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bodazoka wrote:
band wagon

hate.

whining

I think that's the Internet buzzword trifecta right there? I believe there's a prize involved.

Keep up the good work. Or don't. Whatever.


And in any case, if you can understand this:

insaniak wrote:Instead, we have a model that, while admittedly awesome, has two variants that are just a single weapon swap... and this for some inexplicable reason is enough for an expensive hardcover codex and an even more expensive 'companion' book. We simply haven't been given enough information to assume anything but the worst on this.

... then you'll never be able to understand my ire towards this release. I love the model - love it to bits - but what's being done with the model is sickening.

 insaniak wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
You have ZERO idea what the releases are ZERO!

Yeah, see.. that's the entire problem.

GW decided, for whatever reason, to release the rules after the model. So with their ridiculous need for secrecy until the precise moment of release, that leaves everyone speculating based on what information we have been given.

And given that the information that we have been given has included a mention of only a single model, a website entry that included in incorrect height, and a White Dwarf articule in which they forgot to include key rules... is it really a big surprise that people might be a little pessimistic about this release?


If GW had been hyping this since the model was unveiled, and had told us that a codex was coming that included a whole bunch of options and gear that the Knight could take, and auxilliary units, and a recipe for a nice relaxing Chai Tea brought back from India by Jervis's Great-great-great Grandfather, then peope might have something to be all excited about it.

Instead, we have a model that, while admittedly awesome, has two variants that are just a single weapon swap... and this for some inexplicable reason is enough for an expensive hardcover codex and an even more expensive 'companion' book. We simply haven't been given enough information to assume anything but the worst on this.

I have no problem with the above. I was predominately responding to the hyperbole and the consistency of the hate. I come on here for updates on these knights but I have to sift through gak. It's kind of annoying and it got to me so I responded. You also throw in the fact it's the same people who carry on for almost every release you can now see why I'm pissed.

As to what you posted, maybe we are just different people mate but I see as many positives in this release as there are negatives.. I'm also a glass half full guy so.. when I see a large price for what appears to be only two models I think there must be more to the release than the knights which GW has kept under wraps. As I have said.. if I am wrong then I won't be happy but id prefer to wait than explode my nerd goo bomb all over dakka too early.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
band wagon

hate.

whining

I think that's the Internet buzzword trifecta right there? I believe there's a prize involved.

Keep up the good work. Or don't. Whatever.


And in any case, if you can understand this:

insaniak wrote:Instead, we have a model that, while admittedly awesome, has two variants that are just a single weapon swap... and this for some inexplicable reason is enough for an expensive hardcover codex and an even more expensive 'companion' book. We simply haven't been given enough information to assume anything but the worst on this.

... then you'll never be able to understand my ire towards this release. I love the model - love it to bits - but what's being done with the model is sickening.

So you honestly despise them enough to think they have no idea what the rules are for the model when they released it. You realize how stupid that seems? They aren't telling us the rules for the Freeblades/Allies for a reason, not blind stupidity that they forgot to write them .

 ace101 wrote:
[So you honestly despise them enough to think they have no idea what the rules are for the model when they released it. You realize how stupid that seems? .

It's not the first time the White Dwarf guys havent been told how something was going to work ahead of time.

And yes, doing a preview article showcasing rules that they haven't actually been given yet is indeed a reasonably stupid idea.

 insaniak wrote:

 ace101 wrote:
[So you honestly despise them enough to think they have no idea what the rules are for the model when they released it. You realize how stupid that seems? .

It's not the first time the White Dwarf guys havent been told how something was going to work ahead of time.

And yes, doing a preview article showcasing rules that they haven't actually been given yet is indeed a reasonably stupid idea.

Let alone "forgetting" to include some fairly significant rules you did know about.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Here's the Imperial Knight FAQ apparently...

Q: What slot do the Knight Titans take up in the Force Org?
A: Knight Titans do not take up any slot in the Force Org.

Q: Are Knight Titans Lords of War, and fall under the rules for Lords of War for Escalation and Apocalypse?
A: They are not Lords of War, but do use the Superheavy Walker Special Rules.

Q: What Army do they belong to, and who can they Ally with?
A: They are affiliated with either the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Imperial Knights choose to forsake all ties to a noble house. Known as Freeblades, they are masters of their own destiny and can ally with anyone they choose.

