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That army looked freaking huge. That first contingent of cavalry that charged into the forest attacking the front lines of the Wildling host looked very impressive, several thousand men at least, and it had me - a book reader - gobsmacked.

And then another huge contingent of cavalry charged into the rear of the Wildling lines.



Its true that the show is changing a lot of details, the biggest ones perhaps being Brienne meeting the Hound (though both Brienne and the Hound got fethed up and nearly killed in separate fights in the books, so I suppose merging the two near death experiences made sense, and the result was the same regardless. Brienne is beat up, Sandor "dies" and Arya escapes to Braavos); Jojen being killed by Wights, though he is rumoured to have died "off-sreen" in the books anyway, so having it take place early is passable. The magical hand grenades were a little silly though.

And above all the biggest change was Varys apparently leaving Kings Landing with Tyrion.





I've given up on being angry with the changes in the show, and just accepted that its a different entity altogether. Like Peter Jackons take on the LOTR, this is very much D&D's interpretation and so we just have to accept that its not going to be particularly faithful.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
St Jon the Blessed

Do you mean the

Spoiler:

dead guy who is dead of death and not living anymore because he was killed

?

I hope that is the case but doubt it...................I still think he has too powerful plot shields.............

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
That army looked freaking huge. That first contingent of cavalry that charged into the forest attacking the front lines of the Wildling host looked very impressive, several thousand men at least, and it had me - a book reader - gobsmacked.

And then another huge contingent of cavalry charged into the rear of the Wildling lines.



Its true that the show is changing a lot of details, the biggest ones perhaps being Brienne meeting the Hound (though both Brienne and the Hound got fethed up and nearly killed in separate fights in the books, so I suppose merging the two near death experiences made sense, and the result was the same regardless. Brienne is beat up, Sandor "dies" and Arya escapes to Braavos); Jojen being killed by Wights, though he is rumoured to have died "off-sreen" in the books anyway, so having it take place early is passable. The magical hand grenades were a little silly though.

And above all the biggest change was Varys apparently leaving Kings Landing with Tyrion.

Spoiler:

I think they'll probably go to Pentos and meet with Illyrio Mopatis, Varys' co-conspirator. Tyrion will be sent to Daenerys at Meereen, whereas Varys will meet with Aegon and Jon Connington and go to Storms End. They'll probably cut Tyrion's travels with Aegon & Jon, or they will travel together for a short while before splitting up and going their seperate ways as in the book.

I've given up on being angry with the changes in the show, and just accepted that its a different entity altogether. Like Peter Jackons take on the LOTR, this is very much D&D's interpretation and so we just have to accept that its not going to be particularly faithful.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

Yes, but it was at least implied that Varys had remained in the Red Keep, lurking in the secret passageways until he killed Kevan and Pycelle.

But this works too. Maybe we'll see Varys meet with Illyrio Mopatis and we'll learn more about their schemes, maybe even learn about "Aegon" and their plan to invade Westeros and install Aegon on the Iron Throne.

I hope so.

 Asherian Command wrote:
here's my favorite scene.

Anyone notice that jamie killed those two guards rather quietly?

It was good, but it didn't feel right to me that he goes so quickly from "feeling the love, bro" to "let's go murder some people" without the confession from Jaime about Tysha.

It's not a matter of it being different from the books, it's that his actions afterward don't feel appropriate for Tyrion IMO without something to make him go nuclear. *shrug*

I'm not sure Tyrion had murder in his heart when he went to see his father. Not until he saw Shae. I think it works better as, while we the readers are deeper in Tyrion, the audience isn't hugely likely to remember a short story told to his whore 2 years ago. This makes it much more visibly personal for those who haven't read the books.

I liked the Hound and Brienne meeting. Much, much better handled than the book. Also the extra travels with the Hound give a much better reason than the books for Arya's view of the world.

Bran has to be important to the overall story somehow or they would have cut his character. As it is it's a pretty boring story arc (better in the books initially but about here now) and the wight scene took my wife completely out of the show. I tend to agree that it felt hoaky and a little silly. Especially after last episode and Stannis's arrival.

Dany is starting to slip, I hope they keep her character strong and don't go the book route with her.

Overall I'm happy with the direction the show is taking. The changes to the first 3 books in the series were relatively minor because they were actually good books. The changes to the next two are going to be fairly extreme because they aren't good books and to translate the story are going to need to be redone extensively.

