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2014/05/08 00:38:58
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Compel wrote: I think you're right in that Ice = Walkers, Fire = Lord of Light and that no-one is certainly wholly good.
1) Some form of union between Dany and Jon Snow. Possibly marriage + children. However, I have no idea how they'd get round the whole Dany can not have children thing. - Maybe some lawyerese out of that? IE she'd die in childbirth, therefore not a mother.
Tinfoil time (book spoilers)
Spoiler:
you are assuming that Ice = Walkers and Fire = R'Hillor - there is one tinfoil theory that suggests that Jon himself IS the song of ice and fire, mainly that he is not Ned starks son, but rather Ned's nephew, being born from Ned's brother (whose name escapes me) and some Targaryan bird (whose name also escapes me) - this also makes Jon another dragon rider, making 2, and keeps Ned Starks honour intact which is pretty logical. When a third dragon rider appears, who has not been seen in the shows yet, there is your holy trinity. The way the books end is really, really ambiguous, but quite open ended with where Jon is going to go
Man, I never thought I would powernerd so hard on a forum where we paint little plastic army men
Read the tower of joy.
Spoiler:
READ THE TOWER OF JOY. (Entire thing is disproved. You mean his sister
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/05/08 00:43:01
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
I doubt shes going to live that long. She's being put on trial for various alleged crimes (treason, incest, indecency, offending the gods, you name it shes probably done it) and will opt for a Trial by Combat. And she has Qyburn experimenting and using sorcery to create an "unbeatable champion" (i.e. an undead Gregor Clegane). The representative of the Seven (w.e. the religion is called) will be Sandor Clegane, now a reformed monk. Sandor will probably slay his undead brother for good, winning the Trial by Combat.
Seriously ? What I like about GoT is precisely that there is no plot armor. That would mean a fuckton of plot armor, and a rather idiotic one imho.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
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2014/05/08 00:54:38
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
The Song of Ice and Fire, an interpretation by d-usa:
Fire is obviously House Targ. The dragons symbolize fire, the mad king loved fire, everything about the house is fire. The Targs should still be the rightful kings of Westeros, their throne was taken by force and we can all see how fethed up the kingdom has become while non-Targs rule.
On top of that we have Dany, she was burned alive but didn't burn. She was surrounded by fire, and walked away unharmed. Dany is Fire.
Ice: House Stark. Not just the whole John Snow thing, all of them. Sansa is very important (although dumb so far), Arya is training to be a master assassin and will be a pivotal part of the story (and maybe the future Master of Spies), Bran is becoming a part of the Children of the Forest, Coldhands, who knows what with baby Stark.
John has been left for dead in he snow at the wall. A wall made of ice as well. Just as Dany was reborn in the fire, John could be reborn in the ice.
2014/05/08 00:56:37
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
I doubt shes going to live that long. She's being put on trial for various alleged crimes (treason, incest, indecency, offending the gods, you name it shes probably done it) and will opt for a Trial by Combat. And she has Qyburn experimenting and using sorcery to create an "unbeatable champion" (i.e. an undead Gregor Clegane). The representative of the Seven (w.e. the religion is called) will be Sandor Clegane, now a reformed monk. Sandor will probably slay his undead brother for good, winning the Trial by Combat.
Seriously ? What I like about GoT is precisely that there is no plot armor. That would mean a fuckton of plot armor, and a rather idiotic one imho.
Spoiler:
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Cersei is going to opt for a Trial by Champion, her Champion will lose and she will be executed (or strangled to death by Jaime but thats a whole n'other tangent).
How on earth did you interpret "Cersei is going to die sooner rather than later" as "a fuckton of plot armour"?
2014/05/08 01:23:09
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Fire is obviously House Targ. The dragons symbolize fire, the mad king loved fire, everything about the house is fire. The Targs should still be the rightful kings of Westeros, their throne was taken by force and we can all see how fethed up the kingdom has become while non-Targs rule.
Sure, because the Targaryens did so much better when they were ruling the Seven Kingdoms.