Q: Are they Scoring units?
A: Yes, all Imperial Knights are scoring units

Q: How many Knight Titans do I need to field a Primary Detatchment, and how many for an Allied Detatchment?
A: If you are playing as a Primary detatchment then 3-6 and pick one as your warlord, if they are an ally you may have 1-3.

Q: "As a Freeblade, what kind of Ally are they to other armies?"
A: Currently we are not sure, until more information arrives it would be safe to assume they are Allies of Convenience.

Q: "Can they be used in Pre Heresy Armies?"
A: Yes as both Primary and Allied detatchments, as stated before, many Knight Houses pleged oaths of loyalty to the Imperium, Adeptus Mechanicus, or have become Freeblades.

Wait,wait,wait,wait,wait a freakin minute!

Where did you get that FaQ?...

Juste checked the GW site, there was nothing new since October.

 insaniak wrote:

 ace101 wrote:
[So you honestly despise them enough to think they have no idea what the rules are for the model when they released it. You realize how stupid that seems? .

It's not the first time the White Dwarf guys havent been told how something was going to work ahead of time.

And yes, doing a preview article showcasing rules that they haven't actually been given yet is indeed a reasonably stupid idea.

They had some of the rules down, so they obviously had to have seen them to put some of them down. The Q&A is probably leading us on so we'll actually buy the book to see whats inside.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Here's the Imperial Knight FAQ apparently...

Q: What slot do the Knight Titans take up in the Force Org?
A: Knight Titans do not take up any slot in the Force Org.

Q: Are Knight Titans Lords of War, and fall under the rules for Lords of War for Escalation and Apocalypse?
A: They are not Lords of War, but do use the Superheavy Walker Special Rules.

Q: What Army do they belong to, and who can they Ally with?
A: They are affiliated with either the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Imperial Knights choose to forsake all ties to a noble house. Known as Freeblades, they are masters of their own destiny and can ally with anyone they choose.

Q: Are they Scoring units?
A: Yes, all Imperial Knights are scoring units

Q: How many Knight Titans do I need to field a Primary Detatchment, and how many for an Allied Detatchment?
A: If you are playing as a Primary detatchment then 3-6 and pick one as your warlord, if they are an ally you may have 1-3.

Q: "As a Freeblade, what kind of Ally are they to other armies?"
A: Currently we are not sure, until more information arrives it would be safe to assume they are Allies of Convenience.

Q: "Can they be used in Pre Heresy Armies?"
A: Yes as both Primary and Allied detatchments, as stated before, many Knight Houses pleged oaths of loyalty to the Imperium, Adeptus Mechanicus, or have become Freeblades.

Wait,wait,wait,wait,wait a freakin minute!

Where did you get that FaQ?...

Juste checked the GW site, there was nothing new since October.

I was wondering the same thing...where did this come from?

And did anybody else notice the repeated reference to the "Knight TITAN"?

Note, Kan qualified the quote with "apparently" so we probably need a citation.

Also, the word Titan doesn't appear in direct relation to Knight in the whole of White Dwarf, so this has either been rewritten by someone who doesn't know the difference, or is made up.

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Ctan_Overlord wrote:
Someone posted a rough size comparison between the knight and a Wraithknight on Reddit.
Makes me much more hesitant to pay €110 for it...

*snip*

That doesn't even look remotely right.

Its dead on scale compared to the Epic models. Check out the Epic Eldar Fire Gale behind the Crusader compared to the Paladin.

It was posted on a GW store's Facebook page.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted on a GW store's Facebook page.

Ah, so every chance it is made up redshirt bullgak.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted on a GW store's Facebook page.

Ah, so every chance it is made up redshirt bullgak.

We're not sure.

And neither are they, apparently.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
Just guess, but I think the companion guide will be a collection of things we normally would see in other prints. I will not be surprised if the companion is a collection of things like...

Warlords of the Dark Millennium

Altar of War

Index Astartes

How To Paint...

If you add up the cost if all of those things to create a Codex Dark Angels Companion and it would be in the $75 dollar range. So yeah, A lot of fluff and matbe a few new missions to run with knight in mind. Of course some of that stuff might be in the codex instead...

And why wouldn't you put those things in the Codex? Right now we have an entire full-priced Codex that has a single unit with 1 weapon option... and then a supplement for that book on the same day. What about this required two books?

