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**CthuluIsSpy**

Wyzilla wrote:

I'm fine with the Sisters, I just wish they weren't so damn sexualized. Boobplate that would make WOW blush, or even worse how some of them have high heels built into their armor IIRC. They're a great concept that also doesn't fall victim to the annoying weak female trope, to the point that there's Sisters beyond normal Astartes or those that could beat up a mook marine just from skill. But for 's sake, ditch the boobplate, ditch the heels. Just make them look more like this.

Only a little bit more feminine with maybe a smaller bulk. But not only would it be friendly for STC's for their armor to be similar to Astartes', there's just no reason for their ridiculously sexualized armor besides simply trying to milk fans for cash via fanservice. Space Marine armor is massive. There's no reason why Sister's couldn't wear a smaller series nearly identical save some couple differences (while keeping their standard helmets) with the chest carved out for their strangely universally large chests. But there's no reason for it to be visible besides GW being able to point and scream' HEY LOOK, BOOBS, YOU LIKE BOOBS? HERE'S BOOBS!'

(Which as a male, it feels offensive for such marketing principles to pretty much whore out in an attempt to grab my money. My comic books are sexualized, my movies are sexualized, my games are sexualized, could my miniatures please just not be sexualized so there is at least SOMETHING?)

They don't have high heels, and the "boobplate" is necessary for symbolism.
Think of it this way - it's the Eccleisarchy's way of telling everyone "hey look, we aren't breaking that no Man under Arms decree. See, they are women. So shove it."
I suspect it might also have something to do with their inspiration from baroque art as well. Baroque is very showy and exaggerated after all.

That mini doesn't look like a sister to me. Just looks like another space marine. The problem with powered armor (or any armor, really) is that it tends to make everyone look the same. Sure, you have things like waist and whatever, but those are subtle; unless you are looking for it, you won't see it. Especially on a mini.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Troike wrote:

I'd say that the Sisters are pretty far ahead in this regard, overall. The boobplate is hardly as bad as the hordes of barely clothed female "soldier" minis out there.

Though, yes, the Repentia do sort of go against my point. Though they do have some pretty solid fluff to justify their appearance.

Considering how they have pitiful armor saves in game, I'd say your point still stands.

The problem with barely clothed female soldiers in fiction isn't that they are barely clothed, imo, it's that they are barely clothed and can survive getting shot at. Unless they have bullet proof skin or a healing factor, there's no reason why they should have their midriff exposed.

**Void__Dragon**

Melissia wrote:
Who here is arguing for anything to be squatted?

In this thread?

I don't think anyone. I've seen the likes of Peregrine wish that the Tyranids for example would get this treatment, so it is not unheard of.

**Ashiraya**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They don't have high heels, and the "boobplate" is necessary for symbolism.
Think of it this way - it's the Eccleisarchy's way of telling everyone "hey look, we aren't breaking that no Man under Arms decree. See, they are women. So shove it."
I suspect it might also have something to do with their inspiration from baroque art as well. Baroque is very showy and exaggerated after all.

The problem with boobplate is that it is downright negative for your survival. It guides incoming attacks in between the breasts, which is, well, bad.

I'd much rather lose a breast to a stab than lose some of the more valuable squishy bits deeper in.

Honestly, when we are talking the thickness of PA, any visual gender differences should be minimal. There are plenty of ways to distinguish them as a faction rather than having boobplate. They already have a rather unique armour design that could just as easily be applied to more 'flat' armour. Not to mention that the differences would be very visible indeed for the ones without helmets.

**Brother Payne**

For me there are a few options:
Tau: just because the grimdark really doesn't work for them
Newcrons: because why is anyone else alive if this is the case
and SoB: sexy space nuns. Really?! Who the hell came up with that idea

**Lord Spartacus**

When I think of SoB I think of overzealous women who would burn anyone for the slightest hint of heresy, no matter the age/gender/status, not boob armor.

**CthuluIsSpy**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

They don't have high heels, and the "boobplate" is necessary for symbolism.
Think of it this way - it's the Eccleisarchy's way of telling everyone "hey look, we aren't breaking that no Man under Arms decree. See, they are women. So shove it."
I suspect it might also have something to do with their inspiration from baroque art as well. Baroque is very showy and exaggerated after all.

