieces but Wave 2 as well?

yes they did, but they recently stated that the wave 1 minis had been redesigned towards the end of the process to reduce them from approximately 7 parts down to 2-3. This mean trashing the 115000+ minis they'd already produced for wave 1 and had been sitting in boxes gathering dust for months. It may be the need to remake these minis that's slowing production of complete box games right now. Guessing this was Fox demanding minis that were simpler to construct, it shouldn't mean they have to do the same with wave 2 which you are right, is also sitting gathering dust, at least most of it is. We never have seen youngbloods, clear preds, predator objective markers, 3d terrain or faction specific dice, so who knows where they are with those items.

That would be an incredibly stupid thing to do... to scrap thousands of minis just to remake them again at your own cost voluntarily to make things easier for the backers.. who, you know, they haven't cared about for months before and after. The simpler and more consistent answer given their recent history is that they just didn't make them and lied about it. We'll never know the truth though...

But... there were photos of the minis, werent there? Boxes and boxes and boxes (and more boxes) of them?? Maybe this is why Prodos is in such dire financial straights? They can't exactly reprocess resin minis into new minis (I mean, you can grind up resin minis into a fine powder and use it to cut liquid resin, but you're talking probably 5-10% of the total volume of the resin at best) nor can they recoup labor costs to produce them... thats a pretty significant monetary investment that Prodos had to take on the chin if its at all true (not that I have much sympathy, had they managed the project better from the start and been more careful with the approvals process none of this crap would have happened).

Yes there were lots of boxes, and even video of a Prodos employee tearing them open and throwing the contents around like a child as if to say "here they fething are!" to the backers.

Unfortunately they did it all long before Fox came back to them and said they needed to be fewer pieces and have the copyright stuff on them (which I think they put on the bases, right?).

I would not be surprised if all those minis got scrapped.

Even if they did need to produce new miniatures for the box game, that wouldn't mean they would have to throw them out. They could use them to fulfill is backers wave two add-ons. Would be such a waste otherwise.

 Grumpae wrote:
Even if they did need to produce new minister s for the box game, that wouldn't mean they would have to throw them out. They could use them to fulfill is backers wave two add-ons. Would be such a waste otherwise.

Unless Fox demanded that all of the miniatures be fewer parts.

^Yup, they would be risking serious legal ramifications if they did something like that without Fox's approval.

I'm just thinking Fox may be more lenient for the backer only stuff. Also might give a bit more variety to the models. If they can't use them, c'est la vi. Their own damn fault for making a ton of inventory that wasn't approved.