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Aye, I already have some of those spare, made a Hydra with the one I got. So might nab that idea.

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I forgot how bad the latest kits have all been.... oh wait.
At this point I assume they own stock in tinfoil too

Woke up this morning to all this amazing info! Still keeping my fingers crossed for Genestealers and Warriors getting some boost. Both have been rumored to stay the same?

I am hoping that Adrenal Glands grant Furious Charge but also Assault Grenade bonus. That change alone would buff Genestealers quite a bit. Adrenal Glands getting better are likely in my mind, given that they cost +2pts for Termagants now.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I forgot how bad the latest kits have all been.... oh wait.
At this point I assume they own stock in tinfoil too

Recent releases which have not been OP to sell models off the top of my head:

Tau: Flyer thingy.
DA: Flyer. Terminators with Mace/Shield.
Chaos: The Chaos Release except Helldrakes
Daemons: Chariots

Etc, so on.



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rollawaythestone wrote:
I am hoping that Adrenal Glands grant Furious Charge but also Assault Grenade bonus.

What about adrenal glands says assault grenade bonus to you?

rollawaythestone wrote:
I am hoping that Adrenal Glands grant Furious Charge but also Assault Grenade bonus.

 pretre wrote:
What about adrenal glands says assault grenade bonus to you?

My wishful thinking! They used to give a bonus to Initiative, so I could see that bonus reflecting no drop in initiative when assaulting through terrain.

 Commander Cain wrote:

Noctem wrote:
I agree, the head is very silly, kind of disappointed they copy pasted the head on all the big bugs!

That was my first thought seeing the Harpy and other big beasty. The head looks very out of place imo.

I find this very strange. Its like being disappointed that a giant human has a human head.

I'm just hoping that they address some of the core problems with the current book rather than just making everything cheaper and adding some new "MC +1" models and calling it good.

Any word on the author?

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

-C6

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on the author?

"Games workshop design team"

That could explain the myriad of conflicting "playtest rumors" we've heard about this book all year.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on the author?

"Games workshop design team"

That could explain the myriad of conflicting "playtest rumors" we've heard about this book all year.

Heh, so they are dropping the single name on the book system then? Guess they got tired of people blaming Ward

 catharsix wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

-C6

This would be a perfectly reasonable argument if it weren't for smaller companies with games of similar levels of complexity and access to lower levels of resources doing a perfectly adequate job of not breaking their own games.

 catharsix wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Not shocked, genestealers have saturated the market since 2nd edition like Berserkers have for chaos, there is no market for making them playable sadly.

Yeah, sucks. I honestly thought hormagaunts were due to be broken this edition.

Or the whole 'GW only makes things powerful to sell more of them' thing is just a tin-foil hat type thing.

I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

-C6

Or as Ol' Hanlon liked to say: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

That is a pretty convoluted defense of GW's lack of playtesting, catharsix!

And while I agree with pretre that most such things can be attributed to stupidity, even with regards to GW, it's undeniable that flyers were the new hoteness when 6th edition hit (and also new releases for many armies) whereas rhinos and the like were pretty useless, the opposite of 5th edition.

The same happens with fantasy where hand weapon and shield is awesome one edition, and spears the next.

This is something most companies do so it's not unique to GW, but it's not pure coincidence either!

 catharsix wrote:
I think you're right here P - GW doesn't do nearly enough playtesting of any new codex to figure out what is truly overpowered. It takes a little time after the new rules drop and the legions of 40k players start trying out various combinations for the truly broken units/combos to emerge. With any system that has as many internal variables (within the rules - so variables that GW can theoretically control) and so many external variables (chance/dice, the idiosyncrasies of various players, terrain, etc. that GW can not possibly control) there's no realistic way to absolutely prevent something or another being broken.

The only way to deal with it would be doing tons and tons of playtesting, and once the broken units emerge from the aggregate data, then you can try to revise them. Of course that puts you back at square one - you then need to playtest the heck out of those revisions. So GW's relatively minimal playtesting might be seen as an entirely reasonable policy acknowledging the futility of preventing any broken units/combos.

Absolutely prevent? No. No one is saying that can or should happen.
Have better balance? Absolutely. And it's not some pipe dream - a company with GWs revenue stream should have playtesters on staff - they don't just play normal games, they test individual model shooting phases over and over against a set target, etc. There are probably over a hundred people who would volunteer to do it in their free time - I know I would and I know others that would as well.

