Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**Redemption**

Fearless doesn't mean you auto-pass Instinctive Behaviour tests.

**skarsol**

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.

Nothing in the Carnifex entry modifies its IB at all.

**NamelessBard**

skarsol wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is the hive tyrant mastery level 2?

ML2, no option to upgrade.

Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?

**B0B MaRlEy**

Eyjio wrote:
MadmanMSU wrote:
Iechine wrote:
*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant*

Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come!

*Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it*

Tyrant: Dont you do it!

*Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...*

Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble!

Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.

Carnifexes are fearless (supposedly)...

...but I still laughed at this.

Fearless doesn't help with instinctive behaviour. Most nid MCs are fearless.

Luckily the hits from the IB are AP- , otherwise a carnifex brood could almost eat a whole carnifex off ...

**MadmanMSU**

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Eyjio wrote:
ductvader wrote:
Eyjio wrote:
One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.

Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.

I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.

So stay in synapse?

I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.

Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?

Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.

Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?

Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.

Well that sucks.

**skarsol**

NamelessBard wrote:
skarsol wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is the hive tyrant mastery level 2?

ML2, no option to upgrade.

Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?

Edit: WD = 2 TL BL, wings for 230. 165 + 35 + 15 + 15 = 230.

**Eyjio**

NamelessBard wrote:
skarsol wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is the hive tyrant mastery level 2?

ML2, no option to upgrade.

Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?

It was 230, so presumably it's 35 flying, 15 per TL devourer.

**ductvader**

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.

Fail LD 7
Roll 1- 3
Roll 2-6 to wound
Roll 1-2 to fail save

6% of the time, that's not bad.

12% of the time a hormagaunt will kill himself. A near 1/9 chance is an acceptable risk as well.

**Eyjio**

skarsol wrote:
NamelessBard wrote:
skarsol wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is the hive tyrant mastery level 2?

ML2, no option to upgrade.

Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?

165 + 35 wings + 15 TL BL = WD is bad at maths.

15*2 though, they had 2 sets.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

**skarsol**

Eyjio wrote:

15*2 though, they had 2 sets.

Yeah, I looked up the WD and fixed my post.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.

**Eldercaveman**

So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

**B0B MaRlEy**

Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Alas no more

**skarsol**

Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.

**ductvader**

skarsol wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.

Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.

**CthuluIsSpy**

skarsol wrote:
Eyjio wrote:

15*2 though, they had 2 sets.

Yeah, I looked up the WD and fixed my post.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.

Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.

**skarsol**

ductvader wrote:
skarsol wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.

Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.

They're both in the same section, nothing about LD.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.

AP-

**Eldercaveman**

ductvader wrote:
skarsol wrote:
Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".

Fantastic! I built mine from chaos spawn. All tentacles and hormagaunt heads...I don't like the current r@pethrope.

PM or link some photos, I'm interested to see what you've done, thanks

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.

You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.

**gorgon**

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Eyjio wrote:
ductvader wrote:
Eyjio wrote:
One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.

Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.

I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.

So stay in synapse?

I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.

Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?

Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.

Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?

Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.

It may be a misread on my part. I read the Tyranid Hive rumors to be that the mechanic had changed to being a roll on the IB table after a failed (regular) Ld test, like Morale, etc. Reading it again, I guess it might just be referring to the current mechanic.

**skarsol**

Eldercaveman wrote:

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.

You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.

I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.

**CthuluIsSpy**

skarsol wrote:
ductvader wrote:
skarsol wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.

Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.

Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.

They're both in the same section, nothing about LD.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.

AP-

Eh, I use tesla. High volumes of high strength shots tends to circumvent bad AP.

**Eldercaveman**

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.

You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.

I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.

You know what happens when you assume?

See:Swarmlord

**ductvader**

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:

skarsol wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?

Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.

You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.

I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.

He's talking about Swarmlord, Swarmy used to force the enemy to reroll passed invuln saves that his swords inflicted.

**skarsol**

Bah, they're not listed in the summary section, or any of the normal weapon sections.

They're S User, AP2, grant 4+ Invuln vs melee, cause ID. Nothing referencing opponents invuln saves.

**ductvader**

I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,

Do CC biomorph abilities stack?

So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?

**sLeEpYrOcK**

skarsol wrote:
Bah, they're not listed in the summary section, or any of the normal weapon sections.

They're S User, AP2, grant 4+ Invuln vs melee, cause ID. Nothing referencing opponents invuln saves.

They'll be in the swarmlord specific profile.

**gorgon**

The CC biomorph question is a big one.

**H.B.M.C.**

Wait, so a Carnifex brood can eat itself now?

Talk about forging a narrative...

**skarsol**

ductvader wrote:
I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,

Do CC biomorph abilities stack?

So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?

Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.

What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?

**ductvader**

skarsol wrote:
ductvader wrote:
I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,

Do CC biomorph abilities stack?

So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?

Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.

What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?

The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...