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I've come to believe that the Lannister cousin who smashed beetles is George Martin in Westeros. His mind wanders through the multiverse crafting stories, making him appear deceptively simple. However there is one constant of Martin's mind through out the multiverse. In every story he crafts, be it on pen and paper or with a line of beetles... So many have to die...

I'm not sure that story went nowhere. I felt like it was a window into the way Tyrion thought. He lamented the death of countless beetles. How much would he lament the death of countless humans to no seeming purpose?

Also, if the simpleton never left the garden how did he die by getting kicked in the chest by a horse? I felt the scene also implied Tyrion to be capable of ending his own family members, even at a young age.

As for the wall bit I was more discussing the timing. Jon is pretty much in charge of the wall prior to the Rangers getting back and he's already fought off the Wildling attach on Castle Black with mere boys and stewards. It's a testament to his leadership abilities. He didn't have to spend nearly anytime (if any if I remember right) with Thorne in charge. That part has been annoying as well.

Poor Tyrion, can anything safe him from his fate of near certain death?

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure that story went nowhere. I felt like it was a window into the way Tyrion thought. He lamented the death of countless beetles. How much would he lament the death of countless humans to no seeming purpose?

Also, if the simpleton never left the garden how did he die by getting kicked in the chest by a horse? I felt the scene also implied Tyrion to be capable of ending his own family members, even at a young age.

As for the wall bit I was more discussing the timing. Jon is pretty much in charge of the wall prior to the Rangers getting back and he's already fought off the Wildling attach on Castle Black with mere boys and stewards. It's a testament to his leadership abilities. He didn't have to spend nearly anytime (if any if I remember right) with Thorne in charge. That part has been annoying as well.

I want Jon to become the man we know him from the books.

I think they're trying to do that. I just think that , in an extremely rare case, the way it was handled in the book was much better. Because we haven't really introduced the group that makes what is going to happen with Jon possible. Which is another reason that not making those locations relevant (you don't need to shoot there, just mention them) and the leaders from those locations relevant you kinda muck up the Jon's story line.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure that story went nowhere. I felt like it was a window into the way Tyrion thought. He lamented the death of countless beetles. How much would he lament the death of countless humans to no seeming purpose?

Also, if the simpleton never left the garden how did he die by getting kicked in the chest by a horse? I felt the scene also implied Tyrion to be capable of ending his own family members, even at a young age.

As for the wall bit I was more discussing the timing. Jon is pretty much in charge of the wall prior to the Rangers getting back and he's already fought off the Wildling attach on Castle Black with mere boys and stewards. It's a testament to his leadership abilities. He didn't have to spend nearly anytime (if any if I remember right) with Thorne in charge. That part has been annoying as well.

I want Jon to become the man we know him from the books.

Which bits need changing?

 gorgon wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Although as far as the duel goes, Oberyn is completely responsible for his own death. He had the Mountain dead to rights, and threw it all away because his hate and rage over his sister's murder got the better of him.

Also, if they kill off Tyrion now, I'm just going to stop watching it.

See, I think that perspective is very Tyrion-centric. Consider it from Oberyn's point of view. He wasn't looking to die, but his reason for fighting was to force the confession and make his point in front of everyone.

Simply killing the Mountain wasn't the point...or at least not the only point, since he took some precautions. You can say Oberyn got sloppy, but it wasn't as if his rage overcame him at the end...his rage got him into that fight in the first place and right up to the end he was doing exactly what he planned to do.

Tyrion's problem was with having a champion who had more complicated goals than simply winning.

I fully understand that that's why he went into the duel and that he was doing exactly what he planned. However, the way it came across to me is that he went into the duel fairly cool and levelheaded, but as the fight went on, he got more and more agitated and wrathful as he kept telling (and eventually yelling at) the Mountain to confess, up to the point where he dropped his guard and came in too close. If he'd kept his rage on a tighter leash, he would not have come in so close and kept torturing the Mountain with his spear from a safe distance until he got what went into the fight for.

Of course, that would not be entirely in character for a man whose entire presence on the screen has been showing a barely contained volcano of energy and fire and hate about to burst. Very well acted. Kudos to the actor for that.

Tyrion didn't really have a choice though, did he? I mean, I suppose he could have gone for the David vs Goliath approach with a slingshot himself, but that's about it.

Edit: Maybe dragons poop rocks?

 ashikenshin wrote:

Still, I kinda feel bad for the people who only watch the show since they took that blow harder than I did in the books.

