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 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I liked the sword in the head, but I kinda knew something like that was coming when the guy turned his back. So does John Snow become the leader of the black watch or whatever? Seems like they're building up to that.

I didn't expect sersei to give that girl her blessing to marry her other son. I wonder if Balish was pissy that he went to all that trouble to get a present for that kid, and he just threw it down into the pit of despair like it was nothing.

But the whole dragon lady thing.. yawn. Another 5 minutes wasted that could have been spent on other characters I care about. I think my biggest gripe with this show is there are way too many storylines... maybe it works in the books better, but on TV it just feels like a whole bunch of separate stories that are all so different. Following 2 people here, 2 people there, 1 guy here, another guy there...

Same reason I didn't care for the latest season of walking dead as much too, everyone's all separated wandering around.

I am the opposite - I am bored stupid by Fat Sam, Jon Snow and the wall of pointlessness - lets face it the Walkers are apparently too scared of melting to venture south as they are wondering around apparently lost with their zombie army. I hope they ignore Dan's personality descent that GRRM invlificted on her in Dance. Even worse is Bran and co - kill 'em all and move on

Enjoyed most of the last half of recent Walking Dead season as they did some chacarter stuff rather than being stuck in the prison - yawn.

I disagree completely. I love Jon Snow and Bran. Dany is boring and I never liked tyrion. Yeah I said. It I don't like Tyrion.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I liked the sword in the head, but I kinda knew something like that was coming when the guy turned his back. So does John Snow become the leader of the black watch or whatever? Seems like they're building up to that.

I didn't expect sersei to give that girl her blessing to marry her other son. I wonder if Balish was pissy that he went to all that trouble to get a present for that kid, and he just threw it down into the pit of despair like it was nothing.

But the whole dragon lady thing.. yawn. Another 5 minutes wasted that could have been spent on other characters I care about. I think my biggest gripe with this show is there are way too many storylines... maybe it works in the books better, but on TV it just feels like a whole bunch of separate stories that are all so different. Following 2 people here, 2 people there, 1 guy here, another guy there...

Same reason I didn't care for the latest season of walking dead as much too, everyone's all separated wandering around.

I am the opposite - I am bored stupid by Fat Sam, Jon Snow and the wall of pointlessness - lets face it the Walkers are apparently too scared of melting to venture south as they are wondering around apparently lost with their zombie army. I hope they ignore Dan's personality descent that GRRM invlificted on her in Dance. Even worse is Bran and co - kill 'em all and move on

Enjoyed most of the last half of recent Walking Dead season as they did some chacarter stuff rather than being stuck in the prison - yawn.

I disagree completely. I love Jon Snow and Bran. Dany is boring and I never liked tyrion. Yeah I said. It I don't like Tyrion.

Which is all good what do you like about Bran and Jon?

For me:

Dany is someone who has been through it all and still is a strong and confident person, she wants to do the right thing (even though that usually resuts in bad things) and she invokes loyalty by her actions and deeds - and she has Dragons win
Tyrion is a brilliant character - hated and despised by many but still trying to make a life in a dangerous world - enjoy it as kuch as he can and when he can try and do some good things. and he has Bron as a bodgyguard - win

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I liked the sword in the head, but I kinda knew something like that was coming when the guy turned his back. So does John Snow become the leader of the black watch or whatever? Seems like they're building up to that.

I didn't expect sersei to give that girl her blessing to marry her other son. I wonder if Balish was pissy that he went to all that trouble to get a present for that kid, and he just threw it down into the pit of despair like it was nothing.

But the whole dragon lady thing.. yawn. Another 5 minutes wasted that could have been spent on other characters I care about. I think my biggest gripe with this show is there are way too many storylines... maybe it works in the books better, but on TV it just feels like a whole bunch of separate stories that are all so different. Following 2 people here, 2 people there, 1 guy here, another guy there...

Same reason I didn't care for the latest season of walking dead as much too, everyone's all separated wandering around.