I agree with the dude from drop bear land. Why not make one book?

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It was posted on a GW store's Facebook page.

Ah, so every chance it is made up redshirt bullgak.

As of this moment, it's being listed as "a quote from Jes Bickham and the White Dwarf team" ...and it was posted during one of the days off that the shop has, so I think it's fairly legitimate.

 kronk wrote:
I agree with the dude from drop bear land. Why not make one book?

One does not simply forge a narrative in a single book.

Thanks for clarifying that source, guys...it really does appear though that GW has dropped the ball a bit with their handling of the background to this model.

On a completely different note...

In the OP, this was mentioned, along with a slew of other weapons options...

"Optional quad-missile array"

Just looking at the model, there is a hole / recess at the very top of the carapace which would be perfect for mounting a launcher for the above-mentioned missiles, ala the original "Knight Warden".

Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not...

(edited for spelling.)

 Kanluwen wrote:
Here's the Imperial Knight FAQ apparently...

Q: What slot do the Knight Titans take up in the Force Org?
A: Knight Titans do not take up any slot in the Force Org.

Q: Are Knight Titans Lords of War, and fall under the rules for Lords of War for Escalation and Apocalypse?
A: They are not Lords of War, but do use the Superheavy Walker Special Rules.

Q: What Army do they belong to, and who can they Ally with?
A: They are affiliated with either the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Imperial Knights choose to forsake all ties to a noble house. Known as Freeblades, they are masters of their own destiny and can ally with anyone they choose.

Q: Are they Scoring units?
A: Yes, all Imperial Knights are scoring units

Q: How many Knight Titans do I need to field a Primary Detatchment, and how many for an Allied Detatchment?
A: If you are playing as a Primary detatchment then 3-6 and pick one as your warlord, if they are an ally you may have 1-3.

Q: "As a Freeblade, what kind of Ally are they to other armies?"
A: Currently we are not sure, until more information arrives it would be safe to assume they are Allies of Convenience.

Q: "Can they be used in Pre Heresy Armies?"
A: Yes as both Primary and Allied detatchments, as stated before, many Knight Houses pleged oaths of loyalty to the Imperium, Adeptus Mechanicus, or have become Freeblades.

I CALL BS ON THIS POST. IMPERIAL KNIGHTS ARE NOT TITANS, GW ISNT AND HASNT REFERED TO THESE AS TITANS...

 Padre wrote:


Just looking at the model, there is a hole / recess at the very top of the carapace which would be perfect for mounting a launcher for the above-mentioned missiles, ala the original "Knight Warden".

Also a good spot for mounting banner poles and the spikes shown in Jes's little Knight sketch in the WD.

T

 Padre wrote:
Thanks for clarifying that source, guys...it really does appear though that GW has dropped the ball a bit with their handling of the background to this model.

On a completely different note...

In the OP, this was mentioned, along with a slew of other weapons options...

"Optional quad-missile array"

Just looking at the model, there is a hole / recess at the very top of the carapace which would be perfect for mounting a launcher for the above-mentioned missiles, ala the original "Knight Warden".

Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not...

(edited for spelling.)

The issue with that set of info is it is from BoLS, which isn't a great start, and everything from that list we can currently verify is either wrong or simply extraordinarily easy to play the odds on.

I wouldn't be prepared to call all of it nonsense, but again, that we will likely see more weapon options from FW is somewhat of a no brainer, so I wouldn't write it off, but I wouldn't get excited either.

We've seen sprues, so if it was an in-box option, we'd know.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Here's the Imperial Knight FAQ apparently...

Q: What slot do the Knight Titans take up in the Force Org?
A: Knight Titans do not take up any slot in the Force Org.

Q: Are Knight Titans Lords of War, and fall under the rules for Lords of War for Escalation and Apocalypse?
A: They are not Lords of War, but do use the Superheavy Walker Special Rules.

Q: What Army do they belong to, and who can they Ally with?
A: They are affiliated with either the Imperium or the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some Imperial Knights choose to forsake all ties to a noble house. Known as Freeblades, they are masters of their own destiny and can ally with anyone they choose.

Q: Are they Scoring units?
A: Yes, all Imperial Knights are scoring units

Q: How many Knight Titans do I need to field a Primary Detatchment, and how many for an Allied Detatchment?
A: If you are playing as a Primary detatchment then 3-6 and pick one as your warlord, if they are an ally you may have 1-3.