That is precisely why I am watching the show and not reading the books yet. I like to be shocked, and this series (several times now) has done that admirably well .. although, feth me, that was pretty bad!

 d-usa wrote:
Non-book readers watching GoT:



Me watching non-book readers watch GoT:

Haha I think that's it exactly!

 d-usa wrote:
Poor Tyrion, can anything safe him from his fate of near certain death?

Spoiler:

Great catch.

The show does a great job filling it with scenes that just look like throwaway filler but actually have meaning if you know what is coming.

You could still guess however.. lot's of meaningful glances, and time spent with script between those two characters showing their relationship.

And also, the show doesn't usually do two 'shockers' in a row - (I'm guessing/somewhat hoping! )

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
HOWEVER one change that I'm annoyed at with the latest episode is the whole Tyrion-Jaime beetle conversation. That was bloody awful, completely made up and went nowhere...as it progressed it gave the impression that Tyrion was about to come to some profound conclusion or epiphany...then it just petered out.

They should have replaced it with an Oberyn-Tywin scene instead. In the book, prior to the Trial by Combat, Oberyn met with Tywin in The Hand's quarters for a meal and discussed various things. That would have been a good scene, to hint at the tension and mistrust between the two, and to foreshadow Oberyn's public accusation of Tywin during the Trial by Combat.

Spoiler:

Its implied (or rather, speculated by fans) that Oberyn poisoned Tywin, thereby making his revenge complete.

He poisoned Tywin prior to the Trial, and poisoned The Mountain using a poisoned spear during the duel.

While I agree the Oberyn/Tywin scene would have been good, the Beetle story was about the search for meaning in meaninglessness. Tyrion (and Maesters and science) are always looking for meaning in the world when the truth is that life is short, brutish and cruel and you are apt to be crushed by some giant at any moment. It, along with the story that Oberyn told Tyrion the week before, was a way of further elaborating on the situation Tyrion is in and has been in his whole life. In a world with meaning and justice, he would be king, but there is no meaning or justice, just a big ol' moron squishing beetles.

That was the impression I got from it too.

And, again a testament to the quality of acting in this show that those two were talking about such a subject, and managed to make it so riveting.

I swear you guys are trying to get the thread shut down before we get any more rumors.

 Pacific wrote:
You could still guess however.. lot's of meaningful glances, and time spent with script between those two characters showing their relationship.

And also, the show doesn't usually do two 'shockers' in a row (I'm guessing/somewhat hoping! )

I'm really looking forward to the forthcoming privy incident, and I hope they keep it close to the books.

SPOILER

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure that story went nowhere. I felt like it was a window into the way Tyrion thought. He lamented the death of countless beetles. How much would he lament the death of countless humans to no seeming purpose?

Also, if the simpleton never left the garden how did he die by getting kicked in the chest by a horse? I felt the scene also implied Tyrion to be capable of ending his own family members, even at a young age.

As for the wall bit I was more discussing the timing. Jon is pretty much in charge of the wall prior to the Rangers getting back and he's already fought off the Wildling attach on Castle Black with mere boys and stewards. It's a testament to his leadership abilities. He didn't have to spend nearly anytime (if any if I remember right) with Thorne in charge. That part has been annoying as well.

I like a number of the takes here on the beetle story.

They've stalled on the events at the Wall so much that I think almost all of it will have to be in season 5. Or at least I hope that's what happens, because they'd have to oversimplify to get it all in this season, and I really don't want to see that.

Overall I like a lot of the writers' choices. But if I have to be critical, it sometimes seems as though the name of the show says a lot about their approach. They're more focused on the 'game of thrones' over the 'song of fire and ice,' if that makes sense. I mean, I grant that GRRM stalls a ton on the bigger picture stuff also. But I find that I really miss book elements that should have taken place this season, like which provide depth and create deeper mysteries.

Sure, they gave us that one scene with the Others and the baby which was like a bolt of lightning to TV AND book fans. But otherwise the focus is subtly more on the courtly machinations and (some inflated and some created) romances than the books. I understand that's what gets the ratings and that's what the books mostly cover also. But if I had to be critical I'd say that they've downplayed the magical and mysterious elements perhaps a smidge too much.

I guess that as long as Bran is out wandering with the Reeds, some of those spoiler items could still come to pass...again, especially if they're punting some Storm of Swords material into season 5 to pad it out.

 Pacific wrote:
You could still guess however.. lot's of meaningful glances, and time spent with script between those two characters showing their relationship.

And also, the show doesn't usually do two 'shockers' in a row - (I'm guessing/somewhat hoping! )

It would be a quick follow-up to the "how people can die" speech from Littlefinger.