I am the opposite - I am bored stupid by Fat Sam, Jon Snow and the wall of pointlessness - lets face it the Walkers are apparently too scared of melting to venture south as they are wondering around apparently lost with their zombie army. I hope they ignore Dan's personality descent that GRRM invlificted on her in Dance. Even worse is Bran and co - kill 'em all and move on

Enjoyed most of the last half of recent Walking Dead season as they did some chacarter stuff rather than being stuck in the prison - yawn.

I disagree completely. I love Jon Snow and Bran. Dany is boring and I never liked tyrion. Yeah I said. It I don't like Tyrion.

Which is all good what do you like about Bran and Jon?

For me:

Dany is someone who has been through it all and still is a strong and confident person, she wants to do the right thing (even though that usually resuts in bad things) and she invokes loyalty by her actions and deeds - and she has Dragons win
Tyrion is a brilliant character - hated and despised by many but still trying to make a life in a dangerous world - enjoy it as kuch as he can and when he can try and do some good things. and he has Bron as a bodgyguard - win

Maybe because I've read the books. But Bran is a kid and has a great destiny.

Jon Snow might be something more than a Stark. Thats all I can say. I like Jon because unlike Robb, he's not an idiot, he takes his honor more seriously. He does smart things and is probably a better swordsmen than Robb. He's also more intelligent and doesn't really trust people as much as Robb.

Jon has this love-ability to him. Jon also has a mysterious past to him and he was hated by his step mother and often called out. He is always called a Bastard. I am surprised he turned out to be this good of a person.

Dany I see turning crazy like the rest of her siblings.

Tyrion I didn't like because he is sometimes too perfect, too smart, too witty. He just seems like a cookie cutter sometimes. He is the character everybody loves, and that is the main reason why I hate him. He is basically a personification of the reader and what the reader would do.

I have also read all the books or rather trudged through the sludge that was the last two :(

and disliked Jon more in them than in the show - in fact the only Starks I actually like are Aria and Sansa - although Catelin was good - the men seems to be idiots who play the honour card to avoid making the hard choices. Although I guess it does not help that the author keeps focussing on him and Bran - whose side quest with the wannabee Elves also has no interest for me. Catelin hated Jon because her "honourable" husband kept him around as a constant reminder of the other woman in his life - nice, but she put up wiht it (as she is supposed to do) and brought him up. A freind of mine also likes Bran and she likes to read his bits but I can's generate any interest in him.

Dany may or may not go crazy - she has cause..................and/or she may save the world or just burn it all.

Tyrion is great - but he suffers as much or more than most of the others - certainly more than Jon

Jon is potentially as central of a character as there is in the story, that's why he gets all the face time. Many threads possibly converge on Jon, as Asherian hinted.

Sorry to be a tease about it, but I think it's important for you to consider there may be more going on with Jon than it first appears, even as I don't want to potentially ruin anything for you since it appears you aren't familiar with what we're referring to.

 gorgon wrote:
Jon is potentially as central of a character as there is in the story, that's why he gets all the face time. Many threads possibly converge on Jon, as Asherian hinted.

Sorry to be a tease about it, but I think it's important for you to consider there may be more going on with Jon than it first appears, even as I don't want to potentially ruin anything for you since it appears you aren't familiar with what we're referring to.

Who knows. Jon snow might be the most interesting character in the entire series. Because he has some many shades to him. We don't know what he will do next.

Think Dany going to marry Jon. Dany going to march the Unsullied right into the teeth of the "Walkers" saving the world.

Why?

She has the only viable intact army left

Lannisters are drained financially and their combat forces are shot to pieces and spread out
North Bannerman are leaderless and factionalized and shot to pieces
Greyjoy are tied by their naval forces and their COC is chopped, sliced, stabbed, captured, and whatever Ramsey does to it.
Stennis is at the end of logistical and financial support. The Iron Banks cannot come into play yet being Stennis gets crushed when the Walkers hit the Wall and does a fighting withdraw all the way south
Jon and his happy band of rapists, robbers, bastards, criminals and rapist goes into "Ranger" mode to harass and interdict the "Walkers" being they have pretty much the main bulk of Dragon Glass.