Judging by the first 4 seasons I'm thinking the show will continue to be excellent. In fact, I'm excited to finally be to the point where I might not know what's actually going to happen finally. Plus I read the last two books each only once due to my blossoming hatred of Martin the god awful pacing of those two novels. So I really don't remember a ton about the specifics in those either

 Mr Morden wrote:
I hope that is the case but doubt it...................I still think he has too powerful plot shields.............

Come on!

so

 easysauce wrote:
so

Spoiler:

the hound isnt *dead* dead right? I am under the impression I will get to see him do his thing later on. Same with the mountain, too cool to die right?!?! RIGHT!??!?!

good way to end the season, lots of stuff going on. I am really looking forward to arya's ninja training.

as for dany... honestly... why are people pissed that she is getting a reality check? her character wasnt/isnt/hasnt been strong... her character has been naive, and extremely lucky what with stumbling upon armies and dragons to do her bidding.

1.

2. I know a lot of people hate where Dany's story is heading, and yes I agree that in the books Martin is really dragging it out on beating that dead horse. Her main problem is that she has no steady, guiding hand now that Jorah is gone.
Selmy is far too fatherly with her and tries too much to protect her from the truth, while also having no abilities to deal with the politics of ruling. (something Jorah, as a one-time Lord of Bear Island was raised & taught to be)
And while the show hasn't really touched on the Masters and their scheming and politicking, in the books poor Dany is utterly out of her depth trying to deal with all of those donkey-caves.
And finally, the fact that she's turning from her "children" instead of continuing to grow alongside them.

Without Jorah she's simply reverting back to that weak little 14 year-old girl we first met at the very beginning.
And when we remember that the character is actually meant to be only about 16 or so by this point, it's not really beyond the scope of reality that she would get this fethed up and start screwing up everything she's gained!

Yeah, that whole “We wills sell you every soldier we have and this will leave us absolutely no defense against you but that seems like an awesome idea” thing was… kind of ridiculous. If even I could smell that coming from so far away, how could those merchants not have thought about it? How could they had survived so long if they are so stupid?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
1.

Spoiler:

No, Sandor's not dead by a long shot, he's only a figurative "death" as the remorseless b****** he was is 'dead' for all intents and purposes. Sandor will be back!

We do not know that. It does not even seem likely to me.

yeah hybrid....

I mean, thats the oldest trick in the book....

"give me all your weapons"

"derp, OKAYYYY!!!"

"soooo, i notice I am the only one with weapons now..."

"derp *dies*"

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure Tyrion had murder in his heart when he went to see his father. Not until he saw Shae. I think it works better as, while we the readers are deeper in Tyrion, the audience isn't hugely likely to remember a short story told to his whore 2 years ago. This makes it much more visibly personal for those who haven't read the books.

I liked the Hound and Brienne meeting. Much, much better handled than the book. Also the extra travels with the Hound give a much better reason than the books for Arya's view of the world.

Bran has to be important to the overall story somehow or they would have cut his character. As it is it's a pretty boring story arc (better in the books initially but about here now) and the wight scene took my wife completely out of the show. I tend to agree that it felt hoaky and a little silly. Especially after last episode and Stannis's arrival.

Dany is starting to slip, I hope they keep her character strong and don't go the book route with her.

Overall I'm happy with the direction the show is taking. The changes to the first 3 books in the series were relatively minor because they were actually good books. The changes to the next two are going to be fairly extreme because they aren't good books and to translate the story are going to need to be redone extensively.

Judging by the first 4 seasons I'm thinking the show will continue to be excellent. In fact, I'm excited to finally be to the point where I might not know what's actually going to happen finally. Plus I read the last two books each only once due to my blossoming hatred of Martin the god awful pacing of those two novels. So I really don't remember a ton about the specifics in those either

Agreed - I was enjoying the show because it was deviating from the books now and again - most adaptions of novels tend to be pretty different - for good or ill.

I am trying to look at storylines/characters that interest me if they have follow the turgid rubbish of the most recent books...............

I think setting Ramsey & Roose up the way they have has set the stage better for Stannis and Jon. Gives them much, much more to work with. I'm a little sad that we probably won't see the Manderly's since it seems we're completely off the F-the Frey's train. They haven't even mentioned the traitorus gits much this season.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure Tyrion had murder in his heart when he went to see his father. Not until he saw Shae. I think it works better as, while we the readers are deeper in Tyrion, the audience isn't hugely likely to remember a short story told to his whore 2 years ago. This makes it much more visibly personal for those who haven't read the books.

