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 455_PWR wrote:


So its a hell of a deal! I just hope they don't add too much more as my wallet is getting stretched thin, and Zombicide season 3 is just around the corner!

Not really. Almost 100% of the add-ons are almost the exact same price we will be able to get them from discounters/ebay. Not being exclusive means there is no incentive to buy them now. Money is worth much more in my hands than theirs. All the Heroes are barley a deal and I can pay 39 cents to not buy now (and probably get them cheaper if you are patient)

The core set is a deal, all the stretch goals are diluting that deal (as intended). Every full price hero you buy or 20$ boss is diluting the value of the core set.

So you are getting potentially 135$ worth of Retail for 100$ and the add-ons you are getting 50$ worth of add-ons for 50$...

Sodapop isn't giving us the same value they give retailers. If they can afford to make a product and profit off what they give it to retailers as, then why can't they do that for us and still make profit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
So does that mean that the prices for all SDE are going up at retail then?

Or...am I confused?

They probably will... Welcome to 15$ SINGLE MINIATURES... Giving GW run for their money.

10/13 is 77%, 23% off. So it fits in like with the discount they claimed. I doubt the prices are changing soon.

The $30 things will probably end up at $40 retail.

nkelsch, I am surprised you are so negative toward this campaign considering how supportive you have been of SDE over its history. Are there any particular factors that turned you off? I've paid fairly close attention to this one and it strikes me as being run very well -with the exception of sparse updates.

nkelsch wrote:

 455_PWR wrote:


So its a hell of a deal! I just hope they don't add too much more as my wallet is getting stretched thin, and Zombicide season 3 is just around the corner!

Not really. Almost 100% of the add-ons are almost the exact same price we will be able to get them from discounters/ebay. Not being exclusive means there is no incentive to buy them now. Money is worth much more in my hands than theirs. All the Heroes are barley a deal and I can pay 39 cents to not buy now (and probably get them cheaper if you are patient)

The core set is a deal, all the stretch goals are diluting that deal (as intended). Every full price hero you buy or 20$ boss is diluting the value of the core set.

So you are getting potentially 135$ worth of Retail for 100$ and the add-ons you are getting 50$ worth of add-ons for 50$...

Sodapop isn't giving us the same value they give retailers. If they can afford to make a product and profit off what they give it to retailers as, then why can't they do that for us and still make profit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
So does that mean that the prices for all SDE are going up at retail then?

Or...am I confused?

They probably will... Welcome to 15$ SINGLE MINIATURES... Giving GW run for their money.

The whole point of a kickstarter is to raise money to kickstart the project! The more money they raise, the more loot we get, the better the final product. If you think you'll get any of the add-ons, you might as well get them now.

Amazon sells the base set at 30% off, ie. a $100 MSRP game for $70, with free shipping. That means that they'll sell FK for $70. That means all the SG at the end of the KS, costs you $30 through the KS. At least domestically, I really doubt you'll get all that stuff for $30 with free shipping. Internationals might have a completely different situation, however.

As for the add-ons, I'll agree that you're not getting much of a discount compared to OLGS.

While Amazon may (in the USA) offer SDE for $70 (MRSP $100) this is an 'old' game

I suspect that they will not offer such a hefty discount for the first year or two on Forgotten King

The shipping issue is beginning to worry me a bit, I must admit - I have a vague sense that adding on more stuff will mean more postage, but without even approximate guides it's impossible to say

Reaper Bones II cost over $50 (excluding VAT & handling fees) to ship its $100 level to the UK, for example, but the multitude of extras varied wildly in shipping weight - some made no difference, some (like the huge diorama) cost almost as much to ship as their add-on price!

With everyone paying actual price this time, there's a real argument to be made for not adding anything on, because the 20-30% price difference from retail will possibly be eclipsed by the shipping.

By the way, the 400k $ step has been reached.

So free cards to play minibosses as Heroes for everyone.

Guess we will have an update later and have some news about what will be next after the Emerald Valley.

 Dais wrote:
10/13 is 77%, 23% off. So it fits in like with the discount they claimed. I doubt the prices are changing soon.

The $30 things will probably end up at $40 retail.

nkelsch, I am surprised you are so negative toward this campaign considering how supportive you have been of SDE over its history. Are there any particular factors that turned you off? I've paid fairly close attention to this one and it strikes me as being run very well -with the exception of sparse updates.

*Poorly run and fullfiled Relic Knights Campaign
*9 Months of promising TFK release for Q1 2014 only to then do a KS to ask for money for something we will not get until Q2 2015 at the earliest because if they slip 1 day past christmas they will be sunk for 2 months by Chinese new year
*The general 'not discount' of the entire project. I feel they should be able to give us what retailers get and they still make profit. Least they can do for us paying for stuff which should have been available at retail.
*The only reason they need to kickstart and we are forced to crowdfund these is because they miss-managed their money and their company. These should have been released at retail today, where we would have been paying close to these prices via minimarket or amazon and not wait 9 months.
*ZERO rules previews. The current SDE rules are shakey and turn people off. While fun, it is a tough sell to people not into SDE. They could have KS new rules and released the TFK to keep them on 1 release a year. They clearly had plenty of designs for a new-rule relaunch.
*9-18 months of continued irrelevance of SDE, with no freshening of the current game. 2 years will have passed from Von Drakk when this finally hits backers.