These pictures have already got gears turning in my head for what I want my army to change... Two tyrannofexes supported by an exocrine, hordes of hormagaunts, hordes of gargoyles supported by crones, led by a flyrant and a trygon prime, maybe more warriors... So much to digest already and the book isn't even out yet. I really hope Venom Cannons are worth taking now, and not just a fluffy choice.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
These pictures have already got gears turning in my head for what I want my army to change... Two tyrannofexes supported by an exocrine, hordes of hormagaunts, hordes of gargoyles supported by crones, led by a flyrant and a trygon prime, maybe more warriors... So much to digest already and the book isn't wen ou yet. I really hope Venom Cannons are worth taking now, and not just a fluffy choice.

Whatever happens, the doom-mongers will monger their doom, but this is one of the most exciting, diverse releases in years. Good to see GW's recruitment of more design staff, and new production machinery, gives us the opportunity to rework our army, using our existing troops in a new context. (Now, I just hope Orks get something similar in the spring).

I'm just happy I get to add more bodies to my Nidzilla list... the loss of spores makes me a sad panda though...

I like all of these new models except for the Tyrant guard. If the new rules are good, my CSM army may get traded away for lots of bugs.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
These pictures have already got gears turning in my head for what I want my army to change... Two tyrannofexes supported by an exocrine, hordes of hormagaunts, hordes of gargoyles supported by crones, led by a flyrant and a trygon prime, maybe more warriors... So much to digest already and the book isn't wen ou yet. I really hope Venom Cannons are worth taking now, and not just a fluffy choice.

Whatever happens, the doom-mongers will monger their doom, but this is one of the most exciting, diverse releases in years. Good to see GW's recruitment of more design staff, and new production machinery, gives us the opportunity to rework our army, using our existing troops in a new context. (Now, I just hope Orks get something similar in the spring).

Stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it less your opinion.

While I think they're perfectly nice models, and as I have a number of Nid players locally this is about as relevant an update as it gets without it being one of my own factions, for people to be concerned that either the army will be underpowered or broken in its new incarnation, given GW's track record in that area, is far from doom-mongering and more under "justifiable anxiety" at this point.

A couple of dual kits and a few re-dos is no more "exciting or diverse" than anything else GW has done in some time, but you keep on knighting your white and trying to dismiss other's concerns as irrelevant just because they don't bother you.

 xttz wrote:
A better Haruspex image:

Very nice one of my favourite models so far!


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 tetrisphreak wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Any word on the author?

"Games workshop design team"

That could explain the myriad of conflicting "playtest rumors" we've heard about this book all year.

I thought it it was Adam took? Wasn't it?

Why does every new head have its tongue sticking out? It just looks ridiculous in my eyes. The concepts are all great and definitely an improvement though.

I have to agree that I'm not seeing a lot of diversity or surprises here. Seems like a solid release but nothing unexpected... one heavy, one flyer, warriors, and hive guard, all dual kits.

It looks solid to me but GW really is consistent in their release patterns at the moment, for both 40k and fantasy... and it can be a little stale. But it's hard to mess up nids, I'm super excited regardless

My first thought was the model designer must have been a fan of Skyfall.

PastelAvenger wrote:
Why does every new head have its tongue sticking out? I

It's a nid thing. Also, they don't all have their tongues sticking out.

PastelAvenger wrote:
Why does every new head have its tongue sticking out? It just looks ridiculous in my eyes. The concepts are all great and definitely an improvement though.

Good point I didn't notice. Maybe it's some type of new trend?

What's that big spike gun that Hive Guard is holding? Any word on it?

GW has always been about analogues between armies. Look at the original Eldar and Space Marines. You'd think they're very different, but pretty much every unit has an analogue on the other army. Chaos works the same way considering they're just spiky marines with different wargear. With their second "Tau Empire" codex, they got in line with the same archetypes, and recently Necrons too.

In the past, GW was homogenizing armies by giving strict transports to Necrons, Warp Spiders to Grey Knights, GravTanks to IG, allies to everyone, etc. It has only become blatantly obvious with the MC + flier + updatedinfantry releases that they're simply updating every army now in parallel.

Post pruned; stay polite, please. --Janthkin

So - any updates on whether there's an option to run gargoyles as troops?

PastelAvenger wrote:
Why does every new head have its tongue sticking out? It just looks ridiculous in my eyes. The concepts are all great and definitely an improvement though.

It's most likely for the WYSIWYG effect. If there's a specific head tied to how a specific upgrade should look it makes things readily identifiable.