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I think drop furious charge, make S5, and go 20 pts per model. they definably have the S5, but IMO I don't think they merit T5

T5 things
plague marines
demon princes
ork warbosses

I don't think they are as tough as the above


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also in my old line, crusader adds d3 to sweeping advance totals, so has use

Im not well versed in thunder warrior lore: but here are some suggestions anyway.
Keep S at 4 . Gain: strength of thunder, may reroll all to-wound rolls of 1. (thats kinda like strength 4,5)
one or more of those listed below:
Gain unreliable special rule. At the end of a game, roll a D6 for each thunder warrior squad. On a roll of 1, they lose their scoring and denial unit status.
Unstable: If the unit has lost more than ½ their original number at the end of the game, roll a D6 on 4+ they count as destroyed for VP purposes.
No remorse, no sanity: If a thunder warrior unit ever fails a LD test, each unit within 6" suffers D6 S4 hits(friendly and enemy units, including the original thunder warrior unit) as the units goes temporarily berserk.

Would Bulky make them too large?

 Blackskull wrote:
I think drop furious charge, make S5, and go 20 pts per model. they definably have the S5, but IMO I don't think they merit T5

T5 things
plague marines
demon princes
ork warbosses

I don't think they are as tough as the above


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also in my old line, crusader adds d3 to sweeping advance totals, so has use

I have to agree with this. They are super strong but nor more tougher then a normal Marine would be.

Well from I can tell, the thunder warriors are marines with various physical and mental issues. They where unstable and prone to being burned out both mentally and physically. Which is why the emperor went about creating the astartes, at least this is the images portrayed in the HH: Betrayal book.

So I would say they have the standard stat line of a normal marine probably given rage and furious assault with some type of instability rule. as for the stormbolter, that didn't exist to post heresy and thunder hammers came even later.

SaintofDaemons wrote:
Well from I can tell, the thunder warriors are marines with various physical and mental issues. They where unstable and prone to being burned out both mentally and physically. Which is why the emperor went about creating the astartes, at least this is the images portrayed in the HH: Betrayal book.

So I would say they have the standard stat line of a normal marine probably given rage and furious assault with some type of instability rule. as for the stormbolter, that didn't exist to post heresy and thunder hammers came even later.

They've been explicitily described as stronger than Astartes in all sources of info where I read about them. Comparable stat-line and special rules are a good idea, but let them have S5.

It depends on how we want to PORTRAY them, in my mind they are honorable warriors who carried themselves into battle to do their duty.

They where gifted a portion of the Emperors tactical genius, where stronger and tougher than space marines, not to mention the fact that the big E created them strictly for combat, where the Astartes where designed to be capable of functioning outside of a warzone.

Furthermore, the primary reason Thunder Warriors aren't seen around during the Great Crusade time period is because the big E killed them, nobody knows how, all we know is that due to their mental/genetic instabilities, (which he introduced intentionally) he had them all killed.

Now, if Marines are immortal beings destined to eventually conquer the galaxy, the Thunder Warriors where soldiers destined to bring CHANGE, the fought the most challenging war of the great crusade era.

The only other thing to note is that Thunder Warriors remember who they where before becoming Thunder Warriors, there wasn't enough time for hypnoconditioning.


Given that understanding, these aren't Marines, the base statline is all we need from them.


I firmly believe that S5 T5 is warranted or we could swap T5 for 2 wounds

They need to be different enough as standard troops from Marines on the table top

The final thing to note is when this is taking place before the Thunder Warriors realize they have been betrayed by the Emperor? Or Afterwards?

Their leader, Arik Taranis found a way to fix their genetic flaws and increase their longevity, so as a character on the board, he could introduce some sort of mod to all the other Thunder Warriors

The Thunder Warriors were sent to take the last stronghold on Terra which was extremely heavily defended. They suffered a large amount of casualties when the battle was over. Immediately after the battle the Emperor had the surviving Thunder Warriors ambushed and killed. Nobody knows who could be capable of achieving such a task but it was rumored only the Custodes were strong enough to do the job as legend is told.

A single Thunder Warrior survived Arik Taranis and he became a criminal leader and yes he did find a way to prolong his life however at this point there were no other Thunder Warriors left so to make rules about the sole survivor and have rules about extending life spans of other Thunder Warriors are moot.