I liked the Hound and Brienne meeting. Much, much better handled than the book. Also the extra travels with the Hound give a much better reason than the books for Arya's view of the world.

Bran has to be important to the overall story somehow or they would have cut his character. As it is it's a pretty boring story arc (better in the books initially but about here now) and the wight scene took my wife completely out of the show. I tend to agree that it felt hoaky and a little silly. Especially after last episode and Stannis's arrival.

Dany is starting to slip, I hope they keep her character strong and don't go the book route with her.

Overall I'm happy with the direction the show is taking. The changes to the first 3 books in the series were relatively minor because they were actually good books. The changes to the next two are going to be fairly extreme because they aren't good books and to translate the story are going to need to be redone extensively.

Judging by the first 4 seasons I'm thinking the show will continue to be excellent. In fact, I'm excited to finally be to the point where I might not know what's actually going to happen finally. Plus I read the last two books each only once due to my blossoming hatred of Martin the god awful pacing of those two novels. So I really don't remember a ton about the specifics in those either

Agreed - I was enjoying the show because it was deviating from the books now and again - most adaptions of novels tend to be pretty different - for good or ill.

I am trying to look at storylines/characters that interest me if they have follow the turgid rubbish of the most recent books...............

Spoiler:

Dany storyline - ruins her character so he can bring in a male replacement - hate it, really hate it.
Bran becoems an Elf - dull and hate it
The Wall - not interested and don't care - killing them all would be great - let the damn thing fall on them
Tyrion - great character wasted on a travelogue across foreign lands whilst artifically avoiding meeting Dany
Jamie - nothing much happens
Stannis now just wonders about in the snow getting lost.
Mellisande burns some people but little else
Arya is a good character but he wastes that and sends her off to take no further part on the story - awesome

the show seems to be writing out Bron who is brilliant in the show
At least they still have Ramsey Bolton I guess to make life interesting

Actually I think alot happens to those characters.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think setting Ramsey & Roose up the way they have has set the stage better for Stannis and Jon. Gives them much, much more to work with. I'm a little sad that we probably won't see the Manderly's since it seems we're completely off the F-the Frey's train. They haven't even mentioned the traitorus gits much this season.

Man next season is going to be pic

 easysauce wrote:
yeah hybrid....

I mean, thats the oldest trick in the book....

"give me all your weapons"

"derp, OKAYYYY!!!"

"soooo, i notice I am the only one with weapons now..."

"derp *dies*"

I don't think this is a fair criticism. The guys who sell Dany her army don't just sell it for gold, they sell it for a DRAGON. Dragons are a pretty huge deal, I mean hell they've been extinct for hundreds of years by this point in the story. I don't think it's all that unreasonable that they'd be willing to give up so much for what is essentially a priceless relic.

@Asherian

I liked the finale overall.. but I think the only thing that bugged me was the little girl with the holy hand grenades. Mostly just because when she talked it looked like her voice was dubbed in and didn't match her lips.. it reminded me of the weird little girl from the old Dune movie.

And I guess when the old guy said Bran would be flying, he meant riding on dragons? Will Hodor be allowed to fly with him? Don't forget about Hodor!

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
yeah hybrid....

I mean, thats the oldest trick in the book....

"give me all your weapons"

"derp, OKAYYYY!!!"

"soooo, i notice I am the only one with weapons now..."

"derp *dies*"

I don't think this is a fair criticism. The guys who sell Dany her army don't just sell it for gold, they sell it for a DRAGON. Dragons are a pretty huge deal, I mean hell they've been extinct for hundreds of years by this point in the story. I don't think it's all that unreasonable that they'd be willing to give up so much for what is essentially a priceless relic.

no question that the dragons are more "valuble" or rare then the army...

its still trading away all your means to defend yourself without thinking through the consequences of that action.

its like they traded all their thousands of guys with guns in for a super special tank, without knowing how to drive the tank, or making sure it wasnt sabotauged and without thinking ahead to the other guy just using the army to steal the tank back.

 Necros wrote:
I liked the finale overall.. but I think the only thing that bugged me was the little girl with the holy hand grenades. Mostly just because when she talked it looked like her voice was dubbed in and didn't match her lips.. it reminded me of the weird little girl from the old Dune movie.

And I guess when the old guy said Bran would be flying, he meant riding on dragons? Will Hodor be allowed to fly with him? Don't forget about Hodor!

AFAIK the actress is like 9, so it wouldn't surprise me.