Their track record warrants skepticism, the inconvenience of a product which is supposed to have been released by deserves a legitimate discount to what retailers would get it at and if it wasn't that I *WANT* the models, I wouldn't even consider blindly backing the unseen rules or a company with such shaky KS reputation or observed poor business sense.

Hence the 100$ pledge makes sense. It is a good enuff deal to risk and to put up with the potential shenanigans. Paying 10$ for a model I can get 9$ later or for expansions which I can pick up for close to the same price later, and none of it is exclusive... why would I add-on these add-ons? I simply don't trust Sodapop to know how to run itself correctly or fullfill a KS and they seem to have gotten a little greedy because they are starved for money. (hence the breaking of the still yet undelivered RK exclusives)

23% discount when I can get 30% from amazon is not a deal and doesn't justify pre-pledging. What they give to retailers is the threshold. That is what you get for not having exclusives, people pass on your over-priced, bloated add-ons.

While I may agree with some of the above (especially the lack of rules previews)

I don't think buying out their contract with CMON to necessarily be construed as financial miss management

and while it's nice to get new stuff for a board game I don't think you 'have' to continually add more stuff to them (and often adding new stuff ends up with the rules breaking down)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


I don't think buying out their contract with CMON to necessarily be construed as financial miss management

It might be if they're still not paid in full on that buy out and are going to use any funds from the KS to do so......

*to be clear, I am not stating that it is miss management nor do I know specific dollar amounts tied to the buy out. Simply stating that if funds from this are required for the buy out it could be a concern.

 cincydooley wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


I don't think buying out their contract with CMON to necessarily be construed as financial miss management

It might be if they're still not paid in full on that buy out and are going to use any funds from the KS to do so......

That's a really serious allegation cincy. As someone who has spoken with both sides, do you feel that's the case? It could be a HUGE deal-breaker for most people and even rumours of that could easily lead to a huge drop in funding. Like possibly 100k drops

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

and while it's nice to get new stuff for a board game I don't think you 'have' to continually add more stuff to them (and often adding new stuff ends up with the rules breaking down)

I dunno... Dungeon-RPG people like new stuff, like variety. If they want to be a game which is played over and over and over by a group, then yes, people want continuous new stuff.

If you want to be a board game in the rotation which gets played once every 6 months, sure! Static is cool.

Games *WANT* to be that game which people can't get enough of. They want to be 'Tuesday is SDE night'. Co-OP, variety and campaign rules go a long way for that. I am not sure they have met that level, hence this may be nothing more than a set of minis for pathfinder, D&D and other systems. I am happy but that is not the goal of soda pop.

nkelsch wrote:

 455_PWR wrote:


So its a hell of a deal! I just hope they don't add too much more as my wallet is getting stretched thin, and Zombicide season 3 is just around the corner!

Not really. Almost 100% of the add-ons are almost the exact same price we will be able to get them from discounters/ebay. Not being exclusive means there is no incentive to buy them now. Money is worth much more in my hands than theirs. All the Heroes are barley a deal and I can pay 39 cents to not buy now (and probably get them cheaper if you are patient)

The core set is a deal, all the stretch goals are diluting that deal (as intended). Every full price hero you buy or 20$ boss is diluting the value of the core set.

So you are getting potentially 135$ worth of Retail for 100$ and the add-ons you are getting 50$ worth of add-ons for 50$...

Sodapop isn't giving us the same value they give retailers. If they can afford to make a product and profit off what they give it to retailers as, then why can't they do that for us and still make profit?

I just have a fundamentally different take on it. This is a chance for me to dedicate 100% of the money I am going to spend on the game DIRECTLY to the people who produce it. They make the products I enjoy, so I'd rather them get the lion's share of the profit, not some warehouse that just buys in bulk and ships to other retailers. It's similar to buying a CD at a concert because I know more of the profit goes to the band instead of to the Label/Distributor/BigBoxStore. I appreciate the chance to do that. It's certainly not costing me anything more than it would otherwise. And I do think that with all the extra bonuses, I will get more for my money than buying MSRP at a local store. In that way, I consider it a win/win for both me and Soda Pop Miniatures. Would it be bigger win for me if they discounted it more? Sure, but I'm not greedy. I think it's worth funding now, although I've been holding off because I do live in Europe and want to see what all will be included (with all of the updates) before I decide to fund. I probably will do it in the last week of the campaign.

