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I thought the whole AS purchase thing was a joke...

 ncshooter426 wrote:
I thought the whole AS purchase thing was a joke...

I guess at this point we've been waiting so long that we're willing to try anything!

D

Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.

PanzerLeader wrote:
Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.

I would love to hear the summaries

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.

I would love to hear the summaries

+1

Yea, I like summaries. They help me to fine tune my armies when I see bat reps in print (both mine and other people's)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That, and they tend to be good reads

PanzerLeader wrote:
Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.

If you could take a few minutes (or more like 3H...) to type up a relatively detailed summary of those battles, it would be greatly appreciated

It helps us all improve our own tactics!

PanzerLeader wrote:
Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.

If you can be good to read

This is from memory, so I reproduced it the best I could. I'll summarize my major learning points in a later post. All missions were ETC style, so you played an Eternal War + a Maelstorm + Kill Point Difference. The normal three bonus points also applied. Hope this helps.

Game 1 vs Nathan’s drop pod Salamanders and allied AM

Opponents List
Bike chapter master
Terminator Librarian
Techmarine
Command Squad, 5x meltagun, drop pod
Tac Squad, melta, combi melta, drop pod
Bike squad, 2x melta
Assault squad, 2x flamer, drop pod
Assault squad, 2x flamer, drop pod
Devastators with 3x lascannon

Company Command Squad, Master of Ordnance, Lascannon
2x Psykers
2x Priests
20 Conscripts
20 man blob with 2 autocannons
Triple lascannon team
Platoon command squad with 4x snipers
Wyvern

Mission was Crusade + Cleanse & Control + Kill Point Differential and deployment was vanguard strike. Crusade objectives were roughly one in each table quarter and they also counted as Maelstorm 1-4. Maelstorm 5 & 6 were towards the center of the board. Nathan won the roll and choose to deploy first. He deployed fairly central, able to threaten two crusade objectives with his 20 man squads while his lascannon squads and CCS. I deployed bubbled up in a corner sitting on one crusade objective with the wyverns and looking to take the other two with dominion squads and BSS squads later in the game.

Nathan opened by trying to drop his command squad into a very tight corner in my lines behind my Wyverns and in between my chimera and a BSS rhino. They promptly scattered off the board and Nathan rolled a 1, giving me the easiest First Blood point of the day. The tac squad then conducted a much safer landing in front of the Wyverns, able to get within 6” but I’d still get 4+ cover from the ruin. He shuffled some units around and advanced with both blobs. His shooting killed 1 of my Wyverns and knocked the turret off one of my exorcists.

The game went back and forth from there. My Veterans and BBS squads would clean up the drop pods and marines as they landed and eventually Celestine was able to kill off the blob on my right flank (lined up the charge so I’d hit the priest first, killed him and swept the blob when they broke) and then tie up the tech marines blob, letting me slip around the side of them with an exorcist to take three of the four crusade objectives.

Game ended with me up winning Crusade 9-3, losing Maelstorm 6-8 and getting 2 points from the KP differential. I also had First Blood and Linebreaker and Nathan had Linebreaker. Final score was 19-12, giving me 14 battle points under the ETC format.

Game 2 vs Ian’s Tyrant Legion (Astral Claw themed White Scars and allied AM)

Opponents List
Bike Chapter Master
Khan
Max size bike squad with 2x grav, MM attack bike, combi grav (he combat squaded, putting all the specials on the board with the chaptermaster and outflanking all the normal bikes with Khan).
2x10 tactical marines in Rhinos, both with lascannons, one melta gun, one plasma gun
Fire Raptor

Company Command Squad with lascannon and master of ordnance
Platoon Command Squad with 4x snipers
Blob squad with 2x lascannons
Psyker
2x Wyverns

Mission was Scouring (modified to two 3’s, two 2’s, and two 1’s) + Deadlock (the one where you start with 6 active objectives and the number decreases by one each turn) + Kill Point differential. Deployment was Vanguard Strike again. I won the roll to go first and deployed centrally, with decent field of fires around the central ruin and in a balanced line, with an exorcist in the center and on each flank supported by dominions in the center. Wyverns were on the left to range his objectives. I won the roll to scout first and scouted my dominions aggressively into the center ruin, essentially trapping Ian’s scouts in his own deployment zone. With everything set for a first turn ambush, Ian seized on me. D’oh!