I really don't think they should have T5 or W2. The fluff rarely reflects the table top stats for units and we are trying to come up with some sort of balanced rules. To me a Thunder warrior should be similar to a marine in stats but be amazing in cc.

So have marine stats and make them Strength 5 and add cc usrs to taste and equip them for cc with power weapons, fists thunder hammers, lighting claws etc. Even if some of these weapons did not exist they could be M30 Terran equivalents that offer similar performance.

Heck if you really wanted to you could also make them WS 5. With shooting being so effective in 6th you might want to make them even more deadly in cc to make up for an edition that focuses on shooting.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
The Thunder Warriors were sent to take the last stronghold on Terra which was extremely heavily defended. They suffered a large amount of casualties when the battle was over. Immediately after the battle the Emperor had the surviving Thunder Warriors ambushed and killed. Nobody knows who could be capable of achieving such a task but it was rumored only the Custodes were strong enough to do the job as legend is told.

A single Thunder Warrior survived Arik Taranis and he became a criminal leader and yes he did find a way to prolong his life however at this point there were no other Thunder Warriors left so to make rules about the sole survivor and have rules about extending life spans of other Thunder Warriors are moot.

I really don't think they should have T5 or W2. The fluff rarely reflects the table top stats for units and we are trying to come up with some sort of balanced rules. To me a Thunder warrior should be similar to a marine in stats but be amazing in cc.

So have marine stats and make them Strength 5 and add cc usrs to taste and equip them for cc with power weapons, fists thunder hammers, lighting claws etc. Even if some of these weapons did not exist they could be M30 Terran equivalents that offer similar performance.

Heck if you really wanted to you could also make them WS 5. With shooting being so effective in 6th you might want to make them even more deadly in cc to make up for an edition that focuses on shooting.

well no, other Thunder Warriors survived, thats why there was a rebellion on one of the prison planets. ( I can't quite remember the name of the planet)

The increase in toughness or wounds wouldn't be imbalanced, the whole premise is to get them into CC, shooting wasn't what was important during the unification wars.

T5 AND 2 wounds isn't op in an of itself, especially when compared to the number of Thunder Warriors that existed, it was only 20 regiments of a few hundred Thunder Warriors each, so at MOST there where 4000 Thunder Warriors on Terra during the unification wars and those FOUR THOUSAND Thunder Warriors just so happened to conquer Terra, fighting age of strife level tech on a regular basis, while using mk1 power armor and CCWs?

It isn't a stretch to say that they all had power weapon equivalents, and it isn't a stretch to say they where flat out better than marines in combat. (Oh, wait, It is explicitly stated that they where better than marines)

Lets do some math hammer:

40 S5 shots inflict roughly 4.44 wounds if they have T5 and 3+
40 S4 RENDING shots inflict 5.926 wounds
40 S3 Shots inflict 1.481

overwatch:

40 S5 shots inflict 1.111 wound
40 S4 with rending inflict 1.852
40 S3 inflict 1.111 wounds

The next thing to consider is that they BREAK, these are enhanced human beings with Leadership 8 and no psycho indoctrination, meaning, they piss themselves when 1/4 of their number splode
regardless of max squad size, don't QQ about op when this is clearly the shooting format anyway, they lack the number of bodies to make it into CC without T5 and 2 wounds.

If a Thunder Warrior where worth 50 points each, he would have to kill 3 necrons, 4 smurfs, 5 fire warriors, 1 imperial guard infantry squad and however man orks/nids to make his points back.

CLEARLY, the Thunder Warrior has an advantage against elite armies, they should, they where never a large force to begin with and considering that all the fluff indicates they curb stomp smurfs, I firmly believe it would be balanced.

 Magerdanu wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
The Thunder Warriors were sent to take the last stronghold on Terra which was extremely heavily defended. They suffered a large amount of casualties when the battle was over. Immediately after the battle the Emperor had the surviving Thunder Warriors ambushed and killed. Nobody knows who could be capable of achieving such a task but it was rumored only the Custodes were strong enough to do the job as legend is told.

A single Thunder Warrior survived Arik Taranis and he became a criminal leader and yes he did find a way to prolong his life however at this point there were no other Thunder Warriors left so to make rules about the sole survivor and have rules about extending life spans of other Thunder Warriors are moot.

I really don't think they should have T5 or W2. The fluff rarely reflects the table top stats for units and we are trying to come up with some sort of balanced rules. To me a Thunder warrior should be similar to a marine in stats but be amazing in cc.