So Dany gets experience running a kingdom as Queen in Mereen
Hears the Walkers smashed Westero's remaining combat forces
Stennis on the run withdrawing
Jon saving Stennis forces by delaying the Walkers from eating Stennis arse
Iron Bank says to Heck with it and throws financial support behind Dany being Lannisters are broke (Iron Bank is Dorn) and she has Dragons so tying her nicely in for the Throne and she has money
Greyjoy's are Dany naval transport to move her Armies into Westero's
Lannisters ties in with Dany by marrying one of her female friends (guessing) more likely Tyrion kills them all
Jaime goes with Bri and have one squire to take care of
Three dragons work over time making dragon glass

Think I went into wishful thinking mode being GRRM procastinating

 gorgon wrote:
Jon is potentially as central of a character as there is in the story, that's why he gets all the face time. Many threads possibly converge on Jon, as Asherian hinted.

Sorry to be a tease about it, but I think it's important for you to consider there may be more going on with Jon than it first appears, even as I don't want to potentially ruin anything for you since it appears you aren't familiar with what we're referring to.

You could be right - doesn't mean I am going to like him I was very disillusioned by the last two books and where it appeared to be heading.....

 Jihadin wrote:
The one guy killed by Hodor

Spoiler:

The "Ranger" that was killed by Hodor is "Locke" and was sent by Roose Bolton to eliminate Brann and Rickon. So Roose Bolton can claim the "North" as the remaining North Lords rally behind him instead of Bran.

It took me a while to realise that after watching the show.

He was the guy who cut off Jamie Lannister's hand right?

 Asherian Command wrote:


Tyrion I didn't like because he is sometimes too perfect, too smart, too witty. He just seems like a cookie cutter sometimes. He is the character everybody loves, and that is the main reason why I hate him. He is basically a personification of the reader and what the reader would do.

Actually he's more a personification of the author himself. GRRM is on record as saying that the character he identifies with most is Tyrion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Think Dany going to marry Jon. Dany going to march the Unsullied right into the teeth of the "Walkers" saving the world.

Why?

She has the only viable intact army left

Lannisters are drained financially and their combat forces are shot to pieces and spread out
North Bannerman are leaderless and factionalized and shot to pieces
Greyjoy are tied by their naval forces and their COC is chopped, sliced, stabbed, captured, and whatever Ramsey does to it.
Stennis is at the end of logistical and financial support. The Iron Banks cannot come into play yet being Stennis gets crushed when the Walkers hit the Wall and does a fighting withdraw all the way south
Jon and his happy band of rapists, robbers, bastards, criminals and rapist goes into "Ranger" mode to harass and interdict the "Walkers" being they have pretty much the main bulk of Dragon Glass.

So Dany gets experience running a kingdom as Queen in Mereen
Hears the Walkers smashed Westero's remaining combat forces
Stennis on the run withdrawing
Jon saving Stennis forces by delaying the Walkers from eating Stennis arse
Iron Bank says to Heck with it and throws financial support behind Dany being Lannisters are broke (Iron Bank is Dorn) and she has Dragons so tying her nicely in for the Throne and she has money
Greyjoy's are Dany naval transport to move her Armies into Westero's
Lannisters ties in with Dany by marrying one of her female friends (guessing) more likely Tyrion kills them all
Jaime goes with Bri and have one squire to take care of
Three dragons work over time making dragon glass

Think I went into wishful thinking mode being GRRM procastinating

heh. he hehe. heh ahaha hah ha haha haha hahaha ha!!!!!!