Turn one, Ian immobilized one Dominion immolator and knocked at least one wyvern out and shook a couple exorcists. My dominions sacrificed themselves to take out the bikes with the chapter master (ignore cover for the win) but I got little else done.

The game went back and forth, with Celestine putting pressure on his backfield and my battle sister squads and veterans holding my backfield against the bikes and one of the tactical squads. I ended up giving up the central objective (worth 1 point) to Ian because I was running out of units.

At the end of the game, my Veterans held a two pointer in my deployment zone and one BSS held a three pointer while the remnants of my second ten girl BSS squad contested a one pointer against a marine tactical squad. Even though Celestine died at the top of the final turn, she put ensure pressure into his backfield that I was able to sneak an OBSEC Rhino through unmolested and Ian had to use his 20 man OBSEC blob to contest his 3 pointer and thus leave his 2 pointer unclaimed.

Final score was 5-5 on Scouring (I held a 3 point and a 2 point, Ian held a 1 point and had killed 4 FA choices), I won Maelstorm 11-8, Ian had 2 VPs for the Kill Point difference and I had Linebreaker and Warlord and Ian had First Blood. Final score was Sisters 18, Marines 16, giving me 11 battle points to Ian’s 9.

Game 3 vs Justin’s Tyranids

Opponents List
2x Flyrant
1x Malanthrope
3x Hive Guard
1x Exocrine
1x Tyrannofex
2x Zoanthrope
1x Tervigon
10x Termagaunt
1x Carnifex
1x Tyrannocite
2x1 Muclids
1x Hive Crone

Mission was Relic (worth 6 VP for holding) + Spoils of War + Kill Point Differential. Deployment was Dawn of War. I won the roll to deploy first and set up with two exorcists on the right and one on the far left, covering two maelstorm objectives and able to shoot around the LOS blocking piece in the center. My dominions and Celestine went into the center, supported by one of the BSS squads and the veterans. The other BSS squad went into reserves. The Wyverns went back center to sit on a third maelstorm objective.

Justin deployed centrally around a ruin in his deployment zone. Everything was clustered around the malanthrope, except the Tyrannocite with carnifex and muclids who went into reserve. I scouted the dominions up behind the LOS blocking ruin in the middle. Justin did not seize. This time, the Sister ambush worked. The dominions moved up and had easy range to his warlord flyrant. Celestine moved center, staying out of LOS but blocking the relic. The BSS squad moved up behind her. The dominions passed their acts of faith and killed the flyrant, netting First Blood and Warlord for me. Their immolators then moved flatout to screen them from the bulk of Justin’s shooting. The Wyverns put one wound on the malanthrope and the rest of my shooting predictably bounced off the mass 2+ cover.

Justin was able to wreck both immolators in response and kill off 8 of the 10 dominions with a good psychic scream. He sent his remaining flyrant and crone out towards my right flank. One my turn, Celestine came out over the center ruined and assaulted the hive guard, killing 2. The Wyverns put a wound on the zoanthropes and with Justin’s army still clustered tightly around the malanthrope, the exorcists shot at the FMCs and put a wound on the flyrant.

Justin charged Celestine with the tyrannofex, but not before she killed the last hive guard. Celestine would pass act of faith. The Flyrant wrecked a Rhino. His Tyrannocite scattered off the board and rolled a “1” on the mishap table. More importantly, Justin broke up his castle by pressing the exocrine to my right and his tervigon to my left to go after some maelstorm objectives.

Turn three was the decisive swing. Celestine charged the malanthrope, locking him in the backfield. The command squad and one exorcist combined to kill the exocrine and the other two exorcists took 5 of 6 wounds off the Tyrannofex in the open. The hive crone had to glide to reposition for a turn four run against the Vendetta and would be killed by massed exorcists the next turn. I was also able to get a BSS squad on to the relic hidden by the LOS blocking terrain and their Rhino. They would reembark next turn and slowly move away from the nid lines thanks to normal movement and vehicle flat out moves. By the end of turn 4, Justin was down to the wounded Flyrant and a spawned out tervigon.

I won the Relic (6-0), won Maelstorm15-6, won KP difference by 6 and had all three bonus while Justin only claimed Warlord. Final score was 30-7, giving me 20 battle points.

Thanks for the summary!