Q: "As a Freeblade, what kind of Ally are they to other armies?"
A: Currently we are not sure, until more information arrives it would be safe to assume they are Allies of Convenience.

Q: "Can they be used in Pre Heresy Armies?"
A: Yes as both Primary and Allied detatchments, as stated before, many Knight Houses pleged oaths of loyalty to the Imperium, Adeptus Mechanicus, or have become Freeblades.

So this is a D weapon carrying, nonLoW choice, super heavy walker, non-FOC placement, scoring unit... So my ork army cannot score with a unit of burnaz on foot, but I can take a knight titan and sit it on an objective instead.

I am curious as to how GW will even come close to stabilizing the game now, it feels like it's jumped the shark since escalation and I don't know how they will get the rabbit back in the box, short of some truly draconian cut to superheavies and such in the next edition to render them all near useless again and put people off taking them... I just don't see anything like a thoughtful or strategic game coming of all these recent shifts, but a sort of putting everything on the table and making 'pew pew' noises.

I am having some difficulty justifying this path to myself as a gamer and someone who maintains that what I do is 'mature, strategic, requires intellect, is competitive etc' when it now just looks like total chaos on the table. What is the point of a FOC? What is the reasoning behind troops scoring when elites can't but a superheavy walker can? Why on earth did someone think that introducing D weaponry to the standard game was going to work or be enjoyable to play?

It all feels adrift atm, I am wondering where we will shore up. I can only think at this time that the release of a streamlined and more 'sensible' game system within 40k, perhaps as a supplement for use in tourneys and such, is the way to bring some clarity back to the game, I really have never seen anything like this in my 27 years using games workshop's systems.

It leaves me deeply concerned over the future of the game, it feels like wild threshing about and desperation.

I think it was Da Boss who earlier wrote that the Knight is the 40Kest model ever. +1

Great toy, great excessively expensive toy. So pretty.

Except, I think the mechanics of the CCW arm are dumb, some more articulation is necessary to make it a convincing weapon.

Other than that, if these were $70.00 or so, I'd have three.

>has a sad, now goes to DF





>has more sad, all out of stock

Again, I still don't understand why it not using the FOC is such a huge problem- it's 3-6 knights as a primary detachment, 1-3 as allies. There is no need for a FOC. Unless you're doing some crazy stuff like picking and choosing what units you're going to field regardless of the codex or allies, it's irrelevant.

My guess is that GW assumes it's going to the wall soon, and is aiming for one last cash grab. Game balance? Who cares?

So have the rumors from 40K Radio about Ad Mech lists, etc. in the codex been confirmed to be false?

 gorgon wrote:
So have the rumors from 40K Radio about Ad Mech lists, etc. in the codex been confirmed to be false?

No, they have just been forgotten about here.

I am super excited to see what form an Ad Mech list will take!

 gorgon wrote:
So have the rumors from 40K Radio about Ad Mech lists, etc. in the codex been confirmed to be false?

One of the things I took away from the White Dwarf is a fairly strong delineation between the Imperial and Mechanicus households, and the Freeblades. Whether that translates into distinct rules for each in the book or not, I couldn't say, but of there was room for misinterpretation, that would be it.

 gorgon wrote:
So have the rumors from 40K Radio about Ad Mech lists, etc. in the codex been confirmed to be false?

With GWs recent shift to only releasing rules for units that have models that seems like a rare miss for 40k radio. Unless they are sitting on a ton of Ad Mech minis no one has seen to leak rumors about. Which seems unlikely this close.

It's probably a crossed wire. FW are gearing up for a Mechanicum expansion, so they might have been talking about that without realising.

 Eldarain wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
So have the rumors from 40K Radio about Ad Mech lists, etc. in the codex been confirmed to be false?

With GWs recent shift to only releasing rules for units that have models that seems like a rare miss for 40k radio. Unless they are sitting on a ton of Ad Mech minis no one has seen to leak rumors about. Which seems unlikely this close.

Well, we know that there are Ad-Mech aligned houses based on the decals. So "Ad-Mech lists" could simply be Knights with some sort of "chapter traits" based on their allegiance to the AM. It wouldn't mean that the rumor was false, it would just be disappointing...