So have marine stats and make them Strength 5 and add cc usrs to taste and equip them for cc with power weapons, fists thunder hammers, lighting claws etc. Even if some of these weapons did not exist they could be M30 Terran equivalents that offer similar performance.

Heck if you really wanted to you could also make them WS 5. With shooting being so effective in 6th you might want to make them even more deadly in cc to make up for an edition that focuses on shooting.

well no, other Thunder Warriors survived, thats why there was a rebellion on one of the prison planets. ( I can't quite remember the name of the planet)

The increase in toughness or wounds wouldn't be imbalanced, the whole premise is to get them into CC, shooting wasn't what was important during the unification wars.

T5 AND 2 wounds isn't op in an of itself, especially when compared to the number of Thunder Warriors that existed, it was only 20 regiments of a few hundred Thunder Warriors each, so at MOST there where 4000 Thunder Warriors on Terra during the unification wars and those FOUR THOUSAND Thunder Warriors just so happened to conquer Terra, fighting age of strife level tech on a regular basis, while using mk1 power armor and CCWs?

It isn't a stretch to say that they all had power weapon equivalents, and it isn't a stretch to say they where flat out better than marines in combat. (Oh, wait, It is explicitly stated that they where better than marines)

Lets do some math hammer:

40 S5 shots inflict roughly 4.44 wounds if they have T5 and 3+
40 S4 RENDING shots inflict 5.926 wounds
40 S3 Shots inflict 1.481

overwatch:

40 S5 shots inflict 1.111 wound
40 S4 with rending inflict 1.852
40 S3 inflict 1.111 wounds

The next thing to consider is that they BREAK, these are enhanced human beings with Leadership 8 and no psycho indoctrination, meaning, they piss themselves when 1/4 of their number splode
regardless of max squad size, don't QQ about op when this is clearly the shooting format anyway, they lack the number of bodies to make it into CC without T5 and 2 wounds.

If a Thunder Warrior where worth 50 points each, he would have to kill 3 necrons, 4 smurfs, 5 fire warriors, 1 imperial guard infantry squad and however man orks/nids to make his points back.

CLEARLY, the Thunder Warrior has an advantage against elite armies, they should, they where never a large force to begin with and considering that all the fluff indicates they curb stomp smurfs, I firmly believe it would be balanced.

By the time of the Hersey there was only a single Thunder Warrior left Arik Taranis. The rebellion on that prison planet (how or why did Thunder Warriors end up off Terra?) was ended very early on by the War hounds. The fact they the legion was still called the War Hounds should indicate just how early in the crusade they were wiped out. What time period are you using the Thunder Warriors in? I assumed perhaps mistakenly that the campaign you wanted to represent was the unification wars as that is pretty much were most of the combat the Thunder Warriors saw. You of course can come up with your own fluff as you see fit and do what ever you want. But canonically they were wiped out very early in the crusade.

I'm not sure what you are saying on the cc aspect I have always said they should be cc monsters. I think you agree with me on this? I never said they should be good at shooting as Terra was heavily urbanized and all the fighting was close quarter. Also I said that they should be all armed with PW I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me on that point.

Like I said table top stats and fluff stats are very different things. Also we have to take into the entire army into effect. Are you going to use any other units other then Thunder Warriors to represent your army? It's hard to come up with balanced stats in a vacuum where you don't know what else will be joining them. Even if you were going to give them T5 and 2W for 50pts a piece I would think that would unbalanced in favor of the other guy. A single squad of 10 Warriors would be 500Pts and would not be hard to out maneuver or out shoot. these guys before they can get into cc.

This is your campaign and you are free to represent these guys anyway you like. However, you did open it up for suggestions and I have offered a few suggestions. You are free to use them or not. It's all good

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

 Magerdanu wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
The Thunder Warriors were sent to take the last stronghold on Terra which was extremely heavily defended. They suffered a large amount of casualties when the battle was over. Immediately after the battle the Emperor had the surviving Thunder Warriors ambushed and killed. Nobody knows who could be capable of achieving such a task but it was rumored only the Custodes were strong enough to do the job as legend is told.

A single Thunder Warrior survived Arik Taranis and he became a criminal leader and yes he did find a way to prolong his life however at this point there were no other Thunder Warriors left so to make rules about the sole survivor and have rules about extending life spans of other Thunder Warriors are moot.

