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 L0rdF1end wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
MVB did a good first glance here:
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranids-early-reaction-from-long-time.html?m=1

My words not his: if you're a competitive gamer, the sky has fallen for nids. The changes to deployment (drop pods removed), instinctive behavior (units flee without taking casualties, or inflict casualties on themselves), psychic power access, every single artifact is useless or overcosted, and unit nerfs make this new codex utter garbage.

If you're a beer and pretzels gamer or modeler/painter, great have fun with it. Horde nids couldn't be played in tournament time limits before and the price reductions only make this worse.

I can't wait to pull this post out in a months time when people realise that the point reduction alone made Nids competitive.
Nids don't need an uber stupid artifact to make them good.
I think we'll see NIds again as much as we did when 6th first landed, they were never going to be the "Go To" dex.

There are issues that force a slightly different list i feel but i fully expect it to still have a competitive edge.

QFT
Oh crap, the talking heads of the internet said something... They MUST be right....
Competitive 40k is a joke to begin with otherwise they wouldn't need to reformat the core rules every 2 months in order to hold an event so I have to laugh at the people who form opinions based on the game as if it was balanced like chess. He may as well right a review on competitive Yahtzee as far as I am concerned.

Neither of them have even read the book in it's entirety yet, let alone let it digest for a week. I still don't see the synapse thing as being as big an issue that some of these guys are.

MM ya, think ill be buying more Venoms to buff, moving ground MC's up behind cover conferring Gargoyles. Hopefully buffing FNP to the FMC units who take the reins in actual early game damage (and receiving fire I guess). Cover shenanigans always annoyed my Meta, but now it looks better than before. 4 or so FMC's strait out option for that many VS, flyers and vehicles are going to struggle more against some builds.
Plus no one plays Tau here so, yay.

Then again, so many units appeal to me more now with general opening of options. Really want the GS data-slate to be good. I have 100+ GS. 60 of them being Space Hulk ones.

Dang! Seems I have to buy the darn thing for the pretty pictures.

And so we close on another chapter of the long book known as "What could have been". It's almost like the Alien of 40k. A franchise that just keeps getting gak on. It's incredibly disappointing to see such failures not only fail to be fixed but only worsened by the sheer incompetence or otherwise ignorance of the author. The removal of the few unique and fun elements of the last book, alongside the mass of nerfs makes this such a disappointing release. I mean, this makes Codex chaos marines look like bloody Citizen Kane in comparison. How can GW feth this up so bad?

Also, if you see this post and your only response is "Stop whining", "Haters gonna hate", or "We don't know that yet!", then I'd advise you don't waste your time on making the thinly veiled ad-hom.

 Symbio Joe wrote:
Dang! Seems I have to buy the darn thing for the pretty pictures.

Yeah, there's some very nice new artwork in there. Although the picture in the Hive Tyrant's bestiary entry has a case of the skinny arms if you ask me.

 Gloomfang wrote:
As a competitive player I can this will be hard to be competitive with for a few reasons.
1) Dropped points costs mean more models. Beer and pretzles its fine, but at a tourny that can be real bad. It looks to play faster with fewer rerolls.

It also means we can squeeze in more monsters and mid-sized bugs, so it's not necessarily about having too many gaunts/gants to be able to adequately shuffle through the movement phase. One blob of 30 gaunts now (to unlock a Tervigon) isn't any more models than the 3 blobs of 10 we bought before.

 Gloomfang wrote:
2) This is not the Nid codex fault, but there are a lot of other lists out there with lots of MCs now. Nidzilla used to work becuse everyone tooled up for mech. Now a lot more folks have tools and plans for 5-6 MCs.

This isn't true at all. There are only a handful of MC's seeing any play outside of Tyranids, and no army is fielding more than 3. CSM/Daemons sometimes go there with Flying DP's, but Tyranids will be capable of saturating the field with them.

 Gloomfang wrote:
3) Synapse went for a good thing to be in (generally) to a very bad thing to be out of. With this codex if you kill off all the synapse you have probably just won the game.