Yeah man good stuff

So here are my lessons learned from this weekend:

1) I was pleasantly surprised by how resilient the 10 girl BSS squads were. Its just a lot of bodies for most armies to shift, especially since the mobility they get from the Rhino usually lets me get them into a more even match up (i.e. another troop choice or a weaker squad rather than something that will just mop the floor with them). I'm going to stick with the 10 girl squads for now, as I think I'd rather have more bodies on the right objective than the additional OBSEC unit or two.

2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.

3) I really, really liked having the random BSS sister as my warlord. First, it let me get a better trait from the book than Celestine's fixed one. I rolled on tactical once and got the ability to discard an extra tactical objective every turn (very useful for cycling through the deck to get more achievable ones) and the other two games went strategic and got +1 to seize, reroll reserves both times. Second, it made denying slay the warlord relatively easy. She only died in one game and her squad went virtually untargeted in most games. I also kept her squad in reserves twice, once with a deliberate plan to roll on to a crusade objective in my backfield anyway and once to counter the outflanking Khan and secure my backfield scouring objective. She only died in my game against the Nids and that was mostly because I had a turn of extraordinarily poor armor saves (failed 7 out 12 saves and she was sixth in line). Third, she let me play Celestine super-aggressively which leads to...

4) Super-aggressively playing Celestine makes for a helluva disruption unit. I was really pleased with her, even though her damage was under whelming in game two (died to a plasma gun in overwatch and then after resurrecting only managed to take down the opposing CCS before dieing the death of 10,000 flash lights). I used her as a bully unit, threatening units without ID threats to her and, over the course of 3 games, she killed a 20 man blob, a 5 man assault squad, a handful of tac marines, a CCS, ~15 termagaunts, 3 hive guard, a malanthrope and took 4 of 6 wounds off a Tervigon. The terrain made her relatively easy to hide and at least 2 opponents were very sad faced when I reminded them that the cool looking, killy model they had just invested a ton of time beating down was not the warlord.

Hope that helps some guys. I'll be taking my current list or a slight variation of it to Templecon in about a week and half. If anyone else is going, let me know and we can talk Sisters over a proper drink.

PanzerLeader wrote:
So here are my lessons learned from this weekend:
2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.

Remember that they can't give orders while embarked.

Mavnas wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
So here are my lessons learned from this weekend:
2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.

Remember that they can't give orders while embarked.

They can if they're in a Chimera - it has the Mobile Command Vehicle special rule. You actually get slightly better range on your orders too, since you measure range from the hull of the Chimera.

@ Mavnas: goonbandito nailed it. The Chimera lets the CCS still issue orders while protecting them from S5 and below shooting. Also makes it a little easier to synchronize the CCS and the veterans.

Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....

Also, poor Tyranid player! I'd love to understand better why things fell apart so horribly on Turn 3 for the big ugly bugs. Sounds like Exorcists vs. Monsters went very well. I also get the impression that their "castle up around the Malanthrope" formation screwed them with getting Maelstrom objectives (which requires mobility & flexibility), yet they broke formation and lost concentration of force before they had either secured the Relic or broken your army, denying them the Eternal War and Kill Point VPs. Am I diagnosing this more or less right?

Also also, the ETC scoring system is CONFUSING.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....

Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)

Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)

Mavnas wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....

Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)

Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)

I've had very similar experiences with driving empty Rhinos up the back field.... Or Weapons destroyed immolators for that matter...

They work exceedingly well at capturing, as you say, but also tank shocking/ramming backfield Units. The best example being 3 Obliterators failing their morale test and running off-board on Turn 4 or 5.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....

Also, poor Tyranid player! I'd love to understand better why things fell apart so horribly on Turn 3 for the big ugly bugs. Sounds like Exorcists vs. Monsters went very well. I also get the impression that their "castle up around the Malanthrope" formation screwed them with getting Maelstrom objectives (which requires mobility & flexibility), yet they broke formation and lost concentration of force before they had either secured the Relic or broken your army, denying them the Eternal War and Kill Point VPs. Am I diagnosing this more or less right?

Also also, the ETC scoring system is CONFUSING.