Aerys went mad, horrifically executed the Lords of a powerful house when imprisonment or exile to The Wall would have been wiser, and demanded the heads of more Lords of powerful Houses. Then he plotted to burn an entire city to the ground so he could arise from the ashes and be reborn as a Dragon.
Rhaegar turned a blind eye to his fathers insanity, and delayed taking action by deposing his father as he thought that fulfilling a prophecy that he'd been obsessed with since he was a child was more important. And whats more, he kidapped/eloped off with the Lady of a powerful House in order to fulfill said prophecy.
All of the above pissed off half the Seven Kingdoms (The North, the Vale and the Stormlands plus the Riverlands) to the point that they rebelled and overthrew the Targaryens.
Besides, there are no truly rightful Kings of Westeros. As Ser Jorah Mormont said, Aegon the Conqueror did not take the Seven Kingdoms because it was his right, he took them because he had the power to do so (Dragons).
Robert Baratheon did not take the Iron Throne because it was his right, he took it because he had the power to do so.
Daenerys will not take the Iron Throne because it is her right, she will take it because she has the power to do so (Dragons).
On top of that we have Dany, she was burned alive but didn't burn. She was surrounded by fire, and walked away unharmed. Dany is Fire.
Ice: House Stark. Not just the whole John Snow thing, all of them. Sansa is very important (although dumb so far),
Not dumb, naive. Shes learning fast and is growing out of her naivety.
Arya is training to be a master assassin and will be a pivotal part of the story (and maybe the future Master of Spies),
That would be awesome. But only after personally crossing some names off her list.
Bran is becoming a part of the Children of the Forest, Coldhands, who knows what with baby Stark.
Brans going to lay down roots. Quite literally.
John has been left for dead in he snow at the wall. A wall made of ice as well. Just as Dany was reborn in the fire, John could be reborn in the ice.
Theoretically, Jon is ice AND Fire.
2014/05/08 01:54:16
Subject: Re:Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
He was literally smuggled over to Mereen. He's a Dorn Prince with Taygarian blood. Drogor smoked his tan white arse when he tried to take control of him with a whip like Dany did at the Arena. Dorn did a Super Secret Alliance with Taygarian to marry offsprings.
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2014/05/08 03:01:24
Subject: Re:Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
First Targaryan = Daenerys.
Second Targaryan = Aegon Targaryen (Son of Rhaegar) if he is really Aegon and not an imposter.
Third Targaryan = Jon Snow if he turns out to be the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.
Still, there are other Valyrians in the Golden Company, some of whom could probably be suitable husbands for Daenerys.
With two more books to go, there is probably a lot of room for Martin to introduce a number of characters we've never heard of that wind up playing major parts in the story yet to come.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 03:02:06
2014/05/08 03:05:02
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Ok, Im findint some of this hard to follow. if someone can clear this up for me.
1: Why is Bran beyond the wall, and who are the people is he travelling with?
2: What is with jon snow? Who is he fighting in this episode.
3: the Segments with the little girl teaching the guy how to read. What is the significance with that? They are working for Stannis to retake the throne?
4: Brienne is looking for Sansa Right?
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/05/08 03:38:41
Subject: Re:Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, Im findint some of this hard to follow. if someone can clear this up for me.
1: Why is Bran beyond the wall, and who are the people is he travelling with?
2: What is with jon snow? Who is he fighting in this episode.
3: the Segments with the little girl teaching the guy how to read. What is the significance with that? They are working for Stannis to retake the throne?
4: Brienne is looking for Sansa Right?
1. He is becoming a green seer. They said that earlier in the early seasons.
2. He is killing the mutineers because they might tell the wildings that castle black is undermanned.
3. He is the kings hand of stannis. They were referencing stories and such and building atmosphere. Stannis is a very important part of the game of thrones.
4.Correct she is.