The problem with boobplate is that it is downright negative for your survival. It guides incoming attacks in between the breasts, which is, well, bad.

I'd much rather lose a breast to a stab than lose some of the more valuable squishy bits deeper in.

Honestly, when we are talking the thickness of PA, any visual gender differences should be minimal. There are plenty of ways to distinguish them as a faction rather than having boobplate. They already have a rather unique armour design that could just as easily be applied to more 'flat' armour. Not to mention that the differences would be very visible indeed for the ones without helmets.

I suspect that the breasts are completely ornamental. They are probably filled with more layers of metal.
Is there anything in their background that says that the "boobplate" is filled with their breast?

Besides, the middle part is filled with something already, so I don't see any attacks being directed towards the chest anytime soon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Spartacus wrote:
When I think of SoB I think of overzealous women who would burn anyone for the slightest hint of heresy, no matter the age/gender/status, not boob armor.

Yep. Same. It is still part of their aesthetic though, and there's a good reason behind it. It would be like suddenly making orks orange in the setting, just because someone doesn't like green.

**amanita**

I like ALL the current factions. They all have a flaw of some kind, however, so I guess what sticks out most to me:

Orks ~ a bit too silly to be plausible, but it's the ridiculous efficiency of their regrowth from spores that gets tiresome for me. They just can't...ever...be...killed.

Necrons ~ so ancient with super god-like high tech yet continue to shuffle automatons into battle and gee they could kill destroy anything if they wanted to and they just can't...ever...be...killed.

Chaos Demons ~ their existence in the setting is a bit off for me, though GW does seem to be pushing the space fantasy aspect even further. Orcs and elves and MORE magic in space and now demons? *sigh* As an off- shoot of Chaos ok but having armies of demons is a stretch. They can be banished but it also seems they can't...ever...be...killed.

Hmmm... I sense a theme here.

**CthuluIsSpy**

amanita wrote:
I like ALL the current factions. They all have a flaw of some kind, however, so I guess what sticks out most to me:

Orks ~ a bit too silly to be plausible, but it's the ridiculous efficiency of their regrowth from spores that gets tiresome for me. They just can't...ever...be...killed.

Necrons ~ so ancient with super god-like high tech yet continue to shuffle automatons into battle and gee they could kill destroy anything if they wanted to and they just can't...ever...be...killed.

Chaos Demons ~ their existence in the setting is a bit off for me, though GW does seem to be pushing the space fantasy aspect even further. Orcs and elves and MORE magic in space and now demons? *sigh* As an off- shoot of Chaos ok but having armies of demons is a stretch. They can be banished but it also seems they can't...ever...be...killed.

Hmmm... I sense a theme here.

Ah, but they can be killed.

Orks - Kill it with fire.

Necrons - Nukes

Demons - The bible?

Anyway, I think I may have woefully directed this thread off topic with all this talk of SoB. There's already a couple of threads complaining about the boob plate in Discussions.

Ok now...I never liked the Eldar Fluff. Not sure if I already posted that here, so I'll say it again, Eldar fluff is a bit head scratching.
For a race that could see the future, they certainly didn't see the birth of slaanesh coming. Or their race's extinction.

**Omegus**

necrondog99 wrote:
Melissia wrote:
McNinja wrote:
The Orks technically could be a very intimidating race, but they aren't "serious" because
... internet memes are stupid but a lot of people buy in to them.

Orks are quite grimdark right now, but a lot of people can't see past the stupid memes to actually get to the good stuff, and this time it isn't actually GW's fault. It's the fault of the fanbase being stupid and unimaginative.

*Had to Google "internet meme" to figure out you were calling me stupid and unimaginative. Sorry, I have a spouse for that - but then again what did you expect from a soulless robot? No, Orks are still cartoonish and sculpted like thalidomide mutants with overloaded diapers. Nobody takes them seriously.

That got a chuckle out of me, but wouldn't that mean they have no limbs at all?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok now...I never liked the Eldar Fluff. Not sure if I already posted that here, so I'll say it again, Eldar fluff is a bit head scratching.
For a race that could see the future, they certainly didn't see the birth of slaanesh coming. Or their race's extinction.

But they totally did see it coming, hence the craftworlds, they just didn't see it coming soon enough and/or not enough people cared (the most hardcore had created pocket realms for themselves in the shadows of the webway anyway.

