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 Perturabo's Chosen wrote:
um, 5 minutes ago was a picture all all the knight models GW released back in Titan Legions, and now they're gone. Why?

I got them all here if you want them.
But I think this is all that is needed

Well, it's nice to see knights back...

At the rate things are going, it's only a matter of time....

my dear Squats.

This was a rumor thread about knights coming. They came. Rumor over. Turned into a strange gathering of moaners, groaners, doom sayers, paniky petes, and speculators. IMHO. Mod, when ya' closin' this (dead) thread down?

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
This was a rumor thread about knights coming. They came. Rumor over. Turned into a strange gathering of moaners, groaners, doom sayers, paniky petes, and speculators. IMHO. Mod, when ya' closin' this (dead) thread down?

I considered, as the OP, requesting the same.

Then I realised we haven't seen all the releases yet, so if this thread was closed, another would become necessary in a few days.

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
Turned into a strange gathering of moaners, groaners, doom sayers, paniky petes, and speculators. IMHO.

Don't forget the Tourette's Syndrome sufferers!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Perturabo's Chosen wrote:
um, 5 minutes ago was a picture all all the knight models GW released back in Titan Legions, and now they're gone. Why?

I got them all here if you want them.
But I think this is all that is needed

THIS is exactly what the future of 40K will look like, 1 player brings their funky ork army while his opponent brings 2 x 3 imperial knight detachment.

Almost forgot - for the Aussies out there, Mil Sims reckons they'll have the Knights for AU$125 +$7.50 postage anywhere in mainland Oz.

wufai wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Perturabo's Chosen wrote:
um, 5 minutes ago was a picture all all the knight models GW released back in Titan Legions, and now they're gone. Why?

I got them all here if you want them.
But I think this is all that is needed

THIS is exactly what the future of 40K will look like, 1 player brings their funky ork army while his opponent brings 2 x 3 imperial knight detachment.

That's pretty damn funny. Have an exalt!

Watch as 40K's next release is: 'to make moving armies easier, we are releasing special movement trays that hold an entire squad, so you can move them all at once!"

They could re-use the War of the Ring trays............

 Perturabo's Chosen wrote:
Nothing's quite like an internet argument over speculation. Why not save the rage for next week? (or when the significant other gets the creditcard bill)

You have misunderstood. There is no rage. Just mild bemusement at GW's apparent mishandling of this particular rules release.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

wufai wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Perturabo's Chosen wrote:
um, 5 minutes ago was a picture all all the knight models GW released back in Titan Legions, and now they're gone. Why?

I got them all here if you want them.
But I think this is all that is needed

THIS is exactly what the future of 40K will look like, 1 player brings their funky ork army while his opponent brings 2 x 3 imperial knight detachment.

That's pretty damn funny. Have an exalt!

Watch as 40K's next release is: 'to make moving armies easier, we are releasing special movement trays that hold an entire squad, so you can move them all at once!"

They could re-use the War of the Ring trays............

Oh you mean these?



If they make trays like this for 20-30 models with would be helpfull for GI and Orks players...

Yup, pretty soon with those, a hugely disposable income, and a 8x10 playing area, you can play Epic 40K in 28mm scale.

 warboss wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

Or it could just be a realization that the rule that vehicles can't score or contest was absurd in the first place, especially since MC's can.

So the solution is to allow an army of nothing but heavily armored vehicles in which each and every model is scoring and immune to on average 80% of weapons in opposing squads? There was a reason why the old 3rd edition IG all Tank force allowed glances on 6s to pen regardless of the weapon str and it still was an unfun army to face that most people in my store refused to play after one game. I dont want to play apoc at 1500pts yet that seems to be the route GW keeps going. This IMO would have better been done as @ 0-2 choice that replaced allies only but I guess that wouldn't sell as many models.

maybe except this is an army of absolutly TINY numbers. so it, theoreticly, should average out. after all the guns on your average troops are being used to clear out infantry anyway, if you're playing a 1500 point game you're only fighting 4 models.

BrianDavion wrote:
after all the guns on your average troops are being used to clear out infantry anyway, if you're playing a 1500 point game you're only fighting 4 models.

That's fine if there are infantry. Otherwise, yes, you're only fighting 4 models... but they're 4 models that the majority of your army can't actually damage.


As was previously mentioned, this is exactly why the old Armoured Company list added in 'Lucky Shots'... without it, you wind up with a rather boring game where only one side can actually hurt the other. That's not fun for anybody.

 insaniak wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
after all the guns on your average troops are being used to clear out infantry anyway, if you're playing a 1500 point game you're only fighting 4 models.