I doubt shes going to live that long. She's being put on trial for various alleged crimes (treason, incest, indecency, offending the gods, you name it shes probably done it) and will opt for a Trial by Combat. And she has Qyburn experimenting and using sorcery to create an "unbeatable champion" (i.e. an undead Gregor Clegane). The representative of the Seven (w.e. the religion is called) will be Sandor Clegane, now a reformed monk. Sandor will probably slay his undead brother for good, winning the Trial by Combat.
Seriously ? What I like about GoT is precisely that there is no plot armor. That would mean a fuckton of plot armor, and a rather idiotic one imho.
Spoiler:
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Cersei is going to opt for a Trial by Champion, her Champion will lose and she will be executed (or strangled to death by Jaime but thats a whole n'other tangent).
How on earth did you interpret "Cersei is going to die sooner rather than later" as "a fuckton of plot armour"?
Well Arya still has her part to play. The red lady prophesized that she (Arya) will silence green eyes forever. Green eyes = Cersi. Arya will kill Cersi. The Woman who destroyed her family.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 03:41:21
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/05/08 03:42:36
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
And Stannis Is the rightful Heir to the throne right?
And what about the Iron Islands and the guy guy who loves toruturing played by the fella from "The Misfits"
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2014/05/08 03:55:52
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
hotsauceman1 wrote: And Stannis Is the rightful Heir to the throne right?
And what about the Iron Islands and the guy guy who loves toruturing played by the fella from "The Misfits"
Yes stannis is the rightful heir to the throne.
We don't know. They are just killing iron born apparently.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/05/08 05:05:47
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
hotsauceman1 wrote: And Stannis Is the rightful Heir to the throne right?
And what about the Iron Islands and the guy guy who loves toruturing played by the fella from "The Misfits"
Yes stannis is the rightful heir to the throne.
Only if you discount the Dany. Stannis has the most direct claim to the usurpers lineages time on the throne.
2014/05/08 05:31:36
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Sasori wrote: Anyone think that perhaps Jon Snows mother was a Targaryan?
Spoiler:
The common theory is Lyanna Stark (Neds sister who was "abducted" by Rhaegar, kicking off the original rebellion) actually eloped with Rhaegar, and Jon was their child. Her last words to Ned when he found her dying were 'Promise me, Ned'. People have linked this to Jon is a Targaryan descendant of Rhaegar, so with a pretty powerful claim. Ned kept quiet about the affair because Robert was hell bent on murdering any Targaryan he could find, and claimed him to be his bastard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 06:03:51
2014/05/08 06:53:56
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
How on earth did you interpret "Cersei is going to die sooner rather than later" as "a fuckton of plot armour"?
Spoiler:
How many plot hook are still connected to her? Because the Sandor versus Gregor was a very very obvious plot hook. And that Clegane hate plot hook not being actually exploited at all in the end is working very well to give the story a lot of “realism”, where you cannot predict what will happen just by being genre-savvy. It would be plot armor because then characters would actually die only when it is convenient to the plot, not before, and you will know that those who do will somehow come back.
Same thing for you looking for three Targaryen to mount the dragons. That would be too predictable, convenient and “unrealistic” for the series imo. Obvious plot hook just here to deceive you.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
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2014/05/08 13:13:03
Subject: Re:Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
First Targaryan = Daenerys.
Second Targaryan = Aegon Targaryen (Son of Rhaegar) if he is really Aegon and not an imposter.
Third Targaryan = Jon Snow if he turns out to be the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.
Still, there are other Valyrians in the Golden Company, some of whom could probably be suitable husbands for Daenerys.
With two more books to go, there is probably a lot of room for Martin to introduce a number of characters we've never heard of that wind up playing major parts in the story yet to come.
Please fix your Avatar!!!!!
otherwise yeah - lets waste time and effort with dull chacarters that contradict the main plot and spin it out longer, whilst ruining the character development of others :(
on Jon Snow
Spoiler:
if he is a Targ - then Ned was an even bigger idiot than I thought- not telling his wife the truth. If he is then its yet another - Jon Snow is the bestest most awesome "vomit"
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, not too keen on the idea that Jon is a long lost Targ. Sounds too typical fantasy story hero nonsense to me.