And they aren't extinct, Dark Eldar are thriving and each Craftworld houses billions. They are simply no longer the dominant force in the universe.

**Watchersinthedark**

Not a fan of the Grey Knights. Sure they have a place in the 40k universe but no real need for them to be anything more than an ally or a footnote like the Legion of the Dammed now are.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Omegus wrote:
necrondog99 wrote:
Melissia wrote:
McNinja wrote:
The Orks technically could be a very intimidating race, but they aren't "serious" because
... internet memes are stupid but a lot of people buy in to them.

Orks are quite grimdark right now, but a lot of people can't see past the stupid memes to actually get to the good stuff, and this time it isn't actually GW's fault. It's the fault of the fanbase being stupid and unimaginative.

*Had to Google "internet meme" to figure out you were calling me stupid and unimaginative. Sorry, I have a spouse for that - but then again what did you expect from a soulless robot? No, Orks are still cartoonish and sculpted like thalidomide mutants with overloaded diapers. Nobody takes them seriously.

That got a chuckle out of me, but wouldn't that mean they have no limbs at all?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok now...I never liked the Eldar Fluff. Not sure if I already posted that here, so I'll say it again, Eldar fluff is a bit head scratching.
For a race that could see the future, they certainly didn't see the birth of slaanesh coming. Or their race's extinction.

But they totally did see it coming, hence the craftworlds, they just didn't see it coming soon enough and/or not enough people cared (the most hardcore had created pocket realms for themselves in the shadows of the webway anyway.

And they aren't extinct, Dark Eldar are thriving and each Craftworld houses billions. They are simply no longer the dominant force in the universe.

Aren't they nearing extinction though? I thought the whole "dying race" thing was their schtick?

**Troike**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That mini doesn't look like a sister to me. Just looks like another space marine. The problem with powered armor (or any armor, really) is that it tends to make everyone look the same. Sure, you have things like waist and whatever, but those are subtle; unless you are looking for it, you won't see it. Especially on a mini

This is another good point, actually. It gives them a very unique look, and keeps them nice and disctinct from the Marines. Though, granted, this could probably be done easily enough with some other design.

Like I said, I wouldn't mourn the boobplate's loss, but it does have its advantages.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Considering how they have pitiful armor saves in game, I'd say your point still stands.

The problem with barely clothed female soldiers in fiction isn't that they are barely clothed, imo, it's that they are barely clothed and can survive getting shot at. Unless they have bullet proof skin or a healing factor, there's no reason why they should have their midriff exposed.

Well, with the Repentia, the survivng bullets thing is explained as them being so zealous that they can ignore the pain, hence their FNP abilities. As for them being somewhat exposed, again, their fluff as insanely zealous penitents gives that a fitting explanation.

Brother Payne wrote:
and SoB: sexy space nuns. Really?! Who the hell came up with that idea

Nobody came up with that idea, because they're not characterised that way. Some people on the internet just want them to be.

Their artwork and fluff in studio sources has never really emphasised sex at all. First and foremost, they're pitched as zealot-soldiers, not as sexually appealing.

Lord Spartacus wrote:
When I think of SoB I think of overzealous women who would burn anyone for the slightest hint of heresy, no matter the age/gender/status, not boob armor.

Yep! In my view, they're first and foremost defined as zealot-warriors.

**Void__Dragon**

Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive. Likely because the physical demands of their training regimen and the horrors of war have made them unattractive. There are exceptions of course, but I doubt most Sisters of Battle are sexy by any conventional standards.

**the color purple**

Grey Knights and Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

**Selym**

the color purple wrote:
Grey Knights and Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

Yeah. We're so alike, any CSM can infiltrate the GK ranks

Spoiler:

**CthuluIsSpy**

Selym wrote:
the color purple wrote:
Grey Knights and Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

Yeah. We're so alike, any CSM can infiltrate the GK ranks

Spoiler:

...I want that soul grinder. Slaanesh done right.

**Selym**

Brother Payne wrote:
sexy space nuns. Really?! Who the hell came up with that idea

Well, this came close:

Spoiler:

If I had chosen any image of those that weren't of the models, it would have been rated 18+...