I really don't think they should have T5 or W2. The fluff rarely reflects the table top stats for units and we are trying to come up with some sort of balanced rules. To me a Thunder warrior should be similar to a marine in stats but be amazing in cc.

So have marine stats and make them Strength 5 and add cc usrs to taste and equip them for cc with power weapons, fists thunder hammers, lighting claws etc. Even if some of these weapons did not exist they could be M30 Terran equivalents that offer similar performance.

Heck if you really wanted to you could also make them WS 5. With shooting being so effective in 6th you might want to make them even more deadly in cc to make up for an edition that focuses on shooting.

well no, other Thunder Warriors survived, thats why there was a rebellion on one of the prison planets. ( I can't quite remember the name of the planet)

The increase in toughness or wounds wouldn't be imbalanced, the whole premise is to get them into CC, shooting wasn't what was important during the unification wars.

T5 AND 2 wounds isn't op in an of itself, especially when compared to the number of Thunder Warriors that existed, it was only 20 regiments of a few hundred Thunder Warriors each, so at MOST there where 4000 Thunder Warriors on Terra during the unification wars and those FOUR THOUSAND Thunder Warriors just so happened to conquer Terra, fighting age of strife level tech on a regular basis, while using mk1 power armor and CCWs?

It isn't a stretch to say that they all had power weapon equivalents, and it isn't a stretch to say they where flat out better than marines in combat. (Oh, wait, It is explicitly stated that they where better than marines)

Lets do some math hammer:

40 S5 shots inflict roughly 4.44 wounds if they have T5 and 3+
40 S4 RENDING shots inflict 5.926 wounds
40 S3 Shots inflict 1.481

overwatch:

40 S5 shots inflict 1.111 wound
40 S4 with rending inflict 1.852
40 S3 inflict 1.111 wounds

The next thing to consider is that they BREAK, these are enhanced human beings with Leadership 8 and no psycho indoctrination, meaning, they piss themselves when 1/4 of their number splode
regardless of max squad size, don't QQ about op when this is clearly the shooting format anyway, they lack the number of bodies to make it into CC without T5 and 2 wounds.

If a Thunder Warrior where worth 50 points each, he would have to kill 3 necrons, 4 smurfs, 5 fire warriors, 1 imperial guard infantry squad and however man orks/nids to make his points back.

CLEARLY, the Thunder Warrior has an advantage against elite armies, they should, they where never a large force to begin with and considering that all the fluff indicates they curb stomp smurfs, I firmly believe it would be balanced.

By the time of the Hersey there was only a single Thunder Warrior left Arik Taranis. The rebellion on that prison planet (how or why did Thunder Warriors end up off Terra?) was ended very early on by the War hounds. The fact they the legion was still called the War Hounds should indicate just how early in the crusade they were wiped out. What time period are you using the Thunder Warriors in? I assumed perhaps mistakenly that the campaign you wanted to represent was the unification wars as that is pretty much were most of the combat the Thunder Warriors saw. You of course can come up with your own fluff as you see fit and do what ever you want. But canonically they were wiped out very early in the crusade.

I'm not sure what you are saying on the cc aspect I have always said they should be cc monsters. I think you agree with me on this? I never said they should be good at shooting as Terra was heavily urbanized and all the fighting was close quarter. Also I said that they should be all armed with PW I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me on that point.

Like I said table top stats and fluff stats are very different things. Also we have to take into the entire army into effect. Are you going to use any other units other then Thunder Warriors to represent your army? It's hard to come up with balanced stats in a vacuum where you don't know what else will be joining them. Even if you were going to give them T5 and 2W for 50pts a piece I would think that would unbalanced in favor of the other guy. A single squad of 10 Warriors would be 500Pts and would not be hard to out maneuver or out shoot. these guys before they can get into cc.

This is your campaign and you are free to represent these guys anyway you like. However, you did open it up for suggestions and I have offered a few suggestions. You are free to use them or not. It's all good

I agree with you on the close combat part, it really isn't about shooting and no, they won't be taking allies or anything like that, I'm trying to create an atmosphere for them, I'm really trying to gauge how many points they should cost as well.

The setting I have in mind is HH, my buddy wants to play Legion wolves, the campaign will span multiple planets and a fleet controlled by Thunder Warriors.