 Pacific wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
The one guy killed by Hodor

Spoiler:

The "Ranger" that was killed by Hodor is "Locke" and was sent by Roose Bolton to eliminate Brann and Rickon. So Roose Bolton can claim the "North" as the remaining North Lords rally behind him instead of Bran.

It took me a while to realise that after watching the show.

He was the guy who cut off Jamie Lannister's hand right?

Yes.

And yes, that was not clear at all, I don't think. When he first appeared last episode I had to pause and IMDB.

I thought he looked familiar but didn't pick up on it either

 Ouze wrote:
And yes, that was not clear at all, I don't think. When he first appeared last episode I had to pause and IMDB.

He looked familiar to me, and his name jumped out at me, but I had to go look it up as well. It had been a few episodes since there was any word of that part of the story, so I had completely forgot about it.

I don't like Tyrion, either. He got boring in the last few books. As in, really really boring.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
I don't like Tyrion, either. He got boring in the last few books. As in, really really boring.

Everyone liked Tyrion cause he slapped Joffrey around. Joffrey isn't around to be slapped anymore, so you have to start looking at other aspects of him now. Some like it, some don't.

I'm still a fan of his.

He's still cool in the series. I got bored of him after the events in this season, though.

Don't you guys know anything? Tyrion is totally The Prince That Was Promised.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Catelin hated Jon because her "honourable" husband kept him around as a constant reminder of the other woman in his life

Which was a both stupid and unfair thing to do. I think it is usually called “blaming the victim”.

 Jihadin wrote:
Iron Bank says to Heck with it and throws financial support behind Dany being Lannisters are broke (Iron Bank is Dorn) and she has Dragons so tying her nicely in for the Throne and she has money

Why ? Just why ? If she has money, she does not need to burrow money. If the Walkers have ravaged the land, she has no mean to pay back.
Also, things being in any way setting up nicely would be totally contrary to the tone of the series. So I say do not count on it .

 Jihadin wrote:
Greyjoy's are Dany naval transport to move her Armies into Westero's

Why again ?
Unless the walkers can swim, what do they care for it ? And they do not seem eager to get a new King/Queen of Westeros. They want chaos and the old ways.

 Jihadin wrote:
Lannisters ties in with Dany by marrying one of her female friends (guessing) more likely Tyrion kills them all
Jaime goes with Bri and have one squire to take care of
Three dragons work over time making dragon glass

Now you are being silly!

Ugh Hybrid..kk

Iron Bank is going to finance those who are going to pay them back. Lannister take over of the Throne ended payment there from Beretheon, Robert rule. If you do not not pay the Iron bank back then there be a rash of eligible candidates for the Throne popping up who will make payments to them that are incurred with running the Kingdom. They support Dany then they know their getting paid.

Right now as stand. They have the promise of payment if Stennis takes the Throne

Greyjoy are next in line to feel the cold bite on the butts when the North gets flushed when the Walkers crush the wall, remainder of Stennis Army, Black Watch, and the Wildling that supports Jon in one terrific battle. Then its pretty much done except screaming

Greyjoy has a very sizeable fleet but not a land Army

Only Army left to take on the Walkers will be Grey Worm and his Unsullied. Since Greyjoy has a sizable staging area on his island think '44 Normandy Invasion. Though the Unsullied probably have no idea what snow is.

I'm hoping someone else to do a Turtledove with me

Uh, you two haven't read the books have you?

Theres nothing more entertaining for a ASOIAF book reader than two Unsullied arguing over what will and will not happen...

Waiting on next book but as mention before. GRRM is really slacking

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Uh, you two haven't read the books have you?

Actually, I have not watched the TV series. I do not see what in the books invalidate what I said.

I strongly suspect that Martin may just end the books with "Rock Falls, everyone dies"

Launch of Luclin..yep I agree...it'll kill deader then a cinder block

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I strongly suspect that Martin may just end the books with "Rock Falls, everyone dies"

Do you not mean “White walkers attack, everyone dies” ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I strongly suspect that Martin may just end the books with "Rock Falls, everyone dies"

Do you not mean “White walkers attack, everyone dies” ?

