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Mavnas wrote:
Question: is the Celestian AoF so good that the 5 of them are better than a command squad? If not, you could give your unit FNP and/or an extra attack each.

Cost and FNP not being terribly effective on T3 models. If you drop the Sacred Banner it's about the same cost, but then you're missing out on an attack with the Hospitaller and you don't get to be S4 on the charge. FNP will help, but it will only really apply to attacks that you're probably going to get an Armour Save against anyway. AP1/AP2 and even alot of AP3 stuff tends to be S6+ anyway, so no FNP since you are being Insta Death from T3. Command Squad Act of Faith is also really really situational, to the point of uselessness, since Fleet and Move through Cover will only apply to the Charge Move. Crusader will only help if you win combat, the enemy fails morale, and you actually wanted to sweep them.

The only benefit I could see to a Command Squad is that any Celestian in the unit that's not carrying a banner or simulacrum can take a power weapon. 4 Power Axes and a Sacred Banner could be pretty sweet. 20 S4 AP2 swings on the charge from the Celestians with re-rolls to hit and wound from Priests might ruin someone's day.

The benefit i prefer with the command squad is the ability to take 5 meltas/flamers in the unit. So they are extremely effective when not in assautl, which is most of the time.

 deviantduck wrote:
The benefit i prefer with the command squad is the ability to take 5 meltas/flamers in the unit. So they are extremely effective when not in assautl, which is most of the time.

That is a point, however Dominions can do the same and get the benefit of far superior Act of Faith as well as the Scout rule.

I usually take the command Squad with 5 Heavy Bolters:

Retributors can only take 4, Reding is ok, but 1ce a game, but the main reason is: Fill a Heavy Support slot.

Rending can be twice a game, and is the thing that makes heavy bolters versatile. Without it, they're a bit lackluster against heavily armored armies (Pretty much everything I've fought).

- Dominions do special weapons better than command.
- Rets do Heavies better if you can afford the heavy slot.
- Command squads have a Canoness tax which makes them MUCH more expensive than any other heavy squad unless you were already taking a canoness (and why would you unless you were looking for a cheap HQ)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
Rending can be twice a game, and is the thing that makes heavy bolters versatile. Without it, they're a bit lackluster against heavily armored armies (Pretty much everything I've fought).

Also, keep in mind that Rets synergize very nicely with Bastions. I'm running Bastion with Void and Ammo Dump (external)

1-2 Extra heavy bolters, AV14 shell with Void, reroll all 1's on Rets and any other units within 2" of the ammo dump (generally exorcists). It's a nasty little firebase.

Now you're making me want a Bastion too...

Bastion is a VERY good option for SOB. The emplaced HB can be manually fired by Retributors. Depending on where your opponent is, that's 1-2 extra heavy bolters with rending. If you put a quad-gun on top, you can also manually fire that. Muhahahah

I just have suspension of disbelief problems with "oh look, my army just happens to find a fortified structure of the exact same type within heavy bolter range of the enemy every time we fight."

It's dropped like a drop pod! Same aerodynamics in any case.

Aerodynamics are HERESY.

 Shandara wrote:
It's dropped like a drop pod! Same aerodynamics in any case.

I think this is in the fluff, isn't it? Most of the fortifications are just air-dropped.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Aerodynamics are HERESY.

That would explain a lot actually.

Maybe it's the same structure and the enemy just keeps coming to try to take it?

Mavnas wrote:
Maybe it's the same structure and the enemy just keeps coming to try to take it?

That's actually pretty likely as well.

Fighting tends to happen where the enemy is.

Well, in Planetstrike you can actually take a drop-bastion as a stratagem...

EDIT - dumb question, sorry

 SisterSydney wrote:
I just have suspension of disbelief problems with "oh look, my army just happens to find a fortified structure of the exact same type within heavy bolter range of the enemy every time we fight."

No i also really agree on the "Airdrop" part of this.... Without any aerodynamics at all, just leap of faith for the bastion.
I'm sure the retributors are inside already when it drops

Now to glue some retro-thrusters on mine....

 BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
I just have suspension of disbelief problems with "oh look, my army just happens to find a fortified structure of the exact same type within heavy bolter range of the enemy every time we fight."

No i also really agree on the "Airdrop" part of this.... Without any aerodynamics at all, just leap of faith for the bastion.
I'm sure the retributors are inside already when it drops

Now to glue some retro-thrusters on mine....

Battles usually happen around things that are valuable. A fortified position is valuable. That's why mine is always next to an objective.

I just model my Bastions to look like they were dropped from orbit. It just makes sense.

SJ

So has anyone considered allying in the new SW flyers? One is an assault transport with a cap of 16. Both seem slightly cheaper than a Land Raider.

Mavnas wrote:
So has anyone considered allying in the new SW flyers? One is an assault transport with a cap of 16. Both seem slightly cheaper than a Land Raider.

So counter-question, what does that give that a Land Raider Crusader doesn't?

More mobility the turn before the charge, harder to pop by some armies (easier for others), can do AA duties, but you lose the assault grenades that are helpful to DCAs.

also depending on the environment you play in, you might not be allowed to ally in both an inquisitor and SW (though without being able to auto-take Hammerhand...) We'd have to see the new rules for SW ICs to see if this is a big loss.

SW's previous codex was known for having inexpensive Terminators that were 7 points cheaper than their SM counterparts. If the new codex retains that feature, SW would be an ideal ally for Sisters of Battle. Sisters lacks strong assault units and flyers.

It's a good thing my main armies are SW and SOB.

Mavnas wrote:
More mobility the turn before the charge, harder to pop by some armies (easier for others), can do AA duties, but you lose the assault grenades that are helpful to DCAs.

also depending on the environment you play in, you might not be allowed to ally in both an inquisitor and SW (though without being able to auto-take Hammerhand...) We'd have to see the new rules for SW ICs to see if this is a big loss.

Problem with the flyer is the same as with the Land Raider: Getting into it.

To put any of your SoB squads inside, it would have to arrive first, probably in hover, and embark the troops. Then you fly across (or hover further) and then exit out from hover mode.
It just seems hard to do without dying on the way or something...

Whereas jumping into a LR you've deployed right behind of in Turn 1 just seems... simple.

If its not a dedicated transport, you can just nominate that your Sisters Units are starting deployed inside the transport.

Are the SW flyers Dedicated Transports or do they take up a Force Slot (like Fast Attack or Heavy Support)?

We don know yet.

Rumors seem to indicate that the answer to that question is yes. (They can be taken in a slot or a few of the units can take them as dedicated transports.) obviously, if they are dedicated transports their utility to SoB units would be minimal.

Playing around with some ideas for competitive lists, I liked this Knight-Immo spam list. It lacks AA, but with the TL Multimeltas on the Immos it isn't totally helpless. Since the Knights are the primary detachment they are super scoring along with the rest of the list.

3 Knight Paladins (Warlord) (1125)
Canoness (65)
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
5 Battle Sisters, 2 flamers, Immolator with TLMM and dozer blades
(2000)


In all 15 super scoring units, plenty of anti-horde and anti-tank.
The question is: competitive TAAC, or does it lack too much?