Arik Taranis has perfected the creation of Thunder Warriors and has been amassing an army of Thunder Warriors for his own purposes. (this is where the monster stats come in)

They follow the Imperial Army's organization with legionesque tanks or age of strife equivalents.

What would be worth 50 points each?

Ohh I get you now.

Your playing as an alternative timeline where the Thunder Warriors are similar to the legions during the HH.

I always thought it would have been cool if a few Thunder Warriors had lived to bust some chaos heads during the siege of Terra.

At 50pts a piece they would need to be stupidly good. One of the big focus with the rule writing should be getting them into combat reliable in 6th.

Perhaps when they run they run D6 +3 and when they assault they should assault 2D6+3. Also give them fleet to help with bad rolls and they should have move through cover.

Since the fought a lot in a urban setting maybe they can have stealth or shrouded? Helps them survive AP3 attacks a lot better. I know these guys are huge but they would have learned a thing or two about concealment fighting on Terra.

I would increase their WS to 5 for sure and increase their fnp to a 4+.

Another thing you could do is base their stats around what a Orgyn currently is. Increase their Int, armour and WS and add some more USR. Since Orgyns are already 40pts but I don't know how you feel about that. This would just be to help actual play mechanics rather then a comparison fluffwise between a Thunder Warrior and a Orgyn.

Still 50Pts a guy would really limit how much stuff you could bring to the table. What size games are you playing?

I really want to pin down their base stats and then develop options from there

Well personally I would aim for pts level per model of around low to mid 20's. This allows you more room to add stuff into your games.

So marine stats with WS 5 and Str 5.

Some sort of ability to make them run faster or assault further. They should have rage, counter attack and fnp at the minimum.

All armed with bolt pistols, PW frags and kracks.

How does this sound?

Or would you prefer UBER warrior at around 50pts a piece?

Well, I am totally down with there being normal Warriors, and then perhaps using the Uber warriors as an elite choice, what I'm aiming for is resilience, durability, they don't move faster than Marines per say, the one defining trait they have is their ability to take punishment and then deal more in turn.

We are looking at 2k-3k games, possibly going into apoc for the siege of Terra type thing.

In my mind, I see them being death guard 2.0 with superior tactics and close combat capabilities.

The other thing is, the universal special rules don't have to be the only defining characteristics, rolling 3d6 for run could be compensated by starting closer deployment wise.
I'm no expert, I'm just trying to avoid a no fun scenario you know? People complain about meta lists being once sided, I feel like an increase in durability would change how people react to the presence of the squads, especially if they where bulky meat sticks riding inside a spartan assault tank :p


PLUS, the PROTO-Dreadnaughts, I can almost feel the steampunk vibe coming from the Thunder Warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Ohh I get you now.

Your playing as an alternative timeline where the Thunder Warriors are similar to the legions during the HH.

I always thought it would have been cool if a few Thunder Warriors had lived to bust some chaos heads during the siege of Terra.

At 50pts a piece they would need to be stupidly good. One of the big focus with the rule writing should be getting them into combat reliable in 6th.

Perhaps when they run they run D6 +3 and when they assault they should assault 2D6+3. Also give them fleet to help with bad rolls and they should have move through cover.

Since the fought a lot in a urban setting maybe they can have stealth or shrouded? Helps them survive AP3 attacks a lot better. I know these guys are huge but they would have learned a thing or two about concealment fighting on Terra.

I would increase their WS to 5 for sure and increase their fnp to a 4+.

Another thing you could do is base their stats around what a Orgyn currently is. Increase their Int, armour and WS and add some more USR. Since Orgyns are already 40pts but I don't know how you feel about that. This would just be to help actual play mechanics rather then a comparison fluffwise between a Thunder Warrior and a Orgyn.

Still 50Pts a guy would really limit how much stuff you could bring to the table. What size games are you playing?

Omg, I completely forgot about Ogryns, this is perfect, I'm trying to create power armored Ogryns, idk how realistic 3 wounds would be on Thunder Warriors, but it is definitely a step in the direction I was thinking.

If anything its perfect! THIS IS PERFECT!!! UBER UNITS LOL THUNDER WARRIORS WHERE OGRYNS WITH POWER ARMOR XD


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WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:3 I:4 A:3 LD:8 Save:3+ 50pts?