If he were the main character then I would agree. The redeeming aspect of that possible plot thread is that Martin hasn't been hammering it over and over like some form of manifest destiny the way other writers do.
Plot armor. So far only Dani seems to be wearing any.
Resurrection. Why is everyone brought back to life in these books basically a zombie? Battery powered zombies, at that.
My avatar. What's wrong with it? Who else can stand up to the white walkers if not the Shermanator?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/08 13:59:43
2014/05/08 14:03:40
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Why shouldn't they? They were raised from the dead after all. I find it somewhat amusing that the Red Priests, who claim themselves to be holy champions of justice, goodness and life, practice necromancy I mean, I guess raising the dead is practicing life magic. It's just a funny little diversion from the typical portrayal of necromancy in fantasy, how it's "death magic"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 14:15:56
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2014/05/08 14:04:01
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
Tyrion? Where are you getting Tyrion from? Especially since we already have two confirmed Targ's, and one strongly suspected.
Wasn't there a rumor at some point or something that Tyrion might have been the last Mad Kings Bastard? The one that Jaime killed. I could have sworn I rad that somewhere (not in the books).
Either way I vote Tyrion, Jon, and Dany for dragon riders. Just because after all the crap all of them have gone through they deserve to be boss..and maybe happy.
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2014/05/08 14:15:27
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
A LOT of gak lines up if the R+L=J theory is correct.
-Explains all the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy (were protecting Lyanna AND his heir)
-Explains Ned's mysterious promise to Lyanna (raise Jon and keep his parentage secret)
-Explains why Ned took a dump on his precious honor (he didn't)
-Gives added meaning to how Jon looks like Arya, who resembles Lyanna
-Fits in with the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree (who was Lyanna herself?)
-Explains why the Reeds seem to know more than they're letting on (their father was with Ned at the Tower of Joy)
-Fits the Azor Ahai prophecy
-Fits the three dragons prophecy/thing
-Adds poignancy to the chats between Jon and Maester Aemon (they're family)
-Etc.
IMO, it's very clear that *something* went down at the Tower of Joy. R+L=J is easily the best theory out there to explain it, IMO.
Edit: Jon doesn't have white hair. But his direwolf DOES...the only one in the litter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/08 14:23:52
A LOT of gak lines up if the R+L=J theory is correct.
-Explains all the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy (were protecting Lyanna AND his heir)
-Explains Ned's mysterious promise to Lyanna (raise Jon and keep his parentage secret)
-Explains why Ned took a dump on his precious honor (he didn't)
-Gives added meaning to how Jon looks like Arya, who resembles Lyanna
-Fits in with the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree (who was Lyanna herself?)
-Explains why the Reeds seem to know more than they're letting on (their father was with Ned at the Tower of Joy)
-Fits the Azor Ahai prophecy
-Fits the three dragons prophecy/thing
-Adds poignancy to the chats between Jon and Maester Aemon (they're family)
-Etc.
IMO, it's very clear that *something* went down at the Tower of Joy. R+L=J is easily the best theory out there to explain it, IMO.
Edit: Jon doesn't have white hair. But his direwolf DOES...the only one in the litter.
Basically
There is very little denying it.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/05/08 14:52:13
Subject: Game of Thrones Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, not too keen on the idea that Jon is a long lost Targ. Sounds too typical fantasy story hero nonsense to me.
If he were the main character then I would agree. The redeeming aspect of that possible plot thread is that Martin hasn't been hammering it over and over like some form of manifest destiny the way other writers do.
Plot armor. So far only Dani seems to be wearing any.
Resurrection. Why is everyone brought back to life in these books basically a zombie? Battery powered zombies, at that.
My avatar. What's wrong with it? Who else can stand up to the white walkers if not the Shermanator?
Your Avatars fine now - its was much larger before - unless it was some weird glitch only on my computers?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
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