And no. I think it means that Bran will learn how to Warg flying creatures like birds and maybe even dragons throughout the world. In the books, the 3 Eyed Crow (3EC), Wargs into birds and controls them, and send them south to watch over Bran and others.

Soon Bran will learn how to do this too, to control creatures over vast distances. But it will never be in a physical sense. Bran will fly, yes, but he will NEVER ride a Dragon. He will instead BE a Dragon, by Warging and controlling it over a vast distance.

In the books it's implied that Bran used crows and weirdwood trees to watch over and attempt to communicate to Jon at Castle Black and Theon at Winterfell.

Bran will likely never leave this cave ever again, like Bloodraven before him. The cave is his home now.

 easysauce wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
yeah hybrid....

I mean, thats the oldest trick in the book....

"give me all your weapons"

"derp, OKAYYYY!!!"

"soooo, i notice I am the only one with weapons now..."

"derp *dies*"

I don't think this is a fair criticism. The guys who sell Dany her army don't just sell it for gold, they sell it for a DRAGON. Dragons are a pretty huge deal, I mean hell they've been extinct for hundreds of years by this point in the story. I don't think it's all that unreasonable that they'd be willing to give up so much for what is essentially a priceless relic.

no question that the dragons are more "valuble" or rare then the army...

its still trading away all your means to defend yourself without thinking through the consequences of that action.

its like they traded all their guns in for a super special tank, without knowing how to drive the tank, or making sure it wasnt sabotauged and without thinking ahead to the other guy just using the guns to steal the tank back.

They underestimated Dany and paid the price.................she caught everyone off guard - but then she had not morphed into a whiny useless pawn at that point.

They thought it was just like any other creature - they would break it to their will at their leisure.......

 Mr Morden wrote:

Spoiler:

Tyrion - great character wasted on a travelogue across foreign lands whilst artifically avoiding meeting Dany

Penny. My mom's name funnily enough.

 Mr Morden wrote:
They underestimated Dany and paid the price.................she caught everyone off guard - but then she had not morphed into a whiny useless pawn at that point.

They thought it was just like any other creature - they would break it to their will at their leisure.......

They were too stupid to live, and therefore died. Dany was no genius. Seriously, it felt like a trick from those adventure books for children.
Dany certainly did not catch me off-guard, I saw it coming miles away. I was like “They cannot be THAT stupid, they will keep some defense”. And no, they kept on going about how the Unsullied would totally have absolutely no loyalty to them anymore as soon as they are sold .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
1.

Spoiler:

No, Sandor's not dead by a long shot, he's only a figurative "death" as the remorseless b****** he was is 'dead' for all intents and purposes. Sandor will be back!

We do not know that. It does not even seem likely to me.

@Mr.Morden:

Saw this comment on Youtube.

I the books Tyrion shoots Tywin once on his penis. I'm pissed that they changed it. 

My reaction?

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm not sure Tyrion had murder in his heart when he went to see his father. Not until he saw Shae. I think it works better as, while we the readers are deeper in Tyrion, the audience isn't hugely likely to remember a short story told to his whore 2 years ago. This makes it much more visibly personal for those who haven't read the books.

Maybe. And maybe that's their approach with a lot of the theoried stuff -- that viewers aren't going to remember minor snippets from past seasons, so if for instance R + L = J, then they'll build that up more at the appropriate time.

Still, I felt like the show asks enough of its viewers that it could easily kept the Tysha story. As it was presented, his actions felt out of character IMO.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Spoiler:

By the end of Winds of Winter, she's supposed to be on her way to Westeros, and will likely have her other 2 dragonriders sorted out... I still hold out hope that they'll be Tyrion & Jorah!

I thought only those with Valyrian blood i,e, Targaryens can be dragon riders? It requires some sort of magical bond. Some Valyrians had a natural affinity with dragons, like how some Starks and other northerners/Wildlings have a natural affinity with northern wildlife (Dire Wolves, etc) and the ability to Warg into animals.

Here is my theory as to who will be one of the controllers of the dragons. Feel free to poke holes as you see fit.

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
Here is my theory as to who will be one of the controllers of the dragons. Feel free to poke holes as you see fit.

Spoiler:

What I think will happen is that Bran with learn from the three eyed raven how to expand his powers of controlling more beasties. Including a certain rouge dragon. I came to this after hearing the three eyed raven speak and say that Bran may never walk but he will fly, though could mean he takes control of a bird but at the same time Dragons are here so that seems more likely.