OR

WS:5 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:2 LD:8 3+ save

OR

WS:4 BS:4 S:4 :T:4 W:1 I:4 A:2 LD:8 3+ save

with Bulky, Adamantium Will USR for all

Go with the second option:

WS:5 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:2 LD:8 3+ save

Add in fnp, AW and pw for all and I think you are off to the races.

Play test it out and see how it goes

What do you think of the +1 str bolters?

I think +1 str bolt pistols would be better.

hmm, Perhaps they only come with bolt pistols and power weapons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe the should be able to buy +1 Str bolters, but don't come standard equiped with a str 6 bolter

Their stats are to be melee beasts. Having weapons that prevent you from assaulting would not be helpful. Also the Pistol gives you +1 A making it a lot better.

If you wanted to represent the big bore pistols they used make them Str 5 AP4.

At the very least they need bolters and some options.

Standard gear being a Bolter, Bolt Pistol and a Power weapon.

every third model may take a Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Plasma gun or Melta gun



Then we can develop their elites, they will definitely have devastator squad equivalents, but they will be capable of carrying heavier weapons multi melta, plasma cannons, heavy flamers, those times of things, Proto-Dreads will definitely be a thing, I imagine they where older age of strife models if any existed, I think higher AV values are in order.

You already have a legal unit with rules that roughly approximate Thunder Warriors.

Blood Angels Death Company.

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 3+

Furious Charge, Feel no Pain, Fearless, Relentless, Black Rage

Squads 3-30.

Make a counts as Astaroth to lead them and they can even be an army.

If you want to tweak the rules drop Black Rage so they are both scoring and do not have the rage special rule.

They can already have bolters and power weapons and fists, hand flamers and plasma/melta pistols might not be ideal but they are an option. Tweaking the rules again could give them access to special and heavy weapons, although combined with their relentless rule that could be a bit too powerful.

I like that idea, any ideas for Proto-Dreadnaughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
WS:5 BS:4 S:7 Front:13 Sides:13 Rear:11 I:4 A:1 HP:4

Wargear: Dreadnaught CCW, Twin-Linked autocannon

May replace its autocannon with one of the following
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter-free
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer-free
Twin Linked Plasma Cannon-25pts
Twin Linked Lascannon-30pts

USR: Furious Charge, Rampage, Adamantium Will

150 pts

 Magerdanu wrote:
I like that idea, any ideas for Proto-Dreadnaughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
WS:5 BS:4 S:7 Front:13 Sides:13 Rear:11 I:4 A:1 HP:4

Wargear: Dreadnaught CCW, Twin-Linked autocannon

May replace its autocannon with one of the following
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter-free
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer-free
Twin Linked Plasma Cannon-25pts
Twin Linked Lascannon-30pts

USR: Furious Charge, Rampage, Adamantium Will

150 pts

Drop the HP by 1 and I think that's fine.

How about
Thunder Warrior: WS:4 BS:3 S:5 T:4 W:1 I:4 A:2 Ld:8 Save: 3+
Thunder Sergeant: WS:4 BS:3 S:5 T:4 W:1 I:4 A:3 Ld:9
Thunder Champion: WS:5 BS:3 S:5: T:4 W:2: I:4 A:4 Ld:9
USR: Feel No Pain (5+), Furious Charge, Rampage
Sergeant is a character; Champion is an Independent character.

I see Thunder Warriors as cruder prototypes of the Astartes emphasizing close combat, like many here, but I think that means worse than the Marines in many ways, even tho they're better at melee. Hence BS:3 like a normal human -- they're strong and savage, not great shots or highly disciplined (i.e. no ATSKNF). I don't see Adamantium Will at all: If anything their highly emotional minds would be more vulnerable than usual to psykers.

 SisterSydney wrote:
How about
Thunder Warrior: WS:4 BS:3 S:5 T:4 W:1 I:4 A:2 Ld:8 Save: 3+
Thunder Sergeant: WS:4 BS:3 S:5 T:4 W:1 I:4 A:3 Ld:9
Thunder Champion: WS:5 BS:3 S:5: T:4 W:2: I:4 A:4 Ld:9
USR: Feel No Pain (5+), Furious Charge, Rampage
Sergeant is a character; Champion is an Independent character.