That's fine if there are infantry. Otherwise, yes, you're only fighting 4 models... but they're 4 models that the majority of your army can't actually damage.


As was previously mentioned, this is exactly why the old Armoured Company list added in 'Lucky Shots'... without it, you wind up with a rather boring game where only one side can actually hurt the other. That's not fun for anybody.

And yet strangely GW has decided to relive the (bad parts of) the glory days of 3rd edition by bringing something relatively unfun like that back without the only token balancing factor it had along with the tradition of overpowered rules snippets (but in digital form via dataslates instead of "chapter approved" articles). I'm curious if the Legion of the Damned book will be the modern equivalent of the all Death Company 3rd ed WD army.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yup, pretty soon with those, a hugely disposable income, and a 8x10 playing area, you can play Epic 40K in 28mm scale.

Isn't that Apoc already? Some of the armies tossed around in those games cost more than I make in a year

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
This was a rumor thread about knights coming. They came. Rumor over. Turned into a strange gathering of moaners, groaners, doom sayers, paniky petes, and speculators. IMHO. Mod, when ya' closin' this (dead) thread down?

Getting a bit premature? The knights aren't even out yet, we don't know what will come after the model and the WD blurb on them, a codex, more models, etc. We don't even know how tall it is


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yup, pretty soon with those, a hugely disposable income, and a 8x10 playing area, you can play Epic 40K in 28mm scale.

Funny thing is, I was always more interested in playing 40k on an epic scale than the other way around, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Padre wrote:
Almost forgot - for the Aussies out there, Mil Sims reckons they'll have the Knights for AU$125 +$7.50 postage anywhere in mainland Oz.

I think that's about average for discount places? There's a few discounters that give 20% discount, 155*0.8 = $124. So I expect a few discounters in the 120-125 range.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think that's about average for discount places? There's a few discounters that give 20% discount, 155*0.8 = $124. So I expect a few discounters in the 120-125 range.

Yup, just about spot on. I mention Mil Sims specifically as they're a long established, reliable and reputable store based out of Melbourne... and it seems a good price for postage too.

(No, am not affiliated, etc etc).

 warboss wrote:

So the solution is to allow an army of nothing but heavily armored vehicles in which each and every model is scoring and immune to on average 80% of weapons in opposing squads?

It's also an army where they've got little effective long range AT (the melta cannon being only rather effective under 18" and the battle cannons throwing out a maximum of 12 S8 shots a turn at 2250pts, which isn't much), has basically no way to deal with AV11+ flyers, and would otherwise have no way to win a game short of tabling an opponent. Barring whatever allies clarifications there are, it's an army that is inherently one-dimensional and exceedingly vulnerable to a number of well established tactics. Woe be to the Knight player facing an SM gunline with a couple pods of combi-melta Sternguard for example (put the shield to the sides or rear to help with the meltas and the kraks and lascannons on the other side of the table get through free, set the shield to the front and the sternguard get a free kill).


Besides, there have always been armies like that which would ignore large amounts of one's shooting, what do you do against Mech lists (particularly Necron) that are immune to all of your anti-infantry guns? Just looking at some raw averages, if you could deal with entrenched Leman Russ tanks in 5E, you can deal with a Knight in 6E even easier.

There was a reason why the old 3rd edition IG all Tank force allowed glances on 6s to pen regardless of the weapon str and it still was an unfun army to face that most people in my store refused to play after one game.

It was an army that was absurdly easy to deal with sporting those rules, especially in 3E. If you didn't have fun playing it's not because you had trouble killing it with that rule in there (particularly as glances could still kill tanks and vehicles couldn't get cover saves).

One will notice they didn't reprint such a rule for the it's 2nd Chapter Approved incarnation nor for any of it's 3 FW follow-on's in 4E, 5E and 6E

I dont want to play apoc at 1500pts yet that seems to be the route GW keeps going. This IMO would have better been done as @ 0-2 choice that replaced allies only but I guess that wouldn't sell as many models.

It wouldn't sell as many models. That said, this army isn't as ridiculous as it's being made out to be.

You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

Worried about losing next time your Orks go up against Marines, 'cos you know your buddy bought three Knights to add to his force? Buy three Knights to add to your force! Simple.

Anyone seen this zweischeid? it couldn't be?
http://pinsofwar.com/poll-dreamforge-leviathan-or-games-workshop-knight/

 Vaktathi wrote:
It was an army that was absurdly easy to deal with sporting those rules, especially in 3E. If you didn't have fun playing it's not because you had trouble killing it with that rule in there (particularly as glances could still kill tanks and vehicles couldn't get cover saves).