At least the newest stretch goal will make buying Goro a little bit more of a deal.

Indeed, more creeps to add to the game as free loot.



About the "debate", it's quite simple; you don't want to pledge for the add-ons 'cause you think it's not interesting? Then just don't do it. That's all.

 Rainyday wrote:
At least the newest stretch goal will make buying Goro a little bit more of a deal.

Yeah, not sure I need 12 of those, but it does make it look like Goro is worth getting if that gets added in.

I doubt it's even much of an "if" the Giri get added. They'll be in.

My big worry is that they get this game out the door in a reasonable amount of time. Like nkelsch said earlier, it'll be quite some time since Von Drakk came out by the time Forgotten King actually reaches us.

I actually hope they open the rules up to the community before the end of the campaign, so we can all give them a spin and offer feedback. Hopefully that will help keep things fresh and relevant with the game, and keep it in the spotlight garnering more attention.

"Interest Free" Loans are helpful!

Or maybe just not posting if you're so against the KS. That works too.

Besides reaching stretch goals, I've noticed a few reasons (risks) to buy add-ons in a KS. I think only the last one really applies to this KS, and it's a matter of convenience more than anything else:

You won't get the add-on anytime soon: The retail model is to release one or two products regularly, rather than all at once. So if you're waiting on twenty add-ons, and they get released once a month, it's going to take awhile for that OLGS shopping cart to fill up.

The add-on might not be released at all: While SDE has a good history of releasing add-ons, not all boardgames will release all planned expansions. You don't notice this at the retail level, because you don't know what expansions were designed before the game was published. However, with KS, a creator may offer an add-on they would like to see in stores, only to find out they retail market does not support it. Alternately, there may be some problem with the add-on itself, such as gameplay issues, or product quality problems (eg. Reaper's Headless Townschildren) that prevents the product from being released.

You might not be able to get the add-ons at your OLGS: If an OLGS doesn't have all the add-ons in stock, you may find yourself paying shipping costs more than once. On top of this, if the OLGS, for whatever reason *never* stocks the add-on, your only option is to buy it at the publisher's website, where you'll pay full MSRP *and* shipping costs.

Welcome to KickStarter!

OLGS?

What's the "O" stand for?

On Line Gaming Store - the L isn't local in this case.

 Sarouan wrote:
Indeed, more creeps to add to the game as free loot.



About the "debate", it's quite simple; you don't want to pledge for the add-ons 'cause you think it's not interesting? Then just don't do it. That's all.

Given their track record with Relic Knights, illustration only stretch goals make me less likely to pledge, not more..

RogueRegault wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
Indeed, more creeps to add to the game as free loot.



About the "debate", it's quite simple; you don't want to pledge for the add-ons 'cause you think it's not interesting? Then just don't do it. That's all.

Given their track record with Relic Knights, illustration only stretch goals make me less likely to pledge, not more..

While I don't disagree, they've shown renders for nearly everything here so it's become much less of a concern to me. Not only that, but they posted new renders of some of the stretch goal heroes when backers did express their concern.

They began showing rule previews. Sure, for now, it's something very basic like what the card attributes mean...but still, we see there are a few differences with the main game. Like potion types, who are divided in three with very specific rules telling when to use them.

Looks quite nice for now, like they are trying to make the rules even clearer than before.

Seems like they also think about what will follow next, like the Crystal Affinity. It will have effect about some abilities targeting the model but will also decide the advancement paths that are available to the model in the future Legends campaign expansion.

Quite interesting. Let's see what will follow.

The new cards look really sharp - and take a lot of confusion out of things too. They did a really good job on them.

The advancement paths thing sounds really neat too. Makes me wonder if they'll just gain attributes and passive effects or if maybe they'll be able to grow into different classes, or "epic" versions of existing classes.

You can't class change without receiving a sprite upgrade though!

Will the same hold true for a tabletop game?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
You can't class change without receiving a sprite upgrade though!

Will the same hold true for a tabletop game?

When you look at old school RPG games, there aren't so many sprite upgrades though - mainly color changes. That's the same with stronger monsters of the same "type"; related names and new colors usually do the trick.

But yeah, it would be a perfect idea to sell more models.

So a REALLY good update for update #10

This is another much requested item—unique treasure and loot art! Once we reach $475k all treasure and loot cards will feature unique art representing the card's equipment. We mean all of it, including the treasure cards from previous expansions and mini-bosses that will be included in the upgrade decks. You'll be swimming in new treasure art just like a certain wealthy duck through treasure!







Names of these little'uns:

Wide-eyed Dragonling is Mr. Chompers
Singing Pig is Madam Hilda
Dour Chicken is The Colonel
Grumpy Goat is Lord Gruff

The amount of renders they're showing here is really really fantastic, and quickly too.

I may have to toss Glimmerwing into my basket by the time this thing is over.

A chicken named "The Colonel" amuses me greatly.