Yes, and the White Walkers will attack by using magic to summon meteors.
Because nothing says "feth you, I'm an eldritch being" like dropping a freaking celestial body on a poor mortal

Dany awakens the reast of the Dragons in the moon and burns anyone who has ever annoyed her (and me) - oh and the silly walkers and the wall gets melted as an afterthought

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Uh, you two haven't read the books have you?

Actually, I have not watched the TV series. I do not see what in the books invalidate what I said.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theres a theory on Reddit that the White Walkers aren't really the bad guys...Rather, the Song of Ice And Fire is a story of two opposing forces, Ice and Fire. Neither side is wholly good, and neither side is wholly evil. GRRM is on record as saying that traditional Tolkien style fantasy tales of good vs evil are too predictable and cliched. In his view, none of his characters are wholly good nor wholly evil. Presumably that goes for the White Walkers too.

The theory goes that, after a cataclysmic war known as The Long Night that devastated Westeros, a truce was brokered that saw Westeros divided into two territories. The far North (the lands known as Beyond The Wall and the Lands of Always Winter) was designated as the White Walkers' territory. And the lands to the South (the North Kingdom and the rest of the Seven Kingdoms) was designated as the territory of the First Men and the Children of the Forest. The Wall was erected as a neutral Demilitarized Zone between the two territories, and the Nights Watch established as a neutral force of peacekeepers. However, over thousands of years the true purpose of the Wall and Nights Watch was forgotten to the point that people believed it was established to defend the Seven Kingdoms against the Wildings of the far North. And now that the forces of Fire (R'hllor's Red Priests, shadow demons and the dragons) are resurgent and are once again a threat to the balance of power of Ice And Fire, the White Walkers have begun to stir.

The followers of R'hllor (Melisandre, Thoros of Myr etc) practice human sacrifice (Melisandre burning people alive), use sorcery to raise people from the dead (Thoros and Beric Dondarrion), and use sorcery to create shadow demons (Melisandre gives birth to a "shadow baby" which assassinates Renly Baratheon). The Dragons can also be considered to on the side of the forces of Fire - hell, they're gigantic (or will soon be gigantic) monsters that kill indiscriminately.

Whereas the White Walkers use sorcery to raise people from the dead (as seemingly mindless wights), and can apparently transform humans (babies at least) into White Walkers.

Neither side strikes me as particularly pleasant or good, which is why (according to the theory) its important to strike a balance of power between the two, lest one side conquer the world. I sure as hell wouldn't want to pick either side.

You see, I figured that 'A Song of Ice and Fire' would play into the sword called, well, Ice.

That, clearly, did not happen.

I think you're right in that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Lord of Light and that no-one is certainly wholly good.

It may be that the Rh'llor worshippers will end up being just as bad as the White Walkers.

My predictions would be:

1) Some form of union between Dany and Jon Snow. Possibly marriage + children. However, I have no idea how they'd get round the whole Dany can not have children thing. - Maybe some lawyerese out of that? IE she'd die in childbirth, therefore not a mother.

2) Tyrion will ride a dragon, using the harness he designed right back at the start of the story.

3) Cersei and friends will be killed by Dany and the Dornians, with a little help from your friendly neighbourhood spider-eunuch.

I have no idea what will happen to Tomman... He might even survive to keep the Lannisters going and just simply give up the throne? It's less horribly murderish than normal for Game of Thrones, however it fits the irony that the actions of the 'one decent king' and, arguably, the 'one decent Lannister' is to be the one to give up the throne.

4) Ultimately, Rickon will be the sole viable heir to the Starks.
I can also see Sansa being in a convent suffering from massive PTSD and spending the rest of her days sewing bedsheets in her future... Or maybe in 'The Winter Chronicles' style, she's the one in the convent, writing the 'Song of Ice and Fire.'