I see Thunder Warriors as cruder prototypes of the Astartes emphasizing close combat, like many here, but I think that means worse than the Marines in many ways, even tho they're better at melee. Hence BS:3 like a normal human -- they're strong and savage, not great hots or highly disciplined (i.e. no ATSKNF). I don't see Adamantium Will at all: If anything their highly emotional minds would be more vulnerable than usual to psykers.

"These warriors were a gestalt mix of unprecedented superhuman physical power, gene-programmed resistance to environmental and even psychic attack, a warlike spirit and the Emperor's own strategic genius."

"Though the Thunder Warriors were superior in every physical aspect of their creation to the later Space Marines, they suffered from one flaw the later Astartes would not"

The least you could do is read the lore -.-

I thought about using BS:3, but it just doesn't make any sense to make them terribad at shooting, Guardsmen and Tau have bs 3, commisars have bs 4, It would detract too much from the super soldier side of things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

 Magerdanu wrote:
I like that idea, any ideas for Proto-Dreadnaughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
WS:5 BS:4 S:7 Front:13 Sides:13 Rear:11 I:4 A:1 HP:4

Wargear: Dreadnaught CCW, Twin-Linked autocannon

May replace its autocannon with one of the following
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter-free
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer-free
Twin Linked Plasma Cannon-25pts
Twin Linked Lascannon-30pts

USR: Furious Charge, Rampage, Adamantium Will

150 pts

Drop the HP by 1 and I think that's fine.

Sounds good to me!

 Magerdanu wrote:

"These warriors were a gestalt mix of unprecedented superhuman physical power, gene-programmed resistance to environmental and even psychic attack, a warlike spirit and the Emperor's own strategic genius."

"Though the Thunder Warriors were superior in every physical aspect of their creation to the later Space Marines, they suffered from one flaw the later Astartes would not"

The least you could do is read the lore -.-

I thought about using BS:3, but it just doesn't make any sense to make them terribad at shooting, Guardsmen and Tau have bs 3, commisars have bs 4, It would detract too much from the super soldier side of things.

I certainly don't know the lore as well as many. What's the source of those quotes? Haven't seen 'em.

I don't see BS:3 as "terribad," but if they're "superior in every physical aspect" to Astartes, then yeah, BS:4. And if resistant to psychic attack, then yes, Adamantium Will.

The quotes are taken from the Wiki and Lexicanum, the sources they reference are "The Outcast Dead", "Betrayal and "Warhammer 40,000 Compilation (1st Edition), pp. 19-20"

For further reference in regards to just HOW much better physically they where than Astartes, they killed 3-4 their number in Astartes when they where at war. (There was a rebellion on a prison planet that involved some Thunder Warriors who where matched up against the early World eaters (known as War Hounds at the time), the rebellion ended in 5 hours but the butchers bill was high )

 Magerdanu wrote:
The quotes are taken from the Wiki and Lexicanum, the sources they reference are "The Outcast Dead", "Betrayal and "Warhammer 40,000 Compilation (1st Edition), pp. 19-20"

Problem is that Wiki is completely unreliable, and Lexicanum gets things wrong too from time to time. It already was wrong about things said in Betrayal.

For further reference in regards to just HOW much better physically they where than Astartes, they killed 3-4 their number in Astartes when they where at war. (There was a rebellion on a prison planet that involved some Thunder Warriors who where matched up against the early World eaters (known as War Hounds at the time), the rebellion ended in 5 hours but the butchers bill was high )

But there was three million rebels on the side of the Thunder Warriors, and Marines still kicked their arses.

Well for one, I have double checked the sources and it is accurate.

Three MILLION rebels isn't going to amount to anything vs one HUNDRED THOUSAND Astartes, especially in close quarters where the quality of the soldiers really shine.


I understand that smurfs look like the punching bag in this new canon, the problem is, they really aren't, when 90% of the fiction of 40k is based on space marines there has to be some sort of greater force arrayed against them, they ARE the soldiers destined to rule the galaxy, they AREN'T the perfect killing machines endowed with the Emperors strategic wisdom.

Therein lies the difference and that is the way it will stay

I'm not sure modelling thunder warriors would be easy, that Mk1 armour doesn't come in plastic form, but I can see painting a small allied detachment using death company rules to run alongside my Dark Angels. They'd have to have a Rhino I guess, so that's a limit of ten models.

A mix of bolt pistol/power axes (to maximise killing power) and bolters (because relentless).

Dark blue armour?