One will notice they didn't reprint such a rule for the it's 2nd Chapter Approved incarnation nor for any of it's 3 FW follow-on's in 4E, 5E and 6E

Couldn't've said it better. Lucky Glancing Hits was a terrible rule.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

Yeah! Who needs balanced rules when everyone can take giant stompy robots! Balanced rules are just for TFG WAAC players, and everyone hates them.

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia: 'Cause winning is for losers!

I was told that our distributor ordered the CODEX as well as the knight s.

So yes there will be a codex.

110 euro? lol, no thanks!

But if you buy the Iron Brotherhood for 550,00 € you get 5 art prints for free!

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

I doubt 'nids and 'crons will be able to..

So, I just realized that the +1 to Steal the Initiative rolls and the +1 VP for removing 3 HPs is only for Lords of War, it's not an inherent thing for all super-heavies. I wonder if that's how the Knights will be, or if the next White Dwarf or the codex will amend that.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I do not understand why they allowed that. It basically means that the only weapons I can use are inferno pistols melta, multi-melta and maybe, maybe exorcist missile launchers.
Everything else is USELESS.
I had already an hard time justifying taking a few flamethrowers. Way to encourage fun and fluffy armies…

I think, GW's current business model is the following:
1.) Don't expect any new customers.
2.) Don't count on existing customers to start a new army.
3.) Expand the rules so that the player with the most new 100$+ Godzilla kits wins with every ordinary army just watching helplessly.

In other words: They don't care about existing armies, they change rules so that only new products have any chance of winning: "Pay to win!"

insaniak wrote:

You know there's a Codex coming. .

I know no such thing. We have no official indication so far that this will be anything other than a White Dwarf release.

Accept the fact that March has 3 more release weekends to fill, that GW staff is mortally afraid to talk about future releases and that on release day, the only official ruleset has got discontinued. We will see a rules release for this new army, most probably announced in the WD standing nex t to the new boxes.

Ian Sturrock wrote:You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

Finally my Tyranids can get what they always wanted to stay competitive in this game: Imperial Knights!
May I take a Godzilla toy as count as, pretty please?

Seriously, only Imperial armies are allowed to take this super heavy:
"Yes, game balance is preserved, as everyone can buy an Imperial Knight army."

 BaronIveagh wrote:
SM, Tyranids, Eldar, DE, Tau,, dear fething god, the fish, the fish...

No, the SM guy was just the one that stuck out, because he bitched about how unfair it was that IG had defeated him, and that the list was OP, because it was guard and he couldn't run over it in four turns.

I had been run over by the rape train several times, and it was nice to drive it for once.

Does that make it good game design, no. Was it a lot of fun to administer ironic vengeance on those who told me to throw out my Steel Legion and get a 'real army "? Oh, oh yes.

How is that in any way to the fact an all-Knight army (so, NOT an Imperial Guard army) is a very bad idea because it is totally immune to most weapons of opposing armies, and makes most troops even more useless than before ?

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

Worried about losing next time your Orks go up against Marines, 'cos you know your buddy bought three Knights to add to his force? Buy three Knights to add to your force! Simple.

Same here, how does that fix the problem that most of the weapons from my army will be totally useless against the Knights ? Are you really saying that instead of complaining, I should just switch to playing an all-Knight army myself or something ? Did it not occur to you that this would not solve my problem (bolters and flamethrowers being useless), but would only cost me money and drive me away from the army that I want to play because of its fluff and models ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
"Yes, game balance is preserved, as everyone can buy an Imperial Knight army."

The game is balanced : you can play mirror match if you just buy a copy of everything on your opponent's army list .

Sorry, I should have added a smiley.

I am not seriously suggesting that everyone should buy 3 Knights.

I am, instead, agreeing with earlier posters, that GW doesn't give a fig for game balance, but knows that Knights will sell like hot cakes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
It was an army that was absurdly easy to deal with sporting those rules, especially in 3E. If you didn't have fun playing it's not because you had trouble killing it with that rule in there (particularly as glances could still kill tanks and vehicles couldn't get cover saves).

One will notice they didn't reprint such a rule for the it's 2nd Chapter Approved incarnation nor for any of it's 3 FW follow-on's in 4E, 5E and 6E

Couldn't've said it better. Lucky Glancing Hits was a terrible rule.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
You game balance killjoys are missing the fact that EVERYONE can take Knights to add to their armies.

Yeah! Who needs balanced rules when everyone can take giant stompy robots! Balanced rules are just for TFG WAAC players, and everyone hates them.

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia: 'Cause winning is for losers!

And remember, its not power gaming when FAACers do it, its "tactical".