Every competitive environment I've ever fielded my Tyranids in has faced this, no matter what edition. Good opponents always shoot down the Synapse. That hasn't changed. Besides, we now have access to more synaptic outlets in the army, some of which can have hilarious range.

 Gloomfang wrote:
4) A lot of the units depend on cover saves do to the utter lack of invuln saves. In the current meta so much stuff ignores cover it is almost useless. (markerlight, wave serpents, ect).

There's really only 2 seeing hefty play that ignores cover, and you just listed them. Ignores cover is a difficult rule for everyone to deal with, not just Tyranids. Very few armies have access to invulnerable saves (Daemons not withstanding), and the ones that do come on really expensive troops that don't exactly appear in droves. So either put something in cover that isn't worth them wasting fire on, or let them pay for a rule that won't come in handy because 11 MC's are running at them, supported by 70 little critters.

Playing with the right terrain isn't about cover saves for Tyranids, it's about blocking line of sight just long enough to get close with the right units.

If Tyranids dying is a reason not to play them, then you don't understand Tyranids (or the game of 40k).

 Gloomfang wrote:
it is making list building a challenge.

Without really playing a bunch with the new codex, list-building is always a challenge. It's not like it's been out for a year (or at all). Furthermore, it shouldn't be "easy" to build a list. That's a sign of a codex for dummies. Go play Warmachine (the iPhone of table-top games) if you want a list to build itself that easily.

I would rather have to figure out what works together instead of being told what works together.

NOTE: By 'iPhone' I mean to say that it was cool 5 years ago when no one knew how smart devices worked. Now it's still packaged as "intuitive", but really it lacks customization, horsepower, and overall functionality. It tells the user what they can do instead of the other way around. Now (almost) everyone understands the technology and wants more to do, but the iPhone is severely limited. With Warmachine, pick a caster, and that's going to tell you exactly what's competitive to pair with it (if anything is at all).

Got my toys and codex.
Pics of painted Crone kit in link below....
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/555458.page

 Imposter101 wrote:
And so we close on another chapter of the long book known as "What could have been". It's almost like the Alien of 40k. A franchise that just keeps getting gak on. It's incredibly disappointing to see such failures not only fail to be fixed but only worsened by the sheer incompetence or otherwise ignorance of the author. The removal of the few unique and fun elements of the last book, alongside the mass of nerfs makes this such a disappointing release. I mean, this makes Codex chaos marines look like bloody Citizen Kane in comparison. How can GW feth this up so bad?

Also, if you see this post and your only response is "Stop whining", "Haters gonna hate", or "We don't know that yet!", then I'd advise you don't waste your time on making the thinly veiled ad-hom.

Oh, pants.

Yes, there are stupid ill-thought-out rules, there are a lot of nerfs, there will be a lot of readjustment, it will be a lot of hassle. But there will be some good builds. It's a challenge, which is surely why we're here. As for people complaining about moving lots of models - maybe they shouldn't have got into tyranids?

Without zoeys, ymgarls, and pods for our next game, maybe we'll use those 400-odd points for gaunts and gargoyles... should be a laugh. IN the process, maybe we'll find a way of playing we didn't know about before.

Edit: Alex, please re-post. I'm getting a strange error too, which results in apparent double posts, which disappear when you edit. And Alex, thanks for those Carnifexes - no, we did not know they were gonna nerf the Hive Guard ballistic skill!

.

I think the idea, "What could have been" sums up why their is so much disappointment in this codex. Nothing changed from the 5th codex for the better except for the point cost. This codex feels cheap and lazy because it is cheap and lazy. The most thought went into making synapse worse...The artifacts are laughably bad, I can't see taking any of them ever. Not even in a for fun list, because the basic upgrades are better than the artifact upgrades. The warlord traits are bad for warlord traits, which doesn't say much but at the same time speaks volumes.