**Bran Dawri**

I don't know about you guys, but I don't find most of the Sisters models particularly sexy.

@CthuluIsSpy: It is now. Their shtick used to be that they're dying, but their tech the most advanced in the galaxy and because of that they could still seriously contest the Imperium's claim to the most powerful force in the galaxy. They merely had no interest in doing so, as the Imperium, for all its faults, is a useful buffer against the various enemies out there.

The oldcrons already took the second part (and I hate them for it). Newcrons, instead of going in a different direction to become their own thing, just upped the ante to stupid-good levels.

**SisterSydney**

Void__Dragon wrote:Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive. Likely because the physical demands of their training regimen and the horrors of war have made them unattractive. There are exceptions of course, but I doubt most Sisters of Battle are sexy by any conventional standards.

The one on the cover of the digital codex is improbably pretty.....

And then there's the fanart. GOOGLE WITH CARE!

the color purple wrote:....Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

Riiiiiight, because all those long, pointy spikes aren't compensating for anything.

**CthuluIsSpy**

SisterSydney wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive. Likely because the physical demands of their training regimen and the horrors of war have made them unattractive. There are exceptions of course, but I doubt most Sisters of Battle are sexy by any conventional standards.

The one on the cover of the digital codex is improbably pretty.....

And then there's the fanart. GOOGLE WITH CARE!

He did say exceptions, and the sister on the cover is also bleeding, with a smoking gun and an expression that says "make my day, punk." That tends to be a bit of a mood killer.

Well, it is the internet. My calculations could be wrong, but I estimate that approximately 80% of it is composed of either Rule 34 or cats. Or both...

SisterSydney wrote:

the color purple wrote:....Chaos use the same armor and much of the same equipment as marines and manage to not feature prominent sexual characteristics.

Riiiiiight, because all those long, pointy spikes aren't compensating for anything.

Also, slaanesh. Speaking of the internet, I advise you not to google that.

**SisterSydney**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive. ....

The one on the cover of the digital codex is improbably pretty.....

...the sister on the cover [has] a smoking gun and an expression that says "make my day, punk." That tends to be a bit of a mood killer....

Maybe for you.

**CthuluIsSpy**

SisterSydney wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
SisterSydney wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive. ....

The one on the cover of the digital codex is improbably pretty.....

...the sister on the cover [has] a smoking gun and an expression that says "make my day, punk." That tends to be a bit of a mood killer....

Maybe for you.

Now that's just...*thinks of Quentin Tarantino films*
Heh, fair point

**BlaxicanX**

What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

**BrotherVord**

I hate the current necron fluff. Chaos daemons used to bother me as well but not anymore.

Tau I could take or leave but they don't bother me.

People talk about eldar and newcrons being too similar but how about eldar and dark eldar basically being the same army?

**Brother Payne**

BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

**Selym**

Brother Payne wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

It works.

**Troike**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
He did say exceptions, and the sister on the cover is also bleeding, with a smoking gun and an expression that says "make my day, punk." That tends to be a bit of a mood killer.

Indeed. While this Sister is somewhat more attracitve than the ones we've seen before (in the studio art, anyway), she's still on a flaming battlefield, holding her gun up, and a little battle-damaged. Their role as warriors is still very much at the forefront.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Most Sister of Battle artwork doesn't depict them as particularly attractive.

Quite right. Back in 2E, there were a few quite old Sisters. Then we've got the Repentia, who never come across as attractive. Other Sisters have mostly been fairly plain looking.

BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

Well, the Sisters are both very dedicated elite soldiers and insanely devoted orthodox zealots on top of that. Not really characterisitcs that go hand-in-hand with sexiness.

**Brother Payne**

Selym wrote:
Brother Payne wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

It works.

What works? The last bit or the sexy space nuns?

**Selym**

Brother Payne wrote:
Selym wrote:
Brother Payne wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

It works.

What works? The last bit or the sexy space nuns?

Either or. Take your pick.

**Brother Payne**

Selym wrote:
Brother Payne wrote:
Selym wrote:
Brother Payne wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
What's wrong with sexy space-nuns?

The fact that nuns are supposed to be peaceful and detached from sexual experiences
(I didn't really know how to phrase that last bit...)

It works.

What works? The last bit or the sexy space nuns?

Either or. Take your pick.

Well ok then