I'm guessing next episode will be wall-focused, and the last episode will have the follow-up to the trial.

Still hoping for



to be the final scene of the season.

(There is also the Instagram picture that has been posted before that might point that way:



I'm thinking Coldhands might show up during these last two episodes as well (if they are going to include him...)

 Pacific wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:

Still, I kinda feel bad for the people who only watch the show since they took that blow harder than I did in the books.

That is precisely why I am watching the show and not reading the books yet. I like to be shocked, and this series (several times now) has done that admirably well .. although, feth me, that was pretty bad!

I highly recommend reading the books that cover the seasons you've already watched.

I've found them to be shifting and shucking stuff from book 5 back to this season (book 3). I feel we're getting a re-write basically of Books 4 & 5 to make them make sense in the timeline and work with TV. We already knew to an extent that 4&5 would be more intermingled due to the way they were written but it's interesting to see basically Book 5 with Dany, be barely into book 3 with Jon, and smack in the middle of book 4 with Sansa.

@zombiekila707: Welcome to the internet! Also, congratulations on living to 16. Enjoy your warning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I've found them to be shifting and shucking stuff from book 5 back to this season (book 3). I feel we're getting a re-write basically of Books 4 & 5 to make them make sense in the timeline and work with TV. We already knew to an extent that 4&5 would be more intermingled due to the way they were written but it's interesting to see basically Book 5 with Dany, be barely into book 3 with Jon, and smack in the middle of book 4 with Sansa.

Yep. They should do a re-release of the books with a 'sensible' order. He's said before that they were pretty much simultaneous, so it doesn't take a lot of work.

Enough. Post with spoiler tags, don't pointlessly antagonize other users. Rule #1 and stuff.

The last episode is named "The Children", I'm fairly sure that means that Bran will be reaching a very important milestone.

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
The last episode is named "The Children", I'm fairly sure that means that Bran will be reaching a very important milestone.

Spoiler:

Though as the books go that milestone is totally unreachable without the help of Coldhands, a character who is totally absent so far. My theory is that this sunday's episode will be very north related, featuring a lot of Jon and Bran and introducing Coldhands at long last.

Then you have the last episode, "The Children" could refer to either the rounding off of the Stark children's stories from this series or the more obvious Children of the Forest. The Hound will finally kick the bucket and so Arya will be off to Braavos. Stannis will arrive to support Jon up at the wall. Brann will finally meet the children of the forest and the three eyed raven.

You forgot Tywin and his three children.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
The last episode is named "The Children", I'm fairly sure that means that Bran will be reaching a very important milestone.

Spoiler:

Though as the books go that milestone is totally unreachable without the help of Coldhands, a character who is totally absent so far. My theory is that this sunday's episode will be very north related, featuring a lot of Jon and Bran and introducing Coldhands at long last.

Then you have the last episode, "The Children" could refer to either the rounding off of the Stark children's stories from this series or the more obvious Children of the Forest. The Hound will finally kick the bucket and so Arya will be off to Braavos. Stannis will arrive to support Jon up at the wall. Brann will finally meet the children of the forest and the three eyed raven.

You forgot Tywin and his three children.

There are a couple of ways they could go with "The Children".

 pretre wrote:


Aaaaanyways. I thought the Children thing was obvious. I think applying it to Tywin is stretching a bit.

I disagree.



The Lannister children will be involved in some way, I think.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The Lannister children will be involved in some way, I think.

And so will the stark children. I just don't think that's the reason for the episode name.

 pretre wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The Lannister children will be involved in some way, I think.

And so will the stark children. I just don't think that's the reason for the episode name.

Well the main, most overt reason for the title is clearly that the Children of the Forest will be introduced.

But that doesn't mean that it can't be interpreted as referring to other themes too.

Best have Tyrion crotch shot on dear old dad happen

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 pretre wrote:


Aaaaanyways. I thought the Children thing was obvious. I think applying it to Tywin is stretching a bit.

I disagree.

Spoiler:

-Jaime defies his father by freeing Tyrion.

-Tyrion kills Tywin. This is the culmination of their difficult relationship. Tywin has always treated Tyrion with contempt, and Tyrion has suffered years of abuse and neglect until finally he kills his father.

-Cersei deals with the fallout of her father's death and funeral (though this will probably be early Season 5).

The Lannister children will be involved in some way, I think.

Well I agree with that.

Hopefully it will focus on....

Also this will the longest episode of the entire series.

So These will contain alot of spoilers AVOID MY POST PEOPLE!