Tyranids got worse with this release but will still be able to field armies just fine and still win in a noncompetitive environment. I decided that I will still play my bugs despite this codex and how sick it makes me feel to have another army being just gutted with a release, my other being BT. By that I mean gutted of any potential, all the hope there was from seeing how awesome a lot of the 6th codices have been torn out leaving me feeling just...sad. I was hoping to at least see more bio-morphs than two for basic units again, maybe not the list we had in 4th but at least something better than TWO. I wanted to see some innovation and instead I just got an FAQ update to bring the codex in line with 6th edition. The worst part is there is just nothing to be excited about with the codex. I don't care how powerful or weak it is going to be in the current meta, I care that it is just...boring and bland. There is nothing that has me excited to try out or play with, it is all the same crap I have been playing for years now with a couple of new units that are boring or are looking pretty bad. The Exocrine is boring as gak, it does one thing and it will do that one thing all game long and never deviate from point and shoot. The Haurspex looks interesting but I just don't think it will be very good.

So now I have Tyranids and SoB with FAQ codices and my BT were just gutted with being turned into black Ultramarines. It is just getting hard to get excited about 40k anymore with half of my armies being taken in a "new" direction.

antoniomidnor wrote:
More tyranid pictures???:

This picture is complete crap, even an ingame screenshot from Dawn of War II would be better.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
Look, if you're a non-competitive gamer, than great. I don't think this should be the thread you should be posting in.

I can almost see your butthurt from here in the USA.

What the hell are you talking about? Because I can objectively look at the codex and decide if something is good or not does mean that I am some "cool internet slang term"? Am I going to give up this army? No. Am I going to not bring them to tournaments? No. Am I going to stop painting my tyranids? No.

Back to the real world here, I think I've settled on my list for my game on sunday (4000 points vs eldar, no apoc). As this is not a tactics thread, I'll be brief, but running flying hive tyrants, death leaper, hive guards, zoanthrope, venomthropes, tervigons outflanking, lots of gants, gaunts and garygoles, 18 spore mines!, two sets of carnifex, tyrannofex, biovores, Mawlocs. It should be a great game to really get a feel for most of these things and confirm what I've hypothesized.

The thing I'm most excited about? Spore mines. How sad is that.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

antoniomidnor wrote:
More tyranid pictures???:

This picture is complete crap, even an ingame screenshot from Dawn of War II would be better.

That face when the Dawn of War art is better than anything I've seen so far from the codex;

 Imposter101 wrote:


That face when the Dawn of War art is better than anything I've seen so far from the codex;

Spoiler:

Yes not to mention the 3d model has 100x more character than official picture from the codex

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090226105546/dawnofwar2/images/a/a1/Hive_Tyrant_01.jpg

Good job, again.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
MVB did a good first glance here:
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranids-early-reaction-from-long-time.html?m=1

My words not his: if you're a competitive gamer, the sky has fallen for nids. The changes to deployment (drop pods removed), instinctive behavior (units flee without taking casualties, or inflict casualties on themselves), psychic power access, every single artifact is useless or overcosted, and unit nerfs make this new codex utter garbage.

If you're a beer and pretzels gamer or modeler/painter, great have fun with it. Horde nids couldn't be played in tournament time limits before and the price reductions only make this worse.

I can't wait to pull this post out in a months time when people realise that the point reduction alone made Nids competitive.
Nids don't need an uber stupid artifact to make them good.
I think we'll see NIds again as much as we did when 6th first landed, they were never going to be the "Go To" dex.

There are issues that force a slightly different list i feel but i fully expect it to still have a competitive edge.

QFT
Oh crap, the talking heads of the internet said something... They MUST be right....
Competitive 40k is a joke to begin with otherwise they wouldn't need to reformat the core rules every 2 months in order to hold an event so I have to laugh at the people who form opinions based on the game as if it was balanced like chess. He may as well right a review on competitive Yahtzee as far as I am concerned.

Neither of them have even read the book in it's entirety yet, let alone let it digest for a week. I still don't see the synapse thing as being as big an issue that some of these guys are.

Mock the competitive scene all you want. It won't stop the scene or culture. On my personal schedule, I can get 1 casual game a month and 3 tournament games. That's all I have time for and that's what I must prepare for. There are hundreds of players who enjoy the competitive 40k scene and invest thousands of dollars into traveling to events. Just because the game is intended for beer and pretzels basement gamers, don't belittle a group who plays it a different way.