You've got it. I had a large Maelstorm lead at that point and I think the bug player felt pressured to do something to catch up. So he broke out of his ruins cover on about a 270 degree arc, with the tyrannofex and the tervigon on the far right and the exocrine on the far left with the malanthrope center. He didn't manage to suppress the vendetta or the exorcists that turn though. It left the exocrine exposed to the vendetta + CCS and one exorcist and the tyrannofex out of cover facing down two 2 exorcists. He was also never able to pressure the BSS squad that grabbed the relic. I think if he had conceded maelstorm to me and focused on pushing up the middle as a large group he could probably have grabbed the relic. The terrain in the center would have blocked a decent amount of my fire power. I think he was loathe to do this because he would have basically sacrificed all his shooting for a couple of turns as LOS would be mutually blocked.

 BlackTalos wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....

Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)

Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)

I've had very similar experiences with driving empty Rhinos up the back field.... Or Weapons destroyed immolators for that matter...

They work exceedingly well at capturing, as you say, but also tank shocking/ramming backfield Units. The best example being 3 Obliterators failing their morale test and running off-board on Turn 4 or 5.

Hell, with my Space Wolves, my secret weapon versus Tau is my Rhinos. In one game, I ran 500pts worth of Tau off the board with one Rhino.

What ever happened to blessed ammunition? Rolled into AoF for Dom, or does it still exist in some capacity?

Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....

Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher

which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?

Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!

I don't see priest in your list. Nine sisters and a priest is a pretty tough unit. I give mine plasma guns, but I am just crazy like that.

9 sisters and a plasma priest is pretty expensive for a meh unit.

Fixed2bbroken wrote:
Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....

Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher

which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?

Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!

Take another CAD and get more Exorcists and Dominions :>

Imperial Guard make great Allies because they have something to cover almost any gap. Need cheap bodies to clog the board? Blob up some Infantry Squads/Conscripts. Looking for some Plasma to roll alongside your mechanised Sisters? Veteran Squads with 3 Plasma Guns in Chimeras are your answer. Need long range Anti-Tank? Lascannons everywhere. Need a flyer? Vendetta's are still pretty sweet despite their nerf (or more properly, their re-balancing). Want some heavy armour? Get those Leman Russ models out.

Codex: Inquisition also has some neat little tricks, with dirt cheap options for special and heavy weapons, Land Raiders, old school Chimeras (the ones where 5 models can fire out of the top hatch), some decent Psychic support and can make better use of those Death Cult Assassin and Crusader models than Codex: Adepta Sororitas.

Fixed2bbroken wrote:
Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....

Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher

which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?

Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!

As GoonBandito says: you can go for more allies: a Second Sister CAD or pick from Inquisition/Guard.

If you want to stick with Sisters:
Celestine+Seraphim get nuked in ~2000pts (IMHO), so you could change up some stuff there.

Jacobus + Many Priests + 20x battle sister is a very nice replacement. And they even work very well with Celestine at the front. (That's already a pile of points added)

Also, look at getting a cheap Canoness (pretty much vanilla) + Command Squad with 5 Heavy Bolters + Buy a Bastion with Icarus Las or Quad Gun.
Canoness can hit on 2s with the Gun emplacement or use one of the emplaced Heavy bolters while you shoot another 5 HB. This works quite well if you can drop an exorcist and take Retributors, too. Because you can then get a rending Quad Gun. Think of a Void shield for the Bastion then, too.

Also, as you are MSU, taking Jacobus+20-girl Squad means another Dominion Squad and you can also take another two 5x battle sister + transport if needed.

A lot of these will push you past 2000pts so you need to think around getting it lower

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Seraphim at 2k. Agreed.

Second cad could be nasty. Also, a Fort with Skyfire, might be useful as well.

I usually ally in, but second cad is probably nastier.

As for priests? Not for me unless you're taking a blob squad or something else smashy. Otherwise, keep your BSS small.


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Something like:
Celestine
BSS (5) with M/HF in Transport
BSS (5) with M/HF in Transport
Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport
Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport
Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

Uriah
BSS 5 with M/HF in Transport
BSS 5 with M/HF in Transport
Rets with 4 HB and Simulacrum
Firestorm Redoubt with Magos

Add more exos if you have points, etc.

Curious: Why no Seraphim in higher-points games? Is it that there's so much stuff in the enemy's backfield at 2,000 points that it'd be suicide to Deep Strike in there? Or that there's so much long-range anti-personnel fire that infantry without an armored transport are toast? Or something else?

The second one. That and dominions just do a better job.

I'd suggest 2 different units.

1. Avengers are amazing flyers. You already have your heavies, but just a suggestion on that one.

2. Priest + Crusaders is a tarpit that can freeze anything.