Who needs weeks to digest this information and play test really? I keep hearing this but it's a myth. Almost every decent unit in the army got objectively worse either via point cost, removal of special rules, abilities, or wargear. Done, digested. Some models received a points reduction. Here's news from the competitive scene for you basement beer and pretzel guys: horde nids could not finish games in tournament time limits before, adding 20% more models actually makes this worse. Add in a whole new self-destructive IB system to make it worse.

How many other armies will literally self-destruct if you eliminate 4 key units? We aren't talking vacuums here. We're saying watch what happens when a 6 wave serpent or triptide list focuses down synapse on a flank on turn 1. Most of the army is ld6/7. Lurkers will flee the table 50% of the time with a failed leadership test. Feeders will eat themselves.

This army now causes more damage to itself than any army in the game. This is usually used as a balancing factor to powerful units, but everything got worse! Hormagaunts lost their rerolls of 1. Trygons lost all rerolls. Hive guard dropped in BS and went up in cost. Tervigons lost a boatload of abilities and went up in cost.

You can ride around on your white horses all day chirping about reduced costs and play testing and vacuums. It won't change the fact that they took a suffering army and made it worse. The warlord table is a joke. The psychic powers are mediocre at best with no guarantees that you can get anything good at all. The IB chart causes self-damage or fleeing 50% of the time! A grot on a quad gun can kill any of the FA fliers in 1 phase. You can just pick up a flyrant or crone the first time a single skyray looks at it.

You can cling to your denial and hyperbole all you want. It may surprise you that some hobbyists have a decent enough grasp of the game and its dynamics to come to an accurate conclusion without playing dozens of games with a new army.

I doubt this would've changed, but any word on being able to equip fex broods individually?

 Imposter101 wrote:
And so we close on another chapter of the long book known as "What could have been". It's almost like the Alien of 40k. A franchise that just keeps getting gak on. It's incredibly disappointing to see such failures not only fail to be fixed but only worsened by the sheer incompetence or otherwise ignorance of the author. The removal of the few unique and fun elements of the last book, alongside the mass of nerfs makes this such a disappointing release. I mean, this makes Codex chaos marines look like bloody Citizen Kane in comparison. How can GW feth this up so bad?

We don't know that yet !
Stop whining, haters gonna hate.

Digriz636 wrote:
Venomethropes giving shrouded is quite cool.
Could you exploit intervening model rule by putting some gaunts in front of carnifexes and have venomthropes give them shrouded resulting in 3+ cover in open terrain?

Well, that's perfectly legal.

I wouldn't call it an exploit though, it's just the rules. You don't call it an exploit when someone takes two shots with a bolter at less than 12" range either.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
You can cling to your denial and hyperbole all you want. It may surprise you that some hobbyists have a decent enough grasp of the game and its dynamics to come to an accurate conclusion without playing dozens of games with a new army.

Exceptionally well said. Nothing more to add really.

If the gaunt covers 25% of the Carnifex, of course. They are quite top heavy.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
We don't know that yet !

Don't know what yet, exactly? We've all seen the book now. We know what the rules are. Anyone with a basic grasp of the rules can infer how the units work (and especially what's changed), and can see the deficiencies of this book. "We don't know" might've been a valid excuse a week ago, even a few days ago - but not now.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Stop whining, haters gonna hate.

Really? Really? You're going to trot out the one-two combo of "whining" and "haters"?

MC follow cover saves as if they were normal infantry. The "intervening unit" rule doesn't care whether your model is 1% obscured or 99% obscured if even the smallest part of the model is obscured by an interveneing unit you get a 5+ cover save.

hyv3mynd made a nice summary, not really anything to add to it.

 Redemption wrote:
If the gaunt covers 25% of the Carnifex, of course. They are quite top heavy.

I personally stack 4 gants (or whatever unit is inbetween) on top of each other to check. If it goes above the model, then cover for the one behind, if not, then no cover.

 brassangel wrote:
It also means we can squeeze in more monsters and mid-sized bugs, so it's not necessarily about having too many gaunts/gants to be able to adequately shuffle through the movement phase. One blob of 30 gaunts now (to unlock a Tervigon) isn't any more models than the 3 blobs of 10 we bought before.

I am just saying that swarms (like the 100+ model ones some people are talking about) might be completive, but not practical in a tourney sense.

 brassangel wrote:

This isn't true at all. There are only a handful of MC's seeing any play outside of Tyranids, and no army is fielding more than 3. CSM/Daemons sometimes go there with Flying DP's, but Tyranids will be capable of saturating the field with them.

Yes we can field more of them, but ours are not as durable as theirs are. The firepower required taking down a riptide or wraithknight would kill 2-3 of our MCs. And those handful of MCs are in a lot of competitive builds.

 brassangel wrote:
Every competitive environment I've ever fielded my Tyranids in has faced this, no matter what edition. Good opponents always shoot down the Synapse. That hasn't changed. Besides, we now have access to more synaptic outlets in the army, some of which can have hilarious range.

Lets see what happens if we compare 5th codex to 6th codex units outside of synapse shall we:
Termigaunts:
5th edition: Fail IB and lurk. Can still contest and hold objectives.
6th edition: Fail IB and have a 50% chance of breaking. Broken units cannot hold or contest objectives. If the unit is near the board edge they will probably run off of it.
So in 5th I could park a unit of gaunts on a backfield objective and go on my merry way. I let the go out of synapse all the time. In 6th you can’t do that. In fact just being out of synapse is a 25% per turn chance of having your termigaunts break.
Hormaguants:
5th edition: Fail IB. Run towards the enemy to get into CC. Probably what I would have done with them anyway. As of right now if they are out of IB and fail they get FC (for today and tomarrow.)
6th edition: Fail IB. Have a 33.3% chance to WIPEOUT HALF THE UNIT. 20 hormagaunts taking 20 S3 hits with a Sv6 is about 8-9 dead horms. If you roll bad you might then have to take a roll to see if they break do to the casualties caused by their own unit.
In 5th losing your synapse was annoying because you lost control of your units. In 6th it will literally destroy your army.
As for the more outlets? Lets review.
We lost one of the only 2 IC synapse creatures we had (PoM). The one IC we have left went up in price 50%. We lost DoM who was synapse. Tervigons as troop choices for synapse are more expensive especially with the termigaunt tax. In all we have LESS synapse.
We do have some very expensive ways of boosting the range though. I am looking at those options.

 brassangel wrote:
There's really only 2 seeing hefty play that ignores cover, and you just listed them. Ignores cover is a difficult rule for everyone to deal with, not just Tyranids. Very few armies have access to invulnerable saves (Daemons not withstanding), and the ones that do come on really expensive troops that don't exactly appear in droves. So either put something in cover that isn't worth them wasting fire on, or let them pay for a rule that won't come in handy because 11 MC's are running at them, supported by 70 little critters.

Lets see: all template weapons do (baleflamer anyone?), Bone Cannon, JoWW, flash gits, spore mines. I do agree that it is an issue for all armies. However all those armies also have things like transports to hide in and shuffle across the board rather than footslogging it.
And out off those 11MCs and 70 little critters your talking about how many of them are going to be getting shot at? The synapse ones.
How many synapse creatures have invulnerables? One (Zoans).
How many synapse creatures have 2+ armour saves? Zero.
And as covered above we can see what happens to those other critters when the synapse creatures die.

 brassangel wrote:
If Tyranids dying is a reason not to play them, then you don't understand Tyranids (or the game of 40k).

Them dying isn’t a problem. Back in 94 I used to call it my Doritos list (crunch all you want we’ll make more). Not going to stop playing them either. However having the only Warlords in all of 40K that don’t have access to either a 2+ or invuln save or some form of EW is a huge barrier to overcome when your army can literaly eat itself without your warlord.

 brassangel wrote:
Without really playing a bunch with the new codex, list-building is always a challenge. It's not like it's been out for a year (or at all). Furthermore, it shouldn't be "easy" to build a list. That's a sign of a codex for dummies. Go play Warmachine (the iPhone of table-top games) if you want a list to build itself that easily.

Yes it is and it is a part that I really enjoy. I was merely stating that Nid players have penalties that other armies do not have and a lot more artificial restrictions placed on them without any benifit. When orks (close to horms in points costs) start to have “’E Looks Tasty” on their animosity charts and or 30 man IG blobs (close to termis in points costs) can break and run off the table because the Commissar in the next unit over dies and space marine captains loose access to terminator armor then you can start saying “All the armies are balanced”.
Give it 3 months and there will be whatever version of screamerstar or whatever min/maxed list this codex can pump out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
We don't know that yet !

Don't know what yet, exactly? We've all seen the book now. We know what the rules are. Anyone with a basic grasp of the rules can infer how the units work (and especially what's changed), and can see the deficiencies of this book. "We don't know" might've been a valid excuse a week ago, even a few days ago - but not now.
S-

We know we've taken some serious hits. But yes, people will need time to work out tactics, and new combinations, and it will take some time for the potential of the new codex to be revealed.

The cliché hat the Eldar codex was initially slagged off was a truism; one of the main thread suggesting it was rubbish was linked recently, and all the moaning inspired this thread. (Do I think the 'nid codex will be competitive with Eldar? No. But we've stomped on Marines for a couple years, maybe we still will).

 Gloomfang wrote:

We lost one of the only 2 IC synapse creatures we had (PoM). The one IC we have left went up in price 50%. We lost DoM who was synapse. Tervigons as troop choices for synapse are more expensive especially with the termigaunt tax. In all we have LESS synapse.

Weird error to make. The DoM was never synapse.

 hyv3mynd wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
MVB did a good first glance here:
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2014/01/tyranids-early-reaction-from-long-time.html?m=1

My words not his: if you're a competitive gamer, the sky has fallen for nids. The changes to deployment (drop pods removed), instinctive behavior (units flee without taking casualties, or inflict casualties on themselves), psychic power access, every single artifact is useless or overcosted, and unit nerfs make this new codex utter garbage.

If you're a beer and pretzels gamer or modeler/painter, great have fun with it. Horde nids couldn't be played in tournament time limits before and the price reductions only make this worse.

I can't wait to pull this post out in a months time when people realise that the point reduction alone made Nids competitive.
Nids don't need an uber stupid artifact to make them good.
I think we'll see NIds again as much as we did when 6th first landed, they were never going to be the "Go To" dex.

There are issues that force a slightly different list i feel but i fully expect it to still have a competitive edge.

QFT
Oh crap, the talking heads of the internet said something... They MUST be right....
Competitive 40k is a joke to begin with otherwise they wouldn't need to reformat the core rules every 2 months in order to hold an event so I have to laugh at the people who form opinions based on the game as if it was balanced like chess. He may as well right a review on competitive Yahtzee as far as I am concerned.

Neither of them have even read the book in it's entirety yet, let alone let it digest for a week. I still don't see the synapse thing as being as big an issue that some of these guys are.

Mock the competitive scene all you want. It won't stop the scene or culture. On my personal schedule, I can get 1 casual game a month and 3 tournament games. That's all I have time for and that's what I must prepare for. There are hundreds of players who enjoy the competitive 40k scene and invest thousands of dollars into traveling to events. Just because the game is intended for beer and pretzels basement gamers, don't belittle a group who plays it a different way.

Who needs weeks to digest this information and play test really? I keep hearing this but it's a myth. Almost every decent unit in the army got objectively worse either via point cost, removal of special rules, abilities, or wargear. Done, digested. Some models received a points reduction. Here's news from the competitive scene for you basement beer and pretzel guys: horde nids could not finish games in tournament time limits before, adding 20% more models actually makes this worse. Add in a whole new self-destructive IB system to make it worse.

How many other armies will literally self-destruct if you eliminate 4 key units? We aren't talking vacuums here. We're saying watch what happens when a 6 wave serpent or triptide list focuses down synapse on a flank on turn 1. Most of the army is ld6/7. Lurkers will flee the table 50% of the time with a failed leadership test. Feeders will eat themselves.

This army now causes more damage to itself than any army in the game. This is usually used as a balancing factor to powerful units, but everything got worse! Hormagaunts lost their rerolls of 1. Trygons lost all rerolls. Hive guard dropped in BS and went up in cost. Tervigons lost a boatload of abilities and went up in cost.

You can ride around on your white horses all day chirping about reduced costs and play testing and vacuums. It won't change the fact that they took a suffering army and made it worse. The warlord table is a joke. The psychic powers are mediocre at best with no guarantees that you can get anything good at all. The IB chart causes self-damage or fleeing 50% of the time! A grot on a quad gun can kill any of the FA fliers in 1 phase. You can just pick up a flyrant or crone the first time a single skyray looks at it.

You can cling to your denial and hyperbole all you want. It may surprise you that some hobbyists have a decent enough grasp of the game and its dynamics to come to an accurate conclusion without playing dozens of games with a new army.

Excuse me if I prefer to formulate my one opinions on a product rather then play sycophant to "big Whigs" like MVB who makes broad generalizations about said product before ever even using it. I read his review and it was hit and miss at best. I beg you to reread it objectively and not laugh when he dooms over just about everything while trying to underplay things like Carnifex's dropping in cost by 25% and complaining that they used to cost 85pts in 4th. Wow, astute observation! A candy bar was 5c when my grandfather was a kid, doesn't mean they should be now

BTW I'll mock the competitive PLAYERS all I want so long as they make arrogant claims and insist on being the end of the road when it comes to playing the game well. Emphasis being that I wasn't mocking tournies, but the types who attend and take it FAR to seriously as if you can micro manage a system that was built from the ground up with literally zero balance. Further yet, when they make such claims with zero gathered data, this is the model of ignorance. But hey, they have blogs so they must be right .... Nope just loud.



PS I love how certain people continue to site references to the obviously broken units, sorry MOST broken units in the game. Will riptides and WS be a problem? Sure, but the answer never should have been hey lets create an even bigger problem to combat the first mistake! See D weapons if you don't believe me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
We don't know that yet !

Don't know what yet, exactly? We've all seen the book now. We know what the rules are. Anyone with a basic grasp of the rules can infer how the units work (and especially what's changed), and can see the deficiencies of this book. "We don't know" might've been a valid excuse a week ago, even a few days ago - but not now.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Stop whining, haters gonna hate.

Really? Really? You're going to trot out the one-two combo of "whining" and "haters"?

He's actually noting the bottom of my post, which said making statements like this was a waste. I think it's a joke.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't know what yet, exactly?

Read the post I was answering to (the full post, not the quotation), and you'll understand .
[edit]Ninja'd
Anyway, Imposter101 reverse-psychologied me into posting that.
[/edit]

Working on translating some of the Spanish with Google Translate. Not hard, just time consuming. (You guys can do it too...)

Some of the Spanish is weirdly translated.

- Exocrine WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W5 I3 A3 S3+ L7

Biomorphs : Bioplasma Cannon, (something spanish , I think maybe crushing claws/sything talons)

Special Rules: IB ( hunt ) , Fearless

~ Symbiotic Aiming: If does not move Exocrine During the movement phase , gain +1 to its ability to * something * ( balistic skill )

- Haruspex WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W5 I3 A3 S3+ L7

Biomorphs : Crushing Claws , prehensile tongue ( Weapon found on pg 65 . ) , Acid blood

Special Rules: IB ( Feed) , Fearless

~ Beast feeding : If a Haruspex inflicts at least one wound not saved in the Assault phase , at the end of phase one gets wound which you have lost . ( Gains one lost wound)

~ Ravenous Hunger : During the turn that a Haruspex charges each unsaved wound it inflicts in combat allows you to immediately make an additional attack . Further attacks can not generate more attacks . The Haridas causing instant death only generate an additional attack (Any idea to what this sentence means? ) . Wounds inflicted by hammer Fury , acid blood or tail biomorphic not benefit from this special rule .


I'll try to get more to you guys soon.

 Imposter101 wrote:
He's actually noting the bottom of my post, which said making statements like this was a waste. I think it's a joke.

I really hope you're right.

LOL